Are safewords really necessary?

[Eroticklee]

OK, I guess I interpreted "What's the worst that could happen? The 'lee could pass out?" kind of the same way i interpret that in real life - as a rhetorical question implying that the worst thing that could happen isn't anything to fear. You're right, I wasn't there when you said it. None of us are ever "there" when anyone types anything ... I dunno. Whatever.

Thanks. I didn't mean to be snippy. It's just that I'm real new to posting now, and I don't want anyone to think that I'm being a wiseguy. After you get to know me, THEN I'll be a wiseguy, er girl. 🙂

 

[Eroticklee]

I completely agree. Safewords in a gathering environment are an absolute necessity.



Or the lee might completely lose trust in you and never allow you to touch them again. Or have serious trepidation with allowing anyone to tickle them again which signals some emotional damage. A MUCH worse situation.

This thread is a good one... definitely made me think about my opinion of safewords and even lead me to reconsider my opinion of letting someone tickle me who didn't know me well enough that I felt I had to use one. There have only been one or two examples ever where I didn't use a safeword with someone I didn't know to the extent that we were in a relationship together. And that was only because I trusted the experience of the 'ler to judge my reactions appropriately. And I was curious to see what it would be like. 😉

I've never been to a gathering. I don't think I read this thread correctly. I thought the conversation was about safewords with a regular tickler. I would DEFINITELY want to have a safe word with someone I just met, but at home, its not necessary. My husband knows exactly how far he can push me, and then some. 😉

 

[bttf4444]

I think you would have to tickle someone for a very long time before it can be fatal - unless the ticklee has asthma or something. You can laugh constantly for a few days, before it's fatal. Most ticklees would probably simply pass out, before it got to that point.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

This makes me think of all the people I've encountered who have such a violent aversion to tickling, because of some tickle-abuse inflicted on them in their childhood. Sure they are fine physically, but now associate the act with unpleasantness. Of course, it's really the violation of trust that is the issue, but tickling being the vehicle used, is what becomes more easily associated, and thus deplored.

Good point, ter. One of the things that would lead me to use my safeword (though I'd definately be ticked off about it) would be if I felt a serious flashback coming on. Tickling in a certain way, doing certain things while tickling or hitting a certain spot are all triggers to that. They may always be triggers. So, it's something I always struggle to keep in check as I go through a session. I almost always slip into that a bit during a good tickle session. But, I can generally keep it in check and not let it take hold. On those occassions where I'm losing my ability to do so, there isn't time to have someone "figure it out". By the time there's anything physical for them to notice, it's too late.

That's probably the biggest reason why I will rarely play without a safeword. Some people understand that. Others don't. But, it's not something that I'm willing to give in on. I've had people say "So you remember something unpleasant. Just brush it off." Those are people who are ignorant to what a flashback really is. I don't just remember things, I RELIVE them...feeling every bit of it. Since what I flash to is having been tortured (and we're talking real torture here, not just tickling), I really have no desire to go there. If a person can't get that through their head, they aren't someone I want to play with anyway.

[Note: I just looked back at this and cringed. That last part was frustration speaking and not directed at anyone. Don't mind me. Sheeesh! 🙄 ]

 

[simulated]

We asked about her safeword.

"Whats my safeword? Get the fuck off of me goddammit!"

 

[LindyHopper]

"Whats my safeword? Get the fuck off of me goddammit!"

Or, "Red." Take your pick. 😛

 

[TickledToDeath]

I wasn't just referring to gatherings although I did mention my opinion of safewords and gatherings in my post.

Yeah, I think it took longer to tie kitten up then she lasted being tickled! The little wussette she is! 😛

 

[Cavum]

Lately I've been thinking that we've really sold ourselves short in the tickling community by latching onto safewords as a necessary tool. I mean, this isn't S&M where people are getting whipped with bamboo canes and there's a chance that someone could really get hurt.

To be honest Im dissipointed that a guy in your possision say this words. S&M is so much more that whipping and such. To be tied and tickled is as much S&M than being tied down and spanked. I know alot of people don't think of this, but it's a fact.

Safewords is always something you should have, but there is people who want to do stuff without then. Thats OK to do. The moust important thing with this kind of stuff is communication. When you are playing with a person you don't know so good (for example a girl for a tickling video) a safeword should allways be present. If it's OK for the other part that you don't use it than it's also OK, but then you must consentrate more on how the submissive part is doing. Read body language is something everyone (hopefully) can do. Even if a safeword isn't used you can see if a person can't breath or something like that.

 

[TMF Jeff]

To be honest Im dissipointed that a guy in your possision say this words. S&M is so much more that whipping and such. To be tied and tickled is as much S&M than being tied down and spanked. I know alot of people don't think of this, but it's a fact.

I don't know what you think you knew about me before that makes this disappointing to you, but ok 😎

The truth is, tickling isn't part of S&M. You can incorporate it into S&M, but it's not automatically that. People tickle other people without involving S&M all the time. People rarely whip other people with bamboo canes without involving S&M, though.

 

[Cavum]

I don't know what you think you knew about me before that makes this disappointing to you, but ok 😎

The truth is, tickling isn't part of S&M. You can incorporate it into S&M, but it's not automatically that. People tickle other people without involving S&M all the time. People rarely whip other people with bamboo canes without involving S&M, though.

Of course I know that, but I just get the feeling that you think SM is just spanking and pain. That was my point 😛


But I agree on one thing...tickling is much more fun without safewords

 

[TickledToDeath]

I have never claimed to not be wussy.

I have however proven myself to be an escape artist.

That you have and better bondage will be in order next time you are placed in a ticklish situation/position.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

OK, here's my final word on why I like safewords...

 

[TMF Jeff]

very cute Ann 🙂

On a more serious note, a friend of mine recently told me a story that relates to this. He and his friend had tied up his girlfriend and were tickling her pretty intensely. Soon she was laughing so hard that her wits abandoned her, and she forgot what the safeword was. So for a couple of minutes, she was being tickled past her endurance and couldn't find the right words to make the play end.

So, first of all, her safeword didn't do her much good, and second of all, if she hadn't had this magic word that she needed to remember, she might have had a better chance at communicating what she truly needed.

By the way, she was just fine afterwords, safeword or no.

 

[BellaRisa]

The truth is, tickling isn't part of S&M. You can incorporate it into S&M, but it's not automatically that. People tickle other people without involving S&M all the time. People rarely whip other people with bamboo canes without involving S&M, though.

Y'know, from what I can tell, nothing is automatically S/M. Sometimes I think S/M ain't S/M if you ask the right people...every single adult group I belong to has members who say that what they do isn't part of S/M. The fact that they're doing it at an S/M party after taking S/M workshops on the subject is totally irrelevant 🙄 (and yes that includes tickling since there's workshops these days...). Even people whipping each other with canes will tell you that it's not S/M, they just like the sensation and they're no different than folks who like rolfing or other intense massage. Many spanking people, tickling people, and serious flagellation enthusiasts all share this point of view, especially if they don't feel that there's any true sadism or masochism or power exchange going on; just two people having rather intense fun. And while I shake my head a little at a guy with single-tail marks who insists he's not an S/Mmer, I can actually kinda see what he's saying...it depends on your personal attitude while you're playing. If I'm giving someone that control over my body and it's reactions it's S/M, period. But that's just me.

I've been following this thread, and there have been some very good points on both sides. Bottom line for me is that as long as the 'lee has the ability to do something that the top will recognize that stops the play, a safeword exists no matter how much those involved feel it doesn't. Someone who really and truly needs the play to stop, who will *not* be just fine afterward if you keep going, will let you know instead of continuing to laugh. There's no difference to me between "red" and "ow fuck STOP" except that the former has been predetermined by several adult communities, of which occasionally other communities need to deny being part for various reasons. And for every story of some 'lee who was better off in the long run without a contrived safeword, there's a story of one who was incredibly grateful to have hers for either physical or emotional reasons. And everyone here would stop if the 'lee truly needed them to and communicated that, which is all that matters.

Bella

 

[siamese dream]

man, reading this made me realize how long it's been since I've done something kinky enough to where I'd be using a safeword 😀 not that I get no tickling action, but yeah.... it's been a while for the full-on tied up torture session. Maybe why I have a very active fantasy imagination 😉

the first time I met someone off the internet for tickling (I've only done it twice), I was only 19 and he was in his early 40s... we used a safeword, which I used I think three different times while he was tickling me... I think it dissapointed him that I used it at all. It wasn't really because he was tickling me too much or I couldn't handle it... he was very good actually, and I really liked it. It was more because I was uncomfortable about how sexually intense things were getting between us. We had talked a lot about this meeting and what we each wanted/expected beforehand, and I had been very clear that while tickling is a turn-on for me, I wasn't interested in sex and wasn't comfortable with the idea of having sex with someone I had just met. Which might sound weird for someone who wanted to be tied up and tickled by someone I had just met, but that's how I felt 😉 He agreed and promised that it wouldn't go further than tickling. Well, once I was tied up and we were in the middle of things, that sort of went out the window and it became very obvious that he was aroused, and he ended up asking me a few times to have sex or to get him off some other way. I think me using the safeword was more about me being weirded out by the whole situation than not being able to handle the tickling, so I'm glad that we had used one and that he respected it.

I think safewords are a good idea if you're going to do something like this with someone you might not know very well or completely trust. If it's someone that knows you well and knows when you've had enough without a safeword, I don't see any reason to use one.

 

[BellaRisa]

Yet more Hmmm.....

I have a question for the 'Lers here that dislike safewords, since I know a few of you and and you know that I trust you completely:

Say you and I were playing. No safeword established, plenty of talk beforehand of where we both want things to go, etc. But due to having had two big-headed babies squeeze past my bladder over the last decade, I suddenly really needed to be released for, well, release... 🙄 despite precautions against that taken earlier. How would I communicate that to you? And how would that means of communication differ from a safeword in your eyes?

I'm honestly asking because I think we're actually on the same page...

Bella

 

[TMF Jeff]

Speaking only for myself, you would say it, and I would almost certainly agree that that was a perfectly good reason to stop.

 

[Mitchell]

Jeff, after reading this entire thread carefully, and the variety of responses, I am inclined to agree with your original point, of a safeword not being needed, to see signs, that tickling has to stop, either through physical signs, or something else the lee says or does.
To me, while I understand the concept of "safeword", it doesnt seem like that should be the only protocol for tickling to cease. As I read the thread, I kept thinking to myself:" Hmm, what would happen if I was the lee, (As I am a switch , both ler and lee), and the girl was giving me an unmerciful tickle, and, I either forgot my safeword, which I'm sure can happen in circumstances where one's brain might freeze up, or, perhaps, I was laughing so hard, and so hysterically, and all my brain was thinking about was the tickling, where I couldnt get the safeword out. You make an excellent point. The girl keeps tickling me, and, I'm gasping for air, and she goes:" Nope, Mitch, tickling continues, because you didnt shout your safeword." Granted, it would seem that most lers who saw signs of serious physical diress, would heed the warning signs, and stop on their own, but, you would also think that in that circumstance, a safeword shouldnt be needed, to see, that the ticklee either has to rest, or the tickling has to cease, at least for the time being.
Do I understand why tickling partners use safewords? Absolutely, and Myriads post makes an excellent point about that. Are they, or should they be necessary, if all other signs are there, from the lee's reaction, that tickling has to stop? No, they really shouldnt be, so, I do agree with you, that they arent really "necessary" if other physical signs are there.
Very interesting discussion, and a good spectrum of replies.

Mitch
One other point I wanted to make, from my ler side. I am certain that if I was tickling a girl, and, even if we had established a "safeword". If I was giving her a good tickling, and saw that there were physical signs there, where she was really in diress, I would very likely stop, even if she didnt shout her "safeword", for reasons of physical safety.

 

[siamese dream]

Mitchell, after reading how you put it, I can see what you mean... if I were in a situation like that, I would hope the ler would be able to take the signs that I needed a break and give me one, even without saying a safeword.

It is kind of a complicated subject and really just depends on who's involved... there are so many varying degrees of what people enjoy, and their reasons for liking tickling, some want to 'test their limits' or push them to the brink, others aren't so interested in it on the level of sadism/masochism and that sort of thing. I had an interesting conversation with a guy in the chat room a while ago about this... he had said that his ultimate fantasy was to be tickled by a female ler with no mercy and no safeword, until he was beyond being able to take it any more, and was broken... somehow the conversation eventually turned to love and relationships. I told him how tickling is a big part of affection, sexual attraction and flirtation for me, and that it's important to me as a form of affection, even though I do enjoy and can see the appeal of the sadism/masochism involved... and he told me something I found really interesting. He said he wouldn't necessarily want a girlfriend to tickle him, and that if he had the choice between being tickled by someone who loved him or someone who hated him, he would choose the person who hated him, because someone who loved him would not be unmerciful. That really made me think about how much the fantasy differs from person to person, and how tickling is really tied in with relationships for some people, while for others it's more of an endurance and pure fantasy thing, and they might not care if the person they act out their fantasies with is someone they care about or even know very well at all.

 

[LeeAllure]

I agree with what Jeff said, and then, more of what was going on
before you were released.

I've been asked a lot of times about tickling someone 'til they pee,
and I'm pretty sure that's something I'm not interested in, unless
they were wearing a diaper, and that's something I'm definitely not
interested in!

Lee

 

[BellaRisa]

I agree with what Jeff said, and then, more of what was going on before you were released.

Speaking only for myself, you would say it, and I would almost certainly agree that that was a perfectly good reason to stop.

The 'almost' leaves me a tad unsettled 😎 . But I digress: were I so sufficiently bereft of breath and presence of mind, as I often am during a darn fine session, that I could only utter monosyllables and my brain chose 'red' instead of 'stop' or 'pee' (a word I find distasteful on a base level) what difference would that make to you as a 'ler?


And let me add something that occured to me earlier. I suspect that the reason I prefer a word such as 'red' is that it's really not something one would say otherwise, at least not in this context. I understand if this doesn't make sense to others, but 'stop' or 'pee' (ew) or even 'fucking OW' are so...pedestrian. Vanilla. Mundane. And other beige colored adjectives. A word that's purposely made part of the session feels better, somehow. More appropriate. Again, I acknowledge that this may only make sense to me 😱

The one and only time I've ever used a safeword with my 'Ler/Spanker of 7 yrs is when the situation I describe above came about. It did nothing to harm the mood of the scene, and play definitely resumed once things were dealt with .

Bella

 

[TickledToDeath]

In my opinion, you used your safeword wisely and was right in having one given the situration that "arose" or had "arisen" 😱

😛oke3:

 

[Merciless1]

No. 😛

 

[Mitchell]

Siamese, thank you, I tried to think my post out carefully, and, I am glad you agree with what I said. Also, after thinking about this subject further, another important issue came to mind.
To me, this whole thread makes even more sense, for this reason: Needing to use a safeword for tickling to stop, is, to me, locking oneself into a rule, that doesnt always apply. For example, in tickling itself, depending on mood, I am certain that some nights where a ler or lee would be able to tickle, or be tickled for two hours, and other nights tire in fifteen minutes. The mandatory use of a safeword is, to me, saying:" Every single time, until you, the lee, scream this safeword, you are going to be tickled unmercifully, even if you cant breathe". Engaging in tickling the other way, with watching for, and using physical signs, is, in my opinion, protection for not only the lee's emotional and physical safety, but also for the ler as well, where, after the session is over, the lee would feel their rights were respected, and that the ler saw the signs to stop, before going over the line. I think it can tend to avoid angry, and feelings of perhaps going too far, and feelings of violation, from the lee toward the ler. Respecting rights in a situation like this is paramount, especially when someone willingly submits themself, to be tickled unmercifully by someone, an action that many who arent into this, can well despise, and feel is torture.
So, for these reasons, looking for physical signs, and not using safewords as the sole criteria, to stop, makes perfect sense to me.

Mitch

 

[BellaRisa]

In my opinion, you used your safeword wisely and was right in having one given the situration that "arose" or had "arisen" 😱

😛oke3:

Thank you. And in re-reading the thread, I'm seeing that the reason many folks dislike a contrived safeword is that the 'lee may chicken out and use it when they really didn't have to, cheating both players out of the level of intensity they could have achieved. That's very true, and I've had it happen to me as a 'ler. It's annoying and frustrating and you do find yourself thinking how great it could have been sans chickening. But that happens without an official safeword too, I've seen it; a panicking 'lee can become deadly serious when they're afraid of freaking out or losing too much control, and insist on an end to the play so firmly that you would be an untrustworthy 'ler not to stop. And this wasn't a newbie, it was an experienced 'lee who was trying for more limit-pushing and wasn't as emotionally ready as she thought she was. In that situation you both need to reevaluate what he/she can handle for now and go from there, which is what they did, but what word or signal brought the play to an end doesn't really make a difference, at least none that I can see

Bella