What's the Big Effin' Deal?

[Soda83pop]

Yea...agreed.

And again, I probably had the extra large magnifying glass out...but thats the first thing I noticed.

<shrug>

 

[Tamia78]

Nobody's getting mad here, Sprite, all I was asking for is opinions, and I'm getting them. This is exactly why I made the thread. I honestly want to know. As for myself, I don't see why there is such a deal over it, but I understand where the opinions of those who do not want to see the movie are coming from.

--T

 

[Fire_Sprite]

Nobody's getting mad here, Sprite, all I was asking for is opinions, and I'm getting them. This is exactly why I made the thread. I honestly want to know. As for myself, I don't see why there is such a deal over it, but I understand where the opinions of those who do not want to see the movie are coming from.

--T

My bad. When I say "everyone" I mean the people in the county who are birthing this controversy. I agree nobody in the thread is really that agitated except for me at those people.

 

[Soda83pop]

And before the Family Guy card gets played (because I can already see that card coming out)....

...I think the biggest reason this is getting some backlash is that the movie is geared towards children and the racial overtones are more implied racism than the blatant, over-the-top racist remark in a family guy, or a chris rock standup routine geared for adults. Because presumably (and I do mean PRESUMABLY) adults are able to tell the difference.

 

[Fire_Sprite]

And before the Family Guy card gets played (because I can already see that card coming out)....

...I think the biggest reason this is getting some backlash is that the movie is geared towards children and the racial overtones are more implied racism than the blatant, over-the-top racist remark in a family guy, or a chris rock standup routine geared for adults. Because presumably (and I do mean PRESUMABLY) adults are able to tell the difference.

Well in my experience children don't pick up on anything "implied." I know when I watched Dumbo as a kid I had no clue those crows were supposed to be black people or that an american tail starred a bunch of jewish mice.

Yeah, you can argue these stereotypes will ingrain themselves in children's heads so they'll grow up with prejudiced ideals. But I highly doubt they'll connect the dots until they're old enough to recognize something that should be ignored. And all this would only apply if the racial undertones were intended in the first place. Since these characteristics represent the region rather than the race, children would never perceive any racism unless parents were stupid enough to create a media shitstorm that pointed it out to them. D'OY!!


Also, what's the family guy card? I'm guessing the show recently had some controversy related to this.

 

[BellaRisa]

My 3 cents...

I have no issue with the trailer and my daughters will be seeing the movie. Beautiful brown princess, something my interracial baby girls rarely get to see, and what seems like it will be a fun storyline? We're there. I had no more problem with the weird little cajun bug than I did with that nut Mater the tow truck in Cars that Larry the Cable Guy portrayed or the crazy fish in the tank in Finding Nemo, and the way we're raising them I highly doubt my girls will carry those mildly comic images into judging humans.

The Big Effin' Deal is lost on me too, Tamia

PS if not wanting to kiss a frog on the lips makes a girl a bitch...damn.

 

[Tamia78]

I just thought she didn't wanna kiss the frog because frogs are.....well, icky!

There, I said it.

--T

 

[Redmage]

I think this may be another example of why black parents try to ban Huckleberry Finn for its "racist language," even though A) that's just how people talked then, and B) it's one of the bitterest condemnations of racism ever written.

 

[Soda83pop]

I agree Bella...I wouldnt kiss a frog for anything...except that cool buzz that was promised to me in high school 😉...

Tamia...is there any links we could get to see what is being said. Honestly, I didnt even know about the movie until today.

 

[Tamia78]

I'm not sure if any of these are official.....

Well, here's one:

http://hollywood-animated-films.suite101.com/article.cfm/frog_princess_damage_control

 

[Tamia78]

I think this may be another example of why black parents try to ban Huckleberry Finn for its "racist language," even though A) that's just how people talked then, and B) it's one of the bitterest condemnations of racism ever written.

Heya Red!

I guess I have mixed feelings about that one. I definitely see why they would want to ban it, if only because of the language. What parent would want their kids constantly reading the N-word? On the other hand, it's a book about our history and culture, and we SHOULD want to read Twain's books. This is where we came from!

--T

 

[Cy/MiG]

I can see a little about the bug, but people had the same complaints about Jar-Jar Binks in Star Wars.

--T

I think that says it all. If Jar-Jar can be on the big screen (a shady representation at best), why not a disney character? I see nothing [overly] wrong with the trailer. People need to stop looking too deeply into these things.

 

[Redmage]

Heya Red!

I guess I have mixed feelings about that one. I definitely see why they would want to ban it, if only because of the language. What parent would want their kids constantly reading the N-word?

I don't get that, I'm afraid. The book was written in the 19th century, and it was depicting the speech of lower-class characters in 19th-century Missouri. That's simply how they talked. That's like taking the microfilm copies of newspaper archives out of Southern libraries so black students won't see editorials defending slavery or newspaper announcements of slave auctions.

Basically, it's trying to censor history. That's evil, in my book - one of the few cases in which I really think the use of that word is appropriate.

And it's not necessary. A concerned parent can easily explain to children that this is how people talked in that time and place. They can use it as an opportunity to show the kids what they're fighting against in the civil rights movement. It's not doing the kids any kind of favor to "protect" them from the facts of history.

Plus, for crying out loud, Twain hated slavery. Huckleberry Finn is a diatribe against slavery. He's on their side!

 

[Oddjob0226]

Geez. I don't remember anyone going apeshit over Mulan having narrower eyes or the toothless redneck tow truck in Cars. People are way to sensitive about this.

There were some Asians who were bugged that the character look of Poccahauntas was based physically on an Asian model rather than an American Indian and looked gorgeous (in that eye of the beholder kind of way), while Mulan was Chinese but looked kind of funny and ungorgeous.



Oh, right, so I was the only one reading the magazine "Giant Robot" back then?



But that tootheless redneck tow truck- that was pure documentary from what I've seen 'round these parts.

 

[Oddjob0226]

And I could see where some black women would have found the princess kissing the frog everywhere but where she is supposed to as a way to portray the "bitch" stigma that somehow is attached to any black woman who remotely appears to have her own mind ("You know, I dont recall in the book I HAD to kiss you on the lips").

Is that really a stigma that black women worry about? For real? I swear, when I saw Spike Lee's "School Daze" I really couldn't get it about the women in the beauty salon scene going on about straight hair vs. curly hair and how one was more "black" than the other - and therefore good, but others saw the opposite being more "black" than the other, and therefore something bad. Or more white, along those lines. I kept thinking: you know what ladies, the Exhaulted Grand Dragon doesn't really give a flip about what kind of flip you have. Quit fighting.

If you check out plenty of femisist blogs out there ( So Sioux Me comes to mind) there lots of females that think there aren't enough Disney-type princesses in "bitch" mode.... meaning that they think and act on their own rather than waiting for the prince.

Black women are truly worried about that in cartoons? Or, they are actually waiting for Prince, like, the entertainer? Purple Rain? Rainbow Bridge?

Women are already hard enough to figure out before they start splitting up even further into little estro-tribes. Not helpful, sisters.

I'm seeing the movie.

 

[Musicroxmysox]

To be a complete bitch, if there are people out there who don't like the idea then don't watch the movie.

I totally agree that I don't see what the big deal is. In fact I'm excited because it looks better then a lot of the other crap Disney has produced in recent years (hint hint tweenagers.)

 

[P[a]pi]

Yeah, I don't have a prob with the trailer/movie, but the bug's voice is gonna piss some black people off. I don't understand why disney chose that over-the-top country voice. I think that was stupid on their part, but I also think it's stupid that they made a "black" fairy tale movie in general, just cus they should have known that some black people would just rip it to shreds. It's just a big risk.

Also, they should have known that they had to make the black chick have a black name. I mean if you're gonna do it, ya gotta do it all the way.

However, I like it that they drew Tiana's lips bigger. My gf is black, has bigs lips, and I love it.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

Damn, she is hot!! (for a cartoon...😛)

In my opinion, I think people are reading way too much into these characters. I would watch this movie because it has a good story line. To say that this represents the black community is kind of foolish thinking if you ask me. Take Cinderella for instance. Does this mean that every blond white women are destined to be maids or that that every old white women is a mean or a witch. That white red heads are stupid. Every white man looks like Prince Charming. If the character has big lips or a no teeth..then that is part of the character's look and speech. Why is everyone expecting to represent an entire race? Certainly Belle isn't a representation of all white women...Mulan isn't a representation of all asians...Pocahontas isn't a representation of all Natives. Like everyone in our world. Everyone is an individual and so are these characters.

It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[kis123]

Kis, you know I definitely wanted your opinion, Sis!

And it really does come down to this being a movie that our kids are going to see. The Peter Pan reference was a great example. I remember watching it as a kid, and I guess that's just what I thought Native Americans should sound like. Sad. And we grow up with this stuff? I had a different veiw of Black people represented in cartoons and movies because I am one, and my family doesn't act like that.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with the way Princess Tiana is depicted. She is a beautiful black woman, and isn't this what we want our children to see? I don't think children will even pick up on the bug's accent, if only just to mimic it because its funny. It's WE AS ADULTS who really have the issues here. So, should Disney cater to a bunch of adults, or should they just make the movie to the audience it is intended for..............Kids?

What are the other racial issues you see? This is exactly the reason I started this thread. I really don't understand what the issues are.

Keep it comin, everyone!

--T

Tamia, I think this is where our age differences come into play. Even as a child, I was offended by the images of blacks in cartoons and the industry in general. I hate the "amos and andy" or "steppinfechit" crap; I just feel this is another way to dumb us down and make us look ignorant on film. Why would they even do this? I suspect (no solid proof) that this is what Disney thinks blacks can easily relate to; IMPO-this is hogwash!

I was a young child when Dr King was assassinated; I saw the grief on my mother's face and the neighborhood just never seemed the same. So when I see and hear stuff like this, it makes me feel like we've been set back about 50years! That character doesn't truly represent Black Americans at all; outside the exaggerated lips, she looks Euro painted brown to me.

In your response to my post, you said you don't talk like that; guess what? No one in my family, friends, or acquaintences speaks that way either. My step famiy have little post high school education; you'd never know that by holding dialogue with them, so I don't know where this stuff comes from sometimes! I've always hated the "accent" thing because unless you are from certain parts of the US, the "accent" (and you know what I'm talking about) is a sign of being uneducated and ignorant. If I start on the ebonics thing, I'd never stop; it's not a language, it's ignorant-speak and not even my autistic son speaks that way. If he can speak intelligently in a tongue that doesn't literally make my flesh crawl, so can the rest of us; if not, the stigma that fuels the prejudice and racism will never end.

I know folks think I'm picking this apart, and they might be right. But I'd never take my kids to a movie that looks and sounds like this. Disney can do far better than this IMO!

 

[kis123]

A movie is coming out? It's controversial?? Oh...my....god!!! 🙄

I don't think there has been a movie yet that has not had some kind of controversy to it. All I'm going to say is:

More controversy a film causes = more hype = more $$$

You're absolutely right!!!

 

[kis123]

I agree with KIS on some of the issues she saw. I thought some of it (most of it, actually) was way over the top. Im admittedly overly sensitive to inferred racism, much less blatant racism, which is why I tend to avoid these threads all together. And I could see where some black women would have found the princess kissing the frog everywhere but where she is supposed to as a way to portray the "bitch" stigma that somehow is attached to any black woman who remotely appears to have her own mind ("You know, I dont recall in the book I HAD to kiss you on the lips"). Which believe it or not, I think that would stir up more shit than anyone portraying a black male as stupid (ie the bug) since its been going for so long most people are numb to it and expect it.

I wont be seeing it. But I wouldnt have been seeing it anyway. And this is where I dont agree with KIS.

The movie will make money, because its a cartoon. The kids will want to see it, and the parents will take them. They will buy the DVD. Disney wont feel it.

Just in the name of FYI, my "baby" is almost 19, so I won't be taking anyone to see the movie either!

And thanks for your support!

 

[Sandrock74]

As an artist and speaking only in regards to the look of the princess, I don't think she has "big" lips at all. When drawing in an animated or comic book style, you are taught that female characters (regardless of color) are to have exagerated lips, bigger eyes and longer legs than male characters. Otherwise, it is felt they can be confused with boy characters in smaller images.

I don't see any problems with her look.

 

[Tamia78]

I think Kis is right, it may just be an age-difference issue. Yeah, she's got a little accent, but the actress (who is black and beautiful, by the way) playing her has an accent. Otherwise she sounds like me. I'm sure there would be MORE scandalous controversy if Tiana was voiced by a white woman.
And why are we assuming the "steppenfetchit" firefly represents a black person? I've talked to people from Louisiana.......and they DO sound like that. Some of them, black and white alike. So, we assume that any character who has no teeth and talks unintelligebly respresents black people automatically? That's reaching to me.

Kis, you know I love ya, but I think I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

--T

 

[Soda83pop]

Somewhat important to read**

(after reading the link, provided by Tamia)

Absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, discussed in this thread up to this point has to do with the sources of controversy surrounding the movie. I think it would be wise for us all to read the blog, and re assess possibly where we stand. Because what people are complaining about has nothing to do with lips or attitudes. The trailer we watched doesnt portray what the shitstorm is about.

And for the record, I think its a shame that one of the reasons people are pissed is because the prince turns out to be white (read the article). Thats no different then if someone white was pissed the princess was black.

 

[Tamia78]

No, it does have some bearing to what we're debating about, because that's what some people are saying (about the big lips, the way the characters talk, stuff like that), but it is something more, and on a different scale. I have read a few more newsblogs about it, and there are those saying that the significance of New Orleans (extremely devastating for black people) is like a slap in the face with the making of this movie. Do people really think that the creators in the Disney studios sit back and are like......"Okay, how the fuck can we offend every race and ethnicity of people in THIS movie?" I find that really hard to believe. I'm not saying that there isn't racism, but to blatanly put every black stereotype in a movie just to prove a point and piss people off? They might as well have Tiana eating some watermelon and have a bucket of chicken in her hand. Hey, maybe they will, since all Disney is trying to do it piss black people off, why not go over the deep end and just do it that way? You think people might stop complaining?

--T