Umpire suspened for asking kids to speak English

[Goodieluver]

Does it state somewhere that he really does live in the U.S. or is he a migrant workers child coming to participate in activites? (All I can see is it says immigrants. It doesn't say how recently they immigrated or anything else. It could have been just a month ago!) I work with those children every summer in the migrant program (it's a school specifically designed for those children who will be there for only the summer and are traveling with their parents who follow the crop picking seasons). When they come here they try very hard to learn things including English. Sometimes it's very hard for them as most of the parents don't speak an ounce of it and the only practice the child gets is in that school for one summer.

Who is to say he isn't trying to learn the language? You can still learn a language and respond faster with your own. Sports are supposed to make you think on your feet and make decisions quickly and move on. Perhaps it was just for the best to say what was said in spanish so the game could move on. It seems very silly to make such a big deal out of such a very small thing. Pick and choose your battles and all that jazz.

Not to offend you, but you seem to be a very harsh judge of the situation Goodie, I'm wondering where the hostility is coming from.

Hm, i didnt sense myself as being hostile and i appologize if i came off as that.

Only hostility i can see being pressed is my annoyance of PC\exceptions to a rule. I for one, if i toured another country, would not expect them to have english speaking people\signs for my benefit, i accept that a different country has a different language. Now i am aware of immigrants who are here numerous years and are multi generational here and barely know english, there is no attempt to learn. Now i came from a polish neighborhood, many do speak polish from occasion but they mainly speak english, because they put forth the effort to adapt.

At my last job, a bosnian got fired because he constantly spoke in his language to other bosnians and were making fun of employees\being derogatory and whatnot, this made employee's uncomfortable because of this. Now was my work place in the right to fire him or should my work been reprimanded because of it.(he was also a shitty worker too)

I know the difficulty of learnin a new language, but there needs to be an effort to adapt, not just living here and saying "eh im an american so i dont hafta do nothin now!"

 

[AphroditeRabbit]

I was just curious why you thought that "I do what I want" was the child's attitude. I suppose hostility was the incorrect way of phrasing it 🙂

 

[alf1]

This person LIVES in america. Last i checked, the language for every state is english

hello here
One thing is to understand and be understood in a language of the country you live in. But the other thing is to be tolerant towards people that can't speak english as easy as many of you here.
As Kalamos said in Europe there are .... oh so many different languages and it doesn't mind if you speak Italian in Germany ( Schumi 😉 ) Turkish in France, Polish in Netherlands, French in whenever you want .... and so on and so on i won't mention them all. People don't tell : you must speak our language otherwise you'll get banned it's plain stupid and racist. Some are like that though , sad for them .

 

[Goodieluver]

hello here
One thing is to understand and be understood in a language of the country you live in. But the other thing is to be tolerant towards people that can't speak english as easy as many of you here.
As Kalamos said in Europe there are .... oh so many different languages and it doesn't mind if you speak Italian in Germany ( Schumi 😉 ) Turkish in France, Polish in Netherlands, French in whenever you want .... and so on and so on i won't mention them all. People don't tell : you must speak our language otherwise you'll get banned it's plain stupid and racist. Some are like that though , sad for them .

Isnt there a great deal of travel between nations there and a greater intermingling of difference people(french,german, italty, etc) Here we have 50 states that speak "one" language. Also i ask, if someone from say germany or czech rep moved to france or italy and began living there full time, its ok for his just to speak german and not really learn the italian\french language?

The issue ive been stressing is that there is more travel in the european nations to my perspective, so the learning of another language differs from that of immigrants, legal or not, coming here and living here for a long time and not learning english

 

[Kalamos]

The issue with spanish becoming the second language is, does this mean the natural citizens of the country need to learn spanish then?

This is an interesting question.
As far as I know, America's natural inhabitants were not the European traders who rebelled from England, and went on to create a new country.

After all, you are speaking English, not "American".
So you are resorting to a borrowed language.
And I think you should be more lenient with people, about language, since you don't have a natural language to begin with.

Of course this could be extremely offensive to somebody.
That's why I don't really like the turn this thread is taking.
I usually love to have the last word. Clearly, in this case, I cannot without offending somebody.


Sadly, I am afraid we cannot agree.
For three reasons.

First, see above. I don't think you, over USA, have a "natural" language.

Second, I am multi-fluent, so I don't really care about what language people use to speak or write, as long as we can get a message across and get along.

Third, sure, a country needs a common language.
Lacking one, though, two or more main languages could be employed at the same time, as long as people feel part of the same community and national entity.

Plus doesnt france have like 3-4 languages or is that belgium as you refered to(or isnt belgium considered in a way part of france, my french\european history is a bit forgotten on the subject

Sure, it belongs to France just as North America is considered a part of Mexico.

 

[chickles_:)]

Hiya! :happy:

Hmm, is it true that our Spanish speaking child was not making the effort to learn the language of the milieu in which he found himself? I'm sure, given what i understand of U.S. school systems that is unlikely.
But given the comments in this thread i'm wondering if it is expected that a person must be superiorly fluent before being allowed to fully participate in the activities of his and her new home.

Or put another way, the argument seems to be: "If you're going to live here then you must function so those who lived here before you came can understand you."
I may be missing something but I confess that is all I've heard presented.

If this is true it seems terribly sad and unfair to me. 🙁

I guess i feel really sad that we might be saying that the ideal of 'free speech' can include the right to use the dominant language to incite hatred of certain groups, as happens with certain supremacist organisations, but it ought never to allow people to use a minority language to enhance community fun.

Should we not be embracing a "Statue of Liberty" principle of hospitality here somewhere? How about, 'Gee, it must be hard for you having to manage day in and day out in a language you don't understand very well. Thank goodness there's a coach who can help you feel more at home by speaking your native language to you on the field.' 🙂

if i'm going to live in Belgium, i sure as heck gonna learn at least some Belgiumese.

An interesting and telling example, Big Norm, and perhaps poignant for this thread. Surely this was a slip of the keyboard in the height of passion.😉
Or perhaps you intentionally referred to Belgium to make the point that the average person really needs to pay more attention to the reality of the rest of the world and other languages.

For others who may not be aware, there is no such thing as 'Belgiumese'. Rather, thanks to a historical curiosity, Belgium has two official languages that function effectively side-by-side: Flemish and French.

Not unlike the U.S., Belgium was formed from regions in which the residents spoke different languages.

Thanks for listening. I wish you all every blessing,
Chickles🙂

 

[-Kunoke-]

Second, I am multi-fluent, so I don't really care about what language people use to speak or write, as long as we can get a message across and get along.

And THAT, everyone, is the problem at hand. We don't much care WHAT language the kid speaks. The point here is that no one but his own team could understand what he was saying, and that presented a problem to the ump. Personally, I think it was a well thought call for that reason. This is not discrimination, the ump was merely trying to keep the order of the game. It's his job. His punishment was FAR too severe, if he deserved punishment at all.

It's a matter of being considerate to the other players. In this situation, while it was said the kid did not know a lot of english, you don't really need to know much english for a game of baseball. Really people.

 

[Kalamos]

I am trying to avoid the most controversial parts of the matter, but I guess you are giving me no chance to walk away unscathed.

So... you want my opinion? This thread is about an umpire who effectively undermined a winning team's morale to the point of losing. Not about main vs secondary language.

Baseball is played with pitches, not words.
That's the point, Kunoke.

It's not about being respectful to english-speaking players - please refer to Val's posts, in this regard.
It's only a different language, not gibberish. It is not inherently offensive.

Sure, it is always useful and wise to know the local tongue.
Especially when the locals are so touchy about their own language.

Sure again, a foreign language could be used to cheat.
But that's what referees are there for.

The umpire's decision unsettled the game. The losing team complained over a trivial matter. The umpire acted beyond his call in a debatable way. The spanish-speaking team eventually lost, and they could claim it was really the umpire's fault.

So, the complainers won without glory, and the spanish-speakers could make a scene over an otherwise forgettable loss.

Where is the sport in that?
I don't know.
I dislike team sports anyway.

Don't try and show me how they should have spoken english instead of spanish in the first place.
I don't plan a visit to USA in the near future.
And that's another reason I am not coming any time sooner.

Is that enough for you, guys?
You are free to flame on.

 

[coloman]

Sounds like you and I are on opposite sides on every point Kalamos.
1, English is the major language spoken in the USA so it should have been used by EVERY player on the team in question.
2. The umpire DID NOT unsettle the game he made a ruling and it should have been obeyed.
3. The losing team DID complain over a trivial matter
4. The Spanish speaking team lost because they were outplayed on the field and it was NOT the umpires fault.
5. I LIKE team sports, in fact I played Baseball as a kid myself although I was never quite good enough to make a Little League team.
6. I play BY the rules even though I may not like all of them. It sounds to me like you think rules are made to be changed when YOU want things to go YOUR way.

I am GLAD you are NOT planning to come to the USA 'in the near future', in fact take that a step further and NEVER come to the USA. Since you dislike my country so badly stay put in yours and never come to the LAND of the BRAVE and the HOME of the FREE. Is that RUDE enough for you Kalamos, I HOPE so but I can play HARDBALL with the best of them if YOU want to go that route buddy boy.

 

[Goodieluver]

The constitution was drafted in english, not spanish or any other language. This parchment lists all of our laws and rights of the people of this nation

It was not written in spanish

Heh so very loosely i stretch that english is the national language

 

[Kalamos]

Well... I tried walking away before the thread erupted into a flame.
Looks like I was late.

Sounds like you and I are on opposite sides on every point Kalamos.

Sounds like I don't care.

1, English is the major language spoken in the USA so it should have been used by EVERY player on the team in question.

It should have been. It wasn't. Sue them and leave me alone.

2. The umpire DID NOT unsettle the game he made a ruling and it should have been obeyed.

Bad rulings can ruin a game.

4. The Spanish speaking team lost because they were outplayed on the field and it was NOT the umpires fault.

Did you attend that game?

5. I LIKE team sports, in fact I played Baseball as a kid myself although I was never quite good enough to make a Little League team.

Congrats on you.
I used to practice archery. In deserted woods.
So I could wander about without anybody chattering closeby. In any language.

6. I play BY the rules even though I may not like all of them. It sounds to me like you think rules are made to be changed when YOU want things to go YOUR way.

It sounds like nonsense.
No rule forced players to speak english. If any existed, the ump wouldn't have been suspended.

Since you dislike my country so badly stay put in yours and never come to the LAND of the BRAVE and the HOME of the FREE. Is that RUDE enough for you Kalamos, I HOPE so but I can play HARDBALL with the best of them if YOU want to go that route buddy boy.

This is laughable.
The "land of the brave, home of the free" tirade. Again.
You are free to parade your flag, and sing your anthem out loud, now.

Since you mentioned it, I dislike the *nationalistic* types, who are giving USA a really bad reputation abroad.

If you consider *this* hardball, sorry, but I am not playing along.
You are not my league, "sir".

 

[alf1]

For others who may not be aware, there is no such thing as 'Belgiumese'. Rather, thanks to a historical curiosity, Belgium has two official languages that function effectively side-by-side: Flemish and French.

Belgian language don't exists at itself that's true but the second official language is not French but Wallonese. Otherwise they speak english like everybody else 🙂

Eh must edit that one ... emrh ermh due to what has been written by JDSchmidt about Super America : as you may know many other countries battled for the independence of yours, it's a big melting country with really many nations represented, which is a big plus so it's sad to read such things as you wrote.

 

[~Samurai~]

Here are a few facts about Spanish in the United States, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_in_the_United_States

Spanish is the second most common language in the United States and is spoken natively by about 12% of the population, excluding 4.0 million native speakers in Puerto Rico.

Spanish is so widely spoken in the United States that the U.S. is generally considered the third or the fourth largest Spanish-speaking country in the world.

Spanish has a status of official language (along with English) in the state of New Mexico and in Puerto Rico, which is a self-governing unincorporated territory of the United States.

The Spanish language has been in North America since 1513. In 1565, the Spaniards founded St. Augustine, Florida, the oldest continuously occupied European city in the territory of the United States. The first reading grammar text was written in Spanish in Georgia in 1658.

 

[MistressValerie1]

This is a friendly reminder to everyone to keep it civil. The next reminder will not be as friendly 🙂

 

[nessonite1]

Missy Val's gonna open up a can-o-wuppass!

 

[coloman]

Yes, Kalamos I WILL sing my National Anthem and sing it proudly EVERY time I do. I WILL wave my flag too You are right about one thing though you and I are not in the same league. To put it in Baseball terms you are playing Single A ball and I am playing in the Majors. Remember you started all this with your remarks and it looks like you still are not finished. I hope you're not, I enjoy debating the issues and since it takes two opposite viewpoints to do that I am glad we are on opposite sides of the fence.

 

[Hungarian21]

Aint this place parenormal... 😎

Anyway, take my friends sister for example. She's foreign, yet she wont speak anything but English, even at home with her parents, who speak their first language a LOT better than English. She says she's embarrased when people stare at her or ask her to say something in her language. And she gets really pissed off when her familly dares to speak their language around people when shes near by. Her brother however, speaks both languages, and has no problem showing it to the world. So, it might be if the players are boys or girls. I dunno, maybe it can be the other way around, but this is the only example I know off... 🙄 Oh yeah, her language is German. :happy:

 

[Kalamos]

Remember you started all this with your remarks and it looks like you still are not finished.

Nonsense.
You haven't even read my posts.
You are blinded by your own patriotism.

Land of freedom?
Laughable.
I am free to speak as long as I don't dare and criticise your lifestyle and habits.

Read our posts closely, before dismissing me and other users as hate-mongers.
We kept our posts on the civil side.
Something you couldn't be bothered with.
Maybe your point was so weak you couldn't back it up without resorting to personal insults.

I hope you're not, I enjoy debating the issues and since it takes two opposite viewpoints to do that I am glad we are on opposite sides of the fence.

This is no debate.
Your viewpoint is no longer relevant.

I'll stop this shameful show now.

 

[coloman]

Fine by me Kalamos,and I did read your posts. I will stop too because this is getting old fast.

 

[Goodieluver]

Tickletheater now has an international incident brewing::gets out old circa WWI helmet out and sits in a trench::

 

[naveltkltr1350]

sits in the trench with goodie...hey bro..want some popcorn? lmao

 

[Goodieluver]

::shares tin can of pop corn:: So, what u think of this music television

 

[Hungarian21]

*sits next to navel and goodie* Got milk? 😛

 

[Goodieluver]

Its over by o'malley there(theres always an o'malley)::listens to the shooting that seems to have ended::

 

[chickles_:)]

Hiya all! :happy:
I share the gang's happiness that all has calmed down. That's great. and far be it for me to stir it up again.

But i had to come back to clarify an observation which alf mentioned in response to something i said.
Because what Alf said is JUST SO COOL!!
Oh Alf, i so wish i'd thought of this before you made your comment! 😀

Belgian language don't exists at itself that's true but the second official language is not French but Wallonese

Actually, having lived and worked in the "Waloon" region of Belgium, it is true that the language spoken there is not precisely the same as that endorsed by the Academie Francaise (the body which acts as umpire 😛 regarding "correct French"). But to say that the people speak "Waloonese" and not "French" would be rather like saying the people in the U.S. speak "American" and not "English" or that the people of Latin America speak "Latino" and not "Spanish".

Hmm, kind puts a whole new Twilight Zone spin on the entire discussion - don't you think? :tounge:

Many blessings,