A problem not limited to the Catholic Church

[omega]

A probloem not limited to the Catholic Church

I kind of understood from Q that there were no threads about the Catholic Church going through the sex in the priesthood scandals. I just wanted to say that even though all the attention has been on the Catholic Church and the priests, this is not a Catholic only problem. Every type of denomination has these problems. It is even a problem among the Amish who don't even have pastors or priests.

One thing that becomes clear is that even if the Catholic church allows priests to marry there will still be priests who try to have sex with children and teens. The problem is not unmarried priests with pent up sexual tension. The problem is that humans are sinful and priests/pastors/ministers are humans.

 

[amk714]

First, let me just say that I have nothing against religion, even though I'm an atheist. Sex abuse is sex abuse, whoever's doing it. Personally, I support a zero tolerance policy. Yes, some view that as being unfair to priests and the like, because that takes away their second chance. But from what I've heard, many molesters are repeat offenders. So if a priest/pastor/minister is caught sexually abusing a child, he/she should no longer be one. I know how harsh it sounds, but there's no excuse for someone abusing a position which the religious public has put its faith and trust in. Thanks for starting this thread, omega, and that concludes my 2 cents.

 

[asutickler]

Personally, I support a zero tolerance policy. Yes, some view that as being unfair to priests and the like, because that takes away their second chance.

Aw, gee, and we wouldn't want to be unfair to <i>child molesters,</i> now would we?


I agree whole-heartedly with what you said, amk. Until laws are passed which would make the whole "second chance" thing a non-issue (such as locking up pedophiles for life... or better yet, executing them) no one who has ever been convicted of any sexual offense should ever be allowed to be a member of the clergy of ANY denomination. Period.


Yuck.


ASUTickler

 

[TicklingDuo]

I just have to throw in my two cents.

As someone who was abused by a priest...AND someone who has worked side-by-side with priests most of my life...I too support a zero tollerance policy. And ya know what? So do nearly all of the priests I know (which is a LOT of priests).

I know a priest who works closely with priests who abuse. He's a good man who tries to get these guys away from kids. He supports zero tollerance. He also supports and promotes the screening of seminary applicants to weed out as many of the potential abusers as possible.

As was pointed out, the problem is not one exclusive to the Catholic Church...or to religion. It is a problem in several members OF the church (catholic or any other). I think we get more upset hearing about it in our churches because we see them calling for conversion of heart. It can be difficult to accept that call when some within the ranks of those doing the calling are corrupt...in ANY way. I think there's more of a sense of betrayal.

The problem is a universal one. The vast majority of child abusers are members of the victim's own family. That's just looking at the sexual abuse. The desparity in those numbers increases when you count physical abuse. We just had a case here in CT where a 10yo girl got pregnant from her 74yo uncle. He bought her silence by getting her an outfit she wanted.

Until we suport and enforce a zero tollerance policy across the board...with mandatory counselling AND jail time...the problem will remain unstemmed. We've made some good moves in mandatory reporting laws. But, what good is reporting when the judicial system drops the ball?

Case in point...

I once worked as a kind of nanny for a divorced mother. She had two sons, the younger one 3yo at the time. He'd always act strange after returning from being with his father. One day, he returned bouncing off the walls and talking about using daddy's straw. (His father was a coke head.) We took him in for testing and found coke in his system. After consulting the police, a detective was sent to the house and we heard further reports of this little boy having been made to "poke" his father's girlfriend. Further investigation proved the sexual abuse as well as the drugging up of the child.

The father was a rich lawyer who was good friends with the mayors (also coke head) husband. They managed to sweep away all the hospital evidence and discount the childs own testimony about the abuse. Bottom line? He walked AND kept visitation rights. A few months later, there was another incident. This time, the mother took him across state lines to keep him safe until she could persue action. Because of that move, she was arrested and the child taken from her and given to the father who was abusing him. (She didn't get him back until the bastard died 5 years later.)

Let's catch these people. But, let's also DO something with them when we do...not just turn around after a scolding and slap on the wrist and put them right back where we found them.

Ann (stepping off of soapbox)

 

[amk714]

Aw, gee, and we wouldn't want to be unfair to <i>child molesters,</i> now would we?


I agree whole-heartedly with what you said, amk. Until laws are passed which would make the whole "second chance" thing a non-issue (such as locking up pedophiles for life... or better yet, executing them) no one who has ever been convicted of any sexual offense should ever be allowed to be a member of the clergy of ANY denomination. Period.


Yuck.


ASUTickler

Well, locking them up for life or execution is too harsh, IMHO. But I do think they should be severely punished. Molestation is extremely traumatic for those who go through it, like Ann. Sorry to hear about that, Ann, but thanks for the input. And it's not just yuck, ASU, it's f***** up!

 

[qjakal]

A special spot...

in every faiths hell has been reserved for those who betray the trust of their flock. There are certain professions that are held to a higher standard. Teachers, clergy and police spring immediately to mind. Entrants to these fields should be scrutinized beyond almost any reasonable expectation. They need to understand that they will be placed in a position of trust by society, and that with the priveleges and prestige comes a responsibility that cannot be "set aside" for immoral gratification of their human urges. It IS a difficult thing for some...and they should be expunged brutally and efficiently. The potential for damage that professions such as these exert is enough to warrant measures of supervision that may well intrude into their personal lives. We grow lax at times, and the children pay the price for our carelessness. The consequences of deeds such as these needs to be abhorent enough to dismay and discourage future holders of these integral roles.
Can we watch each member of all such professions? No...not even with our most sophisticated technology. BUT, we can create a climate among their own internal societies that would expose these renegades before extensive damage could occur. I firmly believe that the members of all professions are well aware of the "good" and "bad" among them, because it is nearly impossible to disguise what and who you are on a daily ongoing basis with people who work so closely with each other in tense situations.
Yes, I DO blame the hierarchy and peer groups of the deviants in these cases....and any among you who are involved in such a profession need to examine your role in these travesties, and modify your actions accordingly. Turning a blind eye is NOT acceptable when the consequences are this extreme.
My 2 cents, and I have a few more pennies yet to contribute... Q

 

[omega]

Re: A special spot...

There are certain professions that are held to a higher standard. Teachers, clergy and police spring immediately to mind. Entrants to these fields should be scrutinized beyond almost any reasonable expectation. They need to understand that they will be placed in a position of trust by society, and that with the priveleges and prestige comes a responsibility that cannot be "set aside" for immoral gratification of their human urges.
Yes, I DO blame the hierarchy and peer groups of the deviants in these cases....and any among you who are involved in such a profession need to examine your role in these travesties, and modify your actions accordingly. Turning a blind eye is NOT acceptable when the consequences are this extreme.
Q

Hey, what are you doing stepping on my toes? Telling me to examine my role in all of this.

Seriously though, what am I to do about this? I know that in my state clergy seem to be exempt from reporting requirements because of the "confidentiality of the confessional" as the Catholics put it. However our denominational leadership has told us that in these cases we need to report what we know about abuse. What burns me is that it seems to be more a concern to cover our butts in case of any litigation than the fact that reporting is the correct and moral thing to do. If confronted with the knowledge of abuse I would immediately report it to law enforcement and child protective services, or whatever agency is most appropriate for the situation. What can I do beyond that?

You know there is also a problem of elder abuse in some care homes and nursing homes. I wonder how many pastors/priests are guilty of elder abuse? Any kind of abuse makes me shudder and shake with anger.

 

[amk714]

Re: Re: A special spot...

Seriously though, what am I to do about this? I know that in my state clergy seem to be exempt from reporting requirements because of the "confidentiality of the confessional" as the Catholics put it. However our denominational leadership has told us that in these cases we need to report what we know about abuse. What burns me is that it seems to be more a concern to cover our butts in case of any litigation than the fact that reporting is the correct and moral thing to do. If confronted with the knowledge of abuse I would immediately report it to law enforcement and child protective services, or whatever agency is most appropriate for the situation. What can I do beyond that?

You know there is also a problem of elder abuse in some care homes and nursing homes. I wonder how many pastors/priests are guilty of elder abuse? Any kind of abuse makes me shudder and shake with anger.

To heck with the confessional and anything else that's "confidential." All abuse should be exposed and reported so that something can be done about it. I agree 100% with you, omega. That some clergy are more concerned with litigation than the effect abuse has on their followers is an outrage. Good point also about elder abuse. The people living in those care and nursing homes have enough problems already without having to worry about being abused.

 

[ticklishbbw]

Question on all of this....

Anytime I see another news story on priests molesting kids, the same question comes to mind. Why did so many of the families involved, never contact the police at the time they first suspected something? So many of the stories I've seen, the only people they filed complaints with were other priests or members of the church. I find this odd. It's the equivilent of a parent suspecting a teacher of molesting their child, but only complaining to the principal. Why is that? Does the Catholic church convince it's members that they should never seek outside help? I don't get it. I'm just really curious about this, because if it was my child, first stop would be the police station.

 

[amk714]

Re: Question on all of this....

Anytime I see another news story on priests molesting kids, the same question comes to mind. Why did so many of the families involved, never contact the police at the time they first suspected something? So many of the stories I've seen, the only people they filed complaints with were other priests or members of the church. I find this odd. It's the equivilent of a parent suspecting a teacher of molesting their child, but only complaining to the principal. Why is that? Does the Catholic church convince it's members that they should never seek outside help? I don't get it. I'm just really curious about this, because if it was my child, first stop would be the police station.

I'm not Catholic--in fact, I'm not at all religious--but I guess the reason they don't go to the police is that they don't want to invite public scrutiny. I'm sure that most priests would never abuse anyone. Even so, I agree that any abuse should be reported to the proper authorities, because that's criminal activity. I certainly hope that the church isn't telling its members to keep abuse within it a private matter, because to me, that would mean that the hierarchy doesn't want to admit that abuse is a problem, or even worse, that they don't think it's serious enough to warrant attention.