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Anyone here for animal rights?

youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY

The whole thing is good (shitty quality though), but the animal testing part starts at 12:00.
 
Y'know...As much as I despise conservatives, I have to say that the liberal left needs a swift kick in the balls on this subject.

I absolutely HATE animal testing.

The North American continent has a virtually endless supply of unrepennant criminals in maximum security federal penitentiaries(sp?) at our disposal.

There is no reason to torture a small kitten when a smug serial rapist will do nicely...Besides, they are closer to our biology than fluffy, are they not?:firedevil
 
This shop is 100% AGAINST vivisection (correct word for animal testing) and I support this shop all the way...
GG, 'vivisection' is not a synonym for animal testing, it's a type of animal testing (the worst kind). There are animal rights people who use the word incorrectly, because it sounds more horrible. But vivisection is surgery performed on animals for test purposes, often without anesthesia. When you see photos of conscious animals with their brain exposed, etc. - that's the result of vivisection. But correctly, all animal testing is not vivisection.
 
I love animals! I eat meat but I dont have a problem with those who choose not to. I have worked in rescue organizations and for a major pet store and have seen some REAL cruelty in the pet industry. One thing I was wondering is what people feel about this situation:

When I was with one cat rescue org.they had a no kill policey which I agreed with but not in this case. They had cats with HIV and Feline Lukeimia. Both are highly contagous within the speices. I felt bad for them because they were always in cages and never able to come out because of risk of infection of the other cats. The HIV cats were hooked to IVS and just sat in a cage. I didnt agree with this and eventually left the org when a new president came in.

I try to stay away from companies that I know test on animals but its hard. It sucks that testing goes on it really does but I supose some of it has helped improve the lives of people with diseases. I hate to even think about it! Have any of you seen the episode of House with the scientist that was experimenting on the rats? I was SOOOO grossed out and it really upset me but then the guy had a heart attach or something and fell down. The rat he was about to cut jumped down and started to bite him. Me and my husband were like "hell yeah!" nothing like poetic justice!
 
Y'know...As much as I despise conservatives, I have to say that the liberal left needs a swift kick in the balls on this subject.

I absolutely HATE animal testing.

The North American continent has a virtually endless supply of unrepennant criminals in maximum security federal penitentiaries(sp?) at our disposal.

There is no reason to torture a small kitten when a smug serial rapist will do nicely...Besides, they are closer to our biology than fluffy, are they not?:firedevil


How true this is! My sentiments exactly
 
More and more companies claim to be getting away from animal testing.
It doesn't seem like a good method anyways cause look at all the stupid medications that have been pulled off the market cause they were causing too many problems in humans.

The best you can really do is use as few products as you can that ARE tested on animals.
Of course it is almost impossible to escape all products that have been, but one tries to minimize.

One thing is, we know IAMS is one of the many culprits. YET they are the first to try to say how good their animals have it. I doubt IAMS or it's parent company are going to use the time and money to make that happen.
The company I work for is 100% vegan.

Nature is often cruel, true, but what kind of a sick fucking evil mother fucker could take a job where they torture animals for a living.

The only thing we can hope for people who do that is they are dumped in the worst level of hell after death. :firedevil
 
Did you defend the rights of the animals displaced by the building of your house?

I'm not for animal rights, but I am against animal cruelty.
 
Nature is often cruel, true

Yes, but we don't have to be. Nature is not sentient, therefore cannot be sadistic. Cruelty in nature is natural, unavoidable and based on instinct whereas human cruelty is often intentional, deliberate, and behind bad intentions.

but what kind of a sick fucking evil mother fucker could take a job where they torture animals for a living.

Some pest control operators. There was a case of one man who found a rat stuck on a glue trap, where he poked it and tormented it while laughing and recording it on his mobile phone (probably to post it on YouTube). I think the guy got sacked. Yeah, "pest control" alright.
 
I'm talking about situations where they do stupid enough things to get bitten.



I think you are full of shit, no offense. I've never, ever heard a story like that - unless it's some stupid urban legend. Rats are not vicious pack animals like some wild dogs are, they are timid animals that tend to avoid humans whenever possible because we are predators to them.

You're either buying into these silly stories or are making them up in order to justify some of the things us humans do to them.



So you're being selective towards which animals you hate seeing cruelty being inflicted upon. How immensely kind of you. :ermm:

As I had said, that they are vermin is not relevant. That does not mean one should torture one or give it a slow, painful death... you can't justify needless animal abuse just by attaching the "vermin" tag. That in itself is not only ridiculous, but very cold hearted. You said yourself you're not one for animal cruelty, yet your indifference and total apathy shows otherwise

This is all about being against pointless cruelty, and people who go out of their way to intentionally inflict it. On rats, on dogs, on cats... what ever animal. The double standard you are supporting destroys the notion that you dislike such cruelties. And as this has nothing to do with the necessity of killing.



Oh, I can list a lot of other diseases other animals carry. That rats carry disease is well known, so I don't know what your point is here. It is a moot one.

A lot of these diseases aren't transmitted as easily as you'd think, unless you don't clean up regularly or eat rat feces in your food (which is the primary method of transmission). Hell, if I had dog shit in my food I'd get incredibly ill too with a disease. BTW, hantavirus is carried by deer mice mostly. Disease doesn't magically transport to you just from looking at a rat, which is how some people actually think.



It would be interesting to see what they found from 200 stray dogs and cats, and raccoons. Perhaps even humans.

BTW, do you even know what 'antibodies' are?



Why are we arguing them about being vermin? OF course they are, well, in instances where they provide a problem anyway. But that's not the issue here. The point is not to be a fucking prick and have the decency to give these animals a quick death where possible.



And one man has the potential to create the actions that causes the death of millions of his own species. Your point? We've already established that they are pests, and why they need to be controlled. But that's not the point I'm making.

It's this kind of "oh I don't care how it dies or gets treated, it's only a (insert animal here)" attitude that is the reason why animal cruelty exists in the first place. It royally shits me, because with such an attitude people think they can do whatever they want with "lesser species", including unspeakable things (such as the situation I described earlier). Maybe if people had more respect for life in general, and had an ounce of compassion, we would see less acts of pointless cruelty and/or sadism.

You're over blowing the cons of an animal you don't like, so you can dismiss any ethical consideration towards it as if it was a waste of time. And then be as blatantly hypocritical as changing your tune for seals. Do you even know why animal cruelty is hated in the first place? I'll give you a hint: it's not because of what animal it is - something you seem to be using, and completely disregarding obviously cruel acts towards creature B because it's "vermin". I don't even have to begin to explain why that is morally incomprehensible, no matter how inconsequential it may seem to be.

I'll say this to you again, because you seem to be ignoring this small, yet vital statement: They're living, breathing, feeling creatures... and even though at times they are pests, they're not demonic objects.

Ann Street (Manhattan)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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"Quaint name, Ann street. Width of same, ten feet." -Words of the song Ann Street by Charles Ives.Ann Street is a 3-block long street located in the Financial District of the New York City borough of Manhattan just a few blocks from City Hall. Ann Street is famous for obscurity, carny atmosphere, shortness, rats and narrow width.

Contents [hide]
1 History
1.1 Early history
1.2 Rats
1.3 Ann Street today
2 Ann Street in popular culture
2.1 Song by Charles Ives
2.2 "Barnum's Mob" on Ann Street
3 References
4 See also
5 External links



[edit] History

Ann Street (in yellow) is not far from New York City Hall.
[edit] Early history
See also: List of eponymous streets in New York City
Ann Street is one of the oldest streets in New York City, appearing on a map created in 1728. Ann Street was named after Ann White, the wife of a developer and merchant, Capt. Thomas White. She may have urged him to name the street after her because other merchants' wives already had streets named after them.[1] The street is relatively small and short compared with the other lower Manhattan streets named after merchants wives. Some might consider it little more than an alley.

There have been several other streets in the city named Ann Street. One laid out between Reade and Franklin Streets prior to 1797 later became Elm Street. "Anne Street" was also a name circa 1748 for part of the present William Street. Today, there is only one Ann Street in Manhattan.


[edit] Rats
On May 10, 1979, a woman was attacked on Ann Street by a "pack of rats" as she was walking to her car. The woman hurried in to the car and the rats climbed on to it. Several witnesses called the police. The rats were later found living on the burnt out wreck of "Ryan's Cafe," a bar that had served the area since the 1860s. The bar exploded due to a gas leak on December 11, 1970, and remained an empty lot through the 1970s. This empty lot was widely regarded to be the source of the rat problem.[2]

The city tugboat strike in 1979 compounded the problem as heaps of garbage collected on Ann Street and in the abandoned lot causing the rat population to explode. The rat attack incident prompted Mayor Lindsay to order city pest control to take immediate action on the problem. They killed and trapped hundreds of rats in just a few days, drawing media attention. The close proximity of Ann Street to City Hall made the the incident all the more embarrassing. It helped to add to negative impressions of the city for years, but it also prompted people to act to improve downtown.[3]


[edit] Ann Street today
The recent addition of condominiums to the upper floors of the some of older buildings has added more life to the area. Ann Street was gutted and repaved in 2006, as a pert of a city water main replacement project, greatly reducing the rat problems and further beautifying the area. The corner of Ann Street and Broadway is still as busy as it was in Barnum's day, shoppers and tourists frequent J&R Computer World, one of the largest electronics stores in the nation.


[edit] Ann Street in popular culture

"Nassau crosses Ann Street!" (View down Nassau Street from Ann Street in Lower Manhattan.)
Barnum's American Museum was located on Ann Street.
[edit] Song by Charles Ives
Ann Street is the title and subject of a song by the early 20th century experimental classical composer Charles Ives with lyrics based on a poem written by Maurice Morris in 1921:

[Shout.]
Broadway!

[Sing.]
Quaint name Ann street.
Width of same, ten feet.
Barnums mob Ann street,
Far from ob- solete.
Narrow, yes Ann street,
But business, Both feet.

[Shout.]
Nassau crosses Ann Street!

[Sing.]
Sun just hits Ann street,
Then it quits Some greet!
Rather short, Ann Street.



The crossing of Nassau Street and Ann Street is a highlight of the song and the street itself. Nassau Street is a High Street filled with shops. At the intersection one can see a view deep in to the heart of the Financial District and the facade of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) six blocks away. Nassau Street and Ann Street meet at uneven angles leading one to feel rather surprised by the sudden explosion of pedestrian traffic, shops and lights when crossing their intersection.


[edit] "Barnum's Mob" on Ann Street
Main article: Barnum's American Museum
"Barnum's American Museum" located on the corner of Ann Street and Broadway was one of the most popular showplaces in the United States. He made a special hit in 1842 with the exhibition of Charles Stratton, the celebrated midget "General Tom Thumb", as well as the Fiji Mermaid which he exhibited in collaboration with his Boston counterpart Moses Kimball.

The line in the Charles Ives song: Barmun's Mob, Ann Street is most likely a reference to the crowds drawn to see the curiosities at this museum.


[edit] References
^ The Street Book: An Encyclopedia of Manhattan's Street Names and Their Origins - by Henry Moscow
^ "Scores of Rats Are Found at Site Where They Attacked a Woman; Consequences of Rat Bites Poison Injected Into Burrows", The New York Times by Pranay B. Gupte, May 12, 1979. p. 25
^ Rats: Observations on the History and Habitat of the City's Most Unwanted Inhabitant - by Robert Sullivan

[edit] See also
Broadway (Manhattan)
Nassau Street (Manhattan)
Park Row (Manhattan)

[edit] External links
About the Song by Charles Ives
Ann Street Water Main Replacement Project
Alleys Of Lower Manhattan
[hide]v • d • eStreets and avenues of Manhattan
North-South Downtown South St · Essex St · Orchard St · Ludlow St · Allen St · Forsyth St · Pearl St/Bowery · Mott St · Mulberry St · Centre St · Lafayette St · Broad St · Nassau St · Broadway · West Broadway · Patchin Pl · Varick St · Hudson St · Greenwich St · Washington St · Weehawken St
Midtown East River Dr/FDR Dr · Av D · Av C/Loisaida Av · Av B/East End Av · Av A/Beekman Pl/Sutton Pl/York Av/Pleasant Av · 1st Av · 2nd Av · 3rd Av · Lexington Av · 4th Av/Park Av · Vanderbilt Av · Madison Av · 5th Av/Museum Mile · 6th Av/Av of the Americas/Lenox Av/Malcolm X Blvd · 7th Av/Adam Clayton Powell Jr. Blvd · 8th Av/Central Park West/Frederick Douglas Blvd · 9th Av/Columbus Av/Morningside Dr · Dyer Av · 10th Av/Amsterdam Av · 11th Av/West End Av · Riverside Dr · 12th Av/West Side Hwy · 13th Av · Henry Hudson Pkwy
Uptown Harlem River Dr · Audubon Av · St. Nicholas Av/Juan Pablo Duarte Blvd · Ft Washington Av · Cabrini Blvd

East-West Downtown Bridge St · Wall St · Liberty St · Fulton St · Ann St · Park Row · Chambers St · Cherry St · Henry St · Worth St · East Broadway · Doyers St/Bloody Angle · N. Moore St · Beach St · Canal St · Hester St · Grand St · Delancey St · Rivington St · Stanton St · Houston St · 1-14: (1st St, Bleecker St, 2nd St, 3rd St/Great Jones St, West 4th St, 6th St, Waverly Pl/Washington Sq North, Washington Mews, Astor Pl, Gay St, 8th St/St. Mark's Pl, Christopher St, Stuyvesant St, West 10th St, 13th St, 14th St)
Midtown 15-59: (17th St, 23-42: (23rd St, 24th St, 25th St, 26th St, 27th St/Club Row, 28th St, 29th St, 30th St, 31st St, 32nd St/Korea Way, 33rd St, 34th St, 35th St, 36th St, 37th St, 38th St, 39th St, 40th St, 41st St, 42nd St), 47th St, 50th St, 52nd St/Street of Jazz, 53rd St, 57th St, 59th St/Central Park South)
Uptown 66th St/Peter Jennings Way · 72nd St · 79th St · 85th St · 86th St · 96th St · 110th St/Central Park North · 112th St · 116th St · 118th St · 122nd St · 125th St/Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd · Astor Row · 132nd St · 155th St · Trans-Manhattan Expwy · 181st St · 187th St · Bogardius Pl · Dyckman St · Beak St

List of eponymous streets in New York City

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Street_%28Manhattan%29"
Category: Streets in Manhattan

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I'm talking about situations where they do stupid enough things to get bitten.



I think you are full of shit, no offense. I've never, ever heard a story like that - unless it's some stupid urban legend. Rats are not vicious pack animals like some wild dogs are, they are timid animals that tend to avoid humans whenever possible because we are predators to them.

You're either buying into these silly stories or are making them up in order to justify some of the things us humans do to them.



So you're being selective towards which animals you hate seeing cruelty being inflicted upon. How immensely kind of you. :ermm:

As I had said, that they are vermin is not relevant. That does not mean one should torture one or give it a slow, painful death... you can't justify needless animal abuse just by attaching the "vermin" tag. That in itself is not only ridiculous, but very cold hearted. You said yourself you're not one for animal cruelty, yet your indifference and total apathy shows otherwise

This is all about being against pointless cruelty, and people who go out of their way to intentionally inflict it. On rats, on dogs, on cats... what ever animal. The double standard you are supporting destroys the notion that you dislike such cruelties. And as this has nothing to do with the necessity of killing.



Oh, I can list a lot of other diseases other animals carry. That rats carry disease is well known, so I don't know what your point is here. It is a moot one.

A lot of these diseases aren't transmitted as easily as you'd think, unless you don't clean up regularly or eat rat feces in your food (which is the primary method of transmission). Hell, if I had dog shit in my food I'd get incredibly ill too with a disease. BTW, hantavirus is carried by deer mice mostly. Disease doesn't magically transport to you just from looking at a rat, which is how some people actually think.



It would be interesting to see what they found from 200 stray dogs and cats, and raccoons. Perhaps even humans.

BTW, do you even know what 'antibodies' are?



Why are we arguing them about being vermin? OF course they are, well, in instances where they provide a problem anyway. But that's not the issue here. The point is not to be a fucking prick and have the decency to give these animals a quick death where possible.



And one man has the potential to create the actions that causes the death of millions of his own species. Your point? We've already established that they are pests, and why they need to be controlled. But that's not the point I'm making.

It's this kind of "oh I don't care how it dies or gets treated, it's only a (insert animal here)" attitude that is the reason why animal cruelty exists in the first place. It royally shits me, because with such an attitude people think they can do whatever they want with "lesser species", including unspeakable things (such as the situation I described earlier). Maybe if people had more respect for life in general, and had an ounce of compassion, we would see less acts of pointless cruelty and/or sadism.

You're over blowing the cons of an animal you don't like, so you can dismiss any ethical consideration towards it as if it was a waste of time. And then be as blatantly hypocritical as changing your tune for seals. Do you even know why animal cruelty is hated in the first place? I'll give you a hint: it's not because of what animal it is - something you seem to be using, and completely disregarding obviously cruel acts towards creature B because it's "vermin". I don't even have to begin to explain why that is morally incomprehensible, no matter how inconsequential it may seem to be.

I'll say this to you again, because you seem to be ignoring this small, yet vital statement: They're living, breathing, feeling creatures... and even though at times they are pests, they're not demonic objects.

Let me ask you somthing ok? I see your from NY like I am. So where do you live in a nice house somewhere or perhaps in one of the high rise apartments on Central Park West? Where? Before you give me a "lets be humain to all the rats" lecture why dont you try living in the South Bronx for a while and tell those people all you stated here about how rats cant help themselves ok. In fact smart guy how about you live there for a week and then come back then and tell me Im full of shit ok? Talk to poor people that are forced to live with that kind of vermin as they are too poor to have any other choice and tell them about your humain crusade and watch them laugh in your face. Buy the way young man as you see above I copied and pasted that story I mentioned before that you thought I made up about the woman that was attacked by a pack of rats on Ann Street in manhattan.
 
Before you give me a "lets be humain to all the rats" lecture why dont you try living in the South Bronx for a while and tell those people all you stated here about how rats cant help themselves ok. In fact smart guy how about you live there for a week and then come back then and tell me Im full of shit ok?

I have friends who live there, and I am fully aware of the conditions. At least they have the fucking decency to kill animals quickly when possible. See, I have no idea why you seem to condone inhumane killing when you can get the same result by killing these animals swiftly so that they don't suffer unduly.

It appears you have some sort of prejudice against these animals that is not based on a rational assessment of their ability to feel pain. In fact you seem to be ignoring this very vital point.

Talk to poor people that are forced to live with that kind of vermin as they are too poor to have any other choice and tell them about your humain crusade and watch them laugh in your face.

What's so funny about having a general respect for life, and the common decency to deliver a humane death? In fact, isn't it good for people to be educated about using more humane methods of control, especially methods of prevention? Silly me, I thought minimising animal cruelty was a noble and good thing to do. Well, according to you I guess that notion is ridiculous, funny and not needed. Gee, you're a nice person aren't you?

By the way, it is humane. Learn to spell please.

You seem to think that I'm saying they shouldn't kill them, which is baseless. All I'm saying is that when you kill an animal, it shouldn't be done slowly and painfully. That's just you being a cruel dipstick. Being poor has nothing to do with this at all...

Buy the way young man as you see above I copied and pasted that story I mentioned before that you thought I made up about the woman that was attacked by a pack of rats on Ann Street in manhattan.

Wikipedia? You know, the supposed "encyclopedia" where people can edit at will? Rofl? Where is your actual source to this story? Do you have an actual newspaper article, or anything credible to validate it?

Why am I bothering with you? You don't seem to address any points I am making here. Instead you waffle on about something as irrelevant as poverty and how they would laugh at me about some sort of "crusade". Jesus H. Christ, my parents were living in poverty when they were young, on a farm where they had rodents too. Did that stop them from giving them a quick death when they were forced to kill them? Of course not. Poverty doesn't give you an excuse to torture animals and show a complete disrespect of life.

I don't care if you are poor, rich, or an alien from outer space. Intentional cruelty when there is no need is just wrong, and people who do it are sick in the head.

Hell, you even said yourself that you don't approve of animal cruelty. So why are we arguing? In fact, do you even know what I am arguing about here? Instead of glossing over my posts, perhaps you should read them carefully because I do make my stance on this issue quite clear. In one sentence, I will say if for you (because it seems to difficult for you to debate the actual points raised here): The point is not to be a cruel prick and have the decency to give these animals a quick death where possible.
 
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Kinda dumb? >=O Oh sure..These mice ain't exactly good for our health...but they don't deserve such inhumane treatment..Why kill a mouse, when you can just catch it and release it back outside...and don't give me this 'It'll come back' crap. >=( Why the hell would anyone want to kill a cute little mouse?

Seriously though. Thinka bout what your doing the next time your thinking about killing a mouse or a rat...Your basically killing it for merely living...They have done nothing wrong.
This is old as all hell but I simply can't pass this up lest I go pour boiling water on ants.

Why kill a mouse when you can just catch it and release it back outside? Because nobody has the time to sit around and wait for a fucking mouse. You can either waste your time and lose food/furniture/infants to the mouse while you're waiting for it and trying (failing) to catch, or you could just kill it (or get one of those trapdoor mouse traps (PROPOSTEROUS!). Cute little mice are cute when they're pets, not pests.

And rats can spread disease. Why get rid of a snake? It hasn't bitten you yet! Why kill the ants? They just want somewhere to live! Why destroy the spiderweb inconveniently placed in the doorway? The spider just wanted a home!

Animal rights are a joke. Seriously, I'm not one to kick dogs out of anger, I love my pets as much as any other (sane) pet owner, but when you're handing your house over on a silver platter to a bunch of pests, then you have issues. Torturing animals (or any living being) is twisted, I understand that, but exterminating animals/pests that present bad living conditions is not a sin.
 
I have friends who live there, and I am fully aware of the conditions. At least they have the fucking decency to kill animals quickly when possible. See, I have no idea why you seem to condone inhumane killing when you can get the same result by killing these animals swiftly so that they don't suffer unduly.

It appears you have some sort of prejudice against these animals that is not based on a rational assessment of their ability to feel pain. In fact you seem to be ignoring this very vital point.



What's so funny about having a general respect for life, and the common decency to deliver a humane death? In fact, isn't it good for people to be educated about using more humane methods of control, especially methods of prevention? Silly me, I thought minimising animal cruelty was a noble and good thing to do. Well, according to you I guess that notion is ridiculous, funny and not needed. Gee, you're a nice person aren't you?

By the way, it is humane. Learn to spell please.

You seem to think that I'm saying they shouldn't kill them, which is baseless. All I'm saying is that when you kill an animal, it shouldn't be done slowly and painfully. That's just you being a cruel dipstick. Being poor has nothing to do with this at all...



Wikipedia? You know, the supposed "encyclopedia" where people can edit at will? Rofl? Where is your actual source to this story? Do you have an actual newspaper article, or anything credible to validate it?

Why am I bothering with you? You don't seem to address any points I am making here. Instead you waffle on about something as irrelevant as poverty and how they would laugh at me about some sort of "crusade". Jesus H. Christ, my parents were living in poverty when they were young, on a farm where they had rodents too. Did that stop them from giving them a quick death when they were forced to kill them? Of course not. Poverty doesn't give you an excuse to torture animals and show a complete disrespect of life.

I don't care if you are poor, rich, or an alien from outer space. Intentional cruelty when there is no need is just wrong, and people who do it are sick in the head.

Hell, you even said yourself that you don't approve of animal cruelty. So why are we arguing? In fact, do you even know what I am arguing about here? Instead of glossing over my posts, perhaps you should read them carefully because I do make my stance on this issue quite clear. In one sentence, I will say if for you (because it seems to difficult for you to debate the actual points raised here): The point is not to be a cruel prick and have the decency to give these animals a quick death where possible.

I have no problem what so ever with the humaine treatment of animals. What Im talking about here is your sort of cavalier resistance to simple common sense when it comes to dealing with vermin. And of course I have a prejudice, THEY ARE FILTHY RATS! The reason why we are going back and forth with this so much is not so much what you say but how your coming across on here. Your very insulting and you dont come of as a very mature person. Perhaps if you stopped cursing so much then I can take you a little more seriously. But I feel like Im talking to a high school kid here.

I mentioned to you what happened to that woman in manhattan and I cut and paste for everyone the very same story I told you and now your saying wikapedia is not a sound source of information.Yes Im well aware people can edit there and there is some inaccuracy. But how about you putting a simple 2 and 2 together and stop living in denial and just admit you were wrong, be a man and admit perhaps this story of her really did happen? Why would I say somthing and then show you the EXACT same thing later in print to prove my point? Do you want more sources as I know i can find them all to easy. And if you bothered to look at what I posted earlier I pretty much agree with the young lady that started this post. I just think she is going about making her point the wrong way. And you telling me about humaine treatment for slum dwelling rats does not help your point either.
 
I have no problem what so ever with the humaine treatment of animals.

You apparently seem to do when I include rats in that list. Or aren't they animals to you?

What Im talking about here is your sort of cavalier resistance to simple common sense when it comes to dealing with vermin.

When it comes to dealing with vermin, you kill them. That's enough common sense... it also takes quite a bit of common sense to realise they are mammals, that they can also feel pain and that it is wrong to prolong unnecessary pain when killing them. Could I put this ever more BLUNTLY for you, or should I spoon feed it to you?

And of course I have a prejudice, THEY ARE FILTHY RATS!

Prejudice is illogical, and not only that, but stupid.

Your very insulting and you dont come of as a very mature person.

I am insulting because you make stupid remarks, and your arguments are entirely nonsensical. You also do nothing to refute what I had said, and instead type some irrelevant gibberish about poverty.

Perhaps if you stopped cursing so much then I can take you a little more seriously. But I feel like Im talking to a high school kid here.

No, a high school kid would ignore statements entirely. I've refuted everything you've thrown at me, and once more, I consolidated my argument on the matter further by questioning some of your hypocritical thinking.

I mentioned to you what happened to that woman in manhattan and I cut and paste for everyone the very same story I told you and now your saying wikapedia is not a sound source of information.

Yes, exactly. You probably even got that story from the website... or figured an urban myth would make a great news story on an unreliable site. It is a rubbish source - wikipedia is not known for its accuracy on these issues. For all I know you could've written all that yourself previously. Cutting and pasting from a site that didn't even link its sources isn't good enough. Give me a genuine newspaper article, you know, a credible source.

But how about you putting a simple 2 and 2 together and stop living in denial and just admit you were wrong, be a man and admit perhaps this story of her really did happen?

I work as a veterinarian for a living, so I am well aware of what some animals can or cannot do. Rats just don't group up and attack people like that, because they are timid animals and are too small to effectively do what you had described. A pack of stray, starving dogs would be more apt.

And you telling me about humaine treatment for slum dwelling rats does not help your point either.

That is my point. All animals with the capacity to feel pain deserve humane treatment, and not a slow lingering death when you must kill them. This includes rats. How hard is it for you to understand that - in fact what is wrong with this in the first place? That the fact they're just rats means this shouldn't apply to them? How ridiculous and hypocritical, not to mention obviously cruel.

Otherwise you are condoning needless cruelty via a double standard - which you said you are against. No problem with humane treatment of animals my left foot!
 
but exterminating animals/pests that present bad living conditions is not a sin.

I would say exterminating them in a torturous manner when there is no need to, is a sin. If you can get the same result (their removal/death/whatever) without being needlessly cruel, then isn't that a good thing?

Why kill a mouse when you can just catch it and release it back outside? Because nobody has the time to sit around and wait for a fucking mouse.

If you can make time to set traps which kill them, and dispose of their bodies then you can make time to capture live ones and release them.

This wouldn't work in some cases though, so sometimes killing is a necessity. What I hate though are people use this as an excuse to do horrible things (ie. kill them by burning them alive, or starving them to death). In that case it goes beyond pest control to intentional animal abuse.

I strongly believe in minimising the suffering of an animal if you're going to kill it. It shouldn't matter what kind of animal it is either, if it feels fear/pain, at least have the decency to give it a quick death.
 
10 billion aliens land on Earth. They are superior to humans in every way - physiologically and psychologically, and very quickly dominate the planet and everything on it.

To them, humans are filthy, stupid, disease-carrying pests who are destroying Earth.

From a moral perspective, what rights should humans have under this scenerio? Should the new dominant species feel free to hunt us for sport? Experiment on us? Treat us like -- animals?
 
10 billion aliens land on Earth. They are superior to humans in every way - physiologically and psychologically, and very quickly dominate the planet and everything on it.

To them, humans are filthy, stupid, disease-carrying pests who are destroying Earth.

From a moral perspective, what rights should humans have under this scenerio? Should the new dominant species feel free to hunt us for sport? Experiment on us? Treat us like -- animals?


You bet.
 
It's rather obvious that nobody here is going to agree, so I vote that we burn down the planet and start from scratch.:couch:
 
...

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here support animal rights? I sure as hell do! In my town, I have been known as one of the raging animal activists...I despise anyone who abuses animals...I even got pissed off at my parents for setting mouse traps around our house. (i found all the traps and destroyed them)

I'm also a hardcore vegetarian. XD Cause I believe eating animals is wrong.

Anyone else feel as strongly for animals as I do?

I feel very strongly about animal rights. It shocks and saddens me that more than 6 million homeless animals are euthanized in the U.S. each year, and I've been active in campaigning for a number of issues like bringing an end to factory farming, and promoting alternatives to the current research environment that inflicts so much harm on animals.

Thanks for posting about this.
 
You apparently seem to do when I include rats in that list. Or aren't they animals to you?



When it comes to dealing with vermin, you kill them. That's enough common sense... it also takes quite a bit of common sense to realise they are mammals, that they can also feel pain and that it is wrong to prolong unnecessary pain when killing them. Could I put this ever more BLUNTLY for you, or should I spoon feed it to you?



Prejudice is illogical, and not only that, but stupid.



I am insulting because you make stupid remarks, and your arguments are entirely nonsensical. You also do nothing to refute what I had said, and instead type some irrelevant gibberish about poverty.



No, a high school kid would ignore statements entirely. I've refuted everything you've thrown at me, and once more, I consolidated my argument on the matter further by questioning some of your hypocritical thinking.



Yes, exactly. You probably even got that story from the website... or figured an urban myth would make a great news story on an unreliable site. It is a rubbish source - wikipedia is not known for its accuracy on these issues. For all I know you could've written all that yourself previously. Cutting and pasting from a site that didn't even link its sources isn't good enough. Give me a genuine newspaper article, you know, a credible source.



I work as a veterinarian for a living, so I am well aware of what some animals can or cannot do. Rats just don't group up and attack people like that, because they are timid animals and are too small to effectively do what you had described. A pack of stray, starving dogs would be more apt.



That is my point. All animals with the capacity to feel pain deserve humane treatment, and not a slow lingering death when you must kill them. This includes rats. How hard is it for you to understand that - in fact what is wrong with this in the first place? That the fact they're just rats means this shouldn't apply to them? How ridiculous and hypocritical, not to mention obviously cruel.

Otherwise you are condoning needless cruelty via a double standard - which you said you are against. No problem with humane treatment of animals my left foot!

You know Im not going to waste my time with you. Your mean spirited you cant seem to keep things from getting on a personal level and most of all your a blithering moron!!
 
This was posted in USA today earlier this year

« Conflicting signals on Obama's support among African-Americans | Main | Libby trial abuzz about 'mystery note' from jurors »

Rat attacks infant in her crib
WARNING: This posting contains graphic information that will disturb some readers.

An infant remains hospitalized in Kansas City three days after a rodent ripped off part of her face while she was sleeping in a crib next to her parent's bed.

Here's how the Kansas City Star is reporting the news:

The baby, who was born prematurely, wears a heart and breathing monitor. About 8:40 a.m. Sunday, the parents heard the monitor’s alarm and saw their baby lying in a pool of blood. Her nose and part of her upper lip were gone.

The parents found rat feces in the crib. Police said they think milk or formula that the baby spat up attracted the rat.

"Unfortunately, when babies vomit, they tend to vomit out their nose and that's why the rat bit the nose and bit the upper lip and everything," Michael Swoyer, the city's rat expert, tells KMBC-TV. (Video)

"They can chew through lead pipes. They can chew through wood, poorly cured concrete, just about everything. Their teeth are harder than iron," Swoyer says. "They're very smart animals -- extremely smart; about as smart as a dog."

Swoyer tells the Star "rats can get into a house by squeezing into a hole the size of a quarter, and they can bite six times per second."

WIBW-TV says the baby remains hospitalized.

Posted by Mike Carney at 09:00 AM/ET, February 28, 2007 in Health/Science, Local news | Permalink
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This takes my distaste for these rodents to a whole new level.

Baby, fight that good fight.

Posted by: Keep It Real | Feb 28, 2007 12:32:55 PM



That's a really gross story. Hope the baby will be okay.

Posted by: clarice | Feb 28, 2007 11:51:27 AM



This is disgusting. The child may need plastic surgery to corrrect any rat-related damage. How does the child explain to people when they get older, that a rat was involved in the current sculpture of their face?

Posted by: John Holmes | Feb 28, 2007 10:08:13 AM



EWWWWWWWWWWW!

wish i hadn't read this one. hope the baby is ok

Posted by: go go go | Feb 28, 2007 9:55:09 AM
 
I would say exterminating them in a torturous manner when there is no need to, is a sin. If you can get the same result (their removal/death/whatever) without being needlessly cruel, then isn't that a good thing?
If you had read my entire post you would see that this is a statement I have already addressed. Exterminating pests is not wrong. Torturing them is.
 
You know Im not going to waste my time with you. Your mean spirited you cant seem to keep things from getting on a personal level and most of all your a blithering moron!!

Waah Waah you can't debate my points because you have no counter arguments whatsoever.

And what is your point about posting that article? We know rats can be dangerous but hell... so can a golden retriever, or any other animal with sharp teeth. The rat was attracted to the milk, it didn't just turn around and think "oh, look, a human baby... I'm gonna eat her face". The rat expert even admitted as much. This only backs up the argument that I actually agree with that rats do need to be controlled... but to paint them out like they're evil little devils and not actually animals is ludicrous.

It does nothing to strengthen your argument, it already shows that we already know. It is besides the point... if you're going to bother arguing with me, at least stick with the topic.
 
If you had read my entire post you would see that this is a statement I have already addressed. Exterminating pests is not wrong. Torturing them is.

Good, just making sure, as some people can be selective in regards to such cruelty (hello brianspencer66).
 
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