• The TMF is sponsored by Clips4sale - By supporting them, you're supporting us.
  • >>> If you cannot get into your account email me at [email protected] <<<
    Don't forget to include your username

The TMF is sponsored by:

Clips4Sale Banner

Episcopal Church consecrates openly gay bishop

Mimi

1st Level Black Feather
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
8,154
Points
0
DURHAM, New Hampshire (CNN) -- After months of bitter infighting, the Episcopal Church consecrated Rev. Gene Robinson Sunday as bishop of the New Hampshire Diocese — the first openly gay man to reach that level in the church hierarchy and in the Anglican community worldwide.

"You cannot imagine what an honor it is for you to have called me," Robinson preached afterward, on the verge of crying. But he also noted that many people in the church were in "great pain" because of his promotion.

Robinson's selection to be bishop set off anger among church conservatives, who believe that gay and lesbian relationships violate Christian teaching.

In a statement, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Rev. Rowan Williams, warned that divisions created by Robinson's consecration would have "very serious consequences for the cohesion of the Anglican Communion."

However, at the ceremony, bishops lined up to congratulate Robinson. Only a handful of people demonstrated outside the University of New Hampshire sports arena where the consecration was held.

The crowd attending the ceremony at the University of New Hampshire sports arena -- about 4,000-strong, according to The Associated Press -- reacted with laughter when the state's retiring bishop Rev. Douglas Theuner said in his speech that "the disagreement over your election and consecration, Gene, has been labeled by one of your detractors as the defining battle in the war for Anglicanism's soul, the mother of all battles."

"But guess what," Theuner said in a speech interrupted often by applause. "It is not... You are no more or less a child of God like everyone else."

"What a joy it is to have you here," he said, as many bishops hugged Robinson.

Robinson's consecration was preceded by testimonials by diocesan members and other lay and religious leaders.

Before the consecration, Rev. Frank Griswold, presiding bishop of the church, asked if anyone had objections -- a traditional part of the ceremony -- and three people came forward.

Assistant Bishop David Bena of Albany, New York, spoke for 36 opposing bishops in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada, according to The Associated Press.

Reading from a statement, Bena said Robinson's "chosen lifestyle is incompatible with Scripture and the teaching of this church," the AP reported.

Rev. Earle Fox from the Pittsburgh Diocese also objected. "Whatever else homosexual may be, it is a behavior. We are forbidden to judge persons but are allowed to judge behavior," Fox said.

However, Griswold interrupted Fox when he started describing sexual practices he said were common in homosexual relationships. "I plead you spare us these details and come to the substance, please," Griswold told Fox.

A woman from the New Hampshire Diocese called the consecration a "cowardly act" and warned, "If this consecration goes forward, the Anglican [Communion] fabric will be torn."

"We should not go through with this terrible mistake."

Robinson received his bishop's miter from the hands of his partner Mark Andrew during the ceremony.

While he initially appeared to be holding back his tears, toward the end of his consecration Robinson, wearing his golden miter and matching gown looked up toward the public and joined the choir singing "Hallelujah" as the procession of clergymen who took part in the ceremony was leaving the stage.

Robinson will not take over as bishop of the New Hampshire Diocese until the retirement of Theuner next month.

Despite Sunday's ceremony, the statement issued of by the Archbishop of Canterbury indicated that divisions continue within the Anglican community.

"It was recognized fully at last month's meeting of Anglican leaders that the consecration of Gene Robinson as Bishop in New Hampshire would have very serious consequences for the cohesion of the Anglican Communion," the statement said.

"The divisions that are arising are a matter of deep regret; they will be all too visible in the fact that it will not be possible for Gene Robinson's ministry as a bishop to be accepted in every province in the Communion," it concluded.

Under U.S. church law, lay people and clergy in each diocese elect bishops, who are then confirmed by the national convention and consecrated. In August, the Episcopal Church USA, meeting for its General Convention in Minneapolis, voted to ordain Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire.

The Archbishop of Canterbury called a meeting afterward to discuss the action. More than 2,000 Episcopal clergy and parishioners met in Plano, Texas, in October to consider splitting from the Episcopal Church USA.

Robinson told CNN's Susan Candiotti Friday that while he doesn't believe his election will lead to a formal split in the 2.3 million-member U.S. church, there could be difficult times ahead.

Robinson has likened the current turmoil to the furor over women, who are not allowed to be priests in a vast majority of Anglican dioceses around the world.

The Anglican Communion is made up of 38 independent self-governing churches, of which the U.S. Episcopal Church is one. The Communion represents more than 70 million people in over 160 countries.

Courtesy of CNN - Headline News

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I, for one, believe this is a huge step in the right direction. But I must say how disappointed I am with the actions and comments of the opposers to this issue. Isn't one of the biggest teachings in the Bible to "Love thy neighbor"? Sure...love thy neighbor, providing they are not of a different race, creed, or sexual preference. :sowrong:


Mimi
 
*sigh* this just proves the utter stupidity of the bible. Sure, God loves everyone, except for gay people, that is. The teachings contradict themselves so many times it's almost laughable. I don't buy the bible.

(no offense to anyone who believes the teachings of the bible)
 
Last edited:
Congratulations to Rev. Robinson... I've seen myself how hard its been for some of my gay friends to hold any position of responsibility or involvement in some churches (note some churches, not all are closed minded).

*sigh* this just proves the utter stupidity of the bible.

Uhhh... theres too many arguments against this one for me to bother so I'll just go to the next statement.

Sure, God loves everyone, except for gay people, that is. The teachings contradict themselves so many times it's almost laughable.

Actually, God loves every person full stop. I don't know where in the bible it makes an exception to this. And like various other rules in the bible, in our current times they may have little relevance to our current world.

A good example is the 'rule' no sex before marrige. On one hand this could be something that god simply doesn't want you to do.... or it could be a warning because in those days, sex before marrige almost certainly resulted in a bastard child and quite possibly an unclean single mother... which would pretty much be outcast in that society... whereas now, we have controception... and single mothers that have jobs and can support themselves... so a large part of the consequences are gone.

I'm not saying that its right or not... but its an unfortunate fact (one my father being a christian minister for 14 years encountered alot) that when taken out of context... any one can make the bible say whatever the hell they want.

I for one though, don't really think that god cares that much these days about peoples sexual orientation... and besides, if he can still love abortionist, child molestorers and murderers... he has a place for everyone.
 
I went to church again recently, and in the sermon, the priest said that times change, and so do the Catholic church along the way (saying that we can all become saints in our own way too). This may very well be applied here. Big deal he's gay. He's not as bad as those other clergymen who have sex with young children, which is obviously despicable. Somehow gay clergymen or women are a safer bet to take on for the church, I think. Methinks the Anglican church is so ancient, it's afraid of change.

And besides, didn't the somewhat unshockable Jesus Christ himself talked to illegal gamblers and prostitutes on his journeys? He probably would have had time to talk to homosexuals too.
 
chimp -

JC did indeed speak to gamblers and prostitutes during His earthly ministry. but if referring to Him for this purpose, please then also remember what He always would tell those people: "Repent, and sin no more".
 
giggleBaron said:
chimp -

JC did indeed speak to gamblers and prostitutes during His earthly ministry. but if referring to Him for this purpose, please then also remember what He always would tell those people: "Repent, and sin no more".

There you have it- neatly put in a way that all can understand.
 
It seems to me that if Robinson wanted to be a bishop he could have started his own church and allowed gay priests and bishops from the beginning. Why stay and totally ignore the beliefs of fellow anglicans? Just another selfish homosexual.
 
Say Krokus dont disrespect the Bible if you have never read it. I can tell that you have never read it bye you sayin "you are suppossed to love everyone except gay people". It does not say that you should hate gay people. Being gay is a sin. So is lying. I have lied so I am just as guilty before GOD as a gay person. Actually everyone is. "for all have fallen short of the glory of GOD"-the Bible. That doesnt mean we hate gay people. I think that for that gay guy to become a bishop he should have repented. Anyways. When are people going to realize that just because GOD or the Bible (wich is the inspired word of god) doesnt agree with the way you run your life doesnt mean that he is stupid. He created all of us. Can you do that? How can you call your creater stupid because he doesnt agree with you. You are the one that is wrong. Anyways thats all i gotta say.

Nina says meow[when is the hatred gonna stop people hate the church more than any other group of people]

Psycho
 
Psycho said:
Say Krokus dont disrespect the Bible if you have never read it. I can tell that you have never read it bye you sayin "you are suppossed to love everyone except gay people". It does not say that you should hate gay people. Being gay is a sin. So is lying. I have lied so I am just as guilty before GOD as a gay person. Actually everyone is. "for all have fallen short of the glory of GOD"-the Bible. That doesnt mean we hate gay people. I think that for that gay guy to become a bishop he should have repented. Anyways. When are people going to realize that just because GOD or the Bible (wich is the inspired word of god) doesnt agree with the way you run your life doesnt mean that he is stupid. He created all of us. Can you do that? How can you call your creater stupid because he doesnt agree with you. You are the one that is wrong. Anyways thats all i gotta say.

Nina says meow[when is the hatred gonna stop people hate the church more than any other group of people]

Psycho

I think people should have the right to believe whatever they want. People like you are the exact reason I am an atheist...you have the right to believe whatever you want, but don't try to force your believes down my throat. You have the whole "if you do not believe, you are wrong, and will burn in hell forever" mentality...and quite frankly, it's really starting to get old. Being gay is in no way a so called "sin"...It's what people have been TAUGHT is "wrong"...if you are that simple minded, and eat whatever is fed to you, then I guess you can take it as you will. At least, thats my view. I suggest you not be so utterly blinded by your "religous" beliefs.
 
Krokus earlier you said that you believed in GOD but now you say that you are an atheist. Now who is simple minded. I dont try to force you to believe what I believe. It is your choice. You are the one that will go to hell. Actually being gay is a sin. If you read the Bible in Genises or Exedus somewhere it says it. The point I am trying to make is that all people are equal even gays. However sin should be repented from. I have done stuff in my life but i know i am going to heaven because i have been saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. You hate the church. You judged me before you knew me. Let me ask you. Why do you hate the one that made you? Even if you dislike the way the church is run you should try and change it not turn from GOD. The church is a human establishment for and commanded by GOD. So it isnt perfect. You say that the Bible is wrong? Let me ask you who was the first president of the United States? George Washington right? How do you know? Because you read it in a history book? Was anyone alive today alive to see that he was? Then how can you be shure? thats right you believe it cuz why would someone lie about that. is it not the same thing with the Bible? What is the difference? I will tell you what it is. It is because you disagree with it, and admiting that you believe in it would be admitting that you where wrong and wouldnt be able to do the things you do anymore

Psycho
 
Psycho said:
Krokus earlier you said that you believed in GOD but now you say that you are an atheist

Psycho

I was being generous there. Look, I don't hate the church. I disagree with the church. I don't hate god because I don't think god exists. Look who is judging who now? My mother made me. And as for the George Washington comment, it's a hell of alot more believable to believe that a guy named George Washington became the first president of the US then it is to believe that the ocean parted when a guy named moses raised his stick. Bottom line, I don't like the ultra-conservative "believe it or burn" christians. I have nothing against them however, and they have every right to believe what they want. Just don't penalize me for my sexual preference, or my beliefs. You don't know me, and you don't know anything about me, so please refrain.
 
Well believe what you will then. We dont tell people that to penalize them. We tell them that (wich is the truth bye the way)so that they know. If there was a bus headed right towards you I would yell get out of the way. It may save your life or you may not liten to me and get hit but hey i tried. Same thing here. I tried you refuse to believe so burn in peace. When you realize what I say is right it will be to late for you. I am sorry for you.

Psycho
 
May GOD have mercy on your soul my brother. Let it be known that I do not hate you.

Psycho
 
Psycho -

thanks for getting the Lord's saving gospel message out. you have indeed brought glory to His name.

and for those who suggest that the Church and conservative christians are trying to force their beliefs on others, i can not understand how they do not see themselves forcing their anit-biblical agendas into established denominations. the anglican faith disavows homosexuality. to attempt to change that is to force personal social opinion on the church.

the strength of the evil one is made known in these latter days, where truth is painted lies, and lies are held out as truths. everything is made to be relative, and social experimentation is raised to a new religion.

"...the Gospel is the power of God for the salvation of man..."
 
oh Baron, I love your candid truth. Reading that post reminded me of this old Keith Green song I listen to. Here are the lyrics:


No One Believes In Me Anymore



Oh, my job keeps getting easier, as time keeps slipping away,

I can imitate your brightest light and make your night look just like day,

I put some truth in every lie, to tickle itching ears,

You know I'm drawing people just like flies, cause they like what they hear,

I'm gaining power by the hour, they're falling by the score,

You know, it's getting very simple now cause no one believe in me anymore.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, heaven's just a state of mind, my books read on your shelf,

And have you heard that God is dead, I made that one up myself,

They dabble in magic spells, the get their fortunes read,

You know they heard the truth, but turned away and followed me instead,

I used to have to sneak around, but now they just open their doors,

You know, no ones watching for my tricks because no one believes in me anymore.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone likes a winner, with my help, you're guaranteed to win,

And hey man, you're ain't no sinner, you've got the truth within,

And as your life slips by you believe the lie that you did it on your own,

But don't worry, I'll be there to help you share our dark eternal home.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, my job keeps getting easier, as day slips into day,

The magazines, the newspapers, print every word I say,

This world is just my spinning top, it's all like childs-play,

You know, I dream that it will never stop, but I know it's not that way,

Still my work goes on and on, always stronger than before,

I'm gonna make it dark before the dawn since no one believes in me anymore,

Well now I used to have to sneak around, but now they just open their doors,

You know, no one watches for my tricks since no one believes in me anymore,

Well I'm gaining power by the hour, they're falling by the score,

You know, it's getting very easy now since no one believes in me anymore,

No one believes in me anymore, no one believe in me anymore.


Little did Keith know, when he wrote these lyrics in the late 70s the state the world would be in when the next generation listened to them. or, perhaps he Did know. We'll never know, as he was killed in a plane crash in 1982, taking his life and that of 2 of his children.
 
I realize the controversy over Bishop Robinson's consecration is not strictly based on his homosexuality itself but rather the fact that he is in an openly gay relationship, but there is always something that amazes me about the condemnation on homosexuality based on the teachings of religion. Did anyone here choose their sexual preference? Did anyone choose to have a tickling fetish for that matter? Could you, as a straight person, choose to be sexually attracted to a person of the same sex by your own free will? To those who are gay, did you have any choice in the matter of you sexual preference? Can anyone who frequents this forum completely put aside their feelings for tickling?

If, after answering these questions, you determine that you really have no conscious choice in the matter, then why would an all-loving and all-powerful God create someone to be a certain way and then forbid them from acting on their natural desires under penalty of hell-fire? The whole concept seems sort of malevolent to me. This post is not at all meant to be anti-Christian, but merely suggests that maybe some should stop applying biblical teachings to modern society in the context of ancient times.

In a related topic, since the Bible forbids the comsumption of shellfish (Leviticus 11:9-12), does anyone have any information on controversy arising from allegations of shrimp-eating on the part of Episcopal bishops?
 
That is in Leviticus. It was meant as a law for the priests of the tribe of the Levi's. I think but may stand corrected. Not for us today. However. On the subject of being gay by choice. People arent born gay. When they are young something happens and for some reason they become gay. It usually goes into effect when they hit puberty. Like my tickling fetish. I developed it in childhood. When I was about 12 I realized it was a sexual thing. If I read somewhere in the Bible or some scholar pointed it out to me that tickling was wrong then I would stop coming here and stop ingaging in such activity. I may fail I may not. Either way I have sinned. I would still go to heaven because I am saved by the risen Jesus Christ. My point is that if I wanted to be a priest and OPENLY practiced tickling (if it was proven to be a sin in the Bible that is) then I shouldnt be accepted. Let me ask you. If he wasnt gay, but he was a serial killer. Would he still be accepted? There is not difference they are both sins. I do not hate gay people no more then I hate liars or lusters for I have done both of these myself. I dont hate anybody. I do think they sould repent from their sins however. Krokus read just two books in the Bible. (may I suggest Luke, and Danial) If you realy read them with an open mind and try to accept and learn something from them. Then I bet you every dime to my name (that isnt alot but still) that you will believe after that.

Psycho
 
the shellfish prohibition is part of the old testament ceremonial laws, as opposed to the ethical and moral observances. it did apply to all of israel. with Christ having fulfilled the OT laws for us, we are clothed in his perfection and rightiousness. we have freedom in Christ, and are no longer bound to the many ceremonial laws. see also, Acts, Romans, and Hebrews.

if God tells us homosexuality is a sin, and we believe His Word in the bibel, then it must be so. why is someone gay, perhaps even from birth? we live in a fallen creation, where sin and unnatural ways occur. however, God gives us the roadmap for avoiding sin. He wants us to turn to Him for grace and strength to overcome any and all of our sinful nature.
 
giggleBaron said:


if God tells us homosexuality is a sin, and we believe His Word in the bibel, then it must be so. why is someone gay, perhaps even from birth? we live in a fallen creation, where sin and unnatural ways occur. however, God gives us the roadmap for avoiding sin. He wants us to turn to Him for grace and strength to overcome any and all of our sinful nature.

So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that Homosexuals should have to deny who and what they are, and basically live a life of unhappiness just to "turn to him" and overcome our "sinful nature"? Utterly ridiculous. A leopard can't change his skin. He (or she) can deny it for as long as they want(trust me I know) but you can't change it. It's impossible.
 
So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that Homosexuals should have to deny who and what they are, and basically live a life of unhappiness just to "turn to him" and overcome our "sinful nature"? Utterly ridiculous. A leopard can't change his skin. He (or she) can deny it for as long as they want(trust me I know) but you can't change it. It's impossible.


__________________

Well I have read your thread and it is quite interesting, I can tell you about three years ago,I was under the belief that I created my own destiny and no one else. I will stay brief I know I was wrong because He has allowed my eyes and ears to be opened. I wanted to say I agree with you about denying yourself its impossible. In his word he tells us that he will make the change for us,within us. And yet as christians we are askedeveryday to deny our"flesh" and allow the spirit to live within.We are powerless to change our ways but He can and he does.I hope you understand when I say as much as I want to be like christ like I will never make it; and just because someone doesnt believe something isnt true does not make the assertion false.If The bible is not Gods word;then God in that sense is a liar;and if he is a liar my faith is for naught.One final word historical evidence in literature is based on writings from others on that subject.The greater number of writings the closer to being fact is that much more closer I think the Scientific community accepts I believe I am probably off but we will say 100 different works speaking on subject is satisfacory proof of evidence.Shakespeares writings have at leat 2000 different writings it facts to back up his works thats towers over anything close to that number...The bible over 10,000 different writings that validate the authenticity of said book.IF anyone woul have told me 4 yrs ago I would be writing this I would have told them They are crazy. HAve a great Day and God Bless--NO malice with this pen!
Ronnie
 
Krokus said:
So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that Homosexuals should have to deny who and what they are, and basically live a life of unhappiness just to "turn to him" and overcome our "sinful nature"? Utterly ridiculous. A leopard can't change his skin. He (or she) can deny it for as long as they want(trust me I know) but you can't change it. It's impossible.

You are right, it is impossible for us to change. However, God can change us. (Trust me, I know)
 
omega said:
You are right, it is impossible for us to change. However, God can change us. (Trust me, I know)
We change (or rather become what we were meant to be) by allowing God to heal us.
 
to me it doesn't matter if the priest is gay,straight...has three necks or walks backwards on Fridays....i would think that any religion that has clergy would be grateful that a person who has different experiences than others would be willing to join the church as a priest or nun or whatever...since alot of people are deciding not to become priests and nuns...besides god is supposed to be loving, why should he/she/or whatever you believe in or don't... care what sexual orientation the believers are, just be happy that people believe.
 
why yes, Krokus -

you can change your spots. but not by yourself. the Spirit can empower the believer to do God's will.

but clearly we disagree. and thats the wonderful nature of rational human dialogue. so lets agree to disagree.
 
What's New

5/10/2024
Our Welcome forum has a place for you to introduce yourself. Say hello!
Tickle Experiment
Door 44
NEST 2024
Register here
The world's largest online clip store
Live Camgirls!
Live Camgirls
Streaming Videos
Pic of the Week
Pic of the Week
Congratulations to
*** brad1701 ***
The winner of our weekly Trivia, held every Sunday night at 11PM EST in our Chat Room
Back
Top