Why is Star Wars so Popular?

[DEV]

As I pointed out earlier, the Empire didn't believe that the Death Star could be defeated.

But they were sending it into battle with a flaw that could instantly destroy it. It's just the sheer arrogance and wilful negligence that grates me. Although I'm starting to concede how the Rebellion was able to survive for twenty odd years if this is how the Empire ran things.

if you can set aside your prejudices and look at it.

Actually that point was more or less me thinking out loud. Not pointing out any flaw.

However the Imperial fleet had not been able to defeat them for 20 years, and it couldn't defeat them then.

I'm not talking about completely defeating them, just gathering the Fleet for a one off in order to just decapitate the leadership on Yavin while they've still got the plans before dispersing again to combat any threats and keeping the Death Star away from any real potential threat. Maybe have it swap its place with one section of the Fleet.

So, yeah...predator-laced jungle planet infested with the dark side does not make a good spot to raise a baby by oneself.

So why couldn't Kenobi have helped a bit with the training at all? I mean, if Vader or the Emperor couldn't find him on Tatooine, training Luke doesn't seem that much of a risk.

Even if they suspected that Kenobi had survived it would be in their interest to pretend that he had not.

Even though he had defeated Vader and presented a clear threat? If there's a wasp in the room, I know I want to be able to see the thing.

 

[Goodieluver]

In your house, im sure its protected from people busting in the front door or windows right?

Do you know of every small crack which may or could be exploited into getting into your house?

That is the deathstar reasoning. It was thought to be suicide that small fighters could be able to inflict any significant damage to the deathstar

Also shove a potato up your exhaust of your car and it will die. Same concept but you need exhaust

Kenobi was like Yoda. They were mentally broken. All their friends were killed. They felt every death through the force. His best friend\padawan turned on him and became a sith. That means he failed as a teacher and his failing resulted in the fall of the Jedi Order

I would need years to recover from that

and again, they knew the prophecies.

They thought anakin was but discovered they were wrong and knew that one would come to bring balance to the force

 

[Redmage]

But they were sending it into battle with a flaw that could instantly destroy it. It's just the sheer arrogance and wilful negligence that grates me.

Again, the Empire did not know about the "flaw." Remember that the Death Star's tactical staff had to run an analysis of the Rebels' attack strategy before they had any idea what the Rebs were after. And even then Tarkin refused to believe the analysis. Clearly they had not flagged that vent as a critical weakness. They didn't believe the Death Star had a critical weakness.

Yes, arrogance and overconfidence were always the Empire's (and the Emperor's) great weaknesses. On the other hand, as I've mentioned before, a lot of men died trying to exploit that weakness, and the clear message of the film is that Luke's success was literally superhuman. So there's some justification for their confidence.

I'm not talking about completely defeating them, just gathering the Fleet for a one off in order to just decapitate the leadership on Yavin while they've still got the plans before dispersing again to combat any threats and keeping the Death Star away from any real potential threat. Maybe have it swap its place with one section of the Fleet.

Because, first, the Death Star's job was not to stay away from potential threats. It was meant to be a weapon of intimidation, and it can't serve that purpose if the Empire is clearly afraid to put it into harm's way.

Second, not to beat a dead horse, the Empire didn't believe that the Rebels could seriously threaten the Death Star. On the other hand they knew by then that the Rebels could defeat more ordinary ships. So from that perspective it only made sense to send the Death Star and let "more vulnerable" ships sit it out on guard duty.

And third, it takes much less time to mobilize and move one ship than it does to set a fleet in motion. The Death Star could get there quickly enough, with enough concentrated firepower, to destroy Yavin before the Rebel leadership had time to evacuate. By the time the Empire could have put an equivalent fleet together the Rebels might well have abandoned Yavin - not to mention the havoc they could cause in the systems that the fleet left undefended.

So why couldn't Kenobi have helped a bit with the training at all? I mean, if Vader or the Emperor couldn't find him on Tatooine, training Luke doesn't seem that much of a risk.

The only reason the Empire never found Obi-Wan is because he did everything he possibly could to remain unnoticed. It's nice to think that boy-Luke could have been trusted never to demonstrate his force abilities around anyone, but would you bet his life, your own life, and the future of the Jedi Order on that hope? I certainly wouldn't.

Also, it's clear from the films that Luke's aunt and uncle knew who Obi-Wan was, and who Luke's father was. They had grown to love Luke, and (particularly his uncle Owen) wanted him to have nothing to do with Kenobi, with Jedi, or with the Empire. They almost certainly would have opposed any attempt by Obi-Wan to meddle in Luke's life, and he couldn't possibly pull it off without their cooperation.

Last, but not least, I wouldn't be surprised if Kenobi had developed a crisis of confidence in his own teaching abilities. After all his first and only pupil had been instrumental in bringing down the Republic and wiping out the Jedi Order. If I were him I'd have a certain reluctance to try teaching another young boy after that.

Even though he had defeated Vader and presented a clear threat? If there's a wasp in the room, I know I want to be able to see the thing.

I'm sure that Vader did want to look for Kenobi - and he almost certainly did so for a while. But every other Jedi in the galaxy was dead, and the longer they went without finding Kenobi or even hearing about him, the less likely it was that he was still alive. It's clear in the film that by the time Vader finally senses Kenobi's presence in the force again, he's almost forgotten about him.

 

[DEV]

They didn't believe the Death Star had a critical weakness.

So no one actually checked to see where the vent led and any sort of trouble that might arise from what would happen? I know the thing was big but putting that much effort into it, going over everything with a fine tooth comb is the least they could do.

the clear message of the film is that Luke's success was literally superhuman.

Only because he switched off the targetting system and decided to rely on the Force.

It was meant to be a weapon of intimidation,

It just blew up and entire Planet. How much more intimidating is needed? Just let the other fellas take care of it, lessen the risk of being hit badly. The Rebels had the plans for the Death Star, it doesn't take much common sense to even give it some form of reinforcement.

The only reason the Empire never found Obi-Wan is because he did everything he possibly could to remain unnoticed.

Couldn't he have done the same for Luke? Find an isolated spot and get to training. Even if his confidence had been knocked, I think circumstances rather demanded that he get round to doing something.

he's almost forgotten about him.

A guy who trained him as a child, was his greatest friend, hacked off his limbs and left him to die in agony in lava?

 

[Redmage]

So no one actually checked to see where the vent led and any sort of trouble that might arise from what would happen? I know the thing was big but putting that much effort into it, going over everything with a fine tooth comb is the least they could do.

Look around you in the real world. I could write you up a laundry list of huge, expensive projects that failed catastrophically because someone missed something crucial, or thought that safeguards were adequate when they weren't. The films are clear that the Empire did not believe that the Death Star could be defeated, and that even when the target of the Rebel attack was identified the commander did not take the threat seriously.

Like it or not, there it is. But in the Empire's defense, the films also make clear that no ordinary pilot could have done what Luke did. The Empire did not plan to repel an attack by a Jedi in a small fighter. That's not really such a grand oversight.

Only because he switched off the targetting system and decided to rely on the Force.

Exactly. And he was probably the only living pilot besides Darth Vader who could have done that.

It just blew up and entire Planet. How much more intimidating is needed? Just let the other fellas take care of it, lessen the risk of being hit badly. The Rebels had the plans for the Death Star, it doesn't take much common sense to even give it some form of reinforcement.

No, just blowing up a planet isn't enough. Alderaan was defenseless. It would be like a big bully beating up a toddler, then hiding when the older boys came around. How intimidating would he be if he did that? The Empire had to show that the Death Star could face any opposition and win.

Couldn't he have done the same for Luke? Find an isolated spot and get to training. Even if his confidence had been knocked, I think circumstances rather demanded that he get round to doing something.

No, circumstances demanded that he follow the force. He couldn't practically raise a child all by himself. But even if he could have it wouldn't do to raise Luke out in the middle of nowhere, with no other human contact. He wouldn't be fit for ordinary society, or even familiar with basic technology, by the time he was old enough to do any good against the Empire. But neither could a force-trained young boy be trusted to be discreet around other people when the entire Empire was looking for anyone who exhibited force abilities.

A guy who trained him as a child, was his greatest friend, hacked off his limbs and left him to die in agony in lava?

Evidently so. Look at Vader's reaction when he picks up Kenobi's presence in the force. He acts like a man trying to place an old scent or a forgotten tune that he hasn't heard in years. It's clear that he's put Kenobi almost completely out of his mind in the intervening 20 years.

 

[Dussicar]

Actually, there is no real need to debate the issues here. If somebody raises a Star Wars question about inconsistencies in the plot, I usually just respond with "Lucas did it."

It pretty much answers everything.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

The Death Star: With all the rooms, floors, computers, turret guns, towers, docking bays, lights, lasers, buttons, elevators, machines, etc. and only ONE design flaw? A space station about the size of a small planet with only one design flaw is pretty impressive...not to mention the flaw was only about the size of a fist.


Darth Vader killed the Emperor: Well considering no one else was able to, not Yoda or Windu, because he was so powerful. It only suggest the Force planned that the Anikan Skywalker would be the only one to get close enough for the Emperor to let down his guard once he became his apprentice...Lord Darth Vader. Which is probably also why the Jedis were given the prophesy of him being the one to bring back balance to the force and the galaxy. I mean, you don't get named the Emperor of the Galaxy commanding a legion just because you thought it would be a cool name. No one could defeat him because of his ability of deception and the command of the dark side of the Force. So it is only inevitable that it be his own apprentice.

That's just my opinion on it.

 

[DEV]

expensive projects that failed catastrophically because someone missed something crucial, or thought that safeguards were adequate when they weren't.

But why was the vent there? Why was it built large enough to be used as a gigantic weaksauce? Why did they put in all this time and effort for the ultimate weapon and be undone simply because they couldn't be arsed to stick an extra gun turret or bloody wall into the place next to the vent?

Exactly.

So targetting systems can't make a shot Luke himself boasted about doing not half an hour ago in the film? And what's this about Luke being a great pilot? The only reason he made it was because of Vader, if not forhim, two other pilots wouldhave made the run easily enough.

How intimidating would he be if he did that?

I think the message 'we can blow up anyone we wish' is intimidating enough. And just lie about Yavin, say there were other things to do. Just send in a Fleet with Yavin and use the Death Star to blow up Endor's Moon, thus satisfying the Emperor and the fans.

But neither could a force-trained young boy be trusted to be discreet around other people when the entire Empire was looking for anyone who exhibited force abilities.

Which was why they were crawling all over Tatooine once Kenobi started using his to get off? I mean, the most important part to keep a low profile and he almost blows it by using mind control powers, cutting off the arm of someone with a lightsaber and telling Solo, a man who'd quite likely stab them in the back at that point what they were up to? Whilst also training Luke as a Jedi, supposedly the most wanted people in the Galaxy? Talk about falling at the last hurdle. Discreetness didn't seem to be Kenobi's major problem.

He acts like a man trying to place an old scent or a forgotten tune that he hasn't heard in years.

Sorry but no. I don't care how long it's been. You do not forget your mentor since childhood, your greatest friend during a brutal War and finally, the man who overpowered you and left you to die from being burnt to a cinder by lava. Unless the lava fried some brain cells.

 

[Redmage]

But why was the vent there? Why was it built large enough to be used as a gigantic weaksauce? Why did they put in all this time and effort for the ultimate weapon and be undone simply because they couldn't be arsed to stick an extra gun turret or bloody wall into the place next to the vent?

*sigh* Why doesn't anyone fix the one problem that causes a big expensive project to fail?

Usually, because 1) They don't know it's a problem, or 2) They think they've done enough to fix it.

Sorry, I've explained this enough times, in enough different ways, that if you were willing and able to understand it you would have by now. Read back over the several other times I've answered this if you want to repeat the question.

So targetting systems can't make a shot Luke himself boasted about doing not half an hour ago in the film?

That, or Mr. Never-Been-In-Combat might have underestimated the difficulty just a smidge.

Again, it's getting old taking you by the hand and walking you through the obvious.

I think the message 'we can blow up anyone we wish' is intimidating enough.

I'm sure you think that. But in fact a weapon that relies on fear can't work if people think it can be defeated. Therefore it has to demonstrate that it can't be. A bully with a glass jaw is no bully.

Which was why they were crawling all over Tatooine once Kenobi started using his to get off?

Yes, as a matter of fact they were. Or did you forget that Solo had to shoot his way out of Mos Eisley?

Yes, apparently you did. I think we're done here.

Sorry but no. I don't care how long it's been. You do not forget your mentor since childhood, your greatest friend during a brutal War and finally, the man who overpowered you and left you to die from being burnt to a cinder by lava. Unless the lava fried some brain cells.

If that's what you need to believe.