john getty
2nd Level Red Feather
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Chip on my shoulder? I'd better avoid this thread from now on, my views on religion get MUCH more insulting.
Don't forget Jews and Muslims as well, they worship the same God as Christians. It is the nature of man to disagree on pretty much everything, especially matters of faith. Christianity is not some kind of political movement that seeks to change how you think and make you one of us. Not true Christianity anyway. So your statement here is both ignorant and seems to be borne of a chip on your shoulder. You might reflect on your reasons for thinking this way before you make such statements.
That's the thing about religious people - god always seems to love and hate the exact same things they do!
So what are all those missionaries doing abroad preaching to the poor and destitute, where they hand out Bibles with bread?
Sounds an awful lot like the food-for-oil program that tarnished the former U.N. leader to me....
Obviously you missed the part where I said "true" Christians. But this is digressing into some that belongs in P&R.
Satan is barely mentioned in the Old Testament
Obviously you missed the part where I said "true" Christians. But this is digressing into some that belongs in P&R.
For a touch of humor...
Hey lee' n' lers,
Well, lately I have been making a return to all the things I should be doing, going to church, reading my Bible, etc. I know that the Bible says that is is sinful to lust after the flesh, and in the back of my mind I've always know that, but I guess I'm just now making an upfront connection between that and the foot tickling fetish I have nurtured for so many years. So, there seems to be a major confliction there. I just cannot imagine turning my back on this part of me, to deny it as something shameful. Are there any other christians out here that have gone through or are going through this same thing? Just looking for some input, from anybody really.
What? What about the serpent in Genesis?? Chronicles?
Job? Psalms? Isaiah? Daniel? Jeremiah? Just to name a few?
The thing about Christianity is, even though it's the same religion there are so many different interpretations of the bible by Catholics, Protestants, Mormons etc, and as Christians they disagree with each other, can't they even get their story straight before they start lying to us?
It seems these threads are focused generally on two extremes: atheists and agnostics (most of which were raised in a religious home) and religious people who think they have found the "balance" of fetish and faith to keep from feeling too guilty. I apologize for the length and rambling nature of the following:
The thing is, it's not a black and white issue. Reading and intelligently interpreting the Bible eventually leads to a life decision, but it's not a rulebook. It's not even all about ethics and morality. The "book" is a vast collection of writings over thousands of years made up of every literary genre you can think of (narrative prose, poetry, song lyrics, parable, legal documents, apocalyptic writing, etc). It's a mistake to generalize it by saying things like "It was written by men, God had nothing to do with it," or "God wrote this book for us, he just used the writers as tools." We actually have pretty good copies of the original texts to check newer translations on (and yes, different translations of the Bible can be significantly different), so it makes no sense to say things like "It's based on a culture where science was thought to be from the devil!!" because science wasn't developed until hundreds of years after the Bible was written. If you're reading the bible from a scientific standpoint you've missed the boat already.
Now, more than ever before, people of faith can interpret scripture for themselves both individually and in their communities. Even Catholics have the ability to form their own opinions, whether the top-heavy papacy likes it or not. There's no need to make ad hoc arguments for things like homosexuality and fetishism, because when you study the culture these documents were written in and ignore the "Moral Majority" in the USA, there's really very little in the Bible about such things. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality in the records we have of his teachings (most of his teachings were about the Kingdom of God and taking care of the poor and widows), and other references were made in a society which had no concept of a "sexual orientation." Anal sex in the Old Testament was mostly something one man did to another to shame him after conquering him in battle. In the New Testament time period pederasty was an acceptable relationship in Roman culture, but it wasn't because the men were "gay." It was just what people did.
There is no verse in the Bible that says "Sex before marriage is wrong." In Hebrew culture it was expected that the bride was a virgin, but this was also a time of arranged marriages, so the bride was more of a possession than a person anyway. I suggest finding the "spirit of the law" in instances where a cultural equivalent does not exist today. Who wrote the story/law? What did the story/law mean to the people it was written for? What is the context this passage was written in? When you have an idea to these answers, then you might see how they can speak to you today, rather than blindly cutting and pasting directly from the bible into your 21st century life.
Satan is barely mentioned in the Old Testament; the idea of Hell and the Devil seem to be later developments, probably partially influenced by Greek dualist ideas (if there is an all-good God, there must be an evil counterpart). Satan may also just be a way to personify evil forces. The idea that God is the ultimate love, with infinite grace, yet is somehow unable to forgive people who don't believe in him and pray a certain prayer, and is contractually obligated to send them to Hell is complete nonsense. If you believe in a loving, all-powerful God, remember that He is in control, not some self-contained justice system of sin and punishment that God must submit to.
Yes, in our sexuality, as in all human qualities, there is always the potential for corruption. The world is broken, we see that every day. But drawing lines in the sand over "how far is too far" to balance a spiritual, churchy self with a physical, everyday self creates a false dichotomy. We don't have two distinct natures. There's no "inner battle" going on between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. We're just people, flesh and spirit fused, and God is present in every aspect of our lives. I happen to believe that responding to that love entails a change of heart and a change of lifestyle, but it has nothing to do with hating gays and bombing abortion clinics. If it requires a change in how you understand your tickling fetish, I would think the main question might be "How much power am I giving this fetish over my life?" not "How can I satisfy my desires and still feel holy?"
I'm not perfect either, I've shared in these same struggles of faith, but these are my working conclusions.
The thing about Christianity is, even though it's the same religion there are so many different interpretations of the bible by Catholics, Protestants, Mormons etc, and as Christians they disagree with each other, can't they even get their story straight before they start lying to us?
I agree that there are too many different denominations which clarify what you said about different interpretations. However, there is ONE GOD, who has ONE SON who died for our sins. It took 50-60 lamb skins to put together 1 scroll to document this. How else would they have recorded the evens that have taken place.
Now when you have the original scrolls held in the Vatican, throughout the years, many different nations and kings had their form of control and used religion falsely. I agree on many levels as you that this but there is still one thing that holds true....
There is still only 1 book and while you eat God's food and drive his cars and enjoy breathing his air, remember what i said to you.
that attempts to completely invalidate every piece of scripture not highlighted in red and implies some kind of adversarial relationship between a collection of documents that have been vetted by men inspired by the holy spirit for centuries.
Hey lee' n' lers,
Well, lately I have been making a return to all the things I should be doing, going to church, reading my Bible, etc. I know that the Bible says that is is sinful to lust after the flesh, and in the back of my mind I've always know that, but I guess I'm just now making an upfront connection between that and the foot tickling fetish I have nurtured for so many years. So, there seems to be a major confliction there. I just cannot imagine turning my back on this part of me, to deny it as something shameful. Are there any other christians out here that have gone through or are going through this same thing? Just looking for some input, from anybody really.