Why do people have to be mean?

[c7_assassin]

Sure you do. I mean you felt offended because people liked someone you didn't? How sick is that? No you just felt like trolling the thread showing everyone what kind of human being you were. Not much of one. You made offensive remarks about the guy just because you wanted to troll the thread and get all the attention thrown on you. That's all. It wasn't because you were offended, it wasn't because you wanted to make a point. It was just trolling. Plain and simple. And as we all know trolls want attention.

Well, I'm glad we have you here to explain what I'm "really" doing. I'm not accusing you of anything, don't accuse me of lying in my posts. Who's trolling now?

"Liked something I don't?" Where did I say that? I'm not talking about the man's music, his music is not why I dislike him. I said what offends me is that a person who is universally acknowledged to be a pedophile can die, and suddenly everyone will be singing his praises and saying things like "It doesn't matter to me, he was the king of pop." That's not right! That's fucking dangerous!

Feel free to explain to the nice people what I'm "really" trying to say with this one.

 

[PenMasterRule]

What really insults me is when people question other peoples intent. I mean who are they to scrutinize why I feel bad that someone I admired died? I don't care if he made Thriller or not. Here's a big surprise! I never heard the song once in my entire life! Huge shocker, huh? I haven't seen the MJ movie either and I've hardly heard any of his songs. But I do know about the great things he did. The crap he suffered through.

Yesterday on the TMF was horrible. It just showed people have no respect for the dead or people who grieve over them. It just showed me the true colors of certain individuals. I'm not judging the entire TMF based on their petty actions of course.

 

[PenMasterRule]

Well, I'm glad we have you here to explain what I'm "really" doing. I'm not accusing you of anything, don't accuse me of lying in my posts. Who's trolling now?

"Liked something I don't?" Where did I say that? I'm not talking about the man's music, his music is not why I dislike him. I said what offends me is that a person who is universally acknowledged to be a pedophile can die, and suddenly everyone will be singing his praises and saying things like "It doesn't matter to me, he was the king of pop." That's not right! That's fucking dangerous!

Feel free to explain to the nice people what I'm "really" trying to say with this one.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU WERE DOING?! You were accusing us of missing this guy because of THRILLER! And you were accusing us of thinking this guy is a joke the day before he dies! You are nothing more then a trolling hypocrite!

And as I thought. You have no proof. Just your loud mouth.

 

[c7_assassin]

What is all of this comparison to OJ stuff?? I ain't buying it! It's just an easy scapegoat to justify the meanness that came out in people yesterday. The only thing MJ and OJ have in common is Johnnie Cochran, thank you very much!

Kis, I'm not saying the cases are the same. OJ Simpson is a worse human being than Michael Jackson ever was, I know that.

I'm using the comparison to maybe give this a little perspective: if OJ had died and not Michael, there would be people posting things like "RIP OJ. He had some problems, but he did great things in football and Capricorn 1 was an awesome flick!"

That would offend me, just like I would hope it would offend most sane people in this world. Yes, a man died, and I'm not going to fuck up the grieving process for anyone who was actually close to him. But let's not lose our minds over this. Michael was a pedophile. If 1000 people want to post "We love you Michael" tributes, I don't think 2 or 3 of us should be attacked for also posting "BTW, fuck pedophiles" to keep everything in perspective. Maybe I'm insensitive; but maybe you're being oversensitive.

 

[PenMasterRule]

Kis, I'm not saying the cases are the same. OJ Simpson is a worse human being than Michael Jackson ever was, I know that.

I'm using the comparison to maybe give this a little perspective: if OJ had died and not Michael, there would be people posting things like "RIP OJ. He had some problems, but he did great things in football and Capricorn 1 was an awesome flick!"

That would offend me, just like I would hope it would offend most sane people in this world. Yes, a man died, and I'm not going to fuck up the grieving process for anyone who was actually close to him. But let's not lose our minds over this. Michael was a pedophile. If 1000 people want to post "We love you Michael" tributes, I don't think 2 or 3 of us should be attacked for also posting "BTW, fuck pedophiles" to keep everything in perspective. Maybe I'm insensitive; but maybe you're being oversensitive.

You're such a troubled soul. Everything offends you. Should we check with you from now on before we sing someones praises just to make sure it doesn't offend you? And what's your name again?

 

[kis123]

"Liked something I don't?" Where did I say that? I'm not talking about the man's music, his music is not why I dislike him. I said what offends me is that a person who is universally acknowledged to be a pedophile can die, and suddenly everyone will be singing his praises and saying things like "It doesn't matter to me, he was the king of pop." That's not right! That's fucking dangerous!

Universally acknowledged pedophile?? Wow--them's some interesting words. He was never acknowledged as a pedophile; he was an accused (and acquitted) pedophile! Did he do it? Very good chance he did, but nonetheless never acknowledged. Before you start slinging vocabulary around, maybe you should consult dictionary.com first; it only makes you look bad.

I saw no one post that it didn't matter; it does matter that the man was sick and no one lifted a finger to help. It does matter that his legacy will always be tarnished because of the accusations alleged against him. It will matter that his health deteriorated both physically and mentally and he was still pushed to crank out concerts. All of that matters.

Feel free to explain to the nice people what I'm "really" trying to say with this one.

I absolutely hate being patronized to and have no tolerance for it! And who are you to assume to know what we thought and felt prior to his death?? There are many of us who hated the bad and loved the good enough to tribute to him, not just spit on his dead body even before it gets cold.

 

[PenMasterRule]

Universally acknowledged pedophile?? Wow--them's some interesting words. He was never acknowledged as a pedophile; he was an accused (and acquitted) pedophile! Did he do it? Very good chance he did, but nonetheless never acknowledged. Before you start slinging vocabulary around, maybe you should consult dictionary.com first; it only makes you look bad.

I saw no one post that it didn't matter; it does matter that the man was sick and no one lifted a finger to help. It does matter that his legacy will always be tarnished because of the accusations alleged against him. It will matter that his health deteriorated both physically and mentally and he was still pushed to crank out concerts. All of that matters.



I absolutely hate being patronized to and have no tolerance for it! And who are you to assume to know what we thought and felt prior to his death?? There are many of us who hated the bad and loved the good enough to tribute to him, not just spit on his dead body even before it gets cold.

Exactly! Thank you.

 

[c7_assassin]

My name is John. And as you can see from my sig, I'm not hiding behind a mask either.

I said what I said about Thriller because I don't stomach hypocrisy. Michael Jackson was, first and last, a pop star. That's why he's famous, that's what gave him the money and power to do what he did. I was saying, he's not Norman Borlaug.

If you want to go over this conversation, I think you're making a few more personal attacks on me than I am on you. In fact, I think I'm calmly explaining to you what I think about all this, and your response over and over is "You're a TROLL! YOU'RE A TROLLING HYPOCRITE!!!"

Go back and play in your "How Much Do We Love Michael" thread. I'll stay over here.

 

[c7_assassin]

And Kis, you're "acknowledging" that he was a pedophile right now. I never said "self-acknowledged." You're right, dictionaries are useful.

 

[kis123]

And Kis, you're "acknowledging" that he was a pedophile right now. I never said "self-acknowledged." You're right, dictionaries are useful.

Alleged and acquitted
Universally acknowledged

Uh, two different things and if I have to spend time explaining that to you, all your previous teachers need to be fired!

Now I'm not going to spend my day arguing with you; what you did yesterday was wrong and now you're backpeddling to defend yourself through this thread. Have you noticed you haven't been very successful at it?

And before you start the "I'm standing by my statements and don't care what other's think" rants, answer me this. If you didn't care, then exactly why are you here??

 

[PenMasterRule]

My name is John. And as you can see from my sig, I'm not hiding behind a mask either.

I said what I said about Thriller because I don't stomach hypocrisy. Michael Jackson was, first and last, a pop star. That's why he's famous, that's what gave him the money and power to do what he did. I was saying, he's not Norman Borlaug.

If you want to go over this conversation, I think you're making a few more personal attacks on me than I am on you. In fact, I think I'm calmly explaining to you what I think about all this, and your response over and over is "You're a TROLL! YOU'RE A TROLLING HYPOCRITE!!!"

Go back and play in your "How Much Do We Love Michael" thread. I'll stay over here.

And I noticed you didn't reply to my Ed Mcmahon dies thread. I guess I lucked out and the guy didn't offend you.

And no I think I'll stay here. Because you already trolled that thread and turned it into a joke! You felt offended and you wanted everyone to know why they should care. lol. You deliberately trolled that thread like you're trolling this one.

And I didn't accuse you of hiding. What I'm saying (which you obviously missed the point) is who cares if you're offended? That doesn't give you a right to troll and trash someones thread.

You are a hypocrite and a troll. Nothing more.

 

[c7_assassin]

I don't retract a single word I've said. I'm standing by my statements, and I do care what others think. That's why I'm explaining. If you're not interested in hearing any explanations, then why are you here?

 

[PenMasterRule]

And before you start the "I'm standing by my statements and don't care what other's think" rants, answer me this. If you didn't care, then exactly why are you here??

Didn't you know? He was offended....

Like I was offended when people used my thread to make jokes about the man. Or used my thread to troll and insult not only a dead person, but people who were alive (And if you want to know how he insulted people paying respect to the man just keep reading.). To accuse them of only liking MJ for thriller. One song. Also accusing MJ of being a pedophile. And compare him to a murderer.

 

[PenMasterRule]

If you're not interested in hearing any explanations, then why are you here?

Because you didn't start this thread. This thread was inspired by yourself and the others.

 

[c7_assassin]

Because you already trolled that thread and turned it into a joke!

I made one comment originally, and I responded to the personal attacks that came later. Just like in this thread. If you weren't so sensitive about comments I made about a dead pop star whose work (from what you've told us) you were barely even aware of, then this could have been over a long time ago.

How do you get on in life if this is how easily offended you are?

 

[PenMasterRule]

c7_assassin: I made one comment originally, and I responded to the personal attacks that came later. Just like in this thread. If you weren't so sensitive about comments I made about a dead pop star whose work (from what you've told us) you were barely even aware of, then this could have been over a long time ago.

Maybe if you paid attention to what I said... I said I didn't listen to a lot of his songs. I never said I wasn't aware of what he did. I know about the charities he gave to, his causes, I knew about that. That's why I made the thread yesterday about him!

How do you get on in life if this is how easily offended you are?

And how do you get on in life being offended yourself? Especially when what offends you has nothing to do with you?

I'm not going to count, but how many times have you used the word 'offended' prior to this?

 

[Deleted member 66627]

I don't retract a single word I've said. I'm standing by my statements, and I do care what others think. That's why I'm explaining. If you're not interested in hearing any explanations, then why are you here?

The only issue I had personally is that you came into what was inevitably going to turn into a tribute thread and kinda blew it up. You knew and saw that folks were grieving for their own reasons and still posted snark.

I'm sure you've seen how threads like that turn out.

You have your own reasons as to why you dislike Michael Jackson and they might be different from other people's reasons why they dislike Michael Jackson. That goes along the same vein of reason's why people loved or respected him too.

Attempting to inquire or demand as to why we do what we do or feel what we feel is difficult, even more so when trying to state or imply that we shouldn't feel thusly.

I don't think many we're necessarily telling you what you think is wrong. And if so, that's unfair. But you more or less attempted to make fans feel guilt for mourning. I think that's also what helped spawn all the attacks on you.

Emotions run high when shit like this happens. And a lot of us snapped when we saw people make negative comments.

You mentioned also about making some comment or thread before he died about how great he was. Well, you nor the other nay-sayers didn't come up with a controversial thread directed at him either. Because it's not until something like a death happens that brings forward a lot of emotion or feeling.

It was in bad timing, but not certainly something that should be held over you and the others forever more. It's not like Michael Jackson was my family. He was just a man who put music in my life that made things a bit easier. And that's what I miss and will continue to miss with his passing.

 

[kis123]

I don't retract a single word I've said. I'm standing by my statements, and I do care what others think. That's why I'm explaining. If you're not interested in hearing any explanations, then why are you here?

You're not giving explanations, you are making excuses and there's a huge difference. You are trying to justify behavior that simply cannot. You all but imploded a tribute thread and instead of apologizing for that (then shutting up), you soft-lob a loose apology peppered with more negativity and insults.

Why am I here? To point out the obvious to you whether you want to see it or not.

I won't be spending my day playing tit-for-tat with you; if having the last word is more important than you seeing the error of your behavior on that thread, then have at it.

If you truly cared what others think, you would've kept your comments to yourself or started a separate thread. I don't know if you were looking for attention or if you are one of those who make a mistake and don't want to admit it and will defend it to the end. I haven't figured out what your intentions are and after a day or less, I won't care a lot.

There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion, but common sense should've dictated to you that a tribute thread is NOT the place for spewing venom and hurling accusations already addressed in a court of law. Simply put, it was in poor taste.

Oh, and when OJ dies, I'll do one of two things; I'll post something positive in a tribute thread, or keep my mouth shut.

 

[c7_assassin]

But you more or less attempted to make fans feel guilt for mourning.

It's not like Michael Jackson was my family. He was just a man who put music in my life that made things a bit easier. And that's what I miss and will continue to miss with his passing.

Crystal, I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty for feeling anything. If that's how you took it, I apologize. I was just expressing myself. The rest came later, after a few nasty comments thrown my way.

And I appreciate the fact that you came here to talk, not to troll. We should probably all try to get past the bad vibes.

 

[PenMasterRule]

You're not giving explanations, you are making excuses and there's a huge difference. You are trying to justify behavior that simply cannot. You all but imploded a tribute thread and instead of apologizing for that (then shutting up), you soft-lob a loose apology peppered with more negativity and insults.

Why am I here? To point out the obvious to you whether you want to see it or not.

I won't be spending my day playing tit-for-tat with you; if having the last word is more important than you seeing the error of your behavior on that thread, then have at it.

If you truly cared what others think, you would've kept your comments to yourself or started a separate thread. I don't know if you were looking for attention or if you are one of those who make a mistake and don't want to admit it and will defend it to the end. I haven't figured out what your intentions are and after a day or less, I won't care a lot.

There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion, but common sense should've dictated to you that a tribute thread is NOT the place for spewing venom and hurling accusations already addressed in a court of law.

Oh, and when OJ dies, I'll do one of two things; I'll post something positive in a tribute thread, or keep my mouth shut.

I plan on keeping my mouth shut about OJ. Because other then those 'Naked Gun' movies I don't have anything good to say.

And I'm actually done with the thread. I believe it was created to bring an important point to light. It didn't fail to do that, but some people just won't get it. And I can sit here and let it really become personal. I could insult and get myself banned. Which wouldn't do me much good considering I have a few projects coming out and their success would depend on me being able to post and advertise.

Anyways I'm done. I think I did my best pointing out my feelings on this subject. And I don't believe I failed. I'm walking away knowing I was right.


Thanks Kis and Crystal and the others who weren't insulting. Now to go back to actually enjoying the TMF.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Crystal, I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty for feeling anything. If that's how you took it, I apologize. I was just expressing myself. The rest came later, after a few nasty comments thrown my way.

And I appreciate the fact that you came here to talk, not to troll. We should probably all try to get past the bad vibes.

Appreciated, my friend. 🙂 I've enjoyed a bunch of your posts before, and was a little shocked at that post. Probably also what caused my harsh response.

Some folks just take it personally. And although it's great that we have our own opinions and as long as it isn't direct flame towards one another (something I'm epically guilty of and admit to), then we should be free to share them.

But as always, not without cost. Hence folks accusing you of trolling.

I don't think you were trolling. You were sharing as we were.

/shrug.

 

[venray]

I really think the horse has been beaten enough here........

But all can feel free to take a few more whacks just for fun if you like...


Both sides are wrong in the way this is being handled......

Tracy and I will be doing a tribute to Michael's music on our show on Tuesday night....

We will not allow the chat room to become a battle ground for discussion on the man's personal life......

Any who cannot abide by this and decide to attack one another will be muted from making comments in chat that night.....

Those who like the music....come listen and remember what it meant to us at the time...as we do with many artists whose personal lives are crap......the music and what it did for us is all that matters now.......

 

[PenMasterRule]

c7_assassin: Crystal, I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty for feeling anything. If that's how you took it, I apologize. I was just expressing myself. The rest came later, after a few nasty comments thrown my way.

Last thing I'm going to say to you. No one threw any nasty comments your way. You decided to troll my thread and this one. You decided to insult and throw accusations around. You came to a tribute thread wanting to start problems like the others did.

And congratulations, hats off to you, you succeeded.

And I appreciate the fact that you came here to talk, not to troll. We should probably all try to get past the bad vibes.

Unlike yourself who did come here to troll. And as long as you are insulting people, trying to make them feel guilty and throwing unfounded accusations around these 'bad vibes' will remain. Like my thread your intent for this thread was wrong.

Plain and simple.

 

[c7_assassin]

You're not giving explanations, you are making excuses and there's a huge difference.

Kis, you really don't want to get into a semantic argument with me.

Again, more personal attacks. Do you think maybe that's what imploded your other thread?

Oh, and when OJ dies, I'll do one of two things; I'll post something positive in a tribute thread, or keep my mouth shut.

Kis, I absolutely believe you. And it will be utterly wrong, and I'll say so at the time. You'd better bar me from that thread when the time comes.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Both sides are wrong in the way this is being handled......

It's not really sides as much as it is opinions. And that's normal, especially considering the circumstance.

The only thing some folks are 'wrong' for is slamming at each other. Not for having an opinion on the over-all situation.