You should have watched Dateline NBC Tonight!

[laughingboy2000]

If you can't comprehend the difference between someone that's 13 and someone that's 18, something's wrong with you. And if you don't think that a sexual relationship between someone under 18 and someone in their 30's or 40's is wrong, you are seriously messed up.

I almost hope you don't have children, because if you encourage them to live out their fantasies through people who wouldn't think twice of doing something to a young child, you're probably just as bad as the molester.

My sexual feelings are the same at 18 as they were at 13, if not a little more creative and imaginative. Again, you, like others, seem to be giving the same old "Because it's just wrong, but i'm not going to show why and instead just tell you that you are a nasty pervert" explanation. Am I seriously messed up if I feel that tying and tickling a 17 year old is ok? A 16 year old? What creates the boundary where it's disgusting to do it and it's ok to do it, besides specific U.S. laws (that are not at all universal, seeing as how even Canada has younger age of consent laws).

Honestly, your comments are exactly what I am talking about. All I have heard is "oh my god you are screwed up for thinking that" when the subject is brought up, but I never hear some specific examples or real information as to why it's so screwed up. You just point and go "I disagree with you, by the way here's an insult!" without backing it up.

 

[Goodieluver]

Something i was thinkin

Ok so these watchgroups go on myspace and teen dating boards and pose as underagers, etc etc

What occurs if another teen messages the person. For the unfortunate, its known how hard adolescence\teens are, esp when dealing with the opposite sex, so im wondering how often do these cops actually deal with teen guys who are lookin for fun\a gf then realize by either bein ignored or realizing they are a cop how scarring that is to them

Yes this is a system needed but im just wonderin what harm\other impacts it has

 

[Fred46]

060503 TMF You should have watched Dateline NBC tonight!

Well, here's some data. Here's what a 40-something guy who might want to tie and tickle a teenage boy looks like. 😉

Very good point. Most 40+ adults would have difficulty attracting an underage partner for tickling or anything else. I feel that most teenagers are mature enough and assertive enough to avoid unwanted advances. If they haven't learned about STDs and pregnancy yet, that would indicate a serious failure by their parents and teachers, since a large percentage of teens in America are sexually active.

In my opinion, police posing as underaged teens and trolling the internet for "pedophiles" is something out of the Spanish Inquisition. I respect everyone's right to feel the way they do about sexual or quasi-sexual relationships between adults and adolescent teens, but I feel that it is absurd to criminalize such things. That doesn't mean I think such activities are appropriate, but I feel that teens are old enough to be held accountable for their own consensual behavior. Young people should certainly be protected from unwanted advances or assaults, either from adults or other teens.

Not to digress too far, but I think that anyone who transmits a venereal disease to someone else should be prosecuted for aggravated assault. That would especially apply to HIV and other incurable viruses. I don't know exactly how many Americans have died of AIDS over the years, but I did find a reference on WebMD indicating that there are 40,000 new AIDS infections every year. With recent medical advances HIV patients can live longer, more normal lives, but at great expense.

I can't believe the way our society has refused to deal with the prevalence of STDs. I feel that the majority of people are incapable of thinking rationally about anything related to sex. That's probably the reason all too many parents don't communicate adequately with their children on the subject, and may also explain why so many people engage in reckless, unplanned (and therefore less "sinful") sexual behavior. It may also explain why all too many people fail to get themselves checked for pregnancy or STDs after they have engaged in high-risk behavior.

Fred46

 

[chicago]

My sexual feelings are the same at 18 as they were at 13, if not a little more creative and imaginative. Again, you, like others, seem to be giving the same old "Because it's just wrong, but i'm not going to show why and instead just tell you that you are a nasty pervert" explanation. Am I seriously messed up if I feel that tying and tickling a 17 year old is ok? A 16 year old? What creates the boundary where it's disgusting to do it and it's ok to do it, besides specific U.S. laws (that are not at all universal, seeing as how even Canada has younger age of consent laws).

Honestly, your comments are exactly what I am talking about. All I have heard is "oh my god you are screwed up for thinking that" when the subject is brought up, but I never hear some specific examples or real information as to why it's so screwed up. You just point and go "I disagree with you, by the way here's an insult!" without backing it up.

There's no laws, other than the age of consent laws, that say that sex, or sexual behavior with a minor is wrong.

And your question about how does it make it ok at 18 and not 16 or 17 is stupid because they have to draw the line somewhere. If the line was drawn at 21, you would say "What makes it ok at 21 and not 20 or 19."

I mean the reason why people think that someone in their 30's or 40's having engaged in sexual activities with someone, let's say 13, is wrong, is because 13 is very young. At 13 most kids aren't really in touch with the real world. They're vulnerable. They don't know how to handle themselves. They're influential. It'd be easy for someone in their 30s or 40s to trick a 13 year old into doing something that's wrong because at 13 you haven't built up the defenses you need as an adult. I mean, I think at 16, 17, and even 18, some of those defenses are there, so I wouldn't be as grossed out if I were to hear about a middle aged man having sex with a 16 year old, but I still don't think it's right.

The fact that you think you are basically as knowledgeable now as you were at 13, and your sexuality is basically in the same state as it was when you were 13, may be correct, but for a lot of people, it's not the case, so when you say that, it sounds absurd, no matter how true it may be.

 

[laughingboy2000]

And your question about how does it make it ok at 18 and not 16 or 17 is stupid because they have to draw the line somewhere. If the line was drawn at 21, you would say "What makes it ok at 21 and not 20 or 19."

So the reason you lumped me as being as bad as a child molester was because I was was creating a slippery slope of where to draw the line?

I mean the reason why people think that someone in their 30's or 40's having engaged in sexual activities with someone, let's say 13, is wrong, is because 13 is very young. At 13 most kids aren't really in touch with the real world. They're vulnerable. They don't know how to handle themselves. They're influential. It'd be easy for someone in their 30s or 40s to trick a 13 year old into doing something that's wrong because at 13 you haven't built up the defenses you need as an adult. I mean, I think at 16, 17, and even 18, some of those defenses are there, so I wouldn't be as grossed out if I were to hear about a middle aged man having sex with a 16 year old, but I still don't think it's right.

When exactly are we ever in touch with the real world? There are 30 year olds who barely grasp reality and live in a fantasy world while there are 10 year olds who are extremely down to earth. Anyone can get tricked, everyone is vulnerable.

The fact that you think you are basically as knowledgeable now as you were at 13, and your sexuality is basically in the same state as it was when you were 13, may be correct, but for a lot of people, it's not the case, so when you say that, it sounds absurd, no matter how true it may be.

Even if I was not as fully intouch with my sexuality at 13 as I was 18, why exactly does that effect whether or not it's right to explore that with someone else who is above 18? I'm certain that there are 20 year olds who are not in touch with their sexuality, maybe after leading sheltered lives or based on their personality. Would it be wrong to do anything with that person because of this?

 

[chicago]

So the reason you lumped me as being as bad as a child molester was because I was was creating a slippery slope of where to draw the line?



When exactly are we ever in touch with the real world? There are 30 year olds who barely grasp reality and live in a fantasy world while there are 10 year olds who are extremely down to earth. Anyone can get tricked, everyone is vulnerable.



Even if I was not as fully intouch with my sexuality at 13 as I was 18, why exactly does that effect whether or not it's right to explore that with someone else who is above 18? I'm certain that there are 20 year olds who are not in touch with their sexuality, maybe after leading sheltered lives or based on their personality. Would it be wrong to do anything with that person because of this?

Listen, you're not really making good points here by saying that there are 20 year olds that aren't in touch with their sexuality and 30 year olds that can't comprehend the real world.

Most of the time, that's not the case. But there are always exceptions.

Apparenlty, no one's going to change your mind that a 30 year old fucking a 13 year old is wrong.

So go ahead and have your pedophila orgy.

I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it.

 

[AquaFeline]

How about legalizing the half + 7 rule? 😉

 

[Goodieluver]

If you can't comprehend the difference between someone that's 13 and someone that's 18, something's wrong with you. And if you don't think that a sexual relationship between someone under 18 and someone in their 30's or 40's is wrong, you are seriously messed up.

I almost hope you don't have children, because if you encourage them to live out their fantasies through people who wouldn't think twice of doing something to a young child, you're probably just as bad as the molester.

There are also people who lie about their age.

 

[chicago]

Well then that's a different situation.


If someone is 13 saying they're 20, how is it the other person's fault?

Isn't that called entrapment? Not sure...

 

[Goodieluver]

Well then that's a different situation.


If someone is 13 saying they're 20, how is it the other person's fault?

Isn't that called entrapment? Not sure...

Yet 20-30 yr olds saying they are 13 isnt entrapment?

I just dislike how these people who apparently have deep rooted problems are paraded on night time tv as "subjects to be studied."

Ends justify the means then i suppose

Plus im pretty much against the norm, i woulda loved to seen the interviewer get cracked, just because u hold a mic\have a tv show doesnt put u in a superior position.

Im also interested in how these stings seem to portray men being the only pedderasts in society yet there is an alarming number of women teachers sexually harassing\taking advantage of students, one such story last week in mchenry

 

[chicago]

Is the 20 or 30 year old posing as a 13 year old to find child molesters or are they saying their 13 to find other 13 year olds.


I think the first situation is justified.

 

[Goodieluver]

Is the 20 or 30 year old posing as a 13 year old to find child molesters or are they saying their 13 to find other 13 year olds.


I think the first situation is justified.

Heh yet if one were to turn this into a political hijack, one would say thats illigal\immoral practice(ends justify the means)

All i will say is glad im not 13 yrs old on one of these forums cuz it would shatter what fragile confidence id have because i wouldnt know if i was talkin to a girl or some 30 yr old cop that id be wastin my time with. The internet is already a cowards paradise where people lie about their ages and see no consequences in it and the small percieve themselves to be mighty and opinionated.

 

[AquaFeline]

All i will say is glad im not 13 yrs old on one of these forums cuz it would shatter what fragile confidence id have because i wouldnt know if i was talkin to a girl or some 30 yr old cop that id be wastin my time with.

I'd be happy to talk to anybody about this when I was 13, just so I wouldn't feel like I was such a sick weirdo. I really doubt most 13 year olds are gonna try to hook up with anyone for tickling (at least, on a forum for adults) unless they're really stupid.

 

[laughingboy2000]

Listen, you're not really making good points here by saying that there are 20 year olds that aren't in touch with their sexuality and 30 year olds that can't comprehend the real world.

Most of the time, that's not the case. But there are always exceptions.

Apparenlty, no one's going to change your mind that a 30 year old fucking a 13 year old is wrong.

So go ahead and have your pedophila orgy.

I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it.

When unable to make an argument, make insults instead 🙂 And make sure you put words in the other persons mouth while you're at it.

 

[tulipangel]

Giggle, I wouldn't waste time arguing! its pointless! I guess some guys like 13 yr old girls/boys! I find it nasty and sick but I guess some don't (and they should have their nuts torn off and chopped up)! IMO

 

[Goodieluver]

I'd be happy to talk to anybody about this when I was 13, just so I wouldn't feel like I was such a sick weirdo. I really doubt most 13 year olds are gonna try to hook up with anyone for tickling (at least, on a forum for adults) unless they're really stupid.

The stings arent done on fetish boards, theyre done off myspace and teen dating forums

 

[Goodieluver]

Giggle, I wouldn't waste time arguing! its pointless! I guess some guys like 13 yr old girls/boys! I find it nasty and sick but I guess some don't (and they should have their nuts torn off and chopped up)! IMO

I agree its sick, but i simply have a problem where these people are used for a tv show to stress a point.

 

[MrPartickler]

Even if I was not as fully intouch with my sexuality at 13 as I was 18, why exactly does that effect whether or not it's right to explore that with someone else who is above 18? I'm certain that there are 20 year olds who are not in touch with their sexuality, maybe after leading sheltered lives or based on their personality. Would it be wrong to do anything with that person because of this?

laughingboy, you're looking for a call on "right" vs. "wrong," and there are no absolutes. This is also an emotionally-charged subject, and you can expect most folks you encounter to be VERY reluctant to yield any ground whatsoever that implies even in the smallest amount that they think it's OK for an adult to have any sort of sexual or fetish-otiented relationship with a kid as young as 13. (Note: Most outrage is still reserved for those adults who are well-above 18...e.g., 30+ years old.)

In reality, we have to admit it happens and probably goes unreported more than we'd like to believe. And I'm sure that not all of those times is it physically or emotionally damaging for the minor. BUT we know that significant harm from such has occurred and does occur often enough with these types of things that most of us find it just egregious that someone--anyone--would take such risk on a child for their own selfish needs.

It's <i>risk</i> of serious, life-long harm from a potentially dangerous unknown that's really being avoided here. Think of it as playing Russian Roulette. Say your chances are 5 in 6 of surviving on one pull of the trigger. (Pretty good right?) Ask yourself: would you play it your own life? would you play it with the life of a child? what would you think of an adult who did play such a game with a child's life--even one who <i>asked</i> to play it for fun?

 

[laughingboy2000]

laughingboy, you're looking for a call on "right" vs. "wrong," and there are no absolutes. This is also an emotionally-charged subject, and you can expect most folks you encounter to be VERY reluctant to yield any ground whatsoever that implies even in the smallest amount that they think it's OK for an adult to have any sort of sexual or fetish-otiented relationship with a kid as young as 13. (Note: Most outrage is still reserved for those adults who are well-above 18...e.g., 30+ years old.)

In reality, we have to admit it happens and probably goes unreported more than we'd like to believe. And I'm sure that not all of those times is it physically or emotionally damaging for the minor. BUT we know that significant harm from such has occurred and does occur often enough with these types of things that most of us find it just egregious that someone--anyone--would take such risk on a child for their own selfish needs.

It's <i>risk</i> of serious, life-long harm from a potentially dangerous unknown that's really being avoided here. Think of it as playing Russian Roulette. Say your chances are 5 in 6 of surviving on one pull of the trigger. (Pretty good right?) Ask yourself: would you play it your own life? would you play it with the life of a child? what would you think of an adult who did play such a game with a child's life--even one who <i>asked</i> to play it for fun?

Thank you for making a good, detailed argument. I see what you're saying and defenitely agree. There is most certainly a risk with this kind of thing, espescially with meeting the wrong person.

You left room for a grey area also instead of making it a complete black and white issue. That's exactly what I've been trying to stress. I can say that I prettymuch agree with what you're saying.

edit- Also, just to add for others, I was talking entirely about tickling, not "fucking" as someone else tried to say I was.

 

[venray]

Ah but to many tickling is just as sexual as "fucking" and I think that was the point "someone" was trying to make....

A minor is a minor and adults should not get involved with them in any fetish oriented or sexual way .....

It makes no difference what you believe about 18 years of age being arbitrary...It is the law...break it and do time.....your choice....



* Personal note * If any adult ever messed with my 13 Y/O daughter in any way even just for "tickling"...I would hunt him down, cut his nuts off, and feed them to him....then I'd get serious about it....I think you will find most parents feel the same way and believe that anyone that would do this type of thing with a minor is a sick fuck.......

 

[Oddjob0226]

Yes, I agree that tickling is sexual to a degree and it's not a good idea to get involved with young teens, but I also remember being a 12 year old (not that long ago really). I wanted to be tied up tickled so badly, but for all those years until I turned 18 I was completely taboo to everyone. It was so frustrating for me that I had absolutely no one to help me explore my tickling fetish that it almost drove me crazy.

I totally understand where you're coming from. This was me too, completely. I can pretend for the sake of the TMF board that I just discovered tickling on my 18th birthday, and in all my private memories of past ticklish situations I'm always collage age when I relive them, but that's not the way really is!

Back then, had I actually gotten a chance to indulge in tickling with someone - my age OR older - in a more fetishy, but not sexual per se, most likely I would been A.) scared off by it, or B.) so totally blown away by the experience that I would have been an incredible thrillseeking addict trying to relive the situation over and over. Kind of like what I've become now. Crap.

More closer to reality..... Had I actually gotten a chance to indulge in tickling with someone - my age OR older - in a more fetishy, but not sexual per se, yes, most likely some adult female would have taken sexual advantage of the situation. Not all who would have ticklishly indulged me, but many; if they willingly explored this odd road, they more than likely would have been willing to explore this questionable road.... Very true. That may have 'only' meant she pleasured herself in my presence after our ticklish explorations, but still, same uncomfortable arena.

But that's not what this author, Laughingboy200 is bringing up. He's not talking about being tickled then repeatedly raped in the butt by your fathers. He's talking about being tickled by seasoned others who knew and understood. It's like he's saying, "I always wanted to live on the moon", and many of you responding "You durn fool, you'd die from lack of oxygen!" In the idealized argument he has constructed, that is an issue that wouldn't happen or has been taken care of. Go easy on the boy. In the IDEAL situation, the perfect model he has created in his mind, he would have gotten what he wanted and things would have been safe. Yes, in reality things probably would not have gone that way, but he's not exploring a reality-based situation, he's exploring a past-tense ideal model. Believe me, if I had a time machine and my then- sophmore German teacher invited me back to her haus for a ticklish exploration of Teutonic interrogation techniques, I'd be mighty interested. Or, the same thing involving the girl my exact age who sat next to me in sophmore German class. But in this longing situation which I have created and brought forth, my li'l teen butthole would be completely safe (if I can bring a time machine into the scenario, I can probably fend off a bit of rape, trust me). That's the given situation. Nothing added on. That's what Lb2000 brought up. The various argumentum ad logicam being used as argumentum ad numerum doesn't address the romanticized construct that's been presented by LB2000. I knew a Jewish girl who was raped at 14 by her father's best friend. Therefore.... don't trust Jews, they're too horny to make good decisions? Or just their menfolk? The way some of you debate, you've got a career waiting on Capital Hill.

I'm not saying do "it". I am saying people that turn "it" over in their minds - be they the dreams of an underaged person, or from the wishful, distant perspective that time creates on those who are older - are not automatically monsters or fools. Everything doesn't have to absolutely end in personal distruction, even in our deeper wishes.

I'm more worried with someone on this board thinking we "had" to see this show, since it was in fact about sexual predators, not about "what ifs" long past. Someone here saw this show as "getting off" material - and wanted to clue us all into it????

 

[kis123]

I am not talking about that however. I am talking about 100% willful, consensual actions. When I was younger, starting at around 13, I really wanted to get tied up and be tickled. I don't see why it would have been disgusting, bad, or perverted to have someone above 18 do that to me when I am the one who wants and asks for it. Why would THAT be bad?

I have a theory I'd like to share with you that I hope helps. Let's remove the legal, moral, and social issues out for the sake of this. We're going to live in a fantasy world where none of those things matter. I've gone through a similar situation with a relative so I hope this experience explains why this wouldn't be such a great idea in reality.

At the age of 13 is when many teens start dealing with all of those wonderful hormones of adolescence. The fantasies, the feelings, the "things" that eventually come down to their sexuality begin to form and a quest (either idealized or actual) to deal with this begins. Many teens choose to start dating or having physical contact. Many begin full-blown sexual relationships under the guise of love. Many have such a wild sexual imagination (like I did at that age) that they were completely afraid to explore anything, so they didn't until adulthood. With the information age in full swing, answers are just a point-and-click away. A teen can get involved in a lot of stuff nowadays that wasn't either available in my day or wasn't pubically exposed.

My personal problem with a 13 year old having anything physical to do with an 18 year old is that the 13 year old is like a blank canvas. What gets painted on that canvas can mold and shape that teen for life and set whatever pathways they take from that point on. An 18 year old has five years of "been there and done that" in the physically intimate/sexual arena. There is the potential of causing some serious emotional damage to the inexperienced 13 year old in the name of "fun." When the fun is over, the 18year old moves on to more age appropriate activities, and the 13 year old may leave basically "turned-out" with little to nowhere to get his (or her) next amazing experience. That frustration can build into something very unhealthy down the road.

I wouldn't want my 16 year old daughter connected with anyone over 18 because she's still emotionally high-wired right now. If an older person became intimate and physical with her, there would be extreme emotional consequences for my daughter (and extreme consequences for the one who did it as far as I'm concerned). That becomes a huge mess for me to have to clean up and the damage could be irreparable depending on the experience she had.

It's okay to look back and wish for something to have happened when you were 13. As an adult, hindsight is 20/20. But if it had acutally happened when you were 13 and more emotionally immature, it could have been damaging.

I'm not here to judge you and actually understand your post to a degree. I only hope I've helped and not made this worse.

 

[kis123]

Im also interested in how these stings seem to portray men being the only pedderasts in society yet there is an alarming number of women teachers sexually harassing\taking advantage of students, one such story last week in mchenry

I initially believed these were isolated incidents, but I subscribe to the "there's nothing new under the sun" theory. Women have been flying under the radar with this for a very long time. Thanks to Mary Kay and others, it's getting out in the public now.

Plus, there's a percentage of folks who think a young boy getting "some" from his older female teacher is some sort of teenage fantasy fullifulled or something. Although it's just as wrong, there are some who will look the other way or even slap the kid a high-five. He's been just as emotionally damaged as any other adult-on-child sexual relationship to me.

Hey, maybe one day Dateline will do a female predator show! Anything for ratings right?

 

[Lttg]

http://www.wimp.com/some/

from the show. to be honest its hard to feel even the slightest sympathy for that wanker 😛

 

[Tickle Country]

AOC in NY is 16 i think! Ummmm, if i were your 16 yr old daughter and came home with a 40 yr old man and said he is my bf and we are in a tickling relationship you wouldnt FLIP OUT? Ummmm, I would! Id go nuts! No adult should touch a CHILD like that! Lets forget the law then! How about its just nasty! Why would a GROWN man need to tickle and tie up a young 13 yr old boy? Ummmm its sick and nasty! Wanna tie up another grown man who looks young fine! go ahead! But an actual CHILD! YUCK!

Perhaps he lived as a noble in shakespeare's time in a past life, hey just a mildly humorous possibility.