The appreciation thread

[Big_Dogg85]

Aye... I must stop here for I feel I am beginning to rant which was not my intention but alas my posts are becoming of such. I will finish by saying that, perhaps, artists underestimate how much their art is truly appreciated here. It took a certain few members of this forum to get me out of lurkerdom some time ago but even then I had an appreciation for art done here and over at TMF. I bet there are many lurkers who share the same appreciation of the artwork here and at TMF like I do but may not post their appreciation for the artist to see...it sure doesn't mean they don't appreciate them.

I'm off for now but I look forward to debating with you and Umo again Kal Good night.

 

[Boone1]

I aggree with nerrod for the most part, I'm not getting dragged into this PC vs reality crap

 

[Kalamos]

Why in the world would Kalamos continue to post his stuff here...

Well, I stopped altogether.

Not because I felt underappreciate - I'm a sucker for compliments and I never have enough, but that was not the case - but for a far more sensible and concrete reason.

Over my country, they turned radar alert over adult contents up a notch or twenty.
They even closed forums and shows I had worked with, so I had to be extra careful.

I simply continued posting my stuff over sites I felt safer with.

 

[Kalamos]

I just used you as an example of a skill level. I could have said several names there.

Dunno. What is skill all about?
One might be great at drawing XYZ, but if people really like ZYX, even skill is of little consequence.

...

Besides, I felt like telling my tale a bit.
I mentioned I had probs with TTC's rules on art posts, but never got the chance to elaborate on that.

People can't show appreciation unless one actually draws.
And drawing becomes a tad dangerous, when law starts shutting down sites, because of indecent contents.

Oh, well, I'll get back to draw gnomes.
Hopefully nobody will take them for bearded kids...

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I never liked the fact that it seems to be more about making sure no one's feelings are hurt and there's a compliment for everyone. I'm not going with the flow here and agree that everything posted here is valuable, good, or interesting. I shouldn't use an American sport team reference here for international members, but alot of people would know Michael Jordan. He excelled and was a better all around basketball player of a higher quality than the rest of his teammates. He was singled out and appreciated, marketed differently, and given due credit. They didn't, however, feel obligated to make sure the rest of them have prime time specials, interviews, and posters made of the third-string, bench warming, less talented players. And I think those players knew they weren't on his level and the coaches didn't need to try to convince them they were. I also doubt they let it ruin their experience in the NBA.

Some of the art here is very remedial. With alot of practice and some God-given talent, they can improve. Save the compliments and the accolades for the ones who have put in the time and become good. Offer those trying to improve some encouragement and tips and let them develop. But it's an insult to the better artists here to be watered down and forced to keep company with those who just enjoy doodling and posting everthing they produce. Why in the world would Kalamos continue to post his stuff here after spending hours on it just to see it get the same response as some line art, horribly distorted guess at a human form? I'm assuming everyone here can hold a pencil. That doesn't make them a good artist any more than owning a guitar makes you a great player. It takes alot of work and the results speak for themselves.

And as I've always said... it's great that people are willing to share and it's great that they enjoy doing it. I think everyone should. But again, it's insulting to think that someone's quality work will be diminished while there are 100 posts dragging this thread off-topic about sharing unearned popularity. That's my nickel. Keep the change.

Quoted for truth and approval, at the insistance of my business manager below. aw:

 

[Timewarp]

I think this thread should be renamed, "The appreciation and complaint thread".

 

[Featherdemon]

An interesting collection of thoughts and idea. I would be honoured to add mine.

I think I may have misunderstood the point of having this forum.

I was under the impression that it was a place for ANYONE to share their love of tickling in all forms and in whatever medium he/she felt most appropriate; a place where you didn't have to be a world class artist or author to post - you just need to share the same love and appreciation of tickling- to have the courage to post your own drawings, stories, etc for the inspection of other viewers.

Was I wrong? Is this now a place where only those who can draw well can post?

While there is a wide diversity of quality in the art posted here, it makes me sad that people now appear to be more interested in how a pic is drawn rather than what the pic is showing. For artists and authors who are just finding their feet (pardon the pun ) in expressing their likes and dislikes (and it is not an easy step for all), it is important to be given the confidence to continue to share contributions. That doesn't mean false praise, but honesty and encouragement. They should share because of their love, fascination or even obsession with tickling - and not feel scared to in case their contribution is laughed at or verbally torn to pieces.

I will freely admit that there are some very high quality artists, awesome in fact, in this forum and they deserve to be paid for their art. They are very welcome here and take the expression of our shared fetish to a new and wonderous level. Yet some of these same artists may not capture the essence of a good tickle scene, or make the heart flutter through their portrayal tickling. There are other artists who are deemed to be of a lesser quality that can stir a greater sense of tickle-lust through their work than the higher caliber artists- and they are equally welcome. Or at least they should be. Quality or no, we post to share tickle art.

I am not saying that skill should not be acknowledged or praised, merely that as well as that, we should encourage and enjoy all of the other art.

Point and case - if you are looking for tickle art, then you will find it here in abundance and in a wide variety of forms. So we should appreciate it all, high quality or not, or the flow of art will stop. Quality should be second to content - this is a tickle forum after all, and not a art contest.

 

[alf1]

I have to say that i appreciate coffee

very much


it's the appreciation thread ain't it ?

 

[Featherdemon]

Lol! Good point - well made.

 

[Spawn190]

There all good in my book!
I like to put my art out there to let people know what comes out of my warped mind.

People can either appraise or criticize them, it makes no diffrence to me and it wont stop me from producing them!

 

[10 armed tkler]

I staple what nerrad said to my own. I could not put it any better. Maybe a bit less harsher though. Besides it only turns into a popularity contest the second someone whines/comments about so and so not being mentioned. And everyone else start up on it. Then we of course get this

 

[Violetta]

I sympathize. There's a difference between appreciation and blind praise. I appreciate the efforts of all the artists here who do put forth hard work and bring something to us, asking nothing in return. But I don't believe in lavishing praise on a piece that doesn't show at least something enjoyable to it. Critique is one thing, and applause are another.

When I posted my first art here it was amatuerish. And I'm still learning, but I hope I've made a lot of progress. But it's hard to gauge how good I've gotten when people call my stuff "awesome"... which is the same word used to describe the latest first time sketch.

It might not seem fair to point out that all artists aren't the same, but it's a lot more considerate to those who have taken the time out of their lives to learn that much more and draw that much more.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Bah. I'm not buying it. So I'm gathering here that in the same manner that we all like some form of music, if you turn your radio on and hear a bad rendition of your favorite song, that's okay. As long as some one's singing it, it doesn't matter that they're tone deaf. Balls.

I'm all for everyone enjoying art and everyone participating if they like. Every piece doesn't have to be judged. I think everyone here with at least one eye can tell the difference between the levels of talent. I've seen a few people really put their mind to it and practice/learn from others and they've made great strides. And I see alot of people posting stuff that is so anatomically incorrect that a real person would die if they were like that. My beef is just throwing everyone who posts the same "AWESOME!"-style high level praise for something that they didn't even think about and took 5 minutes to draw. I could - but won't - name three artists off the top of my head who've pm'd me about it. Everyone is welcome to participate, but not everyone is AWESOME. There's nothing awesome about seeing a major joint missing on a limb or having a right foot on a left leg. Sorry.

Practice, practice, practice. The best artists on here aren't just naturals at it. They're the ones who've practiced the most.

When I posted in that "cack art" thread on the TMF, I had made the point that idle praise is lazy, disingenuous, and selfish. Half of the problem is the people who respond as they contribute to the delusions of the artist and their ego. If what they were saying was actually true wouldn't matter, since they're speaking without thinking, which is harmful to the artist if they're trying to get noticed or want attention. The reason it's harmful is because a frail artist will try and get any attention he or she can get, and they're willing to settle, put up, and tolerate anything anyone says to them as long as it's positive.

The problem with the art culture on fetish websites is that responses are selfish. As I said in the cack art thread, a majority of these people who respond with the "awesome " responses are just passifying the artist, not helping them. If they really had the artist's best interests at heart, rather than their own, they would actually explain why it's awesome at least. But, I guess most people cannot be bothered to spend the five minutes or less it would take to come up with something worthwhile.

Idle praisers are the poison on TMF and TT. Rather than killing an artist, they cause bloating through exageration. They figure the more praise they heap the more likely this artist will stick around. That point of view is incredibly short-sighted, selfish, and shallow...not to mention it means you take the artist for a fool if you think they cannot see how transparent that is. Even though these are fetish websites where I must assume the majority come to answer the tingling call in their groin, this issue really comes down to basic human respect and concern. If these people really gave a damn about the fresh meat on the boards as well as the veterans and so called "legends" (another exagerated title), they'd get their act together.

Its just incredibly selfish. Whether you're not giving better responses because you're too lazy to, you fear telling the truth about an artist's suckage would make you look bad and so its about looking good in public and keeping your rep in check, or it's because you want to appease the artist in the hopes of getting them to stay so they can keep giving you the crack you're fixed on, its all selfish.

If you're lazy, you're being selfish, because you're more concerned about your inconvenience than the artist.

If you're not willing to admit an artist is horrible at drawing but still publically praise them as if they weren't, then it demonstrates how you're, again, concerned for how it makes YOU look. It also means whatever you're telling the artist is a lie, which is a shame on you and a secret wrong against them as you're lying directly to them.

If you're giving idle praise to keep the artist around, then it's selfish because you're doing it with the interest of keeping your supply of crack coming, not that the artist deserves it or not.

Indeed, the majority of the responders are just not bred well for this sort of thing....and it's the artists who suffer.

 

[Umojar]

I think Vlad's a bit extreme with it, but I agree with his main point. While I understand people put themselves in a vulnerable position when posting art, people aren't gonna like it, that's the way it is. One thing many people don't realize is that a lot of times people have a hard time finding flaws in their own work. Since it's something you draw you sort of develop a sense of pride for it that forgives all the little mistakes in your artwork. Plus I think it's only fair that people tell me if they think my stuff sucks(explaining why of course), and I think anyone that wants to become better as an artist should want the same. As long as it's constructive, people should be free to say anything and not feel like they have to hold back because it's not what the poster wants to hear. I'll admit, criticism is something I don't like to hear all the time either, but if they're right about it, even if I don't want to hear it, it's something I can't just disregard, and I improve because of it. I've yet to find a good artist that can't handle criticism.

Another thing I wanted to add too, is that art is kind of like magic in a way. Once you know the tricks, you see other people's art in a different light. You notice levels of detail to the point where you can tell how much effort was put into it. You'll also notice if they don't use techniques as well or mistakes in anatomy and it makes you view the work differently than someone who doesn't know any of that. People that don't know about that stuff only look at it for the content and judge it from that. I think this is why a lot of the "lesser artists" that don't necessarily have the technique are still popular.

So, the point is it's an art section and if you're posting work up you have to be open to criticism AND praise. I usually ask for both, and even when someone steps up to say something, they're immediately attacked even if it was constructive. If people can't express an opinion because it might be interpreted as negative, then we might as well get rid of the age limit, remove the Adult, and just call it TickleTheater- Tickling Community.

 

[Big_Dogg85]

On a slight side note, it's human nature for people to invoke their indivdual autonomy in ways that better themselves first instead of others. Society is pretty individualistic: from the need to be first in line for something to job competitions. I wouldn't say selfish necessarily, more that such posters don't take the time to make a proper comment like Vlad and Umo said or perhaps do not know what to say. I can definitely accuse myself of this but I do try to make comments on art when I can but when I don't and end up writing the 7-8+ letters comprising the "awesome"s and the "very nice"s it's because I'm usually tired or spacing out. (Excuses...perhaps but I'm usually on @ 1-2 in the morning so I'm sticking with my valid excuse ) I do agree that if people were to take the time to analyze a piece of artwork and comment on why they like it would be very good practice.

If people get an inflated view of themselves through positive comments, which applies to everyone not just artists, that was their choice and then they must deal with the consequences as a result. Gotta love that individual autonomy.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Idle praise may seem like a harmless thing at first, but it hurts an artist who cannot differientiate between genuine praise, genuine criticism and idle praise and troll-like criticism in the long run. While it would be the artist's shortcoming, the commenter is ultimately responsible for what they say and they contribute to the problem in a much larger way then their initial investment into the careless comment. Its a mere drop in the bucket, but those drops add up until eventually the artist realizes how they've allowed themselves to be treated around these types of commenters didn't help them and actually slowed them down and even kept them from growing in some way. While I would be glad that they eventually came to that truth and realization, I'm concerned that it may be too little too late, as old habits do not tire easy and the artist would basically have to reeducate themselves...no easy task when you've been used to having things a certain way for such a long time.

Let us not forget that it disturbs the balance. Eventually, if all an artist hears is how great they are, and then someone comes along and criticises them, that criticism is going to either be blown out of proportion by those shielding the artist, its going to be taken out of context, or it's going to be ignored and the commenter debated. Finally, the artist themselves will take it as a personal offence, as they've been conditioned by idle praise to accept only that. Anything else does not compute. I know from personal experience of how people respond to criticism, I'm not just talking in hypotheticals.

The reason this topic never ends and always reincarnates time and time again is because the responders are not doing their part and the artists are not asking for criticism and critiques. The ball is actually in the artist's court and they need to make the first move. If they cannot, then all they're demonstrating is how weak they are as people or how fragile their own self esteem is. I did not get where I am today by having people nurse and coddle me there. I also didn't recieve alot of flak either. I was pretty fortunate, actually, and alot of others can be as fortunate as I was if they're willing to open themselves up to these experiences.

One might say "well Vlad, this is ALL easy for you to say, you're a good artist already! This doesn't affect you anymore! Come on now, you're just making light of all of this because you can afford to! Not everyone enjoys the same comfort, skill, confidience and experience as you do!"

To that line of thought I would say, it is because I am where I am that I'm the perfect candicate to speak about this in the first place, as is nerrad. You'll notice how him and I are the most brutally honest of anyone who has commented here. Him and I also happen to be two of the best artists this website has on it. That is not a coincidence. With hard work, confidence, practice, and experience you naturally develop a thick hide and can deal with people socially. Him and I most likely have more to say on this than others do because we know and fully appriciate the value of this topic and how much it means in the larger scheme of things. To simply let it go and never talk about it would be, in my opinion, a disservice. Even if no one gives a damn about it, it goes through one ear and out the other, and they'd only look upon my comments contemptuously, I feel some things just need to be said lest they be drowned out by the static and noise.

All it takes is one. As long as a single person eventually heeds these words, I will have made a world of difference and then they can make a world of difference to someone else and it will go full circle.

 

[Umojar]

Well, see that's why I was saying your point of view is a bit extreme, as I don't think the idle praise is as harmful as you say, nor do I think the people that do it are selfish because of it. Sure if they're extreme with it than it's an issue, but the artist should be able to see through that at the very least, unless they're really that delusional. Plus many people aren't artists here, and critiquing is something that has to be done carefully otherwise it can be the most harmful thing. Someone giving bad criticisms hurt the artists work even more than praise, as even praise will usually get the artist to draw more and get more practice. While it would help if they always said what they liked about it, they aren't obligated to do so. If the artist wants to improve, he/she must take it upon themselves to do so by asking for critiques as you said or just looking at other artist's work that's better than yours. It all starts with being honest with yourself about your skill level. It's no one else's fault but your own if you stop trying to improve because everyone says your art is good enough.

 

[The Bandito]

How do these things always spiral out of control?

I think this was just an appreciation thread - not an art theory thread, or some blog on the moral imperative of properly placed criticism/critique. Oh well - I don't want to get into it too much, so I'll simply say "thanks" to the people that showed up on this thread to appreciate an artist who contributes to this forum. Ah hell - no, I gotta get this offa my chest.

If you are an artist and you are so sensitive - that to see public appreciation of artists other than yourself causes you to feel unwanted, then you might want to toughen up, just a bit. Every field has public appreciation and recognition. To name a few:

MVP
Rookie of the Year
Nobel Prize
Oscars
Emmy's (SP?)
Grammy's (SP?
Blah blah, etc etc.

If an actor doesn't win an Oscar - do they stop acting? A scientist doesn't win the Nobel - does he stop inventing? Its ok.. it really is. SS won the Golden feather award on the TMF. Somehow - other artists are still posting there. The market dictated that he was deserving of public praise. He got it - move on.

If people spent half the time creating new work, or praising existing work that they spend EVERY TTIME this "what is good art, good criticism" debate comes along, than our community would have a TON more work and happier artists!

Stop debating the fine points of critical theory, and if you like someone's work - tell them. Jesus Tap Dancing Christ - this is a tickle forum, not the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

The one bit of advice I might add - for the folks that are looking for ways to "appreciate" their favorite artists. Post a comment when they post a new pic. Give them feedback on ways they might improve, and tell them why you like their work. That's it - you just appreciated them! Woo!

Now I'll let everyone go back to this bizarre and utterly mysterious debate. I swear to God there are certain people that I never see any work from, never see any art comments from, they only materialize when there is a debate, or conflict. Huh... kinda weird.

Oh well - I'm going to go try to create some more content. Please feel free to appreciate it (or will that hurt all other artists, or should you praise first, then criticize... or..... or lol.)

Chill guys and gals. Just make pretty pics, and comment if you like someone else's pretty pic. Not............ that................. COMPLICATED. :super_hap

As you were,

B

 

[Chad Pet]

...artists mentioned tend to be the "legends." Most people mention BAC, or Lou Panther, or Chad Pet.

I would like to go on record that I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor shall I ever be, a legend.

If you want to figure out the map, get somebody else.

 

[10 armed tkler]

How about Legend Killer Chad? Better title?XD

 

[Violetta]

I would like to go on record that I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor shall I ever be, a legend.

If you want to figure out the map, get somebody else.

Well great! How am I supposed to find the hidden treasure now?

 

[Chad Pet]

Well great! How am I supposed to find the hidden treasure now?

In the heart of a woman's love.
In the eyes of every innocent child.
In the man who knows how to iron his own shirts.

 

[Violetta]

In the heart of a woman's love.
In the eyes of every innocent child.
In the man who knows how to iron his own shirts.

That's it! I'm so gonna make sure my man can iron his shirts.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Master Chad.

 

[Timewarp]

In the heart of a woman's love.
In the eyes of every innocent child.
In the man who knows how to iron his own shirts.

Yeah thanks for raising the bar...it's not enough we have to talk endlessly, pay for dates, and lose all sense of leadership. Now I have to iron my clothes for the invisible winkle women. What's next, giving half my stuff before I even get married if ever?

Traitor

 

[Chad Pet]

Yeah thanks for raising the bar...

A man who can iron his own shirts does not NEED a woman, thus the treasure is him and the woman who gets him is much more compliant to his needs.

Contemplate this for a while.