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When is the line crossed to ''cheating'' if a person is married or in commited ...

FlockOfSeagulls

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relationship?

I caught part a show last night where they had private investigators ''tail'' one person either married or in a commited relationship. When the guy was caught by his fiance and investigators his response was basically that :

A. They were not yet married
B. He hadn`t had sex with the other lady

My question is where is the line in your opinion? Does it have to involve S E X to be considered cheating? Or does seeing someone else without your partners knowledge cheating just the same ?


I am pretty ''old -fashioned '' and conservative when it comes to my views on this subject but was curious to see what others thought on this moral dilema.
 
It doesn't seem like a hard question to me. Cheating is a betrayal of trust in a relationship. It's the same whether you're married or not, as long as you and your partner have certain mutually agreed expectations of each other. If you're doing anything that you wouldn't want your partner to find out as a result of these expectations, then you're violating that trust.
 
I agree with Redmage; if you're doing something with another person that your partner doesn't know about- and you don't want them to know about- then I would consider that cheating, even if all you're doing is going to a movie together.

You gotta wonder why your partner wouldn't just tell you "Hey, I'm going with Sue/Gary to the movies tonight, 'kay?" If they have to sneak around...
 
My wife is not into my tickling bondage fetish at all and she thinks that I'm 'sick' because of it - at the same time, realizing that it's a part of me, like a sexual orientation, she has no problem with me going to a professional dungeon with female subs, local fetish groups and events with female subs, or meeting a female sub for a tickling session - she knows I'll be coming home to her and that the needs she is unable to satisfy will be met - that is the reason I don't ask for nudity or sex with a tickling sub - although I will admit that topless, especially if I can remove the top, enhances the experience for me.

In another vein, Redmage is one of the wisest, most intelligent people I have ever come upon - and I work with the local chapter president of Mensa - I don't share the same views and opinions a lot of the time but I would be greatly honored to meet him and spend a little time with him one day - just call me 'grasshopper'.
 
I agree that cheating is " doing something with another person that your partner doesn't know about and you don't want them to know about" I don't care if you're dating or married, not telling your partner about your involvment with someone else constitutes cheating.

I agree completely with your sentiments above. If you are doing something your better half doesn`t know about then you have definately crossed that line .
 
By most of your definitions, it seems like you regard anything one does that one doesn't want one's significant other to find out about, it's cheating. Last week I spent a day watching television and didn't want my wife to know this. By your definition, this is cheating. I don't regard it so.

I just don't buy into the idea that when you get married or in a committed relationship, you get to control each other to a point where you're both required to disclose everything. I love my wife, and I don't pursue relationships with other women. Yet there are many things I do that I don't want her to know about. I've no doubt she does things she'd rather I not know. And I'm perfectly okay with that. I don't own her and she doesn't own me. We respect each other's personal space.

I seem to have a different definition of trust than most. To me trust isn't an obligation to full disclosure. It's a commitment of continued support toward one's partner. It's the assurance that the other will be there for you and support you, and won't abandon you for somebody else.
 
By most of your definitions, it seems like you regard anything one does that one doesn't want one's significant other to find out about, it's cheating. Last week I spent a day watching television and didn't want my wife to know this. By your definition, this is cheating. I don't regard it so.
It seemed clear in the context of the discussion that we were talking about activities that you might do or share with a partner other than your spouse. I guess everyone else who has posted here thought that that went without saying.

"Cheating," in that sense, is a betrayal of your partner's trust, but it doesn't follow from that that all betrayals of your partner's trust are "cheating" in that sense. And, too, there are different degrees all across the spectrum. The severity of the betrayal can be roughly measured by how hurt your partner will be to discover it, and how hard you'd try to cover it up. I'd be a bit surprised to find your wife preparing to divorce you because she caught you sneaking an afternoon of television. If you didn't want her to know about that because you know that she didn't want you to do it, then it is still a betrayal of trust, but a relatively minor one. On the other hand if you just felt like you'd wasted the afternoon and were too embarrassed to tell her, then it's probably not a betrayal at all.

I think most people participating on this thread aren't looking for loopholes or excuses, though, so the sort of thing you're talking about never even occurred to them as a "betrayal of trust" in the sense we've been discussing. There's probably not much point in pursuing this distraction any further, then.

I seem to have a different definition of trust than most. To me trust isn't an obligation to full disclosure. It's a commitment of continued support toward one's partner. It's the assurance that the other will be there for you and support you, and won't abandon you for somebody else.
That's part of it. It's bigger than that, though. Trust means a certain sort of confidence in another person - a faith that they will not do things that they know would hurt you if you learned of it. It means conveying certain expectations to them and knowing that they'll respect those expectations. The specifics of those expectations vary with each relationship, but most people know what their partners expect of them. If they find themselves doing something that they know their partner would view as a betrayal, then that's a violation of their partner's trust.

It's not a matter of "full disclosure." It's not doing something in the first place if you know full well that disclosing it would hurt your partner. In the simplest possible terms: Your partner has certain things that he or she trusts you not to do. You probably know what those things are. If you do them anyway, then you're betraying your partner's trust.
 
Redmage, I appreciate you expounding on the definition. I admit, I do have a tendancy toward taking things a little too legally and literally, and I suspect that can get irritating. I think I agree mostly with what you say, and I think we can both agree that there's at least some margin of discrepancy.

For example, a friend of mine from several years ago had a very jealous wife. Just going to lunch with one of his many female co-workers was considered by his wife to be a breach in trust. He finally got tired of all her fussing and just quit telling her about it. He never had any romantic liaisons of any kind with these women, and only on rare occasions did he socialize with them after hours. I personally don't view his silence as cheating, but rather a refusal to be browbeaten into being anti-social simply to appease his wife's rampant paranoia.

That's why I think it's important to communicate early in the relationship exactly what's expected and/or tolerated, and that the burden of responsibility for initiating this dialogue falls to whomever holds that expection for the other. I don't think that cheating is a matter of doing something with another partner of which your significant other would not approve. I think it's more of a matter of doing that which has been mutually agreed to be a dealbreaker.
 
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to quote the great Carol Burnett..this is my philosophy...


no ring, no ring-a-ding-ding...
 
If one is not married, there is no such thing as "cheating".
How can one "cheat" on something they are not legally bound to?
Someone promising all their love or some shit doesn't mean jack until they are married.

So once they are married, then I think sexual gratification would be cheating.
 
If one is not married, there is no such thing as "cheating".
How can one "cheat" on something they are not legally bound to?
Do people ever cheat at cards? Are they legally bound not to? Or are they just violating their agreement with the other players to play by certain rules?

If you play around with your girlfriend's best friend (for example) then you're a cheatin' dog. It doesn't matter that you aren't married to her.
 
Do people ever cheat at cards? Are they legally bound not to? Or are they just violating their agreement with the other players to play by certain rules?

If you play around with your girlfriend's best friend (for example) then you're a cheatin' dog. It doesn't matter that you aren't married to her.

I can`t say that we have always scene eye to eye, but on this subject yes he would be a cheatin` dog.
 
Do people ever cheat at cards? Are they legally bound not to? Or are they just violating their agreement with the other players to play by certain rules?

If you play around with your girlfriend's best friend (for example) then you're a cheatin' dog. It doesn't matter that you aren't married to her.

Ah well I didn't know we were talking about games or objects also.
And flockof seagulls, quit kissing butt.
 
If one is not married, there is no such thing as "cheating".
How can one "cheat" on something they are not legally bound to?
Someone promising all their love or some shit doesn't mean jack until they are married.

So once they are married, then I think sexual gratification would be cheating.

Using Redmage's example, if you had sex with you girlfriend's best friend, you wouldn't consider that cheating because you're not legally bound to her? Even if you were dating 6 months, 9 months, a year? Boy, I don't think your girlfriend would understand that reasoning. She'd kick you to the curb.
 
I say, if you are either dating or married to somebody and it is implicitly understood that it is an exclusive relationship, then, you should not do anything verbal or physical with another person that you would not do with a sibling. You could be out late sipping wine talking personally with a sibling, but the good night hug and kiss isn't going to be long or erotic, and it's not going to involve the tongue, the breasts, or the buttocks in any kind of caressing touch. I disagree that it's only applicable if you're married, and I disagree that only sexual intercourse counts. If it's implicitly understood that you're only having romantic and erotic interactions with one person, then this should be so in reality. It's about honesty and trust.
 
If one is not married, there is no such thing as "cheating".
How can one "cheat" on something they are not legally bound to?
Someone promising all their love or some shit doesn't mean jack until they are married.

So once they are married, then I think sexual gratification would be cheating.

If you are in a relationship, there are certain expectations. One of them would be not to screw around outside the relationship. If you do, married or not, it's cheating! If you are doing something with someone you cannot tell your partner about without causing them harm and pain, then it is cheating!

At least if that person was in relationship and relations with me, that's how it would go.
 
At one time, the wife of my boss confided in me that she liked to be tied up.

At the time, I was single, so I had no moral obstructions, and she considered cheating to mean "having sex with someone other than your spouse", so on several occasions, I tied her up and tickled the living hell out of her, which she got off on quite a bit.

Cheating, in my opinion, is sharing something with someone other than your spouse or significant other that involves a deep emotional bond.
 
Do people ever cheat at cards? Are they legally bound not to? Or are they just violating their agreement with the other players to play by certain rules?

If you play around with your girlfriend's best friend (for example) then you're a cheatin' dog. It doesn't matter that you aren't married to her.

Exactly!

My personal definition is:

If you are married, then you are comitting adultery.

If you are in a relationship, you are cheating.

Betrayal of trust is betrayal of trust. Bottom line. As far as I am concerned, adultery/cheating may have two different pitches and tones, but al in all, they are STILL the worst act of betrayal a human can commit.

Betraying a friend is bad but cheating on someone you are so betrothed to, body and soul, is much worse IMO.
 
At one time, the wife of my boss confided in me that she liked to be tied up.

At the time, I was single, so I had no moral obstructions, and she considered cheating to mean "having sex with someone other than your spouse", so on several occasions, I tied her up and tickled the living hell out of her, which she got off on quite a bit.

Cheating, in my opinion, is sharing something with someone other than your spouse or significant other that involves a deep emotional bond.[/QUOT

How could you look your boss in the face and not feel like incredibly guilty ???
 
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