Article in a British tabloid...

[Morning Angel]

Yeah, all 25 of them.


*coughcoughDEFENCECUTScoughcough

Don't worry, Jim. The Canadian Army will add our military might... What's that?... You say that 5 guys on horseback aren't going to help much?... Well, fine then.

 

[MrPartickler]

As an exercise to examine how valid advice like of this nature is, I often try replacing references to "tickling" with an activity presently deemed more socially "acceptable."

For example, I suggest the following for starters:
kissing/making out,
giving a sensual massage,
running fingers through hair,
breast fondling,
oral sex,
etc.

Of course these alternative activities will likely have different side effects than tickling--i.e., physical exhaustion--however, they may have their own person-specific issues to cope with. Still, I suspect each of these activities would probably have been met with a different reply than:
<i>Persuade him to go for councelling and ration his [kissing/making out] to the odd treat.</i>

 

[njjen3953]

At the risk of becoming extremely unpopular, I want to ask a simple question.

Why is it that people with "fetishes" have such a strong, negative opinion of therapists?

First of all, according to the DSM IV(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition)

A fetish is described as:

The use of an inanimate object or a specific part of the body for physical or mental sexual stimulation. This sexual behavior is widespread and takes many forms, from benign (a preference for the partner's wearing of lingerie before sex) to vicious (a rapist cutting a lock of hair from the victim for use in masturbation).

The cause of fetishistic behavior as a pattern of sexual gratification cannot usually be explained easily. It is only when these patterns become part of a larger picture, at least in the far more common cases involving a male, such a picture involves typically involves doubts about ones own masculinity and potency and a fear of rejection and humiliation. By his fetishistic practices and the mastery over an inanimate object, which comes to symbolize for him the desired sexual object, the individual apparently safeguards himself and also compensates some what his feelings of inadequacy.

Tickling, clearly is NOT a fetish and falls more under the category of a paraphilia.

Paraphilias, as defined by the American Psychological Association (APA), are "recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies involving either non-humans, or the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner, and even children or consenting adults." But, this behavior must cause "clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." Sexual practices between consenting adults should not be considered deviant if they do not cause distress. Individuals should have the freedom to expore their sexuality without judgement. What goes on in the privacy of one's home is just that, private.


So, not all professional see us as deviant.

Jen
*studying to become a therapist*

 

[milagros317]

Thanks for posting the current official definitions, Jen.

Now I can say that I am a tickling and foot paraphilia-ist, which is not considered to be a problem by the APA.

 

[Roseblossom]

...according to the DSM IV(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition)

A fetish is described as:

The use of ... a specific part of the body for physical or mental sexual stimulation.

So, the foot guys have a fetish, and the ticklers have a paraphilia?

Innerestin'

~Rose~

 

[BigJim]

Thanks for posting the current official definitions, Jen.

Now I can say that I am a tickling and foot paraphilia-ist, which is not considered to be a problem by the APA.

What have Bradshaw and Faarooq got to do with it?

 

[BigJim]

At the risk of becoming extremely unpopular, I want to ask a simple question.

Why is it that people with "fetishes" have such a strong, negative opinion of therapists?

First of all, according to the DSM IV(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition)

A fetish is described as:

The use of an inanimate object or a specific part of the body for physical or mental sexual stimulation. This sexual behavior is widespread and takes many forms, from benign (a preference for the partner's wearing of lingerie before sex) to vicious (a rapist cutting a lock of hair from the victim for use in masturbation).

The cause of fetishistic behavior as a pattern of sexual gratification cannot usually be explained easily. It is only when these patterns become part of a larger picture, at least in the far more common cases involving a male, such a picture involves typically involves doubts about ones own masculinity and potency and a fear of rejection and humiliation. By his fetishistic practices and the mastery over an inanimate object, which comes to symbolize for him the desired sexual object, the individual apparently safeguards himself and also compensates some what his feelings of inadequacy.

Tickling, clearly is NOT a fetish and falls more under the category of a paraphilia.

Paraphilias, as defined by the American Psychological Association (APA), are "recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies involving either non-humans, or the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner, and even children or consenting adults." But, this behavior must cause "clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." Sexual practices between consenting adults should not be considered deviant if they do not cause distress. Individuals should have the freedom to expore their sexuality without judgement. What goes on in the privacy of one's home is just that, private.


So, not all professional see us as deviant.

Jen
*studying to become a therapist*

At the risk of sounding dumb as a bucket with a hole in it, that needs a straw to fix, but the straw is too long.......

I don't have anything against therapists. I think Americans as a stereotyped group have an unhealthy obsession with them (everyone in America is either seeing a psychiatrist, IS a psychiatrist, or is studying to be a psychiatrist (mind you, the same can be said of lawyers); at least they are if you believe what you read in The Sun) and they didn't do anything for me beyond listen patiently and shrug, but I have nothing against them per se'. What I do have something against are no-brained, dumbshit, fuckwit, agony aunts who recomend councelling for a broken fingernail. Therapists have a very important role in some people's lives, because they help them get their mind back in order. That's not what I'm talking about here though.

As for the lexicographical definition of "fetish", well I use the word to mean a particular fixation with a body part or activity, that causes me significantly more arousal than any other form of sexual pre-activity. I realise that's not precisely how Webster's defines it, but it's how I use it.

 

[mabus]

Actually BigJIm, that's not true. All WEALTHY American's see therapists. If you're like me, and you're poor, you know how you deal with life's problem's? Deal with it! Go to work, take a nap or something. Like I could afford $200 an hour. And everyone I know is in the same boat. But then again, people like me don't NEED therapists. (Boy, I waiting for a hundred smart assed comments....)

But we look at life, and are basically content with what we have, and are happy with it. I know an old lady, who has been busing tables for about 8 or 9 years, lives off the gravel road in a run down trailer, and is 40 something, has grey hiar, walks with a slight limp, and yet is happy and content in life. She has friends at work, friends in the community, and is very happy and at peace with herself. She has no ego, has patience, and a great sense of humor. And I know scores of others like her. I look at stars and rich people who need an expensive therapist for every little problem, and then I look at her, and I think, if only the rich would give some of their stuff away, or SOMETHING, they would possibly be a lot happier! And I'm all for getting rich and making money, but I just think people at the lowest end of the economic scale are forced to deal with what life has given them on their own terms, and also, accept life better than the rich. Many rich or well to do, just aren't content with what they have, and they become depressed, and need therapy. Society also forces people to seek therapy, with problems that could be handled better and cheaper.

I always float a plot around for a video, that has never been done. A female corporate lady, boss, secretary, executive, whatever, has a hard day at work, and in order to unwind after work, and instaed of wasting time at a therapist, goes sees a tickler instead! She gets tickled (in pantyhose, obviously!) and is fully prepared for the next day! If this service was there in real life, but had no "That's wierd!" stigma on it, how many people would be so much better off? The reason people don't like therapists, is because many have struggled for years to become happy with who they are, as ticklephiles, and don't want an "expert" to tell them, "No, all this time, you actually were abnormal."

 

[BigJim]

You a Nostrodamus fan mate?

 

[Ayla ny]

BigJim, there was tickling in the quatrains?

Mabus, there is something to be said for a quiet, happy, stoicism.

 

[Destro]

This thread really peaked my interest. Over the years, I have kept some articles about tickling written in Ann Landers and Dear Abby. Neither of them were fans of this community. Here are some of the letters that I have,(written word for word from the letters in the paper) Maybe one of these letters was written by or about one of you.

1.) DEAR ABBY: My boyfriend loves to tickle me. At first it was a game between us but it has gotten out of hand. Every time we are together, he pins me down and tickles me until I am hoarse from screaming and my lungs ache. I am very ticklish at the bottoms of my feet, my ribs, and underneath my arms and that's what he goes for. This is no laughing matter. He is driving me crazy!-TICKLED TO DEATH IN NEW YORK
DEAR TICKLED: Your friend is sadistic! Tell him now that you want no part of it and forbid him to put a tickling finger on you. If he doesn't take you seriously, take a walk. Tickling is in reality a thinnly disguised method of torture.

2.) DEAR ABBY: My boyfriend loves to tickle me. He pins me to the floor and tickles my ribs until I scream at him to stop. The other night, he tied me to a kitchen chair, removed my shoes and socks and tickled the soles of my bare feet until I was hysterical. I kept begging him to stop but he kept on tickling me and laughing at me until I broke down in tears. This happened over a week ago and he has called me eveyday since to say he's sorry and if I resume our relationship, it will never happen again. I need an answer right away. Abby. I am having trouble forgetting how he tortured me, but I do care for him-TICKLED TO DEATH
DEAR TICKLED: Your boyfriend is sadistic. You were battered just as surely as if he had beaten you. Don't resume your relationship until he sees a psychiatrist.

3.) DEAR ABBY: My boyfriend likes to pin me down and tickle me. I tell him I hate it, but he dismisses my claims because I laugh. How can I convince him that this is torture? He's a great guy.-TICKLED IN TEXAS
DEAR TICKLED: If your guy does anything after you have asked him to stop, he is not that great. If he doesn't stop, find another boyfriend.

4.) DEAR ANN LANDERS: Bud and I have been dating for 4 months and I really love him. Lately he has become a tickling maniac, and he's driving me crazy. Last night, he tied my hands and held me in a chair while his best friend took off my shoes and hose and tickled the bottoms of my feet with a feather for what seemed like an eternity. When they finally untied me, I used some wordsl I didn't know I knew. Now Bud is mad at me and says I made a big scene over nothing. I claim that what he did was not normal. He says I'm the one who is loony. It took me months to get this guy to notice me and ask me out. This first fight is killing me. What do you make of it?-STILL RATTLED
DEAR STILL RATTLED: Your boyfriend has a streak of sadism an inch thick and a yard wide. To tickle for fun, for a few seconds is OK. But to tie a girl's hands and invite a buddy in as part of the act is sick stuff, and you'd better recognize it now before the kook graduates to whips and chains.

5.) DEAR ANN LANDERS: I've read letters in your column about people who love to tickle, under the guise of "having a little fun". You pointed out that when tickling becomes excessive, the "victim" doesn't like it, and the person doing the tickling keeps it up, there's more to it than just fun. "Sadistic" is what you called it, an how right you are. Shortly after we were married, my husband used to sit on my legs, hold my hands down and tickle me until I screamed in agony and begged him to stop. He'd laugh and say "I'm just having a little fun". One night, he nearly drove me crazy with his tickling. I screamed, "If you don't stop, I'm going to spit in your face". He snapped back, "You wouldn't dare." Well, I did it. He became so furious, he beat me senseless. The next day, I took my broken jaw, black eyes, and 5 teeth (wrapped in a handkerchief) to a lawyer and filed for divorce. The lawyer and my doctor said I was lucky the lunatic didn't kill me.-GRAVEYARD HUMOR
DEAR G.H. Thanks for the eye-opener. And congradulations on walking out before you had to be carried out.

As you can see, this community was not well accepted by these columnist. I wrote these letters word for word from the actual column that I have sitting in front of me. I did not make this up!

 

[BigJim]

BigJim, there was tickling in the quatrains?

No, "Mabus" is apparently the name of the third and final incarnation of the Antichrist, according to interpretation. Problem is that Nostrodamus' words bear as little resemblance to modern French, as the work of Chaucer or Shakespear does to modern English. Given that he also disguised his writings in code, any "translation" has to be considered hypothetical, at best.

 

[mabus]

Yes, BigJim, I'm a fan of Nostrodamus, I just don't believe anything he wrote! It's like, I also love stories and legends about the Illuminati, vampires, monsters, ghosts, but I don't actual believe any of that, because I'm a skeptic.

Nostrodamus's writing were SO vague, they can be interpreted to mean anything. One quatrain was once used to prove four seperate events. I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Another problem with his work is, it's SO vague, it is basically useless! Prophecy must be able to be understood before it can have any purpose.

If I somehow got stuck back in 12th grade, after letting out a few curse words (back then, I never cursed, ever) I would have gotten my classmates attention! Then, I wouldn't tell them "The great lightning will strike the tall pine tree twice before noon, for the needle will soon strike the five pointed star on the parallel of nine," I would say "Holy fuck, I'm back in time! I'm 28 years old! I already graduated from this fucking place! What the hell is going on! But since I'm here, does anyone know who Osama bin Laden is?" They'll all look at me like I have ten heads. "What about Ayman al-Zawahri, or Mullah Omar, the one eyed leader of the Taliban?" They'd really be confused then. Okay, now, at this point, if word got around to the CIA, or reporters, shit would start hitting the fan. It's doubtful in 1993 that a high school student would know who Osama bin Laden is, much less his right hand man and the head of the future Taliban regime. Yet, all those men were alive, and I just gave their EXACT names and descriptions! And I wouldn't give some vague ass quatrain about needles and parallels, I would say, specifically, "Anyone ever been to the World Trade Center? Well, you better go now, because on Tuesday, September 11th, 2001, a man named Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi and 17 other al-Qaeda terrrists are going to hijack American Airlines Flight 11, crash it into the south tower, United Airlines Flight 175, crash it into the north tower, American Airlines Flight 77 and crash it into the Pentagon, and United Airlines Flight 93 was overtaken by the passengers and the plane crashed in a field in Shanksville, Pennslvania. Both towers later collapsed onto the street below, and World Trade Center 7 also collapsed." "President George W. Bush is president, Star Wars Episode I and II came out, and Titanic made the most money in history." Then I'd draw pictures of the attack, and maybe name some characters from Star Wars, but not Jar-jar, because he sucked.

Okay, and that's what prophecy should be like! The bible is a little better than Nostrodamus, because it tell us, if anyone stands in the holy place and declares himself God, the worst sin possible, he's a really bad dude, don't follow him, haul ass out of there, because things are about to heat up. Lets see, who in history has declared themselves God, and what happened to him and his followers, and anyone nearby, but not directly part of the group:
Jim Jones
David Koresh
Enperor of Japan
Adolf Hitler

Hmm, that bible ddn't give specifics, but it was absolutely right philosophically about that whole "declaring yourself God" thing.

If prophecy were more...specific, then I'd believe it.

And actually, it said "soon Mabus would die," and then the Anti-Christ would rise up. So, you all wish me the best of health, TIB, get back to making some DVD's so I have a stress free and healthy life, you other tickling company guys, make some more pantyhose DVD's, encourage me to drive safely and exercise, and don't tell jokes that are so bad, people will want to hurt me!

 

[cecilia]

I don't even think he needs that. I think he just needs to respect and reassure more the one he already has. She's willing, even if she's not 100% one of us. She obviously loves him.

Well...willing or not, she doesn't LIKE it. She isn't even one percent one of us. I don't think they're a good match for eachother if he really likes it and she really dislikes it.
I can't understand how anyone could find being tickled boring. Unpleasant, maybe, if they didn't like it, but boring?

 

[footman25]

Hey Jim,

U started something here mate (ie total digression lol).

With regard to the article destro posted I think the guys depicted are obviously over the top and simply just don't communicate with their partners.

Regarding Nostrodamus,I too have always been a "fan" and by the way at least 50 per cent of what has been translated has already come true (scary eh).The best film based on his writings,if you can get hold of it is "the man who saw tomorrow".It was made in 1988 as far as I remember but various things it predicted near the end came true years later! Of course some could argue it could be interpreted in different ways.

Don't remember anything about tickling and its definitions though hehehe.

By the way Jim how come we never have these debates in our UK TF?

Happy tickling to all,

Footman25.

 

[BigJim]

Well...willing or not, she doesn't LIKE it. She isn't even one percent one of us. I don't think they're a good match for eachother if he really likes it and she really dislikes it.

She didn't say that she hated it, just that she didn't get off on it. If she's willing to join in, so long as he reciprocates, they could theoretically make a go of it.

 

[BigJim]

By the way Jim how come we never have these debates in our UK TF?

Because people only bother posting there about 4 times a week.


Personally I don't have more than a passing interest in Nostrodamus. His writings are too vague and too open to interpretation. If he WAS a prophet of any description, then it wouldn't come as a surprise to me as he was very close to one of the highest families in Europe for many years.

I also love stories and legends about the Illuminati, vampires, monsters, ghosts, but I don't actual believe any of that, because I'm a skeptic.

Skeptic, or debunker? I'm a skeptic, because I don't believe any old crap that comes out of Conspiracy Alley, I have to have firm evidence of it shown to me.