Anyone here for animal rights?

[aurora5150]

i think the OP's question isn't worded fairly. of course i don't want anyone to kill an animal just cuz. however dave2112 i agree with you and bugman as well. couldn't have stated it better myself.

 

[drew70]

I personally don't believe animals have rights, as it is a concept beyond them. But I do believe that as the dominant species of Planet Earth, women and men have a responsibility for the humane treatment of animals. I don't have a problem with the meat industry as long as the animals aren't treated cruelly and don't suffer a painful death. Vermin, insects, and other pests need to be eradicated from our homes for reasons of sanitation.

I think Dennis Miller is terrific comedian and I agree with many if not most of his view points, but I disagree with him on the animal testing. I've seen videos that are absolutely horrific. Hunting for food is reasonable, but hunting just for sport, to demonstrate one's superiority over a helpless animal is pretty fucked up in my opinion.

I have three dogs, two goats, and seventeen sheep, all of them rescues. I'm constantly amazed at how much personality these animals have. Anybody who says animals aren't capable of the emotion of love ought to come out to my "farm" some day.

 

[Headsnap]

My view on animal rights is the same as my view on other things that don't really matter. I consider myself an "animal well-wisher" in that I wish animals no specific harm, but I wouldn't go out of my way to defend their "rights" either.

I also dispute this notion that we have a duty of care to animals just because we happen to be sapient creatures whereas the animals are stupid. If spiders want me to take them out of the bath before I fill it so they don't drown, they need to stop biting me when I try to do so. If bears would like me to aid them in getting out of bear traps they can either not maul me while I'm doing that or they can figure out the mechanism for themselves. The same argument people make for our duty of care as humans can be used to refute it; animals are too stupid to look after themselves and thus they're also too stupid to know when we're trying to do good by them, so they attack and kill us. So they can fuck off.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

I find that people for animal rights generally care most about animals they find "cute". I saw a story recently on local news about a gradeschool class that was helping an aquarium release a baby seal that had been found injured, and nursed back to health. One of the students was commenting on her noble efforts in helping the seal as she swatted the sand flies that were landing on her.

The biggest killer of animals in the world is other animals. I guess cats should be held accountable in a court of law for the mice they slowly torture to death.

Even though you were making a serious point, I still found it funny. 😀

But yeah, I agree. I've never seen anyone concerned for these little dudes...

 

[SmarterthanU]

Kinda dumb? >=O Oh sure..These mice ain't exactly good for our health...but they don't deserve such inhumane treatment..Why kill a mouse, when you can just catch it and release it back outside...and don't give me this 'It'll come back' crap. >=( Why the hell would anyone want to kill a cute little mouse?

Seriously though. Thinka bout what your doing the next time your thinking about killing a mouse or a rat...Your basically killing it for merely living...They have done nothing wrong.

This is an interesting post. Just for the record, let me say that I'm a former member of PETA, and a former vegetarian.

Of course, there is no reason to kill an animal if it isn't doing any harm (or if it wouldn't do any harm if you released it). When you say, "They Have done nothing wrong," I think you mean, "They aren't causing any harm," right?

The way we see animals says a lot about us, I think. There are people who would kick a stray cat, and there are people who would think that was a horrible thing to do. There are people who defend animal fighting. My view is that some people have little or no inner compassion, and you can usually tell which people those are by how they treat animals.

Yes, I suppose there are people who would kick a stray cat on their way home from doing volunteer work at the children's hospital. I suspect I work with one or two people like that. But to me, someone who treats animals poorly has a severe character problem. That's not someone I want to know.

 

[*~Game Girl~*]

If you people choose to eat meat, then thats your choice. I ain't gonna stop you. But real fur clothing is a big HELL NO!!!

Animals are NOT for wearing. Alot of the most beautiful creatures on this planet are going extinct because people are killing them for they're fur or any other part of them. This is WRONG! I don't care what you people say. Animals should NEVER be worn. IT IS ILLEGAL!

Also...Animal testing pisses me off...I've seen pics of baby monkeys with their eyes sewn shut. What for? To test mascara. Fuck that shit. Another reasonw hy I refuse to wear make up. Chances are it was tested on a poor baby animal. I don't think half the people in this world realise how much pain they cause an animal due to testing. It's wrong, and I think it should stop altogether. Animals react differently to certain products...It could be ok to them..but deadly to humans...

So say NO to animal testing and fur clothing. You may save an entire species.

 

[Bugman]

Animals are NOT for wearing. Alot of the most beautiful creatures on this planet are going extinct because people are killing them for they're fur or any other part of them. This is WRONG! I don't care what you people say. Animals should NEVER be worn. IT IS ILLEGAL!

Just a question,nothing more.Which species are going extinct for their fur?Here in the US fur coats have long been made from animals such as minx that are raised on farms for no other purpose.Wheather thats ok can be debated.It has long been illegal to import the skins of any endangered species here for commercial purpose and i support that.If someone wants to buy a minx coat made from a farm raised animal who would not exist otherwise i don't see any difference between that and having a steak from a cow raised for that purpose as long as the animal is not subjected to unnessary cruelty.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

So say NO to animal testing and fur clothing. You may save an entire species.

What about animal testing for medicine ,like testing AIDS medicine on chimps?

I'd kill every monkey in the world with my bare hands to save one street hooker with AIDS.

- Penn Gillette

Sounds fair to me...

 

[*~Game Girl~*]

Then something has to be done! Wearing, or even owning fur clothing in my country is illegal. and it SHOULD be illegal in every country!

It's cruel how hunters kill these beautiful creatures and skin them! Right now, animals are murdered simply for human purposes! The meat, I ain't complaining about..It's clothings made from fur...ornaments made from certain parts of animals...This is wrong, vile and evil Animals don't deserve such cruelty. We're already losing tigers, pandas and many other creatures thanks to human greed! Why won't anyone see the damage humanity is causing to the animal world??

 

[SmarterthanU]

Quote:
I'd kill every monkey in the world with my bare hands to save one street hooker with AIDS.[/quote]
Let's think about this. Every monkey in the world to save one human? Really, that's a pretty nutty thing to say, isn't it? Are you sure Penn Jillette said that?

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Let's think about this. Every monkey in the world to save one human? Really, that's a pretty nutty thing to say, isn't it? Are you sure Penn Jillette said that?

Yeah, but he was just talking about how if you take away all animal testing, you will end up hurting humans. Don't take it too literally. It was on the end of the PETA episode of Bullshit! if I'm not mistaken, if you want to see it for yourself (I hope I didn't just misquote...)

 

[Fire_Sprite]

If you people choose to eat meat, then thats your choice. I ain't gonna stop you. But real fur clothing is a big HELL NO!!!

I never really understood people being okay with meat but not fur. They're the same thing. This day and age nobody has to eat meat to survive. Its a question of personal comfort. In both cases people believe that its justified for an animal to die so they can enjoy themselves. I'm not against meat or fur, but like me a lot of my friends are vegetarians and have the same viewpoints as you. Its always kinda of confused me.

Also...Animal testing pisses me off...I've seen pics of baby monkeys with their eyes sewn shut. What for? To test mascara. Fuck that shit. Another reasonw hy I refuse to wear make up. Chances are it was tested on a poor baby animal. I don't think half the people in this world realise how much pain they cause an animal due to testing. It's wrong, and I think it should stop altogether. Animals react differently to certain products...It could be ok to them..but deadly to humans...

So say NO to animal testing and fur clothing. You may save an entire species.

Getting rid of fur and meat eating are all fine debatable ideas. But getting rid of animal testing is out of the question. Without animal testing there is no such things as medical research. Every major medical innovation made in the last fifty years was given to an animal first to monitor the risks and benefits of it.

Also, its already been stated that people lose a lot of credibility in the argument when they're primarily in favor of saving cute animals over other ones. When you use phrases like "poor baby animals" you really lose ground in your arguement.

 

[SmarterthanU]

I never really understood people being okay with meat but not fur. They're the same thing.

Well, if they're the same thing, how come no one ever orders chinchilla, or fox, or mink in a restaurant?

It isn't the same thing. There's definitely a connection that could be argued between cowhide leather and beef - but of course animal activists don't use leather products of any kind. Unless you're an eskimo, fur is a luxury item. The fact that no one needs a mink coat and no one eats mink makes the fur industry pretty unjustifiable. If you think about it.

 

[Fire_Sprite]

I mean they're the same concepts from a moral standpoint. I didn't mean the same animal. Did you read the first sentence and call it a day? -_-

 

[SmarterthanU]

Getting rid of fur and meat eating are all fine debatable ideas. But getting rid of animal testing is out of the question. Without animal testing there is no such things as medical research. Every major medical innovation made in the last fifty years was given to an animal first to monitor the risks and benefits of it.

Actually there's a very good argument for using computer modeling instead of live animal testing in many situations. It's clear that it is not possible to do away with all animal testing. Sometimes it is scientifically required and is the only alternative currently. But much animal testing is needless, and should be stopped. Can we agree that needless animal testing is cruel?

 

[SmarterthanU]

I mean they're the same concepts from a moral standpoint. I didn't mean the same animal. Did you read the first sentence and call it a day? -_-

No, I didn't. They certainly are not the same from a moral perspective. Your claim that humans do not need to eat meat is actually highly controversial in the medical community. There are many scientists who insist that humans really do need to eat meat - that there are some complex proteins that cannot be gotten any other way. But it isn't controversial at all that fur coats are simply vanity items in all but a very minute number of cases.

 

[Fire_Sprite]

I'll agree animal testing that is necessary is cruel. But that's the price paid for the preservation of human lives. Even the makeup companies have to ensure that their products don't have any negative effects on the humans who use them.

As for the computer modeling thing, scientists won't need convincing on that. They want their experiments to be as accurate as possible. If we ever get to a point where computers or tissue samples can tell us more than animal testing, then you can bet scientist will completely drop that method for the sake of efficiency. Until then, humans first.

 

[SmarterthanU]

I'll agree animal testing that is necessary is cruel. But that's the price paid for the preservation of human lives.

But again, what about testing that could be done other ways? Especially if they acheive equal or better results?

Even the makeup companies have to ensure that their products don't have any negative effects on the humans who use them.

Actually, no they don't. Most animal testing in the cosmetics industry is done strictly for liability prevention. In short, because the cosmetic company lawyers make then do it. Over and over and over again. That's where a lot of needless testing occurs.

As for the computer modeling thing, scientists won't need convincing on that. They want their experiments to be as accurate as possible. If we ever get to a point where computers or tissue samples can tell us more than animal testing, then you can bet scientist will completely drop that method for the sake of efficiency. Until then, humans first.

Not so fast. Remember who pays for animal testing. 90% of the time, it's corporations. I know you don't think that corporations are going to opt for expensive computer modeling when cheap animal testing is not only available and legal, but tried and true in terms of liability reduction? Of course not.

 

[Fire_Sprite]

No, I didn't. They certainly are not the same from a moral perspective. Your claim that humans do not need to eat meat is actually highly controversial in the medical community. There are many scientists who insist that humans really do need to eat meat - that there are some complex proteins that cannot be gotten any other way. But it isn't controversial at all that fur coats are simply vanity items in all but a very minute number of cases.

Haven't eaten meat for two years, last time I checked I'm not dead. It's true that vegans generally aren't the hardiest bunch, but vegetarianism gives a much better mortality rate than people who eat meat. (Except people who only eat fish, they live the longest for some reason.)

"Many" scientists insisting something is not a valid scientific arguement. Give me a few minutes with google and I can find scientists insisting the earth is flat. Even if it was true, I still say they're the same thing. While you may be well aware that meat is essential to our diet, how many other frequent carnivores go through that through process? Do you think that the average person who eats meat has researched the medical benefits of certain lifestyles? They know only the basics.

1. I want it.
2. Animal died for it.

What do people who buy fur know?

1. I want it.
2. Animal died for it.

Again, I'm not against any lifestyle choices. But they really are the same thing.

 

[Babbles]

Not for make-up. Not for high school laboratories.

I greatly admire PETA, though I'm not a vegetarian, at least not yet,
(raised with meat & don't have the self-control)
I can see they're trying to make their points
(which may seem shocking if you haven't thought about them from that perspective)
--by loudly illustrating them in such a way they're not likely to be forgotten...

*Though the documentaries uncovering HORRIFIC, unnecessary tortures of animals held for food or science are usually aired 2-3 am when almost no one will see them...

MONEY/PROFIT is one reason animals are jam-packed into tiny cages or stalls, they shouldn't be treated like luggage mass-produced.

I won't wear fur --- those animals are born to suffer & die for no good reason. 🙁
But two close friends are from furrier families, luckily no longer in business. Neither is rich, or not any more. I never discussed this with them.

Unnecessary cruelty is unforgiveable, people who go out of their way to abuse animals, who are almost helpless against our technology,
should hopefully wind up in the same circle of Hell with child abusers.
They feel pain, that's enough.
Actually some are quite intelligent, and also feel fear. That's proven beyond any doubt. They also feel love, evidenced by actions towards humans and each other.

Bastards that set fire to or skin animals live should get the same treatment If there was some way to ensure innocent people wouldn't be falsely accused I'd lobby Washington for that.

What's equally scary is the VIVISECTION
of (any creature) in high school OR NON-MAJOR BIOLOGY LABS --- that's not necessary AT ALL, probably not in Bio majors' labs either...

and many of these animals (stolen, literally) or "provided" for disection as well, are not euthanized or killed (properly).
See the above reference to PETA videos.

I feel very guilty eating meat, but at least try to avoid whatever I know is tortured, such as veal, lobster, etc.
And I don't comment on what anyone else eats. My (vanilla) boyfriend scarfs everything down most of the time...

A good friend is a Vegan -- no meat, no fur, no leather, and she's the LAST person who'll advertise that fact.
I worked with her for almost a year before finding that out, she'll never criticize or make anyone uncomfortable.
Talk about living by example, she puts me to shame...

I just know I'd be quite scared to be a regular household pet.
Poor buggers are lucky if their "owners" are caring.

 

[SmarterthanU]

Haven't eaten meat for two years, last time I checked I'm not dead. It's true that vegans generally aren't the hardiest bunch, but vegetarianism gives a much better mortality rate than people who eat meat. (Except people who only eat fish, they live the longest for some reason.)

"Many" scientists insisting something is not a valid scientific arguement. Give me a few minutes with google and I can find scientists insisting the earth is flat. Even if it was true, I still say they're the same thing. While you may be well aware that meat is essential to our diet, how many other frequent carnivores go through that through process? Do you think that the average person who eats meat has researched the medical benefits of certain lifestyles? They know only the basics.

1. I want it.
2. Animal died for it.

What do people who buy fur know?

1. I want it.
2. Animal died for it.

Again, I'm not against any lifestyle choices. But they really are the same thing.

Hmmm. So by that logic, there's really no moral difference between eating beef and eating endangered species.

Beef

1. I want it.
2. Animal died for it.

Endangered Animal

1. I want it.
2. Animal died for it.

That can't be right, can it?

 

[Fire_Sprite]

How so?

The life of an endangered species is only valuable because we attach an imaginary significance to its race. From a natural standpoint a bald eagle's death has as much meaning as a sea slugs. Its all a question of whether or not you value life over comfort.

 

[Paultickler]

Are you Vegan?

 

[Fire_Sprite]

No.I see where this is going. Keep in mind I've yet to say eating meat or animal products is immoral.

 

[locker669]

I read somewhere that mice that are "raised" in a house cannot survive outside of it. So by releasing it outside it will either get killed by another animal or go back into your home or another home.