What "side of the road" do you feel you're on? -- Why can't we merge?

[CrystalLight]

As of late it has become more and more apparent that many of us feel as if we either "watching from the outside" or "standing on the other side of a crossroad". There's obviously one small path that connects us to each other; our tickling fetish.

But some still feel there is a division occurring. Why do you feel that way? And where in this community do you consider yourself?

I personally feel that there is a lot of miscommunication going on. We're locking horns and throwing words like 'inner circle' around because we're not taking the time to really get to know each other. Now, the reasons behind that are obviously our own.

I don't think anyone should feel as if they are on the outside. I also don't feel that those who enjoy expressing themselves in a way that might not be what some others prefer should be knocked into on a continuous basis.

I consider myself relatively neutral. I don't scan the member's list, picking and choosing who I want to consider a friend and who I want to dislike. I talk with a wide variety of people, some who choose to not be as present on board as others. The only ones I have issues with are the ones who've really fucked with me in the past, and that list is rather small.

I know that due to those who prefer to judge without really getting to know or those that make face value calls, that nothing will really change of that. However, it seems a majority of us WANT to be in a certain "place" whatever that place is.

I just want to know where everyone feels they stand and why. And if it's possible that we could somehow break down this 'wall' that so many folks feel they're on a certain side of.

We're supposed to be a community. Doesn't mean we have to always get along, but it doesn't mean we should feel divided. Not here. Not like this.

 

[cloudgazer2k]

in a way, i feel a bit on the outside due to the fact that, while i have a fairly active posting average, i have yet to meet (other than Goth, Sae, and another TMF member) outside of the 'net. the gathering/munch goers have a more intimate relationship with each other, have had many conversations with each other, and have a better understanding.

other than that, i don't believe in this whole clique/division nonsense. the only reason why people whine about there being anything of the sort is because they aren't given the recognition they think they deserve.

 

[Tamia78]

Okay...I'll bite--I hate the division as well.

I've been on this forum for about 4 years, I think. I have made friends I know will last a lifetime, and look forward to making new friends. I would consider myself neutral, I suppose, but lately I have felt like an "outsider looking in". It's probably due to a number of reasons, the most recent being my attempt to go to Bellas, and not being able to because of money issues. I had friends there I really wanted to see.

Of course we want to be accepted, loved....put in a "place" of sorts. We're human. We've been doing it since grade school.

I don't think any of us say, "Oh, I don't wanna be their friend" when we see certain people post, but I must admit I'm a little skeptical of meeting some people, just based on their posts. And I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of "picking and choosing" who to be friends with. I know I'm not.

Jo, this is a nice attempt at starting to get rid of the opposing views. I hope it works, Good luck!

--T

 

[LD_Tickler]

I've been visiting this forum regularly for longer than I've been legally allowed to. Much longer. So here's my guess.

A few years ago, there was "an inner circle," which like you've said is really just a group of people who are more tightly knit than others because they had met in real life. The NESTees, basically. However, back then, this group of people also seemed to correspond largely along age lines. It seemed that the gathering crew, this tightly knit "circle" were all the mature adult folk, the middle aged crew. This may not have been true, but that's how it appeared. As a result, this group seemed natural and organic, because it was just camaraderie between similar people.

Lately, there's been a noticeable upswing in younger forum activity. Subsequently, the circle of people who are close because of real-life friendships, the gathering bunch, no longer corresponds to age groups. So, the division between the real-life/gathering friends and the rest of us - which once appeared natural because it seemed to have to do with age - now seems to have formed at random. This creates a feeling of exclusion.

This is a total guess, but I really think the relevant factors must have to do with age, and real-life friendship.

 

[Cave In]

Theres definatly an "us and them" attitude starting to develop and naturally when such things happen there tends to be disagreements on issues he who shall not be spoken's banning seems to have inflamed this issue a fair bit.

Like I said on a previous thread, I've been here a long time and I've never been in amongst the big hitters on the forum, but thats because its something thats never bothered me but thats not to say I dont like coming here, quite the opposite.

Like LD said there was an inner circle back in the day: the old NESTee's and the people that had just be around on the net since the early days. Now there is a new younger group and whether they wish to admit it or not they've made a huge impact for better or for worse depending on the viewpoint.

I personally dont think i'm involved enough to take sides on recent events. But looking from the outside in its easy to see that recently two view points have been forming, and while i agree there is a group of individuals who seem to be a dominating force in the forum, I think the people who take issue with them are doing so for mostly the wrong reasons. It could be that they are jealous that they're not recieving attention from this group thats predominatly young and female, or maybe they're unhappy about the amount of change they are bringing to the forum, net culture etc,

However i have noticed that there seems to be a case of "lost puppy syndrome" going about in regards to this group. A few users who seem to be following them around craving there approval the yes people who want nothing more than to be accepted into this group. Something i find pathetic. But thankfully its a small minority.

I hope this thread generates discussion and doesnt turn into another flame session.

 

[cloudgazer2k]

I hope this thread generates discussion and doesnt turn into another flame session.

oh, it will. i could make a post about how awesome monkeys are, and someone would go into a rant and call me racist. some people hunt for something to get into a fit about, and it's a tad sad when it happens. shows that person has too much free time.

 

[TMF Jeff]

oh, it will. i could make a post about how awesome monkeys are, and someone would go into a rant and call me racist. some people hunt for something to get into a fit about, and it's a tad sad when it happens. shows that person has too much free time.

That sort of thing is not inevitable here. And it's sad that we've reached the point where people think it is.

 

[Miss Serendipity]

My thoughts:

Great Thread Jo!

For me personally, I don't neccessarily feel like there is a so called "cliques" happening. While I can see where people would get that assumption. I don't believe that's the case at all.

There are people in our community that have formed really close bonds with each other whether through the munches/gatherings or whatever other form that lead for them to be close and that is a fantastic thing. Does that make them a clique? Hell No. I don't see anyone going around excluded people from their so called circle either. It's just a group of friends who have an extremly close bond and It may just be me but: That's the kind of thing I love about communities especially this one. The fact that you can take a mutal love of something and turn it into something more like a deep, connected friendship. Seriously what could be better than that? to me that's the best of both worlds.

With that I can see how people would get the assumption that there are "cliques" which in turn can creates division. I totally agree that there is alot of mis-communication happening. I myself I am not the best conversationalist, which is why I tend to stay out of threads like this because I don't feel like my opinion really matters or that anyone is going to pay attention to it so for me to step out and reply to this just shows how much I value this community we have.

I choose to reply to this in particular because I whole-heartily feel what Jo is saying. We are a community and while clearly we are not always going to get along because we are all different people. heads are going butt sometimes. In truth, every person here who has made even the smallest contribution to the forum matters. It really comes down to respect. We don't have to agree all the time but I don't feel that people who have lifestyles or beliefs that some people may not perfer should be ragged on a consistant basis either.


On that subject I am completely nuetral. I don't go around picking who or who I don't want to be friends nor do I go around making assumptions based on what people say. Do I always agree with what people say? No but I don't go around bashing it either. As for where in the community I feel I am on: I honestly feel like I am on the "outside looking in" but not because I feel like there are cliques or people who are favored over others. As I said in the beggining over this people have made strong bonds with other forum member and there is nothing wrong with that. I feel like an outsider simply because I haven't be able to make that connection that others have been able to do.

I attest that the the fact that I really don't have much of a presence on the forum. I haven't really made myself known other than a few things here and there that for one reason or another didn't get the response.

Since my hiatus I have sorta come out of the wood work so to speak and I have started getting to know more people. Will I end up being close to them, that remains to be seen but if we do create that bond then I for one will be counting that as a blessing. You can bet it will be something I cherish!

I am not one to bash someone because I don't like or agree with what they do or say nor will I stand around and let people be bashed simply because there is a difference of opinion. that's just not right!

I personally feel the way Jo does. We shouldn't have to feel divided, especially not here. This a great community and one that I am truly grateful to have found. Why can't we just come together? Anyway, that's just my thoughts.

 

[alchemy]

Jo, what you have with the most recent incarnation of the TMF is a microcosm for humanity...nothing less, nothing more. There are going to be some people that are the groupie/clique-y types, there are going to be some people that are the angst-filled, left-out types, there are going to be the type that constantly seek the approval of others, and so on and so forth.

What we are witnessing is simply humanity in action. Right now, the TMF is bigger and more active than it's ever been. I mean, just look at the last NEST attendance! There was around 100 people that showed up...for a tickling gathering! That's unheard of! ..and that just like, what...1% of the population of the TMF? Anyway, because of the sheer size of this albatross, there are lots and lots of personalities being thrown into the mix...some handle this better than others.

I think LD made a good point about the "real-lifers" and the strickly forum people, as well. Because the NEST and gathering attendances have been rather large, as of late, there are a larger number of people who have made "real-life" friendships on the forum. With that comes more "in-jokes", more gathering references, more specific friend to friend banter, and so forth. Because of this, some non-gathering people begin to feel that the TMF is cliquish in nature...and in a way, it kinda is, but that's simply the nature of the beast. The thing that separates the TMF from the other tickling forums are the major gatherings and "get togethers". Therefore, there is NATURALLY going to be a division between the gathering folk and the strictly forum folk.

Also, we now have TMF Radio...and THAT'S ALSO perceived as a sort of clique.

You know....this is all kind of a fact of life, but it really doesn't have to be as bad as all that. Most of the problems we have around here seem to be linked to petty bickering and general immaturity. Personally, I have noticed that there are people on both sides of the argument that are in the wrong. There ARE NEST/gathering people that DO act cliquish and immature (as if they are back in high school or something) and they really need to fucking grow up. By the same token, there are people in the strictly forum group that love to bitch, whine, and moan all the fucking time and really need to either grow up or shut up.

It all seems to boil down to bullshit and immaturity...as does humanity itself.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

As someone who is very new to the forum in terms of actually being active, I feel like I have a grasp on both sides of this "wall" Jo is talking about.

Before I made the choice to become active on the forum and in the community, this was my view. I basically saw a few people who were very active and very outgoing appear to be pretty much running things around here. I felt like a friend of a friend of a friend at a party, where everyone knew eachother, and I knew no one. It was intimidating and overwhelming, and was one of the things that kept me posting so infrequently for so long. Now, I am in NO WAY blaming anybody for this. Just trying to convey my experience.

This fetish is something I'm still not comfortable with, as the vast majority of people can understand I'm sure, and I was exponentially more uncomfortable with it 6 or more months ago. To come here, and be uneasy in the first place, then be MORE uneasy because I felt like I was crashing a party to which I wasn't invited, made the active posters, especially with their strong personalites, very intimidating to me, and made me afraid to say "Hi - this is me - be my friend" LOL Looking back, I guess I was hoping someone would say "Look! New person!" and reach out to ME - but c'mon ya'll...with 80,000 members, really, that's freakin impossible.

It wasn't until very recently that some switch flipped and I just up and decided one day, I wanna be involved in this. I can't really tell you what changed, when or why. All I know is I gradually started posting more, going to radio shows, and before I knew it, I'd get into the radio chat and people would say "Skip! <3<3<3" It was definitely a gradual process. I remember being in radio chat and making a comment and being completely ignored. Well...ignored is the wrong word...unnoticed is more appropriate. I remember going through a time when I thought I was the official thread-killer of the TMF I felt like as soon as I would post in a thread, it would die. I thought, "No one cares enough about my opinion or experience to comment? Do I really not matter that much?" I remember thinking, "Hmm...maybe this really is an unpenetrable group of people." But for some reason completely unknown to me, I stayed and eventually got to know some amazing people.

I know that some people are sick and tired of hearing "If you want to make friends you have to post and be active in the community," but for me, that's what made the difference. I'm sure that there are folks out there who have made plenty of friends via the chatroom, or by just lurking in the discussion forums and PMing folks they thought were interesting. It'll be different for everyone, but my experience has been that you have to find a way to stand out. Everyone has something unique about them.

CrystalLight is constantly asking questions and trying to understand things.
LeeAllure and BrightEyes openly discuss their unique D/s relationship.
Eceu does the art thing.
Milagros posts in every thread imaginable.
Asutickler frequently refers to himself as a rhinocerous
KrazieDog, Robace and a bunch of others host radio shows.

These are all ways these very active members have found ways to stand out. In a group of 80,000 people, it's really alot easier than it seems. I'm sassy - I mouth off to people and get endlessly teased because my bark is about a bajillion times worse than my bite, but it's one of the ways I stand out. It's how I express my personality.

Basically, enjoy this site and community however you prefer. Post up a storm or don't post at all. Go to gatherings, meet privately, or don't ever leave the comfort of your computer screen, but either way, don't think that anything is holding you back from having whatever type of experience you want to have here.

In closing, if I can quote Pete's Dragon...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k5J8ZgRUQHA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k5J8ZgRUQHA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[venray]

What we are witnessing is simply humanity in action. Right now, the TMF is bigger and more active than it's ever been. I mean, just look at the last NEST attendance! There was around 100 people that showed up...for a tickling gathering! That's unheard of! ..and that just like, what...1% of the population of the TMF? Anyway, because of the sheer size of this albatross, there are lots and lots of personalities being thrown into the mix...some handle this better than others.

I think LD made a good point about the "real-lifers" and the strickly forum people, as well. Because the NEST and gathering attendances have been rather large, as of late, there are a larger number of people who have made "real-life" friendships on the forum. With that comes more "in-jokes", more gathering references, more specific friend to friend banter, and so forth. Because of this, some non-gathering people begin to feel that the TMF is cliquish in nature...and in a way, it kinda is, but that's simply the nature of the beast. The thing that separates the TMF from the other tickling forums are the major gatherings and "get togethers". Therefore, there is NATURALLY going to be a division between the gathering folk and the strictly forum folk.

Also, we now have TMF Radio...and THAT'S ALSO perceived as a sort of clique.

.

This is a big part of the way things are now, but look back to the beginning and you will see that there have always been these differences in the community. There has always been a sort of split between the lurkers and the non lurkers, the "foot" people and the "upper body" people, those that meet and those that will not, and those that try to become close friends and those that prefer to interact minimally or not at all.

This is nothing new. What IS new is the number of new people that have joined in the last couple of years along with the number of people who have changed from lurker status to prolific poster. Many have done so because they saw others having fun and decided it was time to jump in. Many feel "left out" because "putting themselves out there" is not their style and the are not comfortable with it.

A perfect example of these different styles is the way in which Tracy and I interact here. I talk to everyone whether it be in pm, public posting, phone, or email. I post on alll types of subjects and get involved whereever i can. Tracy has been a member here almost as long as I have and has less posts than members who have been around for just a few months. She doesnt get as involved in that aspect of forum life but is heavily involved in the community. She hosts a radio show and loves to get out and meet people at gatherings small or large.

We both have a lot of friends here of ALL ages, because we dont judge people by their age, lee or ler status, how often they post, whether they are into other fetishes or not, whether they are male or female, straight, gay, or bi or any other of many "labels" that people tend to use. We try to get to know people of all types because a true community is made up of many folks with differences that add to the community experience...

In short, there is much for everyone here and we should all get out of the community that which we want to and accept that we do not all want the same things in life......

 

[..Glamorous..]

I'm pretty good where I'm at, while I haven't met anyone from here -yet- I still feel pretty centered. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how I feel. I've very content and if there is crap going on I TRY to stay out of it. I have issue with only a small handful of people here, and it's something I would keep to myself so they didn't fell like they were "on the outside". I try to give everyone equal attention and make everyone I talk to feel welcomed.


Good thread by the way.

 

[Musicroxmysox]

Great idea Jo!

I've recently begun posting a lot more and getting involved. As a result I've been making lots more friends on the site. I already had some people that I talked to but now I have a couple of real close buddies that I talk to every day.

I do see where some people feel like there is a clique but there is not. It just so happens that it's a bunch of people who enjoy listening to the radio shows and stuff like that and thus they happen to be in the same place at the same time. If we were a clique there would be exclusion, but I have not once ever seen someone be told they can't be involved. Everyone is invited if they have an interest.

Furthermore I agree we all need to learn to be a little more grown up. The TMF shouldn't be a place for petty high school esque bull shit.

-M

 

[heyoka]

I think it's more a matter of perception than of a solid reality here. I've been around since 2001 and have been a fairly active poster until the last year or so when life and health issues have kept me from being online as much. I still have the same friends, along with a few more. I still have the same feelings about the community. I still have the same thoughts about those occassional trolls who come here to try to create friction. None of that has changed.

BUT... Being around and joining in the banter less can sometimes make me feel like I'm missing out on things. That's only natural. I think the real problem here (for most) is that they don't see that THEY are the ones in control of the remedy. It's the way WE choose to view things when we feel like we're missing out that matters.

If we choose to view it as being KEPT out, of course bad feelings are likely to follow. We can build that all up into some kind of conspiracy to deliberately exclude us. We can end up resenting the fun that others are having because we feel as though they're rubbing our noses in it. In short, we'll be miserable.

OTOH, if we recognize that it's simply normal social dynamics making us feel this way and that we have the ability to reach out just as much as anyone else, we're more likely to break through all of that false impression and join the fun. Like most things, communication and friendship building requires action on both sides. There are folks here I'd like to get to know better. But, until I have/take the time to do something about that myself, it's not that likely to happen.

I happen to be a very introverted person. I always have been. It takes me a good deal of time to really get to know and trust people. There are also personality traits that tend to send me running in the opposite direction...not because the person is trying to force me out, but because I simply don't react well to certain things. In a group this large, I obviously am going to find some of that here. I don't have any more right to demand that they change than they do to demand that I accept them. But, precisely because this group is so large, I also know that I'm likely to find plenty of others with whom I share much more than tickling.

That's how group dynamics work. Personalities meet. They either click or they don't. If they do, we build on that. If they don't, we have a choice. We can complain about it. We can walk away. We can work to overcome those differences. Or we can simply accept the reality that, in a group of 80,000 people, only a fraction of whom post regularly, there WILL be people we do or don't click with.

When we meet those with whom we don't happen to click, we can move on to someone else, rather than blaming them for our personality preferences. When we meet those with whom we do click, we need to do more than wait for them to come to us.

I see the word clique tossed around a lot here. To me a clique is a group that deliberately excludes others. I see very little of that here. What I DO see are people wanting to be a part of things but not necessarily wanting to do the work that is naturally involved in building relationships.

OK, I'm rambling. I'm going to shut up now. Bottom line. We ALL need to chill out and relax. Things take time and effort. Don't expect to receive if you aren't willing to give.

 

[Redmage]

Oh, I figure I'm mostly on the outside of any "cliques" there might be. Partly this is just because I usually seem to be a clique of one, on the wrong side of most others. But partly it's because I don't think you can be part of a clique and not know it - and I don't.

I'm at peace with this for the most part.

 

[falcon]

i am definitely on the outside looking in from the other side of the road. but that doesn't bother me and i kind of like it that way. not that i don't like being around people but if i had to choose, i'd be by myself. i've never fit in to the group-clique thing but that's ok by me. now i'm not saying that that's what is happening here on the forum and if it is, again, don't bother me any. we're a diverse group and we all bring something different to the table. that, i think, would be one of our greatest strengths. don't know if that made ANY senese at all but that's all i have to contribute at this time.

 

[BlackestLily]

I cant do things like post lots of pictures or go to gatherings. The ones I have up now aren't even recent. I think a more real connection in life is what bonds many of you, but I'm also a teacher and I can't compromise parental comfort in the light of making friends on a fetish forum unfortunately. So I post where I feel I can contribute and I hold no will ill against anyone of either side....but I don't think I'll ever be a major contributor, whether I want to be or not. It is what it is I guess.

It tends to be intimidating to break through to make friends here. It's not impossible, but I see many have experiences and connections, and most (not all) who have bothered talking to me only wish to talk about the fetish. After a while it gets creepy (maybe that's the wrong word....obsessive?), and now that I have a boyfriend I have no desire to talk about the fetish at all with others. So I guess in my mind I couldn't give reasoning to try and break in on friend circles as I'm sure they are content with how they are. Just past experience speaking.

 

[Strider]

I've been here for over 4 1/2 years already, not as long as some, but longer than many.

I don't consider myself on any side or another because I really don't think there are sides. I don't believe any sort of clique exists; I never have believed that, and unless something really drastic occurs, I doubt I ever will believe that. I'm not on here as frequently as some, but I come on and socialize with people as much as my other commitments allow me to do (and I've been going to gatherings with folks in the SoCal community for almost 3 years now). I'd like to do it more, but the fact that I don't is a result of how I rank my own priorities.

I could probably count on one hand the number of people I've seen attempt to be regular posters and end up getting themselves ostracized from the community in general, and in literally all of those cases, it was the result of that person behaving in a way they shouldn't have. And even then, people can redeem themselves. The general tone here is usually a lot more forgiving then I would sometimes be.

 

[Adam]

Very good thread we have here. I'm not going to add anything that hasn't already been said, since I really feel that Alchemy and I are on the same page concerning why people feel as they do. And man, let me tell you, I'm right there with Tamia in being saddened by the division. I won't say I've never passed judgment, but I try not to.

As for myself, I feel as though I'm pretty much in the middle of the road waiting to cross over. I've got a good number of friends, as well as those that really don't care for me. I've talked with a handful of you over the phone, but have yet to meet you. So I suppose I feel as though I could be on the cusp, so to speak. Time shall tell.

 

[Excess]

As someone who is very new to the forum in terms of actually being active, I feel like I have a grasp on both sides of this "wall" Jo is talking about.

Before I made the choice to become active on the forum and in the community, this was my view. I basically saw a few people who were very active and very outgoing appear to be pretty much running things around here. I felt like a friend of a friend of a friend at a party, where everyone knew eachother, and I knew no one. It was intimidating and overwhelming, and was one of the things that kept me posting so infrequently for so long. Now, I am in NO WAY blaming anybody for this. Just trying to convey my experience.

This fetish is something I'm still not comfortable with, as the vast majority of people can understand I'm sure, and I was exponentially more uncomfortable with it 6 or more months ago. To come here, and be uneasy in the first place, then be MORE uneasy because I felt like I was crashing a party to which I wasn't invited, made the active posters, especially with their strong personalites, very intimidating to me, and made me afraid to say "Hi - this is me - be my friend" LOL Looking back, I guess I was hoping someone would say "Look! New person!" and reach out to ME - but c'mon ya'll...with 80,000 members, really, that's freakin impossible.

It wasn't until very recently that some switch flipped and I just up and decided one day, I wanna be involved in this. I can't really tell you what changed, when or why. All I know is I gradually started posting more, going to radio shows, and before I knew it, I'd get into the radio chat and people would say "Skip! <3<3<3" It was definitely a gradual process. I remember being in radio chat and making a comment and being completely ignored. Well...ignored is the wrong word...unnoticed is more appropriate. I remember going through a time when I thought I was the official thread-killer of the TMF I felt like as soon as I would post in a thread, it would die. I thought, "No one cares enough about my opinion or experience to comment? Do I really not matter that much?" I remember thinking, "Hmm...maybe this really is an unpenetrable group of people." But for some reason completely unknown to me, I stayed and eventually got to know some amazing people.

I know that some people are sick and tired of hearing "If you want to make friends you have to post and be active in the community," but for me, that's what made the difference. I'm sure that there are folks out there who have made plenty of friends via the chatroom, or by just lurking in the discussion forums and PMing folks they thought were interesting. It'll be different for everyone, but my experience has been that you have to find a way to stand out. Everyone has something unique about them.

CrystalLight is constantly asking questions and trying to understand things.
LeeAllure and BrightEyes openly discuss their unique D/s relationship.
Eceu does the art thing.
Milagros posts in every thread imaginable.
Asutickler frequently refers to himself as a rhinocerous
KrazieDog, Robace and a bunch of others host radio shows.

These are all ways these very active members have found ways to stand out. In a group of 80,000 people, it's really alot easier than it seems. I'm sassy - I mouth off to people and get endlessly teased because my bark is about a bajillion times worse than my bite, but it's one of the ways I stand out. It's how I express my personality.

Basically, enjoy this site and community however you prefer. Post up a storm or don't post at all. Go to gatherings, meet privately, or don't ever leave the comfort of your computer screen, but either way, don't think that anything is holding you back from having whatever type of experience you want to have here.

In closing, if I can quote Pete's Dragon...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k5J8ZgRUQHA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k5J8ZgRUQHA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I have to say, I think this whole thing comes alot closer to many people's experiences than what many seem to believe. As I've seen people post about this subject I've noticed a fairly typical type of belief that those who are 'on the outside' are just 'jealous and bitter'. This could apply to some, yeah, but writing off so many like this is a huge mistake. People are generally more complex than that, and shouldn't have their reasons so easily dismissed as though it was that simple.

Now I've heard from alot of people on the matter, and with them coming from different places, I've gained a bit of insight on the matter from the perspective of those 'on the outside'. And with alot of people, it isn't simply due to jealousy or whatever. I'mma note 3 of the more common reasons are:

1. A feeling that they can't ever be noticed. In general, like Skippy said. People generally want to be taken for what they have to say, rather than who is saying it. One member can say something extremely profound, yet be completely ignored. But if a more popular member says the exact same thing, it gets a ton of responses. This isn't them wanting to be attention whores, but simply wanting to know that their words aren't going unheard (or unread <_<). And this can be difficult when you've got a large number of really close individuals who generally bounce back and forth off of each other, and the feeling can become that since they haven't had the chance to become a part of such, their words would generally be ignored in favor of those, and thus they might as well not bother posting.

2. Some might disagree too heavily with certain individuals and, for a number of reasons, may turn away from the forum due to it. Such conflicts may impact their perceptions or other's perceptions of them. This is especially true if it's a popular member, who's word carries alot more weight than the less popular one's, and thus giving them power to generally damage and even destroy the less popular one's ability to interact with others. The problem with this is that there are two sides to every story, so listening to one side and writing the other side off generally isn't fair to the other. And the even bigger problem is holding them to this, forgetting that people can move on and get passed those problems, and letting go of such feelings.

3. A genuine dislike of a certain aspect of TMF. Let's just be honest here, it isn't a perfect forum. Nowhere is perfect. Quite frankly, I think that some of those really ingrained into the forum can get a bit too defensive of it, to a point to where if anyone says anything not positive about it, they unleash a river of flames upon the person. That in itself can be a turn-off (hehehe...turn-off...). I think that instead of going on the attack against people who already see it so clearly that way (possibly as clearly as you see it being wrong), just accept that not everyone likes everything or has as great an experience as you have, and instead focus on highlighting the positive aspects of the forum.

Now, with all that said, I myself am most likely an outsider. However, this isn't really due to anyone excluding me as it is me simply not really attempting to 'get back in'. Yes, I do believe I was 'in' at a time. But at this point, I dunno where I'll go. I generally make it a point to try and talk to anyone who will actually speak. Of course I haven't been around as much in the last while due to LIFE of all things, but eh. I guess all you can really do is do your own thing and see how others react to it, for better or worse.

*breaths in* tl;dr Do your own thing and to hell everything else. Damn I'm becoming long-winded in my old age...

 

[slap'n'ticklee]

There have been some very good replies here and ones I agree with, especially 'Excess'. I just wish I could write it as cleanly as you have mate

I am myself when wandering around the forum; quite frankly I can't understand how someone could be someone they aren't, but I know people are like that and do do it.

I've noticed some group of pals sticking together and following each other around the threads, to be honest, at first I used to get a bit miffed about it, but now I don't care. A lot of people here have forged some great friendships and I suppose when you get to meet in person, that is an even tighter bond and then it becomes obvious to whomever happens by to read the threads.

I was a shy one at first, especially at posting my own threads (granted there haven't been many ) I just assumed that no one would take any interest in what I had to say or even bother to reply and I was right as I didn't get many replies, the way it goes I guess.

Its not very pleasant at reading the threads when it becomes a slinging match between some, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and shouldn't feel shunned or people coming down in an aggresive way when someone does voice an opinion.

There are so many interesting people on this forum with so many different backgrounds and great advice and consoling when others when its needed.

In answer to the original question, I'm an outsider and am an independent and have a good few pals here that I have a really good banter with and I'm quite happy with that

 

[kered]

I don't consider myself as watching from the side of the road but rather walking down the road and exploring the paths I come across. I make myself availiable to all for laughs,friendship, or even my own self ridicule and have never touched the ignore button. I feel that here as in real life you have to out yourself in a position to be reached before you reach out to others and with a very few exceptions this has worked out pretty well. So no, I don't feel I'm looking in from the outside. None of the paths are blocked so I just walk right down them to see what's going on. I post opinions, ask questions, answer questions, and except for my stupid photo manipulations approach this place as I would anything in real life. My friends here are of all ages, races, and both sexes. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Bugman]

 

[Cy/MiG]

x <---this is the supposed 'clique'

.............................................y <---This represents those 'outside the supposed clique'

z <---This represents those who don't want to get involved



.............................................w <---This represents those don't really care









<---This is me, trying to sleep, but I keep getting waken up by commotion.

So now I'm and forced to watch the madness, whilst kicking back and making popcorn.

Speaking of which... here it is!

 

[Cy/MiG]

You know....this is all kind of a fact of life, but it really doesn't have to be as bad as all that. Most of the problems we have around here seem to be linked to petty bickering and general immaturity. Personally, I have noticed that there are people on both sides of the argument that are in the wrong. There ARE NEST/gathering people that DO act cliquish and immature (as if they are back in high school or something) and they really need to fucking grow up. By the same token, there are people in the strictly forum group that love to bitch, whine, and moan all the fucking time and really need to either grow up or shut up.

It all seems to boil down to bullshit and immaturity...as does humanity itself.

Everybody watch this, because I'm about to bust out an Internet acronymns that I would otherwise NEVER use:

QFTW!!!

P.S. I just learned what that meant like 3 days ago...