16-year-old solo sailor Abbey Sunderland reportedly lost at sea

[leafstk]

I'm just glad to know she's okay and will be returning home safely 🙂

 

[Mitchell]

Master Baiter, I rarely agree with you, but, I actually agree with what you said.

Earlier today, someone I work with made the point you just did . He said to me: Who is going to pay for the search and rescue teams that invested time and money to save Miss Sunderland? In his view, the taxpayers should not be forced to foot the bill for her rescue. In any other situation where a minor causes damage, and incurs financial expenses due to such, the parents foot the bill for the minor's escapades. The same is true here.

Mr and Mrs Sunderland should get the bill, and then all of them should visit a competent shrink, to discuss what the hell they were all thinking, by letting a 16 year old go on a journey like that.

Mitch

 

[primetime]

I'm glad to see some people acknowledge the fact that the Sunderland's made a huge mistake allowing their children to undertake a crazy adventure. What the supporters of this lunacy have yet to answer is, "If it was you, and you let your child do this adventure, and they died, how could you live with yourself knowing you could have prevented the whole thing?"

Supporters say she was "trained" and "mature". She's SIXTEEN people. If she was mature and trained, then she can go when she is EIGHTEEN and I can't legally stop her. You might as well allow your kid to get dropped off in the middle of some rough neighborhood and let them spend the week there to see if they can survive. They are trained in martial arts, so they can defend themselves. Would you still let them go?

Or, they have been working with lions at the zoo for all of their lives. Now, they want to spend a week in the African wilderness with lion prides with a zebra steak tied to them dripping blood.

Their parents should definitely pay the bill for the search and rescue teams. It was their dumb ass decision to let her go in the first place...

 

[Redmage]

I'm glad to see some people acknowledge the fact that the Sunderland's made a huge mistake allowing their children to undertake a crazy adventure. What the supporters of this lunacy have yet to answer is, "If it was you, and you let your child do this adventure, and they died, how could you live with yourself knowing you could have prevented the whole thing?"

Probably the same way parents do when they let their child play high-school football, and that child is killed or paralyzed by an accident during a game. And there's a whole lot more of those parents. Clearly high-school sports constitute child endangerment.

I think Abby put it best on her blog: "As for age, since when does age create gigantic waves and storms?"

The young woman traveled the better part of 30,000 miles on her own. It seems to me that no one who couldn't do the same is any position to judge her qualifications. Or to put it another way: she did what perhaps one "adult" in 100 could have done, so judging her as though she was an ordinary 16 year old is fairly silly.

What happened to Abby had nothing to do with her age. And it had nothing to do with the fact that she was alone. Her calm and professional response to the accident, and what she had accomplished up to that point, say far more about her and about her parents' judgment.

And I hope that anyone who answers this will tell me when they last traveled 30,000 miles by water.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Parents do things their own way. I'd allow it if I felt the kid was skilled, mature enough to handle it. She did everything right after the mishap happened, proving even further that she belongs in the sea even at such a young age.

 

[goddess_nemesis]

You know, it's interesting how the minute something goes wrong, everyone pounces on it. Up until this was posted, I had no idea a 16-year-old girl was trying to become the young person to sail around the world.

I'm glad to know that they found Abby safe and sound. What happened to her could have happened to any sailor. You can't control the weather.

Supporters say she was "trained" and "mature". She's SIXTEEN people. If she was mature and trained, then she can go when she is EIGHTEEN and I can't legally stop her.

What difference would two years make, other than it would have been too late for her to set the record and that her parents wouldn't have been able to stop her? You can't compare this girl to the average 16-year-old.

 

[sabyra]

As already mentioned before, the whole "age-thing" was already a topic a few month ago.. I'm just glad she is safe and sound! That is all that matters now!

 

[MrMacphisto]

Probably the same way parents do when they let their child play high-school football, and that child is killed or paralyzed by an accident during a game. And there's a whole lot more of those parents. Clearly high-school sports constitute child endangerment.

I think Abby put it best on her blog: "As for age, since when does age create gigantic waves and storms?"

The young woman traveled the better part of 30,000 miles on her own. It seems to me that no one who couldn't do the same is any position to judge her qualifications. Or to put it another way: she did what perhaps one "adult" in 100 could have done, so judging her as though she was an ordinary 16 year old is fairly silly.

What happened to Abby had nothing to do with her age. And it had nothing to do with the fact that she was alone. Her calm and professional response to the accident, and what she had accomplished up to that point, say far more about her and about her parents' judgment.

And I hope that anyone who answers this will tell me when they last traveled 30,000 miles by water.

lol... 100% agreed.

 

[Master Baiter]

Probably the same way parents do when they let their child play high-school football, and that child is killed or paralyzed by an accident during a game. And there's a whole lot more of those parents. Clearly high-school sports constitute child endangerment.

You're comparing high school sports to sailing around the world solo?!
That's like comparing crossing the street to flying to the moon in a homemade rocket.

I think the bigger picture here is "calculated risk".
Although injuries happen in all sports, paralysis is very rare and happens to a small percentage.

In global solo sailing, encountering severe storms is a given. That she survived doesn't make her a hero, it makes her incredibly lucky.

This young girl was just trying to one-up her brother, and her parents went along with the insanity.

I have a real problem with the other lives (equal to her own) she put in jeopardy for a headline grabbing stunt.

And I hope that anyone who answers this will tell me when they last traveled 30,000 miles by water.

If that's a prerequisite for offering an opinion on this topic then only a handful of people on planet earth qualify, and you, Mr. Red, are not one of them either.

 

[venray]

I have a real problem with the other lives (equal to her own) she put in jeopardy for a headline grabbing stunt.




If that's a prerequisite for offering an opinion on this topic then only a handful of people on planet earth qualify, and you, Mr. Red, are not one of them either.

The same then could be said for those that climb mountains and get lost and put others at risk who try to save them..only difference is that most of them are "adults"...

Abby had enough experience, skill, and support to take the risk.....though I myself would not let my child take such a risk, I can see where the odds were more in her favor than not...

As to "having a problem" with her or her parents, you of course have the right to express your opinion....as does everyone else...but in the long run, our opinions carry little weight..

 

[Master Baiter]

The same then could be said for those that climb mountains and get lost and put others at risk who try to save them..only difference is that most of them are "adults"...

Abby had enough experience, skill, and support to take the risk.....though I myself would not let my child take such a risk, I can see where the odds were more in her favor than not...

As to "having a problem" with her or her parents, you of course have the right to express your opinion....as does everyone else...but in the long run, our opinions carry little weight..

I agree with all of this Mr. Venray.

Of course, this is a discussion forum and I don't expect my opinions to really matter in the long run.

The fact that you wouldn't let your kid do it speaks volumes.

The cost of this whole excursion must be friggin' staggering.
And not just the boat either.

 

[primetime]

Red, pay attention to what I am trying to get across. I am not blaming the young girl for wanting to go out and try something. I am sure she is a better sailor than your average 16 year old.

I blame her parents. You must be insane to think playing football is the same as sailing solo around the world on a sailboat. The whole point I am trying to get across is that there is no way her parents should have allowed her to go. Answer my question. As a parent, could you live with yourself if you child died attempting to do something few adults try, and they die? Could you live with yourself knowing you had full control to prevent the whole damn thing? I would have to check out mentally if that happened to my child. I could never look at myself in the mirror and know I could have easily prevented this from happening. Sailing around the world SOLO is dangerous for any age. Adult, kid, whatever. The POINT is, how can parents be allowed to make this judgement without being charged for child endangerment?

So if this is ok, the next time I see people criticize (as an example) a parent for leaving their 7 year old in the car, while they go grocery shopping for an hour, I will bring up this Sunderland situation. The 7 year old could be ok in a car. They could have coloring books, and the window is open. Why is that any different than letting your kid sail around the world?

My point has nothing to do with her ability. My point is the parents should be charged with child endangerment. That is why I am upset. There is a double standard. Kids can sail solo around the world without adult supervision, but you leave a kid home alone for an hour and you're getting charged. Dumb ass logic.

So Red, do you understand now? Probably not..... Be honest and answer my aformentioned questions about how would you feel if your child died in this situation.

 

[venray]

I agree with all of this Mr. Venray.

Of course, this is a discussion forum and I don't expect my opinions to really matter in the long run.

The fact that you wouldn't let your kid do it speaks volumes.

The cost of this whole excursion must be friggin' staggering.
And not just the boat either.

Agreed....

 

[Mitchell]

Parents will make bad decisions. Parents, just like anyone, are human beings.

When I was a teenager, my father actually used to encourage me to learn how to drink. (Maybe because he himself was a heavy drinker at the time). He'd say to me: "You can have any alcohol that's in the house, so long as you dont give it to your friends, and you dont drink and drive". He thought it was important to become what he called a "responsible social drinker". I did have a few small drinks from time to time, but I've only been legally drunk once in my life, when I was 20.

Was he "endangering his child" by encouraging his teenage son to drink? I dont know. Funny thing is, I hate drinking, and I dont do it, by choice, because I'm on BP meds, and drinking makes me sick.

My father's encouraging me to drink: Bad decision. Ms Sunderland's parents letting her sail solo around the world? Really bad decision. Child endangerment, in my view.

Mitch

 

[Redmage]

Red, pay attention to what I am trying to get across. I am not blaming the young girl for wanting to go out and try something. I am sure she is a better sailor than your average 16 year old.

I blame her parents.

Nope, I got what you were saying. That's why I said you were wrong.

You acknowledge her sailing skills. Therefore it stands to reason that her parents' decision should not be judged as though she were your average 16 year old. But you insist on doing so.

You must be insane to think playing football is the same as sailing solo around the world on a sailboat.

Why? Dead is dead. It hardly matters how they get that way. And young people die or end up paralyzed every year playing football. So why is it any less "child endangerment" to let their kids do it when they know full well how dangerous it is?

Answer my question. As a parent, could you live with yourself if you child died attempting to do something few adults try, and they die? Could you live with yourself knowing you had full control to prevent the whole damn thing?

I assume you must be talking about playing football. It's something that few adults try, and that could kill them. If my child was killed playing football, and I knew I had full control to prevent the whole damn thing, I'd feel pretty bad. I hope I could live with myself.

But, if I knew my child was well-trained, well-prepared, and had the best possible equipment, I would probably still let them do it if it was important to them.

 

[Redmage]

You're comparing high school sports to sailing around the world solo?!
That's like comparing crossing the street to flying to the moon in a homemade rocket.

I think the bigger picture here is "calculated risk".
Although injuries happen in all sports, paralysis is very rare and happens to a small percentage.

What percentage of solo sailors dies? If you want to go on "calculated risk," then what's the basis for your calculation?

Or is it perhaps just a knee-jerk reaction based on her age, and the sailing skills of most 16 year olds?

If that's a prerequisite for offering an opinion on this topic then only a handful of people on planet earth qualify, and you, Mr. Red, are not one of them either.

I offer my opinion based on what she accomplished. She was good enough to sail 30,000 miles by herself. That automatically puts her outside the class of average 16 year olds that people are using as the basis for their opinions here.

I don't have to be able to precisely evaluate her skills to know that she is way beyond the standards you're using to judge her. The fact that she has done what she has done demonstrates that. On the other hand, if you continue to insist that she's not qualified, given that record, then I'd like to see your credentials before I give that opinion any weight.

 

[primetime]

Red, are you serious? Are you honestly trying to compare playing football to saling around the world solo? Seriously? Let's compare. You have thousands of kids and adults playing football every year. Now, how many are kids/adults are sailing around the world in a sailboat. They are entirely different things. Football associations try to prevent injuries with training, equipment, etc. There is risk of course, but compared to the freakin ocean? Dude, you really need to think about that comparison a bit more closely.

Again, you didn't answer my question. Go back and read it again, then answer it.

16 is 16 is 16. I don't give a damn if she is "trained". There is a much higher risk of her dying than there is of her surviving. There is no way in the world I would let my child do something as crazy as that. I wouldn't let them climb Mt. Everest either. I wouldn't let my kid go play with a pride of lions either, no matter how much "training" she had with lions at a zoo. There are some things a parent should not let their kids do. Had Abbey wanted to sail around the world with a group of people, I MIGHT think about it. But alone? On a sailboat? With no other person to help her in case of emergency? HELL NO.

Tell me Red, the next time a parent leaves their 10 year old kid at home alone with no adult supervision for 6 hours, are you going to say the parents did nothing wrong? Anytime someone is accused of child endangerment, are you going to come to their defense? I hope so.....

 

[Fire_Sprite]

Red, are you serious? Are you honestly trying to compare playing football to saling around the world solo? Seriously? Let's compare. You have thousands of kids and adults playing football every year. Now, how many are kids/adults are sailing around the world in a sailboat. They are entirely different things. Football associations try to prevent injuries with training, equipment, etc. There is risk of course, but compared to the freakin ocean? Dude, you really need to think about that comparison a bit more closely.

The amount of people who indulge in a hobby has no bearing on how dangerous it is. A lot of kids of varying ages sail their own boats by themselves.

Again, you didn't answer my question. Go back and read it again, then answer it.

The reason nobody's answering your question is because it's wholly irrelevant. I'm sure her parents would feel horrible if something happened to her. But are they supposed to deny their daughter just because they don't want to be responsible if something goes wrong?

16 is 16 is 16. I don't give a damn if she is "trained".

Good thing they didn't ask you then. Sailors on the other hand place a great deal of emphasis on being properly trained. I daresay they find it more important then on being old enough to vote.

There is a much higher risk of her dying than there is of her surviving.

So all those other teenagers who did it were just flukes?

the next time a parent leaves their 10 year old kid at home alone with no adult supervision for 6 hours, are you going to say the parents did nothing wrong? Anytime someone is accused of child endangerment, are you going to come to their defense? I hope so.....

I'd say, just like with 16 year old sailing the world, it depends on the kid. Has that ten year old been left on their own before without incident? Do they know what to do in an emergency? Can they contact help if something goes wrong? If so then yes, that 10 year old should be able to to not die for six hours.

 

[primetime]

No, the reason why no one is answering that question is because they wouldn't be able to live with themselves by allowing their child to undertake something as highly dangerous as sailing across the world on a sailboat. Losing a child is one of the most painful things ever. When a parent loses a child, they tend to think about what they could have done to prevented it. In this case, these dunderheads allowed it to happen. Parents protect their children, and sometimes no matter how much the kid begs to do something, parents MUST DO WHAT IS RIGHT, even if it means saying "no". Kid wanting to drive? Some parents say no. But everyone drives. Why on this planet do people think sailing around the world is some easy task and practically everyone can do it? There is no point in allowing either of the Sunderland children to go sailing around the world.

Why do people not see this as child endangerment? Yet again, if someone leaves their kid home alone, or in a car for an hour or so, people throw a hissy fit and scream child endangerment. But sailing around the world in a sailboat is sooooo much better.

Again, to all the people who supported this dumb ass decision by the Sunderland parents, I hope I never see you criticize other parents being accused of child endangerment.

 

[Redmage]

Red, are you serious? Are you honestly trying to compare playing football to saling around the world solo? Seriously? Let's compare. You have thousands of kids and adults playing football every year. Now, how many are kids/adults are sailing around the world in a sailboat.

More to the point, how many of them die?

I'll tell you: zero. Since 1965, roughly a dozen people 19 years of age or younger (10 of them under 18) have attempted to sail around the world solo. 8 made it. Zero died. None, zip, nada. None were even injured; they just had to call off the trip, like Abby did.

Abby's brother Zac did it last year. He was 16 when he started, 17 at the end.

In contrast, young people die or are paralyzed in high school football every single year. The risks are clear and well-known.

Sorry, I see no reason not to compare them. Parents know, absolutely, that they are allowing their children to risk their lives for the sake of a varsity letter jacket.

Again, you didn't answer my question. Go back and read it again, then answer it.

I read it. I answered it. If you don't like the answer that's not my problem.

16 is 16 is 16. I don't give a damn if she is "trained".

I know you don't; I've said this about you myself right here on this thread. You pretend that skill and training beyond that of most adults makes no difference. That's silly - plainly ridiculous on its face. It's only marginally less idiotic than pretending that you're more qualified to judge Abby's ability than her sailing parents are.

Of course training and equipment matter - that's why we insist that people get training for things like driving a car or performing surgery. But you make believe that it's irrelevant. And that's why you're wrong.

 

[primetime]

Red, that has to be the most ridiculous comparison I have ever seen. Football vs sailing around an ocean on a sailboat. Humans clashing pads and exhibiting athletic skill versus mother nature. You know, the saddest thing is, you honestly believe that is an accurate comparison.

How about this? Would you let your kid go into the African wilderness alone to "tame" a lion pride? The kid has worked with lions at the zoo for most of their lives. This is more of a comparison to Ms. Sunderland's adventure than playing a sport. You making that comparison is just stupid. Why?

You say zero kids died sailing around the world. Well, did you know more people die falling down the freakin stairs every year than sailing? That comparison is just as ridiculous as your football comparison. Think about this. You mentioned 10 people under the age of 18 have attempted it. Yet, you pull out stupid statistics about people dying in football. Do me a favor Red, how many kids are playing High School football in this country? That's right, tens of thousands. Your comparison is is flat out ridiculous.

I need you to pay attention Red. Seriously. Pay attention. My point is not about Abbey's skill. It is about her parents, who are responsible for their MINOR child, allowing her to undertake one of the most dangerous things any human can do. I seriously want to know why this is not child endangerment? Youh ave ducked that whole point. Tell me Red, how come their decision is not child endangerment?

 

[goddess_nemesis]

No, the reason why no one is answering that question is because they wouldn't be able to live with themselves by allowing their child to undertake something as highly dangerous as sailing across the world on a sailboat. Losing a child is one of the most painful things ever. When a parent loses a child, they tend to think about what they could have done to prevented it. In this case, these dunderheads allowed it to happen. Parents protect their children, and sometimes no matter how much the kid begs to do something, parents MUST DO WHAT IS RIGHT, even if it means saying "no". Kid wanting to drive? Some parents say no. But everyone drives. Why on this planet do people think sailing around the world is some easy task and practically everyone can do it? There is no point in allowing either of the Sunderland children to go sailing around the world.

So if Abby had been 18 while she sailing around the world and her boat was destroyed by a storm in which she is killed, her parents would feel less guilt because she was an adult and they couldn't stop her???

Every situation is different and every child is different. Parents base their decisions on what they allow their child(ren) to do on their maturity and skills. If a parent doesn't allow their child to drive, I would guess they're basing it on a number of factors that you and I don't know. Sunderlands allowed their children to sail around the world because they trusted their children's maturity and skills. Yes, they would feel horrible if either son or daughter had died attempting this feat, but they would also know it wouldn't have been because of something they did but because of something no one could prevent.

It's mind boggling to most people because sailing around the world is practically unheard of. Kind of in the same way how plane crashes are sensationalized when one happens. Then everyone starts thinking "omg, flying is dangerous" when really it isn't.

 

[asutickler]

Hell, my dad joined the United States Marine Corps. on his 17th birthday... I've got no real problem with her age, as long as she knew what she was doing. (Which apparently she did.)

 

[Cy/MiG]

Yet, you pull out stupid statistics about people dying in football.

Stupid statistics.

Damn concrete evidence!

I'll stick to Jobu, thank you very much... speaking of which, he needs refill.

 

[Master Baiter]

What percentage of solo sailors dies? If you want to go on "calculated risk," then what's the basis for your calculation?

Or is it perhaps just a knee-jerk reaction based on her age, and the sailing skills of most 16 year olds?

My basis is common sense. Sailing around the world by yourself, regardless of age, is inherently a very dangerous thing to do. I think we can all agree on that.

I offer my opinion based on what she accomplished. She was good enough to sail 30,000 miles by herself. That automatically puts her outside the class of average 16 year olds that people are using as the basis for their opinions here.

There is no doubt she has a certain amount of skill and was well-equipped and prepared. Even so, you can't deny what happened came perilously close to taking her life.
Taking that into consideration, how you can say it was still a good decision to attempt a headline-grabbing stunt like this is beyond reasonable judgment.

It also begs the question "If she's so dammed skilled, how did she end up sailing headlong into such awful weather and ultimately capsizing her yacht?"
She's obviously not as skilled as she or her parents thought.

I don't have to be able to precisely evaluate her skills to know that she is way beyond the standards you're using to judge her. The fact that she has done what she has done demonstrates that. On the other hand, if you continue to insist that she's not qualified, given that record, then I'd like to see your credentials before I give that opinion any weight.

I don't feel I'm required to submit a list of credentials to chime in with an opinion on a discussion forum.

I wouldn't dream of putting any minor in a position like this, regardless of skill level. It's easy for you to say you would because the chances of it actually happening are Zilch (assuming you even have children).

Let's discuss the facts instead of debating who's more qualified.

It's a fact her ship capsized, she was stranded, and had to be rescued.
It's also a fact others selflessly risked their lives attempting to save hers.

Her egotistical parents should have to pay dearly for her rescue.

I also doubt Abbey learned anything from her ordeal. All she could talk about afterward was her damn boat. That statement spotlights her true maturity and self-centered attitude.

Which brings me to ask myself "What was the point of this whole fiasco?"

Oh yeah, to break a record her brother set.
What a family.