Google Stalking Thread on General Nuked?

[Icycle]

Second thing. We seem to have this discussion every time a long thread does get pulled for one reason or another. We say the same things, we explain the same policies, and then have to do it all over again the next time. Those of you who have been around for awhile know the drill. We Mods are few. The Forum is very large. Our time is often limited. We make mistakes. (I'm not saying a mistake was made in this instance, far from it. What was done was done for good reason.)

I'm still a relative newbie around here, having been only posting for a bit less than a year, so I haven't really been involved in this discussion before.

I really do understand that there are very few moderators for a very large forum. And I do understand that it is a hard job to keep things from decending into a morass of flamewars.

As for this particular thread, I will have to take your word for it that it deserved to be pulled (or at least parts of it), since I never saw the part where it truly decended into chaos.

However, I still strongly feel like pulling a thread is a nuclear option that should only be used very rarely and as a last resort. It feels a bit like the "memory hole" from 1984. I put a lot of thought, care, and research into each of my posts, and it is very upsetting when they vanish without a trace. It's a like a little floppy disk with the only copy of my essays has been run over with a magnet. Can't we consider less destructive options, like locking the thread temporarily or permanently? Would have a few more volunteer moderators help out?

The topic of large threads with flaming in them being removed gets revisited quite often. Here's the bottom line. If it benefits the Forum as a whole to have something like that removed (and this is after all other avenues have been exhausted), it simply has to be that way. In this instance, didn't those who were involved in the thread get just about everything they were going to get out of it? It seemed to be about six or seven people involved. Out of the whole Forum. Yes, it was initially beneficial...and I think the benefit exhausted itself once the "Fuck You"s started flying.

I feel like a thread has benefit not only in the moment as part of an ongoing discussion. I also feel like it has benefit as a historical record. I do occasionally look at the past posting histories of various TMF members to see what they are like, what kinds of thing they like to talk about, what their opinions are on various topics, how they write, etc. When a thread is deleted, it leaves important gaps in the historical record.

For the current thread in question, sure there were perhaps six or eight highly active participants in the discussion, but based on the number of views of the thread, there were probably a large number of lurkers as well. And if the thread is revived, who knows how many people would access the posts in the thread when viewing peoples posting histories, or searching the forum?

I wouldn't go quite as far as sabaki in supporting unfettered free speech on the forums. I would certainly support removing outright profanity, direct insults, and outright flames. But I really don't want to have to throw out the 90%+ of good, productive discussion with those few offensive posts.

We will always try to do the best we can when it comes to leaving threads intact. But, we will never discourage people from reporting posts they feel need Moderator attention, as some have suggested in one way or another. This allows the community to help police itself when our small numbers are occasionaly overwhelmed. If you look at the boards across the Internet, I think we do a pretty good job of balancing Forum control with member freedoms. And regardless of what people may tell you, it's a constant fine line to walk.

As someone who posts relatively few posts, but puts a lot of thought and effort into each one, I have to admit, I do have reservations about reporting a violation to a moderator for a thread in which I am participating. If deleting the thread is a possibility, I would rather hope that the offense goes unnnoticed and unreported, that have all of my hard work wiped out. Or worse yet, I might be tempted to simply not bother posting thoughtful posts, or posting on controversial topics, because why bother spending the time if it's just going to get removed?

 

[sabaki]

I wouldn't go quite as far as sabaki in supporting unfettered free speech on the forums. I would certainly support removing outright profanity, direct insults, and outright flames.

*double take* Er, uh, what?

No, just to be clear, I am for removing posts in a number of instances: if they are insults that are totally off-topic and thus whose removal would not harm context; if they are libel, and thus likely to continue to misinform as long as they stand; if they are complete gibberish, and thus a waste of data storage.

Even if it's removed, IMO, some placeholder should remain so we can see that the person said it. I completely agree with your image of the memory hole, and about the importance of keeping a record.

Not that my opinion matters at all, nor do I claim it should (since I'm not paying for the TMF) -- I just wanted to be clear.

 

[LindyHopper]

The thread was reported by numerous forum members within a very short amount of time. I was the only moderator online when they came in, and I only had a short window to deal with it before having to leave the house. The final page of the thread alone when I took it down was filled with flaming and cussing and insults being thrown in every direction, and very little actual discussion was taking place at that time. I felt something had to be done quickly before it escalated even further out of control, and a full edit to the entire thread would have taken a considerable amount of time which I did not have when I reached it. So I pulled it down and left it to be discussed among the staff on what the best way to handle the thread would be. Not enough of the staff has been able to weigh in just yet, so nothing had been done with it yet.

Thank you for the explanation, Mimi, and for your effort in cleaning up the thread. I'd missed the entirety of the ugliness you describe on the last page. It sounds like a lot of us did.

As a matter of future practice, when temporarily removing a problem thread, would it make sense to start a new thread in the same forum titled something like, "Google stalker thread temporarily removed, pending moderation" (locked to any replies, of course )? This Suggestions thread, and all the next page of discussion, only happened because people were confused and frustrated that they didn't know what was going on. A placeholder with a one-line explanation for what happened to the thread would save you the trouble of having to come over here and deal with the confusion, in addition to the actual problem.

If many of you truly feel the thread was of merit and a good discussion was taking place, I will go in and edit out all posts containing flames and heated attacks and then return it to the general discussion forum. If I do so, however, and it begins to fill up once more with the same cuss filled garbage that I yanked it for this morning, I will take it down again without question and will not be returning it. I suggest those of you who were unable to control yourselves from spewing flames across the thread the first time around gain better control of your tempers and learn to debate with a bit more tact this time around for the benefit of all involved in the discussion.

Thank you again for your effort in editing out the flames. Nevertheless, I still feel uncomfortable that if the same people start flaming again, the whole thread will be removed, again, this time permanently. The people who were posting politely and constructively will be no more at fault the second time around than they were the first time, and they will still have their meaningful contributions deleted as a result of other people's irresponsibility.

The topic of large threads with flaming in them being removed gets revisited quite often. Here's the bottom line. If it benefits the Forum as a whole to have something like that removed (and this is after all other avenues have been exhausted), it simply has to be that way. In this instance, didn't those who were involved in the thread get just about everything they were going to get out of it? It seemed to be about six or seven people involved. Out of the whole Forum. Yes, it was initially beneficial...and I think the benefit exhausted itself once the "Fuck You"s started flying.

I understand and agree with the general policy. And I agree that the profanity added no benefit to the discussion. However, I don't believe it erased the benefit of the rest of the thread. No matter what happened on page 6, the start of the thread was a useful public service announcement, and a productive discussion about risk assessment. Those things would still be true if someone stumbed across this thread and started reading it a year from now.

Thus, I believe the preferred course of action, in nearly all cases, would be to delete the offending posts, and then lock the thread. That preserves the quality content up to that point, and eliminates the possibility that any more flames can be spread on that thread. In fact, in this particular situation, I would vote for locking, because as you observed, most of us have already said what we wanted to say. And then I wouldn't have to worry that the same troublemakers are going to start up again, leading to the permanent removal of the content that I've been lobbying to protect.

Once again, thank you for all your time and effort. It does not go unappreciated.

 

[simulated]

Look at me, look at me, look at me!

*slap*

 

[Cid]

The original posters intent went unappreciated, the so called SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT went unappreciated until you found your so called INTELLEGENT POSTS no longer in their place. That's why the first few posts were filled with sarcasm. You know trolls don't always have to use swearing, or be insulting. You only considered me a troll because I hurt your wee feelings, but in all honesty I couldn't care less. Like you said Lindy I said what I wanted to say, just because YOU or REDMAGE, or anyone else consider me a troll doesn't mean I didn't make valid points. You see it was the parting of the ocean, the trembling of the earth, or the booming sounds of thunder that drew me to this post after Redmage posted, I saw the word Google and a smile cracked my lips. It looked like this.

I found it funny you guys cry about insults when you were throwing around quiet a few yourselves. That troll, and newbie thing hurt my feelings. I mean it... there could have been tears. lol.

If the original post is resurrected I have every intention to post, and I don't plan on backing down.

 

[LindyHopper]

I wasn't the only one using naughty words. So if you want to point fingers at the trouble causers I suggest you stand in front of a mirror while doing it. I'm not the only one who caused that thread to be deleted, we ALL played a part in that.

I have to respectfully disagree. I've been posting on controversial topics since I first arrived at the TMF, and to the best of my knowledge, I've never had a post edited or removed by a moderator. This remains true on the Google stalking thread - all of my posts remain untouched. You may not have been the only one using profanity, but it is inaccurate to say that we all were responsible for what happened.

In contrast, as of this moment, you have posted 86 times, and only 29 remain standing. I've also seen enough of these posts, before they were deleted, to have some idea of why they were removed. To me, this indicates that you're consistently looking for trouble, or at least are awfully good at finding it: hence, "troll." I apologize if the label seems harsh, but you oughtn't blame me for the way you are being perceived, as it is based on your own actions, and nothing else.

Oh and incase anyones curious I'm 25% newbie, and 3% troll. I say what people wish they had the nerve to say.

Based on the data I've cited above, it appears to be more like 66% troll. But in all seriousness, I appreciate your desire to express yourself honestly. Nevertheless - and I say this not to be hurtful, but only to help - if you're going to make a worthwhile contribution to this forum, you're going to need to learn to rein yourself in. It is possible to express your ideas in a powerful manner without resorting to profanity and personal attacks. It takes a little practice (or a lot), but it's well worth doing. I hope you'll consider it.

 

[Cid]

I have to respectfully disagree. I've been posting on controversial topics since I first arrived at the TMF, and to the best of my knowledge, I've never had a post edited or removed by a moderator. This remains true on the Google stalking thread - all of my posts remain untouched. You may not have been the only one using profanity, but it is inaccurate to say that we all were responsible for what happened.

In contrast, as of this moment, you have posted 86 times, and only 29 remain standing. I've also seen enough of these posts, before they were deleted, to have some idea of why they were removed. To me, this indicates that you're consistently looking for trouble, or at least are awfully good at finding it: hence, "troll." I apologize if the label seems harsh, but you oughtn't blame me for the way you are being perceived, as it is based on your own actions, and nothing else.


Based on the data I've cited above, it appears to be more like 66% troll. But in all seriousness, I appreciate your desire to express yourself honestly. Nevertheless - and I say this not to be hurtful, but only to help - if you're going to make a worthwhile contribution to this forum, you're going to need to learn to rein yourself in. It is possible to express your ideas in a powerful manner without resorting to profanity and personal attacks. It takes a little practice (or a lot), but it's well worth doing. I hope you'll consider it.

I've been around since 2001 and until this very user name I haven't had any of my posts deleted as well. And with all due respect I couldn't really care less what your opinion on me is. You might not say anything harsh enough to get your posts deleted, but you are no less a troll than I am. The only difference between me and you is your clique. I said something against Redmage, and his clique came to his defense. Hell look at what simulated said. If this guy had posted in that thread you wouldn't even bat an eyelash, Viper told everyone who agreed with me paranoid, yet I'm labeled the Troll.

You think your posting thought provoking posts, but it's merely you repeating everything Redmage says, your a parrot nothing more. Redmage has a funny way of thinking. He opens his mouth and nothing but truths spill forth, you agree, and so does Icycle. But not because he's right, hell you might even disagree, but you stand up for him for one simple reason. And we both know that reason don't we?

I've seen Redmage's posts in the past I know how he works. If I was calm and collective he would have been more sarcastic and rude, if I had been rude myself he would have taken the moral high road. Which he did, YOU said what he couldn't. I also noticed he had a funny way of dismissing certain things, and ignoring other facts. And we all know why, I'm not the only one saying this about him, you, or Icycle. So this isn't just one guy making trouble, this is one guy stating the obvious. Or beating a dead horse as it were.

You ALL are just as responsible for that post being deleted than I was. I know this little thread, you mention me, it all stems from several factors not just what I said. Viper was more the troll than I was, you probably even consider what I'm saying here as trolling.

You call me a newbie as well, I'm wondering what exactly makes me a newbie? I don't have as many posts as you? Or this username isn't as old as yours? Is that what makes me a newbie?

 

[simulated]

Hell look at what simulated said. If this guy had posted in that thread you wouldn't even bat an eyelash,

Probably not, no. The world just isn't fair.

You think your posting thought provoking posts, but it's merely you repeating everything Redmage says, your a parrot nothing more.

You obviously haven't known the woman for that long

Redmage has a funny way of thinking. He opens his mouth and nothing but truths spill forth

I'm glad you noticed, thats why I like him too.

you stand up for him for one simple reason. And we both know that reason don't we?

Because they're both well read, intelligent individuals

I also noticed he had a funny way of dismissing certain things, and ignoring other facts. And we all know why, I'm not the only one saying this about him, you, or Icycle. So this isn't just one guy making trouble, this is one guy stating the obvious. Or beating a dead horse as it were.

You and drew could start a fan club!

You ALL are just as responsible for that post being deleted than I was.

Not true. If you hadn't posted at all in that thread, it would have never devolved into the state it did.

you probably even consider what I'm saying here as trolling.

No, this is the best you've done since the start of the other thread. It's ok to be wrong, just be respecful about it.

You call me a newbie as well, I'm wondering what exactly makes me a newbie? I don't have as many posts as you? Or this username isn't as old as yours? Is that what makes me a newbie?

The correct term would probably be noob, actually, though that convention doesn't seem to be followed here. Your inability to grasp the finer points of the issue, combined with (iirc) gratuitous use of the SHIFT KEY and a debating style which brings to mind images of a drunken irishman are what made you the noob in that thread.

 

[Cid]

Sorry... But I'm not going to bother reading your post. You see your a troll, and trolls are ignored.

 

[Cid]

Are you waiting for me to say something? OR are you waiting for someone? Lindy? Icy? Can't say anything without more members of your clique?

Oh! And you should be ashamed to let someone like Simulated stand up for you. He's breaking your rules. The ones you like to break on ocassion

 

[Cid]

Just us Icycle. You started it... Got enough gull to finish it?

 

[Myriads]

The behavior directly above is a good example of what we here on the TMF call trolling. Don't do it. It's a GR violation.

The user has been banned from GenDis as a result of it. This is due to repeated violations. His sockpuppet will get a similar ban if it starts to act the same.

Further personal attacks in this thread will end up in more bans as needed. I suggest moving on.

Myriads

 

[Cid]

Well this post was directed not only towards the deletion of said post, but me as well. Excuse me if I did exactly what was expected. I'm sure what you said Myriads was directed directly at me, if you wish to ban me do so, but don't pretend I'm the only one at fault.

 

[simulated]

The behavior directly above is a good example of what we here on the TMF call trolling. Don't do it. It's a GR violation.

The user has been banned from GenDis as a result of it. This is due to repeated violations. His sockpuppet will get a similar ban if it starts to act the same.

Further personal attacks in this thread will end up in more bans as needed. I suggest moving on.

Myriads

 

[LindyHopper]

The behavior directly above is a good example of what we here on the TMF call trolling. Don't do it. It's a GR violation.

The user has been banned from GenDis as a result of it. This is due to repeated violations. His sockpuppet will get a similar ban if it starts to act the same.

Further personal attacks in this thread will end up in more bans as needed. I suggest moving on.

Myriads

Thank you for taking action on this matter. It's gratifying to be able to trust our moderators to see a situation for what it really is.

I do have a question though. A longtime TMF member created "Cid" for the express purpose of spreading a great deal of hostility without endangering his own "good" name. And he has used similar strategies several times in the past. Given that you know who it is, and that "Cid" is merely an false face for him, why do you ban the puppet, and not the puppetmaster?

I'm not asking for anything to happen here, I'm really just curious. It seems to me like the policy of banning the mask instead of the human being behind it would only feed into his Multiple Personality Disorder.

Once again, thank you for your prompt attention to a pretty crazy situation.

LindyHopper

 

[Cid]

I ain't petty. But I'm through here.

 

[Myriads]

When I issue a ban it's always a last resort solution.

Linking puppets to accounts is more an art then a science. Unless I feel very confident that two accounts are linked I will not issue multiple bans. I'd rather err on allowing annoyance, then knocking out someone accidently.

However socks often cause me to step up to high level IP bans that shut off providers if the accounts cause enough issues, having the side effect of clocking all the socks co-accounts.

I'll add that engaging in debate with such accounts does not help us at all, and increases our workload. Ignore them.

Myriads

 

[Speedbump]

Hi guys.

 

[Cid]

The list of threats here prove how low these people will sink to protect these people. And not only that, but prominant members of the TMF, who are loved and worshiped are the ones who spouted these threats. And as childish as these threats are, how sad and pathetic they are, people still stand by these guys. The threat about the "Connections" are being spouted by an old man who honestly believes he has the power to have people thrown off the internet. Not the TMF, but the internet as a whole! Can you believe that? I mean the story section itself is filled with swearing, and acts of forced orgasms, yet I say a few things against this guy and now I have the internet police breathing down my neck. He said when he first issued this threat I would be off in a few weeks. 2 to be exact. Well here I am! He said he had others thrown off the internet, yet they are still here. Yet he's popular on this site, I made sure everyone saw his threats, yet I still remained the troll. And the threat about the mafia? I remember in grade school that used to be a threat amongst us kids, that and "My dad's going to come to school and beat you up." That one was scarier than the mafia threat. Yet I remained the troll.

Yet! I'm getting IM's from people who agree with me. I've gotten IM's from people who agree with me on each, and every post I've made.

Is there something that happens on the TMF that effects people this much? To make people think they have so much power, so much control! Or is it sad people going to another site on the internet? People look their noses down at me because they don't like what I have to say. Well all I can say is too bad.

That's all I have to say for now.

 

[Cid]

Oh I reported them. But it was just a waste of time, a waste of my time to do so. Actually I wouldn't mind hearing why these guys and gals used those kinds of threats against me.

And why one of those old timers still hold by it. Like the connections thing. He said I'm being investigated, how many people in the world are there that use the internet? Millions? Billions? And if people were really being investigated online why are they only investigated people who swear in a PM and in threads on a fetish site dedicated to tickling? The world we live in shows there are more important things to investigate than a few cussers on a fetish site. Secondly if such an organization exsists, and people could complain about the swearing online wouldn't it take years to investigate me? I mean wouldn't billions of people be ahead of me? Or does his connections go straight to the top? lol. Lastly if people were investigated so quickly as this guy implies than wouldn't the internet be a pretty scarce place to be in? And secondly do you think any of us would still be here on the TMF?

My last question goes to this man... If I actually believed this crap, and I stayed away from the TMF and I found myself still online, than what would you have accomplished? Keeping me away for a few months? Next time you threaten someone, and that goes to the chick who threatened me with the mafia, make sure your threats have a little weight behind them. Don't BS me thinking I'm stupid. You might think of me as a troll, but I'm not a stupid troll.

In case anyones wondering I did press these questions to this man, and he couldn't answer. He actually refused to answer. It was so sad and pathetic. I actually feel sorry for this elderly old fart who has to make threats like this just to feel important.

 

[ChosenofMystra]

I agree about the clique thing going on here. If you're not with the "in" crowd or if you're friends with someone the clique doesn't like, then you're not worth talking to. Its one of the reasons I don't come here much these days, I got tired of the high and mighty attitude and realized I wasn't having fun anymore having to choose between friends. Its a load of bull to be honest.

 

[Cid]

I agree about the clique thing going on here. If you're not with the "in" crowd or if you're friends with someone the clique doesn't like, then you're not worth talking to. Its one of the reasons I don't come here much these days, I got tired of the high and mighty attitude and realized I wasn't having fun anymore having to choose between friends. Its a load of bull to be honest.

The sad thing is it doesn't matter how low these people sink, and sad and pathetic they seem they will still be held in the lime light. People will jump at every opportunity they can to protect these people. Your right, I came here 2001 had no problems because I didn't stick my neck out, and the second I do the people I used to admire show their true colors. The guy who threatened me with his connections. I liked that guy, and the girl with her mafia. Heck I looked at her like she was someone famous on the site, but the second I said something they didn't like I suddenly became a troll. Is there a difference between them and me? Aren't they just members like the rest of us? Well apparently they aren't.

Your right though, the TMF has become a pretty bad place to come to, but thankfully there are enough forums out there that we can go to and enjoy. In my opinion Tickling Theater is a lot better than the TMF. I don't know if they were around longer or not, but it doesn't matter, I think they are better. A lot friendlier, and I also think the mods and admins are impartial there as well. Where a blind eye isn't turned to certain members, members who can say and do as they damn well please.

Here's a great point, everyone knows the first post I posted on. I'm sure most of you have done enough checks on me to find out all you can on me. That guy created a thread in the tickling discussion, and it belonged in the personals. I'm not sure how long it stayed there, but that's not the point. 5 posts around it had been moved because they were in the wrong section of the site, yet that remained. So... the question is is why? Some one made the excuse that the personal section didn't get as much action as someone would hope, but that didn't make it alright for the member, or members who had created those 5 posts that were moved.

Look at this thread here. Everyone mentioned me, not by name until the very end. And yet it's ok. What I said was considered trolling, what everyone else did was considered... noble? What? I don't get it. I really don't. Heck I have friends tell me they received pm's by people until they mentioned they agreed with what I said, suddenly those members became defensive and didn't send any more.

Heck I'm not saying it's all about me, it's only coming down on me. The proof is here. The proof is coming from those people brave enough to say 'Hey we know this site is controlled by cliques.' And the proof is always down at the bottom of the main page. I find it funny when there are 400 members online next to 700 guests. I'm thinking we might have 1100 members if we didn't let this site be controlled by cliques. Do you guys even wonder what kind of people your keeping from posting with your cliques? What kind of brilliant writers, artists, movie makers, or even someone who might have something important to say. No. Well if everyone was forced to follow the rules, if everyone was treated equally.

Wild fantasy I know...

Well I'm done for now.

 

[Iggy pop]

The list of threats here prove how low these people will sink to protect these people. And not only that, but prominant members of the TMF, who are loved and worshiped are the ones who spouted these threats. And as childish as these threats are, how sad and pathetic they are, people still stand by these guys. The threat about the "Connections" are being spouted by an old man who honestly believes he has the power to have people thrown off the internet. Not the TMF, but the internet as a whole! Can you believe that? I mean the story section itself is filled with swearing, and acts of forced orgasms, yet I say a few things against this guy and now I have the internet police breathing down my neck. He said when he first issued this threat I would be off in a few weeks. 2 to be exact. Well here I am! He said he had others thrown off the internet, yet they are still here. Yet he's popular on this site, I made sure everyone saw his threats, yet I still remained the troll. And the threat about the mafia? I remember in grade school that used to be a threat amongst us kids, that and "My dad's going to come to school and beat you up." That one was scarier than the mafia threat. Yet I remained the troll.

Yet! I'm getting IM's from people who agree with me. I've gotten IM's from people who agree with me on each, and every post I've made.

Is there something that happens on the TMF that effects people this much? To make people think they have so much power, so much control! Or is it sad people going to another site on the internet? People look their noses down at me because they don't like what I have to say. Well all I can say is too bad.

That's all I have to say for now.

I have to be honest, I have trouble believing this. I have disagreed with tons of people on this forum, and I have only been threatned once. A guy once told me he was going to come over and kick my ass. Long story short: He didn't come over and kick my ass. Now, I have had people call me names and infer stuff about me, but mafia threats never. I have never heard of anyone getting mafia threats before. Do you have any proof? If you do then forward it to a moderator.

 

[Cid]

I have to be honest, I have trouble believing this. I have disagreed with tons of people on this forum, and I have only been threatned once. A guy once told me he was going to come over and kick my ass. Long story short: He didn't come over and kick my ass. Now, I have had people call me names and infer stuff about me, but mafia threats never. I have never heard of anyone getting mafia threats before. Do you have any proof? If you do then forward it to a moderator.

Proof I have, and proof admins have recieved.

 

[Myriads]

Clarifications:

Cid was banned from P&R not for his actions in one thread, but for an over all pattern of being unable to conduct debate with fellow members over points. He would quickly move to personal attacks, rather then debating the point. Once you start insulting other members in open threads on a regular and consistant basis it's pretty much going to end in a ban if the user will not self-correct.

Here we have a statement, debate the point not the person. Once a 'debate' drops to the personal level it stops being of value, and is simply a slugging match that brings nothing. Users who do this and will not stop after warnings tend to get banned. This is the case that happened here.

None of the PM's presented to me in the above mentioned matter were actionable in my opinion. I suggeted to the user that he place the other user on his ignore list as we always do when such low level PM slap fights seem to happen. I saw no threat of physcial harm being made. I have no idea where the mafia comments have arisen from. I've seen no PM's that refrence mafia action.

I offer an open invitation to any and all of Cid's many supporters who have PM'ed him to drop me a PM and show me their support of him. Or if Cid wishes he can authorise me to log into his account and look at his saved PM files myself to withness the support Or he can foprward sid messages to me. If this issue is indeed as large as he feels, then seeing such material would be highly useful to me in understanding and correcting the issue here.

As for the 'clique' aspect of things, I assume you are speaking about the General discussion, P&R and other general Non-TK forums?

These community forum areas have always, and always will be the focus of social networking. People who spend more time there, and have more outgoing personalities will be known there, and thus carry more weight when they post, if only in the getting of eyeballs department. It's how social forum systems work across the web. It's popularity and volume based.

I don't see this issue in the tickling related forums here. People post media, and it sure seems to get looked at. People ask questions on Tickling Discussion and people seem to answer them. The areas of the TMF that are tickling oriented seem to function pretty well in my opinion. So if you are here to look at material and discuss your fetish then it seems you get a pretty fair hearing.

If it's to social network, then like in any social situation, it's harder to get your foot in the door and meet the 'group'. But I see new people fitting in and making lots of posts, and seeing lots of response all the time, so it does not seem that the clubhouse is closed. It just takes some work.

Myriads