• If you would like to get your account Verified, read this thread
  • The TMF is sponsored by Clips4sale - By supporting them, you're supporting us.
  • >>> If you cannot get into your account email me at [email protected] <<<
    Don't forget to include your username

A load of Bull?.............

red indian

2nd Level Yellow Feather
Joined
Apr 3, 2001
Messages
3,441
Points
0
......this piece caught my eye in this weeks edition of "Private Eye" the famous satirical magazine.


EXCLUSIVE TO THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT.


AN APOLOGY.


In recent years, we may have given the mistaken impression tha BSE in cattle was a disease slightly more dangerous to human health than the Plague, SARS and the Black Death combined. A disease so serious that when it was detected in British cows we had no option but to place an immeadiate ban on all meat exports from Britain.

Wenow realise, in the light of an American cow contracting BSE, that nothing could be further from the truth, and that BSE is, in fact, no more serious than a tickly cough or a bunged up nose and poses no threat whatsoever to humans. In fact, BSE is a disease so harmless that any suggestions that American beef exports should be banned as a result of it are plainly ridiculous.

We apoligise for any confusion caused, and any confusion in the future when a cow on a farm in Hertfordshire starts wobbling and we immeadiatley place a total ban on all imports of British beef to protect the health of...etc...etc...etc
 
Hey, don't you get it? You're wrong, and the President's friends are right! They're right about everything, or haven't you listened to Donald Rumsfeld?
How dare anyone impugn the beef industry? And, don't forget how impugned the President's friends in the tobacco industry were. What a miscarriage! Here, have a cigarette.
 
And let's not forget that recent reports from an American scientist show that Scottish salmon is bad and Washington salmon is totally safe.
 
What I'd like to know is this... This thing just showed up with the situation in GB a few years back. Or so they claimed. So, now these studies are telling us that, IF we happened to eat infected meat, it would stay dormant in humans until 10-15 years later. At that point, symptoms similar to MS would begin to arise. (Just one of the study's claims.) If the GB outbreak was the first, I want to know how they come up with information like that...both the timeline AND how it would manifest. Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

Ann :sowrong:
 
Myths and other such nonsense about BSE/Mad Cow Disease...

Sadly, the whole thing has been soooooo over reported, understated, misunderstood. I don't think you can separate the bull from the meat of the story. I do know that when Ms. Winfrey televised her show in the 90's, I was outraged (and still am) at her irresponsible journalism. I was happy when the beef producers sued her...just unhappy when they lost.

For those of you who truly want a little background on the disease, read on...if not, well, live on in ignorant bliss and believe every word from Oprah is gospel...

BSE is in a class of diseases called spongiform encephalopathies. These aren't new. Several domestic animals have forms of it - scrapie in sheep and goats for example. The problem emerged in cattle in the 1980's when rendering plants began changing some of their practices. And the world started on its health kick demanding less fat in their hamburger. The series of events evolved simultaneously so to speak. Carving up carcasses is not pretty work. Due to injuries and the time consuming process of trying to remove the offal (anything deemed unfit for human consumption, rendering plants streamlined some of the processing. Along this time, nutritionists were trying to figure out how to make cows lean. Due to a cow's unique digestive system, the bacteria in their stomachs only allow for a certain percentage of protein to be metabolized. So scientists discovered ways to by-pass the bacteria by heat treating certain things - soy hulls for example. But soy can be expensive when you're feeding a large number of cattle. Thus, they hit upon the idea of heating bone meal and blood meal left over from the rendering process - waste not, want not, right? And for those of you who find the idea disgusting, go to your local garden store and you'll find things on the shelf...to deter pests from getting to your plants and such. All natural...

Well, the public hears "cows eating cows" and cries outrage. What???? Cows are herbivores...so how can this be?? Well, the average joe and jane do tend to overeact when they get images of cannibalism implanted in their brains. The problem started in the UK at about the same time this rendering process was changed...so now, instead of eliminating areas that contained large amounts of nervous tissue, these fell into the scrap bag for animal consumption. Now, one other important factor exists in the UK and other countries that have seen major outbreaks. A large small ruminant population and indemic areas of scrapie. Yes, that's right...that one disease that happens to closely resemble BSE. The particles that cause the disease BSE (scrapie is actually caused by a virus - an organism smaller than bacteria) is called a prion - just part of a virus. The suggested means of how this new disease emerged is that the scrapie virus mutated into this form - which is infective to cows and humans alike.

To complicate things further, the UK was a little slow to reveal all the possible implications of the "tainted feed" to countries who had imported beef from them. When it was eventually disclosed, the U.S. banned not only all beef exports from the UK (and any countries with confirmed cases of BSE) but any bovine products such as semen and embryos. And all countries were encouraged to ban the use of ruminant by-products in cattle feed. For a list of countries who have reported cases of BSE, see here

As a by-product of all this fear, the Red Cross has now placed a ban on blood and blood products from any individuals living in Europe during the decade or so when the bovine outbreak first emerged. Even though there has been no evidence that the disease can be transmitted this way between people. In the UK, to date, there have been less than 100 human deaths attributed to Creutzfeld-Jacob's disease (which is a new twist on an old disease hence you will see it called "new variant"). Cases of CJD have been seen in the U.S. - usually attributed to person's eating infected elk or deer meat - two other species with their own naturally occuring form of this disease.

For more information about the human disease, go here - at least if you trust the FDA.

When the initial shock dies down, I hope things return to a more normal level of paranoia in this country. But I really don't know where things are headed. I do suspect these are going to be lean times for beef producers.

If I find out more information, I'll be happy to pass it along to those interested.
 
Ann, and everyone else:

England's outbreak of BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephelitis, or Mad Cow Disease) may be the first widely publicised case of BSE to hit the news stands, but it is not the first. This disease has existed for many years, and is a serious threat to the WHO and the world's economy. For over 25 years, many nations' customs offices have screened bovine products for BSE, and in many different products! Not just edible beef is at stake (pun intended) with regards to BSE. I personally work in a facility from which surgical sutures are exported all over the world. Some of these sutures are made from a product called catgut, which is a product that does not now, nor did it ever involve cats. Catgut is made from cow intestine. For as far back as I can remember, we have been documenting that all of our gut sutures are free of BSE. Most nations require that all invoice paperwork lists each gut suture and it's country of origin, specifically for the purposes of identifying sutures originating from nations with BSE outbreaks. While these outbreaks are generally few and far between, the ramifications of using BSE infected surgical equipment on multiple patients would be catastrophic. These precautions are a nation's way of covering their asses, and I don't blame them.
When English cattle were revealed to be infected with BSE, it was news. Therefore, the media picked up on the news and made it a little more interesting. The fourth estate is rather good at sensationalizing certain aspects of potentially damaging news stories. Take the West Nile Virus, for example. In 1998, the Bronx Zoo was in the process of building a new santuary for it's main attraction: the gorillas. For the past billion or so years, the gorillas at the Bronx Zoo had been living in a small, dark house with large, plate-glass windows so that the people could walk through and look at the horrid creatures. The rooms were dark, so as to make the animals look more menacing. Granted, the gorillas also had a very expansive outdoor enclosure in which they could roam around and do their gorilla things, but the tourists and Fordham Students never got to see that, unless they were stupid enough to leap over the fences (which several people did....once)
So, in 1998, the zoo decided to build a nice habitat for the great apes. They built an enormous enclosure, and habitated it with various flora from the gorilla's natural habitat of Africa. These plants were actually shipped from Africa, some containing undetected mosquito eggs. These mosquitoes hatched, and lo and behold, we had ourselves a new American citizen: The West-Nile Virus. Thousands of birds went insane and flew into windows, cars, people, whatever. Several hundred people over 6 years have been infected, and, at press time, over 100 people have died.
The New York Post (A rag, if ever there was one) reported that the next AIDS was upon us, and told us to do everything short of repenting for the end was near. We were bombarded with pesticides daily in order to eradicate the infected insects (right) and were subjected to entire newscasts on WABC focusing solely on "The Mystery Illness killing our birds, and potentially infecting millions" (actual quote)
In reality, West Nile Virus is a serious threat to our nation's health. Much like the Asian Influenza outbreaks that assail our nation on an annual basis, West Nile simply needed time to mutate and acclimate to our weak American immune systems. A Virus doesn't "want" to kill it's host, but it needs a warm body in which to reproduce. West Nile quickly "learned" how to infect us without killing us (in fact it originally only killed those with extremely weak immune systems anyway) and is now only a bit more dangerous that a bad flu.
Mad Cow is a similar story. While BSE is (correct me if I'm wrong) a bacterial infection, and will not acclimate to our bodies, it is a condition that is magnified greatly by the nation's press. So, when England has BSE, we say oh, our poor neighbors across "the pond", let's point and laugh, and then list the billions of ways that BSE could give you an agonizingly painful death.
When Washington State got BSE, however, it was a totally different story. Here we had our VERY capitalist market (Capitalism not to be confused with Democracy... this message is long enough already.. PM me if you need a Social Studies lesson) which was in jeopardy, so our government exercised it's recently rarely used gag order to shut the media up about these issues. BSE is now considered by the American media to be little more of a nuisance than a spider bite (exaggeration)
So what is the truth? What ARE the real dangers of BSE? Between two extremes of fiction you will find the facts. It is not as dangerous as British BSE, but it is more dangerous than American BSE. You may make your own conclusions, because the fourth estate won't tell you the truth.
 
Interesting point Phatteus. Let me clarify a few things. BSE is not a bacterial disease. It is a viral like disease (medical jargon...acts like a virus but it ain't one). If it were bacterial in origin, we could destroy it during the cooking process. Cooking does not destroy the organism.

You mentioned dangers and that's the one real thing I'd like to focus on. How at risk are we? Well, perhaps Red or BigJim can tell us the number of cattle who have been diagnosed with/died due to BSE over in the UK. Like I stated above, a little over 100 people have been diagnosed with it across Europe. True, it does take years for the disease to be detected. But the analysis of the crisis in the UK have shown that the number of bovine cases being diagnosed is on the downside of the bell curve - with human cases lagging roughly four or five years behind in diagnosis. The British government has concluded that the number of human cases should have peaked already. Now, out of all the beef consuming people across Europe and the UK, 100 cases diagnosed so far...so let's say that number doubles. Now compare this to the U.S. One diagnosed cow...period. We don't have a large number of small ruminants (i.e. goats and sheep) as part of our food supply. Nor do we have an endemic scrapie problem (scrapie is now a reportable disease in most states FYI). These were all part of the original criteria analysts found that were necessary for BSE to take such a dramatic foothold in the UK.

We do have other forms of TSE (transmissible spongiform encephalopathy) in mink, cats, deer, and elk. To break down what BSE and these other diseases are: contagious brain diseases that make the white matter of the brain become like swiss cheese. It's not a pretty disease to see in any species. But let's not blow one case out of proportion yet. We have some good measures in place to protect this from getting out of hand and becoming a serious threat to the food supply. Let's not pull another Oprah, please.

And that, Phatteus, is one of the reasons why I think the press is being kept a little tight. Ms. Winfrey's last ill-informed commentary on the British BSE crisis hurt the beef producers in this country...hurt them badly. I don't know that beef prices have ever actually recovered (please don't quote me, I'm not a market analyst nor have I even looked at recent livestock prices). So...try to be informed but wait for the final word before going vegan. Just my two cents...

And I would have not have liked to be one of the vets who had to destroy the 400+ calves out there. I understand and appreciate the precautions being taken though. Few members of the public stop to think how very emotionally draining it is to do nothing but kill when you've been trained to save lives. I call it a bad day when I have four euthanasias...I can't even imagine the sh*tty day I'd have if I were out there culling that many young animals.
 
I treat any public health scare with a pound of salt, rather than a pinch. They always seem to end up making billions of dollars for big pharmeceutical companies who have big politicians, their friends or their relatives amongst their stockholders. The CDC in particular have a proven track record of hysteria inducement, every instance of which has resulted in countless taxpayer dollars being ploughed into vaccines and medical research. Remember when half a dozen soldiers in North Carolina got the flu a few years back? The CDC spent billions on flu vaccines and nearly sent the population crazy with predictions of half a million American lives being lost within the year due to an imminent flu epidemic. And how many lives were lost due to flu? A fraction of the ones that were ended or curtailed by neurological problems like paralysis because of the administration of erroneously trusted vaccines.

There is yet still no proven link between eating infected BSE meat and development of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. (The alleged human equivalent of BSE, better known as CJD.) Like the link between HIV and AIDS it is tenous at best, non-existent at worst.
 
geez let's not forget..

that the infected cow came from canada, and only stayed on the cattle ranch long enough to infect a couple other cows.

in america, it is illegal to feed the cattle in the manor that results in "mad cow disease". that was proven when england had it's big scare a couple years ago.

steve
 
Thank you Desdemona for your Veterinary expertise and your very professional and informative remarks.
You mentioned Oprah: I had completely forgotten about the crap that she pulled. She should hang her head in shame for using her celebrity as a platform for one-sided politics (a certain pet peeve of mine that is my basis for disliking Miss Streisand... but this isn't a witch hunt).
The numbers in England are interesting... a possible peak at 200-250 human cases for 400 head of cattle. At the risk of sounding heartless, which sound would be unintentional, let me assure you, that number is really not that high considering what it could be had precautions not been taken. That does not, however mean that the singular cow from Alberta does not pose a serious threat to the West. ArenaActor, you mentioned that the feeding of bone meal and processed cattle organs to livestock is illegal in this country. As terrible as it sounds, there are many things that are illegal in this country, but that does not mean that these practices are not being.... practiced. Things we don't know can often hurt us.
Oh, and by the way:


There is yet still no proven link between eating infected BSE meat and development of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. (The alleged human equivalent of BSE, better known as CJD.) Like the link between HIV and AIDS it is tenous at best, non-existent at worst.

Really? I hadn't heard either of those facts.
 
For Ann - whom I'm sorry I haven't addressed more directly, but I'm afraid my familiarity with the human side of CJD is not equivalent to my understanding (though limited) of the bovine side of the coin. You asked about the ramifications of the bovine outbreak in the UK. For some interesting numbers in BOTH human and bovine cases, wade through the CDC's 2000 report on things. Granted, we've now got a diagnosed case here in the U.S. - but I never doubted that we would see a case or two crop up. The CDC link is here

And BigJim, the epidemiology may not be there to prove inconclusively direct cause and effect between BSE and nvCJD, but the way this strain acts differently - the age of onset being much younger than the CJD normal onset and the time factor - take that with the evidence of kuru and experimental infection across species and I don't doubt the plausability one bit. But I'm not going to forego steak.

Arenactor, sadly it's true...many times "illegal" is a relative term to some. Last I read, there were at least NINE slaughtering plants who were "non-compliant." And one of the vets I work with was telling me he read that bovine blood is still being fed to weanling calves. I can't comprehend this...but, I'm sure more will come to light as this situation progresses. And BSE is not a contagious disease like Foot and Mouth. So the time factor of exposure is not an issue - just the feeding/slaughtering process.

And thank you, Phatteus - I didn't know you worked in the medical equipment field. And while I've used my fair share of Gut - usually chromic 🙂 I was always under the impression that it was sheep intestines...but I guess we lack the sheep! And while it seems silly to even imply that there would be any large amount of nervous tissue present in surgical catgut, I understand the medical community's CYA tendency.
 
Hey Y'all 🙂

This post is of no signifigance to the topic. I just wanted to pop in and thank Des for being so well written when it comes to her field of expertise. It's a pleasure to read something informative when stated 'just so.'

I enjoy your posts!
Jo
 
phatteus said:
Really? I hadn't heard either of those facts.

You can start here if you havn't already read it. There majority of this post is about AIDS, although there's a lot of other stuff thrown in at the end. The bit about AIDS is the most significant though.
 
Des, PM Me if you want to further discuss Chromic or other gut sutures, I wouldn't want to bore everyone else with the "gory" details!

Jim, thanks for the link, unfortunately, I will have to read it tomorrow, as I just got home from a terrible family crisis, and can't read very well right now!! But Thank you for the supplemental reading.

I'd also like to second JoBelle's comment and add to it everyone's serious treatment of such a serious topic. Usually these types of discussions become shouting matches (I consider myself as guilty of shouting as anyone else) whether it be on the street or in the TMF. This being a ticklish subject (Pun Intended), we have all been very professional and considerate of each other's opinions and factual information. Kudos to everyone.
 
What's New
11/3/25
The Final Vote for the 2024 GFA's is now open! Visit the GFA forum and cast your final choices.

Door 44
Live Camgirls!
Live Camgirls
Streaming Videos
Pic of the Week
Pic of the Week
Congratulations to
*** brad1701 ***
The winner of our weekly Trivia, held every Sunday night at 11PM EST in our Chat Room
Top