A couple questions about "Hard Limits".

[CrystalLight]

I don't think a Dom/me is going to start tickling you and then go right for your jugular, at least without discussing that aspect beforehand.

I was more or less referring to areas on a person's body. But the mention of Ligature strangulation piqued my curiousity, so I asked what that was.

In reference to serious BDSM play, I'm sure it's not just something you jump right into without prior discussions with your Top.

 

[LeeAllure]

My hard limits have always been children, animals, drugs, scat, watersports,
broken bones, permanent injury (mental or physical) and most things illegal.
Most, because at least in Massachusetts, someone cannot consent to being
battered, and a lot of s/m play would be considered such.

There are probably other things I won't do, due to a high squick factor on
my part, (food and clown play hold zero interest for me) but I've generally
been pretty open to all sorts of things as a sadist and reaction junkie.

Lee

 

[milagros317]

In reference to serious BDSM play, I'm sure it's not just something you jump right into without prior discussions with your Top.

Exactly. In many commercial dungeons you fill out a detailed questionnaire (of around 4 or 5 pages) in which you state both your interests and your limits, hard and soft.

 

[Redmage]

What I find slightly scary about this thread is that I have what I thought were a couple of hard limits as a Lee. However people in this thread keep mentioning new ones that I haven't though of before, but would DEFINATELY be a hard limit. Does that mean that if you hadn't thought of them at the time the Domme would have carte blanche to do whatever.

No. Limits can be renegotiated at any time.

 

[CrystalLight]

No. Limits can be renegotiated at any time.

Then what's the point of having a Hard Limit?

 

[TMF Jeff]

Hard Limits are places or areas on a person that is strictly "off limits" to a 'Ler, right?

If this is so, what happens to them during a torture scene? Are those Hard Limits automatically null and void for the session?

If so, what's the point of having them if you know you are going to or want to try a scene of that magnitude?

Does it make having them kind of pointless, at least for that time?

Do you Lees have any Hard Limits?

Do 'Lers have Hard Limits??

Having read all the replies and had a chance to digest them, what are your answers to these questions?

 

[CrystalLight]

There are no hard limits. Just momentary limits that change with every scene and person. Some stick, many do not. Some are solid, most are interchangeable.

 

[Tortuga]

my hard limit is obviously my armpits. after a couple short minutes being tickled there it almost becomes painful in a way to be tickled there because it's so bad. normally it's a strict hard limit with people i allow to tickle me and don't know too well. but people like Jeff, Lee, Bella, Snail, etc. are people that i trust because they know how bad it is, and it's their choice to realize when it's making me upset. in some videos i've done, you'll see that my armpits are a hot spot, and i sometimes push my hard limit aside. i will need serious aftercare when the scene is done though. my armpits are at the level of ticklishness where it's unbareable and instead of laughing, it slowly comes to screaming and crying from the intensity.

 

[CrystalLight]

I'd have to say that my hard and solid limit would be my belly button. It makes me nauseous and I can barely handle talking about it, let alone having it probed.

Trial and error. I learned and now I know.

 

[BellaRisa]

Then what's the point of having a Hard Limit?

People evolve and change over time, hon. As we grow, or as our relationships with our play-partners deepen, occasionally we find that what was once off limits is now intriguing. I've had several *hard* limits, activities that triggered negative memories or were just plain distasteful to me, that are now soft limits; meaning that I've grown to where these days, *in the right mood and with the right person*, I'm willing or in some cases actually eager to engage in those types of play .

Case in point: a good friend of mine watched her home burn down as a child and was very uncomfortable around open flame. She had fire play (a fun, painless and beautiful BDSM activity I'll explain if you need me to) on her list of HARD HARD OMG HARD limits for her first yr or so in the Lifestyle. She didn't even want to be in the same room. But, after eventually watching several of her girlfriends giggle and go into major subspace while we had it performed on us (including me, flash cotton on my 7 months pregnant belly), curiosity got the best of her; she steeled herself and gave it a try one night. It's now one of her fave activities! Limits, like other rules in life, can be very fluid as people and circumstances change

 

[CrystalLight]

Please explain.. and what is flash cotton?

Jo-- World's largest Vanilla on the forum.

 

[BellaRisa]

my hard limit is obviously my armpits...normally it's a strict hard limit with people i allow to tickle me and don't know too well. but people like Jeff, Lee, Bella, Snail, etc. are people that i trust because they know how bad it is, and it's their choice to realize when it's making me upset...

If I may without being a pain , I would call your underarms a 'soft' limit, using the term in the manner I was taught, because you do allow trusted folks to play with them. A truly hard limit is something where at this point in time NO ONE can play with you that way, no way no how. There are indeed true hard limits, Crystal, some things you know that you're never going to do no matter how much you grow/change/learn; I have a few, like stapling (which is exactly what it sounds like for those wondering), that no one is ever ever ever going to do to me no matter who they are or how much I trust them; I ain't doin' it. My best friend loves it, I'll watch her, but from several feet away with this look on my face

 

[BellaRisa]

Please explain.. and what is flash cotton?

Jo-- World's largest Vanilla on the forum.

You know that fluff that magicians use to make a quick flash of fire in their hands? That stuff. I had a fire play expert make designs and trails with bits of it allllll over my big huge belly, then set it off like knocking down dominos that were on fire The whole effect takes about three seconds and it's *beautiful*, it's barely even warm and looks soooo cool

 

[CrystalLight]

That's fire play?

See.. here I am thinking you set people on fire or parts of people on fire..

I have a lot to learn..

 

[Tortuga]

alright alright alright....dang it...okay yeah my armpits are very bad, okay extremely bad. heres the truth.....this was discovered until after my previous relationship with the Rhino....okay...and on many ocasions i did cry instintly but of course he didn't know because my face was in the freakin mattress.....jerk...anyways...my ultimate truely deathly feared off limit spot is my butt.

spankings i can handle, i loooooooove being spanked, obviously.

but being tickled on my butt, i would rather chew off my fingers.

 

[CrystalLight]

but being tickled on my butt, i would rather chew off my fingers.

The crease area, where my ass meets my thigh is fucking torture, but it's not a hard limit. It's just something that would make me tweak.

 

[BellaRisa]

That's fire play?

See.. here I am thinking you set people on fire or parts of people on fire..

I have a lot to learn..

It's actually something like that, when you use a fire lighting mixture and swabs/batons on the body. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_play

It's a lot of fun but you definitely need to know what you're doing, like the rest of BDSM

 

[BellaRisa]

Fire play clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnsefXiPjtc

Awesome clip, trust me it it sooo relaxing and feels so nice and warm on your skin

 

[CrystalLight]

*looks up wide eyed from reading about "Edge Play" on Wikipedia*


....They have gun play!?

What's that like?

 

[Redmage]

Then what's the point of having a Hard Limit?

Suppose one of your hard limits is "no unprotected sex." You'd be pretty pissed with a partner who violated that limit, wouldn't you? But then sometime later you and that partner decide to have a child together. So the limit needs to be renegotiated.

A hard limit is absolute while it's there. But the person whose limit it is can always choose to suspend it, change it, or give it up.

 

[Redmage]

*looks up wide eyed from reading about "Edge Play" on Wikipedia*

....They have gun play!?

What's that like?

That's another thing that I won't do. It's a form of psychological play involving unloaded firearms. It's part of a broad category of play that uses dangerous things symbolically, usually either as expressions of trust or to evoke the sort of fear-rush that you get from a roller-coaster.

Gunplay might be used as part of a force fantasy scene, or as an element of a fear-play scene. As one example, the sub might be made to perform fellatio on the barrel.

No public play-space that I know of will allow this type of play on their premises, for obvious reasons. I won't do it myself because I was taught from the time I got my first gun (age 10) that you DO NOT POINT A FIREARM AT ANYTHING YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO KILL. Ever. Period. There's no such thing as an "unloaded" gun. So even if I check the weapon myself and know perfectly well that it's dangerous only as a club, I just won't do it. But, different people have different risk-tolerances.

 

[besttickler27]

The crease area, where my ass meets my thigh is fucking torture, but it's not a hard limit. It's just something that would make me tweak.

I've always wanted to tickle a girl in that spot! lol.

 

[Capnmad]

Differing thoughts...

In my mind, a hard limit is a hard limit, meaning that if someone really says absolutely, categorically "don't do this thing," then that should be it. I dislike hard limits personally, though. I prefer to have someone explain to me what the issue is and then put it in my hands to deal with however seems best to me, on a case by case basis.

See, I reckon I'd have the same intellectual curiosity if they had a hard limit I totally didn't understand, though mostly for the reason that if there's a tie to major psychological trauma, or nerve dysfunction or whathaveyou, insight into the matter would possibly give better guidance for how you want to conduct a session.

For instance, I have a friend with nerve damage in her legs that makes tickling around her knees totally not okay. Nerve damage is completely non-negotiable. I didn't know about the nerve damage at first, but after she told me, not only do I not tickle there, but I'm especially mindful of anything in the proximity that might stimulate that area and pose a problem for my 'lee during the session, and so, when possible, adjust position in relation to other objects accordingly.

If someone were to put in my hands the decision to cross a boundary or not... ...well, then it doesn't seem like a true "hard limit" to begin with really, but rather a temporary trust issue with whoever you're having top you that you'd appreciate having discussed before going forward, so you can be comfortable. And it's okay to have those sorts of reservations, too.

Before a session, I always at least cover a basic spectrum of boundaries with a playmate to make sure they're cool with most anything that may come up. If there's a grey area, I inquire.

If I perceive a matter as a true "hard limit", discussion about it would be for informational purposes for the benefit of both parties, and not to talk them out of it nor convince them to hand that decision to me if they weren't initially so inclined.

Maybe hard limits are something you can negotiate when you're a person of a certain experience level, or rank or something and it doesn't really matter, but hard limits as I understand them tend only to be moved willingly with folks with whom you afford an extraordinary level of trust acquired over time... If you have a hard limit, and I don't know well before our session what the limit is and why you have it; if I haven't discussed the matter at length with you, and if we haven't played before, I see no reason you should be handing the choice to cross that line over to me.

Now, circumstances and dispositions differ, and "different strokes for different folks" and all, but that's the way I see it. And understand, if you allow me to cross some weak "boundary" during a first session or somesuch (and this can often happen with a number of soft boundaries when you gain a sense of increased trust and bonding with an intuitive and caring top before or even during the course of a session), you can call it whatever you like, but I'm not calling it a "hard limit" by any stretch of the imagination.

Hard limits are to respected, period. Anyone willingly violating the Lee's trust is in for some rough times, physically and socially. They're called Hard Limits for a reason.

This better reflects my beliefs, practices, and sense of appropriate repercussion.

 

[CrystalLight]

Suppose one of your hard limits is "no unprotected sex." You'd be pretty pissed with a partner who violated that limit, wouldn't you? But then sometime later you and that partner decide to have a child together. So the limit needs to be renegotiated.

Ah. Makes sense. Danke.

 

[Adam]

Thought I'd share this with you, as it gives terrific insight into hard limits. It's from Mistress Fawn, a professional domina who resides in my home state. I posed the question on another website and she was nice enough to answer in a nicely detailed manner...

Good comment and very thought provoking indeed! I would say two things; limits and hard limits are to be reviewed by the dominant at the time you meet and discuss the mutual areas of interest.

What this means is very simple, when the dominant is talking with you about "areas of interest" this incorporates all the areas that are fair game for the dominate to act upon facilitating a true power exchange.
Generally a dominant will be very good at the interview process and picking out if the two of you are mutually compatible. Certainly though if a golden cocktail is something that is not tolerable, then generally if she's into that herself, compatibility might be an issue and if she's true to her desires and a fem dom/dominate at heart she might tell you she's simply not going to be motivated to see you for a session. This is especially true if all your limits are her areas of interest!

Since there is no particular right or wrong, there is no set way to answer this question since every domina decides for herself and makes the choice to see a sub for a session.
I always tell someone to think very deeply about his/ her hard limits because generally a domina will do things that aren't in that hard limit category.

Don't worry, as long as you touch upon what really is not acceptable to you, generally the domina won't do it because she knows that for a true power exchange and head space to occur it takes two as well as mutual interest as well.

I hope that helps!