Al Franken: Who's the "big fat idiot" NOW?

[asutickler]

Just in case anyone missed it, Al Franken (author of Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot, hence this thread's title) recently bodyslammed a heckler at a Howard Dean rally. Franken claimed he was merely protecting Howard Dean's right to "free speech." No, I am NOT making this up... read all about it here:

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/16692.htm

 

[qjakal]

Yeah...bravery

"Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him onto the floor."

The 'ol attack from behind manuever...typical of cowards the world over. Q

 

[Shem the Penman]

And the moral of today's story is...the New York Post is barely suitable for wrapping fish, let alone reporting news. Try reading the report of the incident in the Manchester Union Leader and you'll see that the protester got violent first:

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=32449

The heckler began yelling from the rear of the theater while the Democratic Presidential hopeful was taking questions from the audience, theater manager Peter Ramsey said.

Two members of Dean’s security team immediately moved in on the man, who shoved and elbowed them, Ramsey said.

“He was screaming. He was out of control,” Ramsey said.

Ramsey said he went over to help calm the situation and also got elbowed and pushed.

Also:

Ramsey said a news photographer later told him Franken reacted to being elbowed by the protester, who knocked his glasses off.

And further:

When a second heckler — apparently working in tandem with the first — emerged from the audience, Dean security men and Franken went over to deal with him while the first protester headed to the balcony, Ramsey said.

While Ramsey pursued the first man to the balcony, he said, he saw Franken and three other men escort the second heckler out the stage door.

Once in the balcony, Ramsey encountered a more disturbing sight.

The protester had clambered over two or three people and had perched himself on the balcony railing.

“I thought he was going to jump. He was screaming at Dean. I was scared for a minute that he was going to jump on the stage and attack Dean,” Ramsey said.

One New Hampshire voter sitting in the balcony said the heckler “kind of barreled through like a Patriots fullback.”

“The way he moved, I thought he was going to jump or something,” Wendy Branch of Northwood said. “Even if he didn’t intend to jump, he was setting himself up for a fall. It was a little alarming.”

Puts rather a different light on events, don't it?

 

[qjakal]

Not really...

I'd still say leave security matters to those who are trained/licensed/bonded/insured rather than vigilantes...but that's just me...lol. These things have a way of backfiring despite the best intentions of celebrities who see themselves as members of the Justice League.

Q

 

[Shem the Penman]

Whether or not Franken should have interfered is an entirely different matter. My point is that the Post's account makes it sound as if Franken jumped out of the crowd and attacked the man for doing nothing but heckle -- but they omitted a lot of pertinent details in an apparent attempt to make Franken look like the bad guy in this. If you honestly don't see any difference, remind me never to go to a political rally with you.

 

[qjakal]

No problem..

But the point that he's attacking people for WHATEVER reason is not so lightly dismissed. If you were to try it you'd likely still be cooling your heels in the local pokey...you need the celebrity cloak to protect you from the legal system. Hecklers are part of the process at EVERY convention, so why accept this violence so easily and absolve it because it's someone you may agree with politically?

Franken IS the bad guy in whichever version you pick..

Q

 

[Shem the Penman]

Then I must still be reading a different article from the one you are, because I think the bad guys here are the ones who attempted to violently disrupt the rally -- not just by heckling, but by attacking the people who tried to calm them down.

Franken's response may have been over the top, but if someone who was already being loud, violent, and disruptive threw an elbow at me and knocked off my glasses (not that I wear glasses, but for the sake of the point), I can't say I'd respond calmly either.

Or are you accepting and absolving the hecklers' violence because you agree with them?

 

[ShiningIce]

What IS pathetic is the right's attempt to make Franken look like an asshole. If this was a conservative who "bodyslammed" a heckler you'd all be applauding him. Another example of the right's double standard. 🙄

 

[qjakal]

Wow..

Interesting reactions, but you're not drawing the line between physically manhandling someone and shouting at a public figure in an assembly. Personally I don't care if it's Franken or Limbaugh, both are extremists and abhorrent to me because of their views. Ice as usual sees his one sided world view and attempts to project an opinion upon anyone else who disagrees with him, but that's par for the course and expected.

You're assuming the thrown elbow wasn't in response to being grabbed from behind as well, which isn't apparent in either version of events. As always, there's 3 sides to every story... #1, #2 and any version that lies between the 2 outer points of view.

Bottom line, if you weren't there you don't really know what happened, and in many cases even when present all you get is a "photograph" of the action, not the context.

Let the guys who are paid to handle this aspect of public assembly do their job....jumping people isn't part of being an activist of any stripe.

Q

 

[Shem the Penman]

You're still not reading the Union Leader article. The heckler is described as "shoving and elbowing" the security and the theater manager before Franken got involved. To me, at least, that certainly crosses "the line between physically manhandling someone and shouting at a public figure in an assembly."

Should Franken have stayed out of it? Probably. But as I said above, I can understand his reaction, even if I don't fully condone it. And I don't see that this invalidates my original point: the sleaziness of the Post's article in neglecting to mention that the heckler was the first to start getting physical.

 

[Krokus]

What else can be said? Everyone alreasy knows the guy is a smartass idiot. Let him make a fool of himself. Doesn't suprise me one bit.

 

[drew70]

What IS pathetic is the right's attempt to make Franken look like an asshole. If this was a conservative who "bodyslammed" a heckler you'd all be applauding him. Another example of the right's double standard. 🙄

Come on, Icehole. You know as well as I that neither of the objections to Franken's behavior had dick to do with political stance. Speaking of which, didn't you say you'd recently swung to the conservative side? Didn't you reiterate such about 20 times in the same thread? Isn't it a little late to be backpedaling to your original posture next to which Ralph Nader would appear conservative?

 

[Moses25]

Come on, Icehole. You know as well as I that neither of the objections to Franken's behavior had dick to do with political stance. Speaking of which, didn't you say you'd recently swung to the conservative side? Didn't you reiterate such about 20 times in the same thread? Isn't it a little late to be backpedaling to your original posture next to which Ralph Nader would appear conservative?

With all due respect, Drew, I do believe Ice was being a tad facetious in his "A Change of Heart for Ice" thread, ya know? Thought that was obvious, Mista Drew...🙂

As for Al Franken...go Al!! I sez.

I know the mighty Q has made a good point in his assertion that security matters are best left to security personnel themselves, but I gotta give Al credit for standing his ground - sumpin' I'm pretty sure most of the blokes on this board would've done.

Cheers.😀

 

[Jimblast]

FRIGGIN FRANKEN..

What a moron! LOL! Franken has gone off the deep end! I was at a Republican luncheon in Washington DC where Franken started screaming at one table (how that loser...I mean how could that guy call himself a celebrety?) and had to be escorted out. There are many other instances where he has gone ballistic. Just another example of how the liberals can't stand being in the minority and are SO ANGRY! If he doesn't like this country, let's send him to Iran...I'm sure they'll be his friends. He wasn't funny on SNL and he isn't funny now. I hope the person he threw down gets a good LIBERAL attorney to sue the hell out of him! Now THAT would be funny. What a loser! LOL! 😀

 

[drew70]

With all due respect, Drew, I do believe Ice was being a tad facetious in his "A Change of Heart for Ice" thread, ya know? Thought that was obvious, Mista Drew...🙂

No doubt he considers it mere faceti, Moses. And if it was done once or twice, I could accept that. But 20 reiterations?? That's not faceti, that's fallacy. 😉

 

[kis123]

Oh dear Drew....

Ice's thread on "A Change of Heart for Ice", was merely satire and sarcastic, only meant as a wierd joke. No way did he really change his liberal ways.

I had a lot of fun on that thread, and everyone else who posted, conservatives, liberals, and independents alike gave their viewpoints and had some fun as well.

You can't take a whole lot said in these posts too seriously. Besides, people are entitled to their opinions whether we like it or not.

Did you have to use the word "Icehole"? Was that really necessary? Name-calling isn't necessary. Just prove your point, state your case, and move on.

In the meantime, I'll be waiting for the other shoe to drop.....

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Actually, Al Franken seems to have made a nice living for himself. And what do you do, Mr. JimBlast, if I may ask? Does anyone know who you are? Does anyone care?

 

[ShiningIce]

Come on, Icehole. You know as well as I that neither of the objections to Franken's behavior had dick to do with political stance. Speaking of which, didn't you say you'd recently swung to the conservative side? Didn't you reiterate such about 20 times in the same thread? Isn't it a little late to be backpedaling to your original posture next to which Ralph Nader would appear conservative?

Icehole huh? Cute Drew really that took alot of whit to come up with. I can see I'm dealing someone of the highest caliber. You're not worth my time. Q, who are YOU calling onesided?? I've never heard anything close to moderate come from you. Al Franken lets his temper get the better of him one time. So that must mean everything he's ever said is WRONG yeah right why dont we just crucify him. 🙄

 

[MrMacphisto]

You know... If you're going to insult someone, it's best to be snide and sarcastic. I realize I was overboard when I snapped at JoBelle in a certain other thread, but I didn't just name call... I mean, if something pisses you off, can't you be more creative than just calling them asshole, dumbass, or smartass?

Though I've heard another version of the story that Jimblast posted (which was considerably less politically biased than his), I must admit the use of a specific incident other than one printed by a less than reputable paper (the New York Post) is far more compelling. Granted, I wouldn't trust the words of anyone who attends a political rally to be unbiased other than a member of a neutral press agency....

 

[drew70]

Originally posted by kis123
Ice's thread on "A Change of Heart for Ice", was merely satire and sarcastic, only meant as a wierd joke. No way did he really change his liberal ways.

Hi Kis,
You make a good point. I've used satire and sarcasm myself many times, as you may already be aware. But long-time users of sarcasm and satire will tell you that when you belabor the same point even half as much as Icehole has, it loses its impact dramatically. If you step back a minute and think about it, your defense of him is but to say that the comments in his 20 or so posts on that thread are all bullshit. I'm in full agreement. But when one uses satire and sarcasm, you've got to go all the way with it. You can't just stop midstream and say, "hey I was being sarcastic and you should have realized it." Don't blame me for taking what he says at face value or ignoring any hidden meanings. That's the option of any recipient of sarcasm. It's literally the only recourse available especially if the originator of the sarcasm refuses to speak plainly.

Did you have to use the word "Icehole"? Was that really necessary? Name-calling isn't necessary. Just prove your point, state your case, and move on.

Name calling? Come on, it's just a "give'em a hard time" little nickname. I'm sure he doesn't take it any more seriously than I take his admonishment to me to "get a life." It's just friendly banter, nothing more.

 

[ShiningIce]

Name calling? Come on, it's just a "give'em a hard time" little nickname. I'm sure he doesn't take it any more seriously than I take his admonishment to me to "get a life." It's just friendly banter, nothing more.

Aww, did I hurt your feelings big guy? 🙁

I must admit if poor Drew isnt smart enough to grasp sarcasm then he has the right to take it seriously. I can see why you were so loved in the AMT Drew. Anyway back on topic...Rush Limbaugh is still a big fat idiot. 😛

 

[qjakal]

. Q, who are YOU calling onesided?? I've never heard anything close to moderate come from you. 🙄

Then you're just not looking or listening Sir Ice. I take a position on issues as common sense and my own experiences dictate, not according to a party policy or social happenstance, and have done so for years. To be specific, I'd bet we agree on abortion, animal rights, trade tariffs, race relations, health care, firearm controls, affirmative action and direct democracy, among other issues, while we most likely disagree on the death penalty, tax reform, censorship/info gathering, medical marijuana usage, the middle east and a few more...*shrug*. The issue of newspaper reporting styles is worthy of another whole thread, and much of the clamor in this one could have been avoided if it wasn't titled so provocatively. BUT, it IS a discussion forum after all, and if we ALL had exactly the same views on things it would be best renamed the Stepford Forum or somesuch. Keep 'em above the belt and let 'em fly. Once in a while I even learn things on here that eventually may contribute to my changing an opinion I've carried for a decade or 2. It doesn't happen in one thread, page or even year, but anything is possible when ideas get flying...

Q

 

[Tick-ler f/f]

Rush Limbaugh is still a big fat idiot. 😛

 

[MadKalnod]

Just a few questions for Mr. Franken regarding his Johnny-on-the-spot takedown:

1. Was this not a pre-emptive strike?

2. Isn’t it true, that the heckler did not pose an imminent threat to Dr. Dean?

3. The heckler was taunting, using language as a weapon, with no WMD evident.

4. Franken should have consulted the ACLU, Al Sharpton, Peter Jennings, and developed a multilateral consensus before attacking!

5. Isn’t this shocking Franken behavior reminiscent of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and Michael Moore?

6. Why couldn’t Franken give diplomacy a chance? Franken did not exhaust all avenues of diplomacy before his unilateral militaristic attack!

7. On what evidence, did Franken declare this heckler an illegal combatant?

 

[MrMacphisto]

Ok, Mad....

Very clever... I must admit, MadKalnod, your post thoroughly amused me. I got your point, and it was very creatively demonstrated. LOL