The Secret: Utter Crap

[c7_assassin]

Anyone care to weigh in on the bestselling self-help phenomenon that is The Secret?

I'm sure you can guess where I stand on this subject. Anyone else out there have an opinion?

 

[-Hari-]

Just to be awkward.

I havent read it, probably wont read it, and havent looked into what its really about

But

I tend to look at things this way, if someone had a thought about something once, and decided it was worth writing about, and that those writings have been read and enjoyed by many people, it cant really be "crap" in fact, Very few things can be.

Theres obviously gonna be mixed opinions about everything various people come up with, but no matter how large the portion of people that think its rubbish, it certainly doesnt mean that its the case.

I cant offer my opinion of the book/dvd or whatever it is, but I bet it isnt crap as youve stated, or else it wouldnt be a best seller

 

[Dussicar]

Anyone care to weigh in on the bestselling self-help phenomenon that is The Secret?

I'm sure you can guess where I stand on this subject. Anyone else out there have an opinion?

This book better not be about how they get that creamy, silky caramel into the caramilk bar because I already know how they do it.

Caramel cows jerk off into chocolate conduits.

U just gott owned Cadbury!!!

 

[c7_assassin]

Just to be awkward.

I havent read it, probably wont read it, and havent looked into what its really about

But

I tend to look at things this way, if someone had a thought about something once, and decided it was worth writing about, and that those writings have been read and enjoyed by many people, it cant really be "crap" in fact, Very few things can be.

Theres obviously gonna be mixed opinions about everything various people come up with, but no matter how large the portion of people that think its rubbish, it certainly doesnt mean that its the case.

I cant offer my opinion of the book/dvd or whatever it is, but I bet it isnt crap as youve stated, or else it wouldnt be a best seller

Oh, I dunno about that... people went nuts over pet rocks too.

But I'd rather argue about the book, not whether it was right for me to label it "crap."

 

[PenMasterRule]

Oh, I dunno about that... people went nuts over pet rocks too.

But I'd rather argue about the book, not whether it was right for me to label it "crap."

Well its obvious you think it's crap. So why argue about it? I mean what can someone say? "It's not crap"? Then you can retort "It is crap". You two could have a back-and-forth match until someone realizes it's stupid to do that and quits. In the end no one accomplishes anything, but we realize who's a quitter and who has a lot of free time on their hands.

Oh and you are wrong to call it crap.

 

[naughtylucy]

Just googled it (avoiding work, this evening) and it sounds like crap. Being popular doesn't make it un-crap.

There are a lot of vulnerable people out there and a lot of people who would like to squeeze some cash out of folk.

 

[Artoo]

From wikipedia:

The Secret is a book[1] that presents what is claimed to be a centuries-old technique of the Law of Attraction, which in essence is the power of an individual's positive thinking to change and influence outcomes in their lives.

Nevermind how old it is or what you call it, your state of mind always has an effect on they way you live your life, which in turn has certain outcomes. So, no shit, Sherlock.

The book claims that the secrets outlined in the book have been known by famous and influential people for centuries, but that they have conspired to keep these secrets hidden from the general public for their own benefit.

Um...wut?

The Secret is described as a New Age spiritual self-help book, with the basis of the claims of the "Laws of Attraction" originate through understanding the cosmos and how an individual can influence it for their own personal gain and benefit

Oh, okay. New Age.

That explains it. LOL.

 

[c7_assassin]

Exactly. And not only is it based on metaphysical garbage, it's morally irresponsible.

Basically it says that if you want good things to happen to you, it doesn't involve being a good person, or doing good deeds, or anything like that. It's just a matter of wishing for it, and the universe will sense this and give it to you.

It's basically the crystallization of the American consumer spirit: wanting something means you're entitled to it. Of course idiots are in love with this idea.

 

[venray]

The premise is not crap...how it is used to exploit others is morally wrong...

Now to blatantly dismiss anything as "crap" is completely narrow minded....

and to do it over and over again is redundant....add to your reasoning as to why it is crap...give specifics, or your opinion has no real basis for discussion or debate and therby makes this thread crap....

 

[c7_assassin]

Thanks Ray, I was kind of hoping one of the Secret-believers would post about why they believe in the Secret first before I totally eviscerate it...

If you don't think the premise of "positive thoughts attracting positive energy" is crap, please explain.

 

[venray]

I have lived for quite some time....positive thoughts always make for a more positive experience in life whereas negativity always tears us down....

Always think the worst will happen and it will...


As for anyone who believes in the "Secret" be it book or philosophy, you have pretty much made sure they will not post here only to be disembowled by you and you "opinion" that they believe in crap....

LOL Kinda defeats the purpose of "debate" when you come out shooting live ammunition....

Oh well...nuff said here for me....enjoy....

 

[-Hari-]

Oh, I dunno about that... people went nuts over pet rocks too.

But I'd rather argue about the book, not whether it was right for me to label it "crap."

Nah thats not my argument at all, its ok for you to call it crap if you like, im just disagreeing that it is crap based on its popularity cause I dont have much else to base an opinion on. My input kinda ends here, anyway

 

[nerdness]

I tend to look at things this way, if someone had a thought about something once, and decided it was worth writing about, and that those writings have been read and enjoyed by many people, it cant really be "crap" in fact, Very few things can be.

I cant offer my opinion of the book/dvd or whatever it is, but I bet it isnt crap as youve stated, or else it wouldnt be a best seller

makes me think of this quote:

"Public opinion is often wrong, mob opinion is almost always wrong, [and] religious opinion is wrong by definition." - Christopher Hitchens

 

[Homer28]

Out of curiosity, have you read it or watched the DVD?

Personally I don't see the harm in any philosophy that helps people get through this fucked up world (as long as it does not harm others).

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

While I tend to stay away from, "if you build it they will come" type of stuff, I think alot can be said for the power of positive thinking. It can be applied in many aspects of real life aside from The Secret *dum dum duuuuuum*

For example, confidence. If you show confidence in yourself, you're likely to yield positive results in whatever you're looking for. People often say that confidence is a very sexy trait in a member of the preferred sex, and if two individuals with the exact same characteristics are presented, and one displays confidence and the other does not, oftentimes the confident person will be regarded as more attractive. Confidence = positive thinking.

In a job interview, if you go in and show confidence and a good attitude, you're going to be far more likely to be offered the job than if you're unsure and timid. Again, positive thinking yields positive results.

One of the things that The Secret talks about are things called "vision boards". While the name is a little hokey, and the details are a little outside my scope of belief (laws of attraction of the universe - if you want a big screen TV put a big screen TV on your vision board and one will come to you somehow - I don't buy it), the basic premise behind it isn't bad. You cut pictures and words out of magazines and attach them to a poster board. They can be things you want, goals, inspirational words or phrases -- anything. You include a spiritual/inspirational quote and a picture of yourself that you like. Then when it's complete you hang it somewhere where you'll look at it every day. The idea is that keeping your goals and desires at the forefront of your mind will make you more apt to work towards them subconsciously, and I don't think that's untrue. If I wake up every morning and while I cook breakfast or sit in my living room I can glance over and see all my goals and inspiration to complete them in one convenient little package, it's going to help me stay motivated and uplifted long-term.

So no, I don't think The Secret is utter crap, but my original comment in the other thread, the comment that seemed to inspire this thread, had nothing to do with The Secret. You could have been talking about The Secret, politics, pork fried rice, or nailpolish and my observation would have been the same:

I think you're describing the Secret.

And not to be insensitive to your beliefs, but the Secret is beyond crap.

I hate when people think they can say something insulting just because they say, "no offense" or some derivative thereof.

 

[c7_assassin]

Thanks Skip.

If the Secret was just about positive thinking being a good thing, then I'd agree that it's a good thing. And you're right about confidence too.

But when you throw in metaphysics, then it gets stupid. And when you start making dangerous, irresponsible claims (like that the Secret can cure cancer), then I start to have a problem with it. And like I said before, it's an awful moral lesson to teach people.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Thanks Skip.

If the Secret was just about positive thinking being a good thing, then I'd agree that it's a good thing. And you're right about confidence too.

But when you throw in metaphysics, then it gets stupid. And when you start making dangerous, irresponsible claims (like that the Secret can cure cancer), then I start to have a problem with it. And like I said before, it's an awful moral lesson to teach people.

So wouldn't it be more appropriate, more accurate, and less offensive to say something along the lines of, "While I can understand how the basic principles behind it are good and useful, I think the details of The Secret such as x, y and z are reaching, and teach people the exact opposite of responsibility," rather than saying, "The Secret is CRAP!"

You can can express just about any opinion in the world without offending others if you choose your words properly. It's just a question whether you want to bother to put forth that effort or not.

 

[c7_assassin]

So wouldn't it be more appropriate, more accurate, and less offensive to say something along the lines of, "While I can understand how the basic principles behind it are good and useful, I think the details of The Secret such as x, y and z are reaching, and teach people the exact opposite of responsibility," rather than saying, "The Secret is CRAP!"

You can can express just about any opinion in the world without offending others if you choose your words properly. It's just a question whether you want to bother to put forth that effort or not.

No, I did choose my words carefully. I wasn't making a judgement about any people (besides the ones who wrote the book, that is...), but there's no way I could be honest about how I feel about the Secret itself without using the word "crap." Or bullshit, hoax, charlatanism, fuckery..."crap" was about as mellow as it gets.

Now if I had said "If you believe in the Secret you are retarded," that might have been crossing a line. I'm not saying that (although some Secret believers really might be...I'm looking at you, Oprah).

The hoaky metaphysics aren't something you can just overlook. What the Secret is saying is that every murder victim in the world basically brought it on themselves through negative thoughts. If you get cancer, you brought it on yourself. If you're the victim of rape or ethnic cleansing, you brought it on yourself. I say that's crap.

Oh, and they also warn believers to steer clear of negative thoughts in others, like for example, anyone trying to tell them that the Secret is crap (actually, maybe that's why so few people have come forward to try to defend the Secret...they don't want to be exposed to my negative energy...). When you start discouraging critical thinking in your followers, I think that's crap too.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

No, I did choose my words carefully. I wasn't making a judgement about any people (besides the ones who wrote the book, that is...), but there's no way I could be honest about how I feel about the Secret itself without using the word "crap." Or bullshit, hoax, charlatanism, fuckery..."crap" was about as mellow as it gets.

Now if I had said "If you believe in the Secret you are retarded," that might have been crossing a line. I'm not saying that (although some Secret believers really might be...I'm looking at you, Oprah).

The hoaky metaphysics aren't something you can just overlook. What the Secret is saying is that every murder victim in the world basically brought it on themselves through negative thoughts. If you get cancer, you brought it on yourself. If you're the victim of rape or ethnic cleansing, you brought it on yourself. I say that's crap.

Oh, and they also warn believers to steer clear of negative thoughts in others, like for example, anyone trying to tell them that the Secret is crap (actually, maybe that's why so few people have come forward to try to defend the Secret...they don't want to be exposed to my negative energy...). When you start discouraging critical thinking in your followers, I think that's crap too.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that some aspects of what The Secret suggests I don't buy into. I don't believe that victims have it coming, and that a new toaster oven will materialize in your kitchen if you wish hard enough. I agree that teaching people to think like that is teaching them that they don't have to be responsible for their actions, and that life will just deal them the hand they're meant to have. I understand the feelings of frustration that it triggers to think that people are actually living their lives by some of these details that we agree aren't accurate or healthy ways to think and live.

But I look at it like this. Tolerance, tact and respect go a long way, and it's not necessary to insult someone (calling someone's beliefs crap is insulting - I don't care if you didn't make a verbal attack against their person) to get your point across. Sometimes, in a heated debate, it happens to all of us, but this isn't a heated debate, and neither was the other thread, where this whole thing started. I think you're being disrespectful by using the words you're using, and to say you chose them carefully makes it even worse.

 

[c7_assassin]

Skip, you seem like a good person, I don't mind derailing the thread a little to talk about this...

I do believe in tolerance, absolutely. The idea that I have a right to somehow control what someone else thinks is totally wrong. I would never firebomb a bookstore for selling copies of the Secret or beat up the author, no matter how wrong I think the philosophy is. That's tolerance.

But to say that it's intolerant of me to express a strong opinion on something I feel strongly about is wrong. My opinions aren't coming from a hateful place, they come from knowing what this book says about and wholeheartedly disagreeing with it, and finding the ideology offensive.

I have a problem with the idea that we have to treat every belief system as equal. That only works if you don't have a belief system. They can't possibly all be right. And if they're wrong (as the Secret is), then the right thing to do is say so. Or if I'm wrong and the Secret isn't crap, tell me so! I can handle it! But don't tell me that I have no right to say that something I think is crap is crap.

I have that right, and you have that right, every person with a brain in their head has that right. And if someone ever said to you, "Actually, 2+2 is 5, not 4," not only should you call that crap, you should yell it in their face. Letting people believe stupid things without challenge is wrong, and it's a detriment to society. Be proud of your beliefs, but be ready to back them up.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Skip, you seem like a good person, I don't mind derailing the thread a little to talk about this...

I do believe in tolerance, absolutely. The idea that I have a right to somehow control what someone else thinks is totally wrong. I would never firebomb a bookstore for selling copies of the Secret or beat up the author, no matter how wrong I think the philosophy is. That's tolerance.

But to say that it's intolerant of me to express a strong opinion on something I feel strongly about is wrong. My opinions aren't coming from a hateful place, they come from knowing what this book says about and wholeheartedly disagreeing with it, and finding the ideology offensive.

I have a problem with the idea that we have to treat every belief system as equal. That only works if you don't have a belief system. They can't possibly all be right. And if they're wrong (as the Secret is), then the right thing to do is say so. Or if I'm wrong and the Secret isn't crap, tell me so! I can handle it! But don't tell me that I have no right to say that something I think is crap is crap.

I have that right, and you have that right, every person with a brain in their head has that right. And if someone ever said to you, "Actually, 2+2 is 5, not 4," not only should you call that crap, you should yell it in their face. Letting people believe stupid things without challenge is wrong, and it's a detriment to society. Be proud of your beliefs, but be ready to back them up.

I think you're missing my point entirely. I don't care what your opinion is on The Secret or anything else. We could be talking about monkeys jerking off in the zoo. My point is I think you're wording is offensive and rude, and while you do have the *right* to say things however you want, it is my opinion that you catch more flies with honey. People are going to be more likely to listen to you and assume that your opinion is something *besides* incessant rambling and ranting if you don't insult them. If your goal is to make people "see the light" that The Secret is full of bologna, you're certainly doing a helluva job getting in your own way. No one is going to listen to someone insult them, even if they're right in what they're saying.

 

[c7_assassin]

Well, you may be right about how most people would respond. Personally, for me, I'm not afraid of a good argument, so if I ever saw a thread entitled, "Atheism is Bullshit," or "HBO is Bullshit," I'd dive right in because I'm confident enough in my beliefs to defend them if someone calls me out.

I don't think I've been rambling or incoherent, but if no one else responds, then I guess this thread is going to die...maybe next week I'll go to P&R and start a "Mormonism is Bullshit" thread and see what happens...

 

[Artoo]

We could be talking about monkeys jerking off in the zoo.

Can we?

EDIT: *must not hijack thread*

 

[solescratcher99]

There's quite a few articles about the difference between thinking "positively" and being constructive (which is ultimately what the secret fails to differentiate to people). 1

Also, this is an interesting blog on who was the motivation behind the author. 2

Rhonda Byrne, the main creator and producer of "The Secret", was originally inspired by a 1910 book called "The Science of Getting Rich," one of many books by success/motivational writer Wallace D. Wattles (1860-1911). Wattles, who believed a fulfilling life was not possible without wealth, wrote that a "normal" person cannot help wanting to be rich, and that if you don't become rich, "you are derelict in your duty to God, yourself and humanity." Although he did not mention the law of attraction by name in the book, he alluded to it: "It is a natural law that like causes produce like effects." He added, "Once you learn and obey these laws, you will get rich with mathematical certainty."

I think it worthy of note that Wattles, who died at a relatively young age, did not die rich. Perhaps he failed to do the math...

What they call "positive" thinking is actually just superstitious thinking and what they call metaphysics isn't metaphysics proper but rather a form of "pop" metaphysics. Psychologically, it may make sense to be more positive so you "attract" better people into your life. BUT... this idea, taken to the extremes it is in the movie, is misleading and just impractical. For example, you don't create abundance by wanting things. People usually want things to fill a void and you can't be content and in an abundant mind set while constantly wishing for things. Even psychologically, it just doesn't work that way.

It is true that once you put on, for example, the "rich mans" cap you start seeing financial opportunities you've never noticed before, but that's not a secret. Its common sense which can be explained practically without all the rhetoric of pseudo psychology.

I mean, the people who enable the magical thinking that surrounds this movie are either just being wishful or simply misled by semantics. You don't get a check in the mail from wishing for it. There are reasons checks come in the mail and it can usually be explained on a practical level instead of just saying "I've manifested cash!". lol. Uh, no you didn't. You co-operated with the world in such a way that enabled you to receive that cash. It doesn't just get created from the ego by wishing it too and then sitting on your butt.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Well, you may be right about how most people would respond. Personally, for me, I'm not afraid of a good argument, so if I ever saw a thread entitled, "Atheism is Bullshit," or "HBO is Bullshit," I'd dive right in because I'm confident enough in my beliefs to defend them if someone calls me out.

I don't think I've been rambling or incoherent, but if no one else responds, then I guess this thread is going to die...maybe next week I'll go to P&R and start a "Mormonism is Bullshit" thread and see what happens...

If your goal is arguing, that's entirely different than trying to discuss a set of beliefs with people and encourage them to see a different way. If you're just trying to argue then your wording is perfect.

One can be confident in their ability to defend their beliefs and still feel insulted when they're put in a position to have to defend them. To suggest that people who don't "dive right in" aren't confident in their ability to defend their beliefs is a blanket statement and is incorrect. Some people may not want an argument, but a rational, mature discussion, which seems to be something you're either unable or unwilling to give, so it's no surprise that people aren't standing in line to "debate" with you.