Who Do You Think Is The Greatest Quarterback In Pro-football History?

[ElectricEye72]

Allow me to begin...ok who else but the man whos touchdown record looks like it will be broken this year, Dan Marino. Never had a running game, a good tight end (not 100% sure about that but I dont remember any), a dominant defense, etc.,etc. No Superbowl rings? WHO CARES??? You need a TEAM to win a superbowl, see John Elway meets Terrell Davis and his faster than light linebackers! Montanna? 5 yard pass to Rice,Taylor,Craig which they turn into a 87 yard touchdown play. Roger Staubach/Troy Aikman? Played on great teams. Terry Bradshaw played on BETTER teams! Johnny Unitas? Ok he was before my time as was Fran Tarkenton but ive seen interviews where they both admit to not being as good as Marino. Marinos records will most likely never be broken....ok ok except for that one! And he played in a division with a great Patriots team to contend with, Tony Eason has some good years remember the Jets werent bad either. No Superbowl ring? Again who cares, here are some QBs who won "The Big Game" Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Jim Plunkett, Jim Mcmahon, Mark Rypien are any of those "winners" better than Marino? Hell no! Not even close! Now im sure there are gonna be some interesting arguments in favor of Elway, Montana, Starr and the rest and I really do look forward to seeing them, itll be a learning experience even if I dont agree. As I said though for my money, give me Dan Marino with the game on the line every time! And im a NY Jets fan!! I never forgot the fake spike of Dec. 94!!!!!

 

[AffectionateDan]

It's pretty simple math, really...

16 + 80 = 7

Joe Montana + Jerry Rice = Touchdown

Joe is the patron saint of quarterbacks.

 

[giggleygirl25]

although i will agree with The Grizzly One's choice, i still have to say that Jim Kelly(although he could and did make some boneheaded choices as quarterback) had some speed on him and could throw a bullet to reed/lofton/tasker/metzelars(please excuse my spelling)/thurman thomas at any given time when he wasn't running with the ball himself.🙂

 

[Neutron]

Bullshit..

A team is a reflection of a quaterback. If they lack something it's the quarterbacks fault. Leadership seperates the great ones from the Marinos.

Bart Starr is by FAR the greatest quarterback in NFL history. And this comes from a Packer hater.

NO team has won 3 NFL Titles in a row, except the Starr led Packers, and the last one was with an old team, with NO running backs, an injured offensive line, NO tight end, and a receiving corps that started different wide outs in every game. PLUS he was playing under the pressure of being a two time NFL defending NFL Champ.

Anyone who says anyone but Starr obviously doesn't know Pro Football.

Tron

 

[Neutron]

Marino NEVER Won An Important Game

When it was on the line.

Tron

 

[ElectricEye72]

Ease Up Starr-Gazer!

Tron,
Great arguments in Starrs favor but does that make them facts? Theyre opinions very strong and I admit valid opinions but to say anyone who doesnt agree with you knows nothing about football? Cmon man, thats practically being a Nazi no offense. The girl before you liked Jim Kelly and Dan liked Montanna. Are they wrong? Who knows? but this is America and its a spectator sport football is. Please dont bully people into your way of seeing things. I ask this respectfully and politely as you can see.

 

[giantfan121262]

From what I have seen in my time, I have to give the edge to Marino. Montana was great but he had roger Craig, Jerry rice and John Taylor, all great supporters. Let me ask you a question, did Montana put up those same numbers in his last two years with Kansas City. Marino had no running game that I can remember and no tight end threat. The best supporting cast he had were the Mark Brothers (Duper and Clayton). I remember Tarkenton, but he had Chuck Forman to complement him and John gilliam as a good wide out, and Stu Voigt was very highly under rated as a TE. One mnight make an argument for Unitas but he was before my time. I was just telling it from my perspective. As Tron pointed out, he made a pretty convincing argument for Starr, but as like Unitas, he was before my time as well, so I really can't comment on him either.

 

[Dave2112]

I know it's fashionable for folks (especially folks my age or older) to wax poetic and longing about Unitas, Starr, Tarkinton, Tittle and the usual Hall of Fame list, and they were all great players. In fact, asking who the single greatest is/was is like asking who the best rock band ever was. It's all opinion. You can't even go by records, as Marino's are falling (and it's not just the one) and the records of the "old-timers" get buried everyday. Not because they weren't as good as today's players, but because the game has evolved and changed. As in any sport, no record stands forever.

That being said, I can only comment on quarterbacks that I enjoy watching. You can talk all you want about Super Bowl rings and who had the best cast of teammates, but it still comes down to "who do you like?" In fact, the two QB's that come to mind for me are from teams I don't even like. I'd go with John Elway and Brett Favre to top the list. There were times when both guys had a phenomenal cast surrounding them, and times when they won games almost single-handedly. They've done it both ways. Brett is the NFL's Ironman for one thing. I remember a game earlier this season where Brett went down with a concussion, goes out for two plays, comes back in on 4th and six or some shit like that and chucks a 30-something yard TD. A stupid coaching call, to be sure, but a testament to the guy's abilitites. Elway was something to watch as well, probably even more so when he didn't have Terrell and the rest. Carryin' the game on his shoulders.

Also, I think we're watching history in the making with Peyton Manning, but he's still got a lot of years left.

 

[Neutron]

The Title Of The Thread Is..

Greatest Quarterback in NFL history. NOT greatest quarterback that was in your time or that you can remember.

Either change the title, OR do some research.

I suggest as a minimum the quarterback should have had to won at least SOMETHING. Marino never won a damn thing, in college he didn;t win, nor did he win in the Pros.

I LOVE Montanna, but for 3 Superbowls he had a great team. The only Superbowl he really made a difference in was the second Cincy Superbowl. Montanna had an excellent drive.

Starr had an EVEN better drive, against a far younger team, with better players, in the worst conditions EVER when he took the Packers the length of the field against the Cowboys. He did so with no tight end, and his BEST running back was a guy they picked up off the waiver wire. And lest we forget, he scored the winning touchdown by CHANGING a play so he could keep the ball in his hands. When a big game is on the line the great ones do that. Marino would have NEVER had the balls to even attempt a QB sneak on an icey field against the best front 4 in football. In fact he'd have left the game long before that moment.

Starr wasn't flashy, but he won EVERY big game he played in except one, and that was his first NFL title game against the Eagles. 5 NFL Titles speak for themselves.

The 49ers would have won without Montanna, and in fact they did. The Dolphins would have been a good team WITHOUT Marino, they were never a great team with him. And before you go saying he had nothing, he had a great receiving corps, a decent running game, and was backed by a great defense and an awesome offensive line. So stop trying to say he did it with nothing. That's simply not true.

On the other hand, the Packers teams, while great, would NOT have won all those titles without Starr, and definitely wouldn't have won the last two. Marino rarely played hurt, Starr beat Detroit a team that featured Alex Karras, Roger Brown , Joe Schmidt and Wayne Walker, on a shitty day, with 9 broken ribs and a bruised collar bone.

The guy was the greatest ever, the only one close was Otto Graham.

Tron

 

[Neutron]

Actually Dave..

The game Favre put himself in wasn't a stupid coaching call. Brett put himself in without the coaches knowledge. Word is the coach was NOT happy.

Tron

 

[Neutron]

These Are Not Opinions..

"NO team has won 3 NFL Titles in a row, except the Starr led Packers, and the last one was with an old team, with NO running backs, an injured offensive line, NO tight end, and a receiving corps that started different wide outs in every game. PLUS he was playing under the pressure of being a two time NFL defending NFL Champ."


These are facts.

Tron

 

[Coffee]

Not that i am a fan of his but where does Steve Young fit into this conversation. Superbowl ring and MVP should count for something.

 

[Dave2112]

Rememberin' that now. Still, it's a shaky coaching decision at best to allow the QB to make those decisions without coaches knowledge. Just my opinion, mind you, but I'm not sure how happy I'd be that me or my staff didn't know who was going in on any given play.

Bart Starr was phenomenal, no doubt, and I've seen footage of that Dallas game...really something to see. Also surprised to see Otto Graham brought up...truly one of the legends.

I guess I focus a bit more on the QB's that are playing now (or recently) because I get a kick out of "watching history happen" before looking back on it. One day, I'll be able to have this discussion and bring up the "old-timers" when young people ask me about Manning, Favre, Vick, Culpepper, McNabb...all of the current guys with potential for greatness. I just get a rush when I see one of these guys do something great, knowing that someday 15 years from now, somebody will play that clip and I'll remember being there.

On a side note, and speaking of McNabb...there's another talent that is almost single-handed. Did you see that play on the Monday Nighter against Dallas?...McNabb drops back on the Eagles' own 15 or something like that, finds no one open, shakes off a tackler who actually has a handful of his jersey, runs left, runs right...runs untouched behind the line for 14.6 seconds!...then launches one off his back foot when someone does finally get a hold of him...and hits Freddy Mitchell 62 yards away in double-coverage! That's a play that's reminiscient of the one-man miracles of Starr, Unitas and that school of player. I really think that McNabb has the potential to be remembered fondly by history. He did a pretty good job even before Owens got to Philly, and has never had an exactly stellar cast on offense before, although he does benefit from a great defense.

 

[Neutron]

Up Until This Year..

McNabb cost his team more in big situations than helped them. It's a fact he had more outside the pocket sacks than any quarterback in the league over the past 3 years. (and I like McNabb)

I like GRaham too. My father was a Browns fan so I grew up hearing about Graham. Let's remember Graham led teamsd played in TEN CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES IN A ROW! And in his first NFL game he totally dismantled the defending champs.

If Electric Eye wants to say greatest QBs since the 80s then so be it. However he did say History.

Bobby Layne was a better QB than Marino or Kelly.

Tron

 

[giggleygirl25]

was doing research as was suggested and found somebody that should definitely be on the list: George Blanda

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=29

will probably find more but right now too tired...

 

[Neutron]

The Great Thing About Blanda..

The guy retired because he was insulted the Raiders would actually bring in another back up QB!

Tron

 

[tickletoy3]

Every year athletes get bigger, stronger and yes, faster. Comparing athletes of the 60s to those of today can only be opinion. If this weren't true old records would never be broken. The reason they are, is because as stated, athletes are overall better every year. And can one really access the greatest quarterback in history, when in reality it comes down to the system given the quarterback? If the correct game plan is not put into place by the coach, I don't care who is quarterback, he will fail. So given that, is Starr really that great.. or was it Lombardi? And how about even Don Shula who led the Dolphins to 17-0? With a 'backup' quarterback I might add. Another testiment to the 'system' theory.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Now here's a question: here you are, fifty eight seconds to go, you're on the three, and to win, it's gotta be a touchdown, nothing else. Who you gonna give the ball to, huh? Looking back on what we've seen, there's really only one person who I'd trust to take me to the promised land. Why? Because he's done it so many fucking times!!!

John Elway.

Now, here's something to consider: you talk to Elway's teammates, and they would've gone through a brick wall for him. If the situation was one of real combat in a real war, this was the guy you'd trust with your life...as opposed to someone else who was mentioned here. The very highly talented guy, the one with the superhuman release, the one whose record Payton will break very soon. I've noticed that it was difficult finding people willing to talk about him in other than platitudes that they reserve for talking to the media. It also leaked out that some of his teammates despised him so much that they even spited him at times. I don't know how much credence to put into this, but I saw how Miami let down at times over the years, while Denver continuously played over their heads, accounting for Super Bowl appearances that should never have been. Great leadership grows not on trees.

Roger Staubach literally carried the aforementioned equation to that next level I mentioned previously. He fought in Vietnam. I saw so many two minute drills from him late in his career, that it became a weekly feature. He'd come out of the huddle with a smile on his face, and you knew what it meant, and it meant yet another Dallas victory. How often do qualities like this appear in a man? Payton hasn't shown it yet. Michael Vick might be the next one to reach this level, and I hope he does. He might become the greatest ever.

It means more than being able to throw a football, to read a defense. It means having the intangibles inside of you to go out there and win. Literally carrying everyone on your shoulders, and going out there to win. The rest is nothing but bullshit.

 

[ElectricEye72]

Neutrons Critique of Marino

Marino never won big games? How about the famous monday night game defending the 72 Dolphins perfect record for being broken? His opponents? THE 1985 CHICAGO BEARS!!!! Marino lit up the greatest defense of all times on national TV. The 1984 AFC Championship game against the New England Patriots, Marinos only trip to the Superbowl and he earned it. 1994 vs. my New York Jets "the fake spike game" with the division on the line! Neutron you say he had a great running game? Lets not confuse Sammie Smith with Emmmitt Smith. His defense? "The Miami Pound Machine" of 1991? His offensive line was great ill give you that but cmon the guy needs something. You say Marino never won a big game but conversely how many games did Marino lose? When did Marino make a boneheaded play that cost his team an important game or A game for that matter? Ive seen Elway,Farve,Young,Montana and the "other guys" make dumb plays that cost their team games. Oh and Marino made Duper and Clayton great because he was tossing passes to them much the way Peyton Manning is making Reggie Wayne and Brandon Stokely great right now. Man im defending a Miami Dolphin...hell is freezing over, well I guess its still frozen from the Red Sox World Series win!

 

[socksoff]

How many Superbowls did Roger Stauback of the Cowboys win?
Quite a few wasn't it!?

 

[giantfan121262]

Now here's a question: here you are, fifty eight seconds to go, you're on the three, and to win, it's gotta be a touchdown, nothing else. Who you gonna give the ball to, huh?

Two guys, either Staubach or Montana.

 

[Neutron]

Regular Season Games Are Not Big Games..

Sorry ElectricEye. REgular season games don't count.

Marino wasted a great team because he wasn't mentally tyough enough to take them to the next level.

He beat an average New England team, then got destroyed in a Super Bowl the Dolphins SHOULD have won. Marinos por play in the bright lights did it.

AS for Elway, sorry, I love John too, but his best drives did not come in the Big Show. During the years when Elway had to win the only game that mattered, he didn't play well enough to make a difference. The Superbowls they finally won were because he was on a great team, and had Terrell Davis, not because of Johns play.

By the way, if you Check Bart Starrs record you'll find he had just as many last minute drives as Elway.

You'll also find a Cleveland Quarterback named Brian Sipe had MORE than Elway.

Brian who?


58 SEconds to go, -13 degrees (-58 with wind chill). No running game. Best defense in Pro Football. An Offensive line with 3 injured starters. One normal starting wide receiver. 6th Tight end since the season started.

Starr takes the Packers almost the length of the field, THEN scores on a QB Sneak RIGHT INTO THE TEETH OF JEFRO PUGH AND BOB LILLY!!.

Best ever, bar none.

AS for comparing players of different eras. REmember in the old days those guys had to hold other jobs in the off season. Football was a 5 month a year thing. Butkus, Schmidt, Nitschke, David Robinson, Otto Graham, MOtley, Len Ford. Bill Willis, would all tear of the NFL today.

Jimmy Brown would STILL be the best back in the game, and NO ONE could catch Sayers.

Tron

 

[giantfan121262]

Re: Regular Season Games Are Not Big Games..

You'll also find a Cleveland Quarterback named Brian Sipe had MORE than Elway.

Brian who?


Tron [/B]

Brian Sipe was the QB for the NJ Generals, of the now defunkt USFL. He had Hershel Walker as his feature back.

I also remember him with Cleveland. Decent but not great. #17.

 

[Neutron]

You're Right...

Yet Sipe has just as many come from behind comebacks as Elway.

Play by the same rules that were in effect up to about the late 70s, and a LOT of todays superstars are average,

By the way, the famed "spike" play by Marino was actually used by Bernie Kosar three times prior to Marino ever tried it.


Tron

 

[ElectricEye72]

Neutron and Knox

Knox good points about Marino, you too Tron and just when I thought you were a mindless bully! You guys are making me think about my choice...congrats! You guys know your shit! I do disagree with one point each of you make. Tron regular season games DO count when they have something on the line and did you really expect the Dolphins to beat the Niners in Superbowl 19? I sure didnt, the 'Phins were last against the run that year, enter Roger "Superman" Craig! Knox although Marino WAS despised by his linemen and recievers remember Marino had gifts from God and to make his players better he disciplined them did it work? Maybe, Maybe not even you say the words by his teammates were sketchy when discussing Marino. A similair coach had a habit the same as Marino who did pretty well with yelling at his players... his name? Vince Lombardi! My rebuttal but you both make excellent points about the ol' QB situation!