what happened to The Golden Rule

[tkl-pen]

Good grief, I say - people should watch and buy what they like and simply avoid the rest - and leave the personal stuff out of it - they don't know Tommy, Skelyrate, me or anyone else - so they shouldn't criticize or comment on anything personal. I buy my groceries at the Superstore - I buy only those things I want and leave the rest - and I have nothing to say about the manager, the staff or their families. Remember Tickle Teacher in Southeast Asia and how these assholes badgered that producer until he was gone. Recently, Doominicanes started out on this forum and left quickly with these assorted yokels badgering them. Tommy, please stick with it - I love a lot of your work and your clips (no, not all, because there are so many different things in them) - and leave these idiots on their various soapboxes.

 

[Hobobeard]

Just my say on the personal attack to Skel, he is my favorite producers for, among other reasons, his size. I like heavier set men and he provides that in his videos. To everyone their own.

 

[Inverse]

Good grief, I say - people should watch and buy what they like and simply avoid the rest - and leave the personal stuff out of it - they don't know Tommy, Skelyrate, me or anyone else - so they shouldn't criticize or comment on anything personal. I buy my groceries at the Superstore - I buy only those things I want and leave the rest - and I have nothing to say about the manager, the staff or their families. Remember Tickle Teacher in Southeast Asia and how these assholes badgered that producer until he was gone. Recently, Doominicanes started out on this forum and left quickly with these assorted yokels badgering them. Tommy, please stick with it - I love a lot of your work and your clips (no, not all, because there are so many different things in them) - and leave these idiots on their various soapboxes.

There are good mods on this forum, but a simple look at the admin count per 1000 users indicates perhaps too few. This is definitely not a light forum. Stuff like what you're saying happened, should have never. 🙁

 

[Babbles]

I'm not repeating myself again, it's all there in clear English.

Skelyrata ---
Then thank you very much for the disclaimers, I never got that far since you addressed the issue in the threads themselves.

Otherwise you really said much the same as I did.

tkl-pen --- My apologies for the language & the assumptions, edited out ----

Making fun of appearances, personal attacks, obviously ridiculous. Making personal attacks or malicious references to someone's family WOULD be even MORE abominable except ---- as I clarified on page one --- That didn't happen.

I was referring to THE OP'S PERSPECTIVE as the father of a future adult daughter, no less,
(since he mentioned it in another COMPLAINT thread as a factor influencing his merit here).
I made a logical extension of his statement in that context --- after he was snarky with me for replying to a troll who's been critical of him, ironically ---

SIMPLY stating that he should appreciate those who stand up for women/models, whoever, as such.
NOT referring to his daughter, but HIM, and his PERSPECTIVE ---- that should've been made clear because there was NO attack on his family, certainly not from me.

People seriously cannot (censored) read or comprehend simple English,
and I am SO tired of being misquoted and attacked for bogus statements I never made.

As I also wrote in clear English, I understood then that even a referral to his PERSPECTIVE as a father was too much and that's fine, but

IN NO WAY did or would I "attack" anyone's family.

THAT was a bogus complaint --- in several ways --- which was blown WAY beyond what was actually said, conveniently.
THAT did not belong in this thread.

And as far as SouthEast Asia, I heard they were brutal and there's been a lot of debate about that. If the guy did in fact take advantage of women or make it look like he was selling TRUE CRIME rather than an extreme fantasy ---- which most of us who protest seemingly real abuse have NO problem with ---- then good riddance.
An exit interview or a disclaimer won't kill these jerks.

That also, however, belongs in another thread

I've been accused of "soapboxing," but I just see a lot of frustrated barbarians mixed in with the gentlemen, who unfortunately get pissed off and start slinging insults at anyone who interferes with their sexual gratification --- or their profit margin --- to the slightest extent,
whether that's regarding a simple, responsible disclaimer or a heavyset male Ler.

Since there are some of us here who like to see M/F or F/M I'm grateful there are some producers who offer all of that. And if I don't like something I normally do move on without comment, unless the advertising itself seems to beg for it.

 

[Jagermeistered]

I can't believe ALL the great producers of our fetish for tickling has to go thru this idiocy by ignorant and self-absorbed jackasses.

I love freedom of speech, until you attack the right of privacy. Even though many producers expose their own private interest, and publish for show. Should give no right to pass judgement upon them and their business/personal or friends/models: choices of their production and publishing.

Nobody presses you too purchase or view their material. That's why this is called a big word, and is a big word: forum.

If you wanna pass judgement: Start with yourself first!!! If your ego wins, and not respect for the other poster! Please Stop Typing!!!!!!

 

[Jagermeistered]

Criticize the work, yes! But, not the individual supplying the art!

 

[Babbles]

Criticize the work, yes! But, not the individual supplying the art!

With regard to personal appearances, yes. But the "individual supplying the art" is also responsible for it.

 

[solescratcher99]

Word Salads

WARNING: I do not mean to go off topic. I think there is a wider social context here that cannot be fit into one thread, yet must be addressed. Also, I was a philosophy and psychology major, so the first paragraph will be a bit verbose. If you are looking for my personal experience, please read the second paragraph.

Most of the members I am concerned about are the salad tossers. They conflate one word with another and try to hook you into a petty semantics game. For example, the idea that fantasy is NOT the same thing as reality is met with an obsessive epistemological critique about the use of the word "fantasy" and "reality"; in however an indirect manner. Whether its saying that skey is "raping" models or that Zen's tickling is "fake", they use word salads to try and confuse the common experience of what "rape" and "fake" actually mean. Wthin the context of erotica, you'd expect that these words would actually refer to a reality that is based in reality... but no. Now we have to have a conversation about meta-communication with individuals who have very little physical experience in dealing with human beings.

As for my personal experiences with adult production... I wouldn't do it. Not because I think its a "disgusting" profession or any of that non-sense. Rather, its because the last time I tried to get into the business I received various comments making pejorative remarks about a model (who was my ex-girlfriend and a close friend) and I wouldn't want to expose anyone I cared about to such abusive remarks.

Many of the women I know are already hesitant about doing such projects and engaging in alternative sexual experiences because their not familiar with it. This is natural. BUT... it further hinders them from exploring alternative avenues when someone tries to punish them for it by making snide, judgmental and pathologizing remarks. Especially with the ridiculous amount of psuedo-psychology the salad tossers throw out on almost a daily basis.

Its easy to spot out people who are directly insulting a model or a producer, but its not so easy to spot out the implicit insults, emotional abuse and pathologizing that effects customers, producers and models alike.

EDIT: Tommy, there was so much in your post I agree with. After 8 pages, I think people should go back and read the original post again before they comment.

 

[Jagermeistered]

With regard to personal appearances, yes. But the "individual supplying the art" is also responsible for it.

Please expand. Yes, they deserve credit, of course! But, if they are ugly, fat, etc... Should that be pointed out by the viewer with no common decency?

 

[Babbles]

Please expand. Yes, they deserve credit, of course! But, if they are ugly, fat, etc... Should that be pointed out by the viewer with no common decency?

Of course not. I've pointed that out here, and in the very threads in question. There I agree with you.
There seems to be a lot of jealousy & petty cruelty.

There clearly shouldn't be real cruelty on either side of the camera, and that's no "word salad."
My remarks to that effect were erased since they were also not technically on topic.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Of course not. I've pointed that out here, and in the very threads in question. There I agree with you.
There seems to be a lot of jealousy & petty cruelty.

There clearly shouldn't be real cruelty on either side of the camera, and that's no "word salad."
My remarks to that effect were erased since they were also not technically on topic.

Understand.

 

[TMJ Productions]

Any group of people has 2 sub sets:
1. Those happy, content, and living a fun life
&
2. Those who are miserable, have low self worth, and can only deal with this by brining others down to their level.

Even in this tread there are those adding little jabs at people or at producers.

Mostly the people who post negitive words are simply, JEALOUS!

My Favorite bumper sticker: Mean People Suck

They aren't going anywhere though and they can be found in all walks of life.

I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone but to promote the ideas:

Be happy!
Don't let anyone take away from the joy of life!

Let's spread love and not worry about the one's spreading hate!

 

[Jagermeistered]

Standing side by side with clip producers though. Their should be cruelty! They give out email addressess, and they choose not too share the nonsense they are confronted with other 'consumers'. They aren't consumers, but live in a bubble of their own little decadence.

This producer creates something against my own personal fantasies and morality. "I will not abuse them completely here(to please the moderators), but will send them hate mail."

This is why producers are pissed...

They share all of our same passion(for tickling), but when they want to experiment with different passions(of their own) - they are castrated!! Mostly by one-track minded fools.

To be a producer, director, model, etc(is too be full of passion and entrepreneurship!!)

That is their deliverance! I don't ever want too put a single person on the spot, and question their individuality!

I am guessing the same thing is felt by all the producers.

Moral of this post is Respect, and unfortunately - some have lost that human side of them!

 

[rhiannon]

My personal opinion about this whole thing is the following: if you don't like the appearance of the people in the clip, don't buy the clip! Nobody forces you to! Just go into the next clipstore and buy a clip in which you like the physical appearance of the people in it!

There is no need to write a mean comment about how shitty you think the people look. That would be like going to a Chinese restaurant, sitting down and then telling the waiter how much you hate Chinese food! Just go to the freaking Italian place around the corner already!!

 

[herts tickler]

My personal opinion about this whole thing is the following: if you don't like the appearance of the people in the clip, don't buy the clip! Nobody forces you to! Just go into the next clipstore and buy a clip in which you like the physical appearance of the people in it!

There is no need to write a mean comment about how shitty you think the people look. That would be like going to a Chinese restaurant, sitting down and then telling the waiter how much you hate Chinese food! Just go to the freaking Italian place around the corner already!!

exactly! theres no need for a thread this big over spaghetti....

 

[Jagermeistered]

exactly! theres no need for a thread this big over spaghetti....

Don't forget the meatballs, because that sounds good for dinner tonight... Thank you!

 

[jmsdarke]

Many moons ago (around 2003-2004), someone responded to one of my early video clip posts of me tickling Kara and said something to the effect that "seeing a ni***r tickling a white woman made him want to puke". By that point in my life I had finally gotten past the urge to immediately put the offender on the floor with swift physical justice while sipping the nectar of his blood. I had already come to understand that this was his personal display of his perpetual commitment to mad sadness.

These days, I personally see less racial vitriole sent my way but always know it's there, not necessarily towards me, but that some poor souls trap themselves in such limited thought.

To their credit, the TMF mods nuked the errant post and provided an undeniable rapid exit for the offendor.

For the thankless task they do, I'm pretty happy all of these years for how our mods operate. If an when they make a percieved error, I say they're human and allowed.

JD

 

[Kunzite]

Tommy, I just want to say that I am and always have been an enormous fan of your work, but I also understand exactly what you mean when you say that trolls can really ruin a community. When I first ventured onto the internet so many years ago, one of the first boards I frequented was an erotic fiction site which was totally unmoderated. The trolls and flamers completely drove all the creative people off the board with their incessant negativity. I've always felt that the tickling community as a whole has been thankfully absent of this sort of behavior, but it's true: it still exists. But please don't let this turn you off: the silent majority still loves you more than you can know. Your contributions to the TMF have been absolutely breathtaking in their quality and frequency, and to ever lose you would be a loss beyond words. We love you, even if we don't say it enough 🙂

 

[tkl-pen]

Babbles, I had no idea it was you they were talking about - I thought it was some guy or number of guys - and I'm not even sure, judging by the language, that it was you who responded to my post even though it was in your name. I always thought of you as a lady but that is not the language of a lady. And, beyond that, these models are adult women and they do not need to be defended by you or anyone else - if someone commits a criminal act on them, I'm quite sure they can call the police and report it themselves.

TTSEA, incidentally, was not brutal but it was intense - I knew the producer and attended several of his shoots - I know what went on and how it was done - it was no different from a lot of American producers but a number of these yokels got onto it because it was produced in the Philippines and the models might not have received American pay rates. The constant bitching and nattering by a few people on this forum drove him away and removed a source of extra income from the girls who were and who might have been in his clips.

 

[Babbles]

tkl-pen

You're right, I overreacted (having nothing to do with my gender) so I apologize for the assumption & the language, it did occur to me afterward you may not have known,

but I was/am so disgusted with invented accusations, misquotes & all that that I reacted inappropriately to you -- Unfortunately, however,
everything I wrote was accurate, at least with regard to me and my statements (and how they were TOTALLY misrepresented here, and after they were doubly blown out of proportion by another rude poster on the first page, I was overly sensitive about it. Not that that excused the language).

And models may be "grown women," but often --- just barely, and that minimum age doesn't mean they're not really taken advantage of. Ironically all I had done in the thread in question is post a half-joking reply towards another poster, not a serious "defense" though I didn't know how else to refer to it. The rest is what you saw, only I had posted *politely and still got slammed every which way for it.

With regard to SouthEast Asia, that had a reputation for being (call it "intense," but from what I heard that was a tame summary). I didn't see the clips and I don't remember commenting upon them, but if it looked like real abuse I can understand why it caused a problem.
If the producer wasn't taking advantage of third world women, he could've easily made that clear without destroying the fantasy --- any movie is categorized, even in Blockbuster, and "fantasy" should be labelled as such, that shouldn't be too much to ask --

I won't continue with that tangent, though, except to say if you *knew the guy was using safewords (?) and not tricking the women into (twice the length of time, or into intense tickling when they signed a contract for generic tickling, not knowing what to expect like most vanilla people....) perhaps you could've spoken up? --- as the producer really should have.... Either way, it was his fault he wasn't responsible with marketing, not yours.

 

[Cave In]

People are always going to hate, its just the way of things these days. It's sad that they feel the need to pick on the very people who are the lifeblood of this community.

These days we are spoilt for choice with tickling media, catering to many tastes. I for example aren't a fan of skyletra's clips. Does that mean I go flaming him for it not being to my tastes? No, I just look elsewhere, like a reasonable person.

 

[tkl-pen]

tkl-pen
I won't continue with that tangent, though, except to say if you *knew the guy was using safewords (?) and not tricking the women into (twice the length of time, or into intense tickling when they signed a contract for generic tickling, not knowing what to expect like most vanilla people....) perhaps you could've spoken up? --- as the producer really should have.... Either way, it was his fault he wasn't responsible with marketing, not yours.

Hi Babbles, thankyou, and perhaps I shouldn't have even posted anything here. I do recall about TTSEA that the producer and I both explained it at length on this forum but the naysayers simply kept at him relentlessly no matter what was said. His was the only shoot that I ever attended outside of the Japanese ones in which I took part. He would film groups of three or four women at a time, take them to dinner first and explain in detail what was going to be done and for how long, contracts were signed, payments equal to about three months regular pay in that country was agreed upon and shooting always took place in a hotel with at least two other women off camera in the room. I was actually quite impressed - those women seemed a lot safer to me than a girl I take into a room at a dungeon where it's just her and me. Now, I can hardly even do that - I have arthritis in a hip and walk in pain most of the time.

 

[melancholy_chic]

Well my two cents is that you are wrong. There is a clear linkage between violent media in society (forgetting about tickle media for the moment) and the rise of violence in the streets and home. Intelligent balanced people like you and me, may see it merely as an entertainment. Less balanced people may be able to use such material as an alternative outlet, to acting on violent impulses within themselves. However for a very small minority (and a small minority can do a lot of damage), violent material gives them a form of legitimacy (as well as ideas) to carry out such acts.


Although there is a correlation between violent acts and violent media, there is no study that has yet to determine causation. Do violent media cause violent acts or do violent people prefer to watch violent media?

 

[evilwomanhehe]

A large part of our community should be finding things we like and not ridicule, belittle, criticize, and slam the tickling producers. If you don't like, say, nylon tickling--move on. If you don't like f/m--move on. If you don't like plot-themed tickling scenes--move on. There are a TON of people who are into a LOT of different scenarios--don't get up the friggin' nerve and start slamming the producer just because you aren't watching what you like. Skelyrata has been asking some random questions lately because he has been slammed for no reason whatsoever--so that he could get a feel of what you guys like and want in a vid--and what some of you guys find offensive. Tommy has done the same thing in the past--to see what the tickling community wants/likes.

Come on guys--help out our tickle producers. Give them pointers--but don't put down and slam them. It's a lot of hard work trying to compose a tickling vid.

And me? Especially? I LOVE when a tickling producer, who is 90% 'ler--gets a taste of his own medicine from time to time and gets the holy hell tickled out of him. 🙂 hehe

~Victoria

 

[Mitchell]

I've been a member of this forum for over eight years. To be honest, this is one of the longer, and uglier, threads, that I've seen in a long time. I have an observation:

My experience has been that while there is a Golden Rule, many times, such is subjective, and determined by judgement calls.

I've had times during my years here where I've started threads, that quickly turned ugly, for whatever reason. Certain times, the threads have been clamped down on, and closed very quickly. Once or twice, however, when I complained, I received a reply from the staff of : "You started this mess. You're just going to have to ride it out until it burns itself out". Sometimes, the thread had a hundred, or two hundred replies, most of which were little more than pro Mitch, and anti Mitch, people, debating the thread. Finally, after a few days.. or a week. the thread went to another page, and died out.

As to how that relates to this thread... Such is why Tommy's question to me.. is extremely valid, but very difficult to answer.. or even mod in. I have a strong feeling that under other circumstances, this thread would have had lots of mods warnings, or maybe even been closed, long ago. My sense is.. and correct me if I'm wrong, that so many people have involved themselves in this thread.. that this may be one that is just going to be allowed to be debated, until it burns itself out.. unless it gets unexpectedly ugly, and someone decides to close it.

Personally, I think that "What happened to the Golden Rule" is too wide open a topic for a thread of this nature. Had I started a thread like this, the topic of the thread would have been, specifically, something like: "I'm a producer, who feels X way about such, and I feel my work has been attacked, devalued, defamed, etc, etc". This way.. the topic is narrowed down to one which can be debated on topic, and a specific area, instead of "What happened to the Golden Rule". For example, I've gotten into debates in the P and R forum through the years, and had questions about the Golden Rule, and received replies of "Oh, we allow a lot more latitude in the P and R then other areas of the forum, due to the nature of the topic".

My intent is in no way to pour gasoline on the fire of a thread which needs none to be poured on it. I'm just trying, to put into perspective, and bring some understanding, to what I think has become a thread that is probably far longer, and testier, then probably was ever intended.

Mitch