Homosexuality: to varying degrees

[ViperGTS]

Simple curiosity has inspired me to write this post.

I know many gay and bi-sexual people, from the curious and unsure to the flamingly, unbridling, over-the-top queers, and they are all good friends. Now, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and lifestyle choices, so I am never one to judge or look down upon any decisions like this.

However, I have had the fortune to never have personally come across any gay people who had an intense dislike for the other sex, they're just not interested in them romantically or sexually. I know that these people exist (some hard-core feminists and lesbians), and I don't understand why they dislike or hate the other sex, but again, to each their own.

My question is this: Have you ever encountered anyone who, at some point in their lives, had such a bad (or multiple) experience(s) with the other sex that they were actually afraid of them? As in, actually being scared or terrified of men (if you're female) or women (if you're male)?

 

[taptoematt]

I've never known anyone to be "afraid " of the opposite sex, but I do have a female friend, who is also a ler of mine , who is somehow continuously pissed off at all men for what happened in a relationship in the past.
I think she really enjoys torturing me to vent her aggressions towards men.

 

[ViperGTS]

Sounds like you got a lucky break! XD

 

[LD_Tickler]

Simple curiosity has inspired me to write this post.

I know many gay and bi-sexual people, from the curious and unsure to the flamingly, unbridling, over-the-top queers, and they are all good friends. Now, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and lifestyle choices, so I am never one to judge or look down upon any decisions like this.

However, I have had the fortune to never have personally come across any gay people who had an intense dislike for the other sex, they're just not interested in them romantically or sexually. I know that these people exist (some hard-core feminists and lesbians), and I don't understand why they dislike or hate the other sex, but again, to each their own.

My question is this: Have you ever encountered anyone who, at some point in their lives, had such a bad (or multiple) experience(s) with the other sex that they were actually afraid of them? As in, actually being scared or terrified of men (if you're female) or women (if you're male)?

I think you're conflating sexual orientation and sexism. Hating or fearing the other gender is not, as you seem to be suggesting, an extreme progression down the homosexual path. It's unrelated.

Think of straight men who hate women, true male chauvinists. They exist, of course. I don't see how the idea of profoundly hating or fearing the opposite gender has anything to do with sexual orientation.

 

[ViperGTS]

I ask questions because I do not know. The reason I associated the two is because the person whom I crossed paths with who hates and fears the other sex is strongly and undeniably homosexual.

 

[LD_Tickler]

I ask questions because I do not know. The reason I associated the two is because the person whom I crossed paths with who hates and fears the other sex is strongly and undeniably homosexual.

Chalk it up to coincidence. The most woman hating guy I know was quite hetero. A friend of mine who slept with him once told me he shouted "die!" at her as they had sex.

Kudos for inquiring, though my answer is to guard against assuming that attraction to one gender has anything to do with a hatred for the other gender.

 

[xSamanthax]

My question is this: Have you ever encountered anyone who, at some point in their lives, had such a bad (or multiple) experience(s) with the other sex that they were actually afraid of them? As in, actually being scared or terrified of men (if you're female) or women (if you're male)?

Yes, myself at one point in time for starters (although I am not gay, but rather bi). That's been a very long journey to learn not to judge people in the present based on the actions of the people in the past. Oddly enough, it was a man who had the patience to help me learn this. So I married him, lol. Men in general still tend to make me very nervous until I get to know them, or unless I have a protector around.

I do know of one lesbian in our circle of friends who is so frightened of penises (not sure if that extends to the men they are attached to) that she cried when her girlfriend tried to introduce a strap on. To her, penetration is an utter and complete violation.

And have met plenty of others who "switched sides" after repeated abusive relationships.

Not sure if that answers your question?? But there it is. =)

 

[xSamanthax]

Oh I forgot to add...

I think there is a connection between what you observe and how the person *identifies* their orientation. I do not think what you observe is complete coincidence in all cases, but I also don't think that bad experiences with men can "make you a lesbian".

What I mean is that I *identified* as lesbian for a while - even though I was actually bisexual in orientation. That identification (rather than the orientation itself) was directly related to my experiences with men in the past. The orientation of bi existed before I had good or bad experiences with anyone.

Does that make any sense???

 

[ViperGTS]

Hm. Interesting. Thanks for the input.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

There are a variety of reasons why someone may hate or fear those of the opposite sex. But, as has been said, it's just coincidence that one happens to be homosexual. Though some things can affect the way we express ourselves one way or another, past experiences do not make someone either straight or homosexual.

OTOH, I do know a couple lesbian women who hate men for constantly treating them like meat and insisting that, if they just had them, they'd change their minds and go straight. Sad but true. But, it still didn't play into their orientation.

 

[sasaxrah]

The man my grandmother married after my grandfather passed hates all black people because 40 years ago a black person mugged his son. Some people have a bad experience with one person and generalize to such a degree that they cannot deal with anyone who is like the original offender. It's sexism, racism, etc.

I identified as gay for years before coming to my identity as bisexual, so I speak with a decent amount of experience here. I think this myth of the "man-hating lesbian" is vastly overstated in our culture. I have known many many lesbians. Not a one hated men. They just didn't need them. I think our male-dominant culture is threatened by the idea that a woman could actually not need a man.

There was some wave of lesbian feminism in the past (I wanna say in the 70's or 80's? I should know my dyke history better) that said that men were the root of all the world's ills, and they wanted to create male-free communities. I saw a piece in the NY Times a month ago about one such community that has all old gay women, and they were saying they didn't think the community could survive. I have never personally seen this sentiment expressed.

 

[Perduabo]

Speaking as a gay man, I can say that I have equal amounts of both male and female friends , whom all I cherish.

But I don't think that's what you meant is it?

I'm not afraid or nauseated by the female anatomy. I won't go running out of a room or shield my eyes if a pair of breast or a vagina were to appear on a movie. Hell, I've even accompanied my friend to a strip club for his bachelor party and enjoyed myself just as much as anyone else there (just no lap dances for me lol)

I'm just not sexually attracted to females, or their genitals. I don't find them fascinating in the least; but its not like I'm a vampire and breasts and vaginas are crucifixes and garlic; its just something I see nothing to get excited over.

Hope that helped/made sense.

 

[chicago]

I think it goes both ways.

I mean, in terms of women being afraid of men, well it seems men tend to make up the majority in terms of sexual predators and rapists. I have yet to hear a story about a woman raping a man. So I could understand if something like that happened more than once to a woman, that they would develop a bit of a phobia.

On the flip side, I have heard of many cases where men seem to be afraid of women. Not that they will be physically injured or harmed, but emotionally, mentally, etc. Many men, even on this very site, are intimidated by women to the point that they would rather spend their lives alone versus strike up a conversation or ask out a woman.

 

[Illtcklu]

I knew a woman who became a lesbian after her husband treated her like shit and then just up and left her in the middle of the night literally!!! Because of that she said she could never trust another man, but I wouldn't have called her a man hater she was friendly to men, just had no trust with them. I don't know if this really answers your question or not Viper?

 

[kis123]

I think you're conflating sexual orientation and sexism. Hating or fearing the other gender is not, as you seem to be suggesting, an extreme progression down the homosexual path. It's unrelated.

Think of straight men who hate women, true male chauvinists. They exist, of course. I don't see how the idea of profoundly hating or fearing the opposite gender has anything to do with sexual orientation.

This is not completely true. I know my share of women that because of horrible experiences with men, they now are with women. I have one person in my family (actually step-family) that because she was repeatedly raped by another family member, she is gay. She has two children that someone had to raise because she literally flipped out. It does happen. I won't say it happens often, but it does happen.

And I can tell you of a bunch of straight women-haters who only see a woman as a means to his end. I even dated a couple; it's not a fun thing to experience, trust me.

 

[xSamanthax]

Kis,

I don't think you can draw a direct cause/effect relationship there. There is obviously a connection, but I don't know that we can say that abuse "made" some one gay. Chances are, these women had bisexual or homosexual tendencies (latent or otherwise) all along.

Even if that isn't the case, "gay" isn't simply the gender you sleep with. There are a lot gay men who marry straight women and raise a family and live outwardly hetero lives. Doesn't make them straight, does it?

 

[kis123]

Kis,

I don't think you can draw a direct cause/effect relationship there. There is obviously a connection, but I don't know that we can say that abuse "made" some one gay. Chances are, these women had bisexual or homosexual tendencies (latent or otherwise) all along.

Even if that isn't the case, "gay" isn't simply the gender you sleep with. There are a lot gay men who marry straight women and raise a family and live outwardly hetero lives. Doesn't make them straight, does it?

I can only describe what I lived with and saw with my own eyes. There's no denying that situation and firmly believe that it wasn't exclusive to her. I don't beleive everyone who has "tendencies" acts them out either.

And if a person has an outwardly hetereo life and has homosexual relations, in my world it's called the "down low" and it's killing women at horrific rates in my community. Better off being honest from the beginning IMO.

 

[Excess]

I know one female who, while she doesn't hate men completely, won't let a guy anywhere near her because she was raped. Personally, I think that's bullshit. Sorry, I know, she was raped, it's traumatic, but I'm not gonna tell her that it makes her justified. It doesn't.

But eh, hatred of the opposite sex goes both ways, you just hear more about men being sexist/abusing women/etc. because women are generally smarter, and don't ever feel any need for such due to already having control. And that IS what it often comes down to, control.

Gay or straight or whatever, all people are assholes.

 

[kis123]

I know one female who, while she doesn't hate men completely, won't let a guy anywhere near her because she was raped. Personally, I think that's bullshit. Sorry, I know, she was raped, it's traumatic, but I'm not gonna tell her that it makes her justified. It doesn't.

But eh, hatred of the opposite sex goes both ways, you just hear more about men being sexist/abusing women/etc. because women are generally smarter, and don't ever feel any need for such due to already having control. And that IS what it often comes down to, control.

Gay or straight or whatever, all people are assholes.

And what do you suppose she'd do other than tell her it's bullshit?

I've never been raped before, but have dealt with molestation issues in my childhood. If it ever went to rape, I'd probably never be right dealing with men.....ever. I think she's thoroughly justified in protecting herself from never dealing with that type of trauma again. Does she need some other help? Sure she does. But I'm not going to say she isn't justified based on her experience.

And what does control have to do with anything? Every man I've ever been with tried to dominate and control. That doesn't work well with me because in a loving relationship it isn't necessary. I have no problem submitting to a man who's loving me and taking good care of me. If he doesn't, the only thing it turns into is a case of an irrestible force running into an immovable object! Even basic physics says that doesn't work out.

 

[Excess]

And what do you suppose she'd do other than tell her it's bullshit?

I've never been raped before, but have dealt with molestation issues in my childhood. If it ever went to rape, I'd probably never be right dealing with men.....ever. I think she's thoroughly justified in protecting herself from never dealing with that type of trauma again. Does she need some other help? Sure she does. But I'm not going to say she isn't justified based on her experience.

And what does control have to do with anything? Every man I've ever been with tried to dominate and control. That doesn't work well with me because in a loving relationship it isn't necessary. I have no problem submitting to a man who's loving me and taking good care of me. If he doesn't, the only thing it turns into is a case of an irrestible force running into an immovable object! Even basic physics says that doesn't work out.

So if some woman broke into my home, knocked me unconscious, and stole all of my money, it'd be ok for me to never want anything to do with all women ever again? Ok then, that might work for you, but eh, not so much for me. Judging someone as a group rather than an individual is a bad idea me thinks.

And control has everything to do with it. No matter if you're a man or a woman, you'll want some level of control. That's what keeps a relationship equal in fact. Each person wants a certain level of control to keep the other from having too much, even if they don't realize it.

 

[kis123]

So if some woman broke into my home, knocked me unconscious, and stole all of my money, it'd be ok for me to never want anything to do with all women ever again? Ok then, that might work for you, but eh, not so much for me. Judging someone as a group rather than an individual is a bad idea me thinks.

Robbing someone and raping someone are two different issues. That was IMO an apples to hand grenades comparison. Hope you can provide a better one, but it won't change my opinion on the matter anyway. I didn't say she was necessarily right about her approach, but I thoroughly understand it.

And control has everything to do with it. No matter if you're a man or a woman, you'll want some level of control. That's what keeps a relationship equal in fact. Each person wants a certain level of control to keep the other from having too much, even if they don't realize it.

That's not the way I involve myself in relationships. The risk is the loss of control in the name of some level of compromise in the relationship. My problem comes when someone wants complete control and negative dominance at my expense.

I think we may be taking away from the spirit of this thread. If you'd like to take this PM, that's fine. If not, you'll have your opinion and I have mine and it looks like that's where it is.

 

[Excess]

I think we may be taking away from the spirit of this thread. If you'd like to take this PM, that's fine. If not, you'll have your opinion and I have mine and it looks like that's where it is.

Fair enough, but it'd probably be a waste since neither of us will likely have our opinions changed on the matter.

 

[tklee88]

Well, I am not gay, but I do have a certain "fear" around people of the opposite sex. I've had it in me since birth. I would never let men hold me as a baby and was scared stiff of them all through my childhood. Even now, men make me very nervous until I've really gotten to know them. Don't know what it is.

 

[Artoo]

I personally don't discriminate between genders - I have about as many female friends as I have male.

I've met a few lesbians who were quite cold towards me, but that could have been due to any number of reasons, not necessarily because I'm a man.

 

[LD_Tickler]

This is not completely true. I know my share of women that because of horrible experiences with men, they now are with women. I have one person in my family (actually step-family) that because she was repeatedly raped by another family member, she is gay. She has two children that someone had to raise because she literally flipped out. It does happen. I won't say it happens often, but it does happen.

Kis, you may be surprised to hear this... but I'm going to disagree!

In any situation where we see a woman who has a terrible experience with a man (or vice versa), and then becomes homosexual because of it, we can never be sure that experience was the 'cause' of homosexuality. We have no idea what causes homosexuality. It could be that innate homosexuality was a contributing factor to the crappiness of the relationship. It could be that this experience prompted her to embrace homosexual tendencies in her as perhaps a mental investment in the image of 'men' (now torn down) had been compelling her to live a hetero lifestyle. I mean, you know these people and stories better than I do, I'm just saying, these connections may not be as causal and/or simple than they appear.

My only real point in this thread is that hatred of the other gender is absolutely not a "degree" of homosexuality. It is a completely autonomous, detached variable which is the result of intervening variables (some of which may be more pronounced in the lives of homosexuals given complex gender relations), not the result of homosexuality itself.