bad blood main event

[The Sean Man]

There was girl that worked here at the station many years ago, before moving on to advertising work elsewhere. I bumped into her, and she proceeded to tell me about how she's been taking martial arts for a couple of years.

I can't describe the absolute glee on her face as she told me that yesterday she made a guy twice her size tap out.

The Sean Man

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I just think the legitmacy of the ring itself is often called into question. They do things with it that were never done before (ie- having it 'rise and skake' for the Undertaker).

It would seem the ring symbolizes where it all goes down. Where history is made, etc. One man even calls it his 'yard'. So for such a key part of wrestling to buckle and collapse under the weight of one move kind of makes you wonder. Obviously it was intended to be seen as such a powerful move, and with all the weight involved that it would collapse the ring. But if it wouldn't have, then what?

The collapsing of the ring was just a gimmick to end the match in a 'no contest', right? If they will go that far just for that, you kind of wonder what crazy thing they will do with the squared circle next.

 

[The Sean Man]

The ring in question was rigged, but in the wrestling context of Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar, it really added dramatically to the match. Never would have worked, though, for Brooklyn Brawler vs. The Red Rooster🙂


The Sean Man

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yeah, thats true. But I don't know if it would be the same if it ever happened again. Its sort of one of those one time deals. Its the ultimate that could ever happen to the ring. And as you implied, the force behind it wouldn't be as convincing with smaller people.

If it was Gonzales and Taker, now that would have been cool. 😀

 

[The Sean Man]

Didn't Undertaker or Kane at one time choke slam somebody through the mats? (No doubt to a screaming Jim Ross, "MY GOD!!!!")

BigJim, do you know?

The Sean Man

 

[BigJim]

Wight once did that to Calloway.

 

[The Sean Man]

Yup, that was it


The Sean Man

 

[Deleted member 2452]

a note about big show

he is not as slow, and clumsy as many of you eroneously think.
he was told to PLAY the part, to stay in the wwf/wwe. when he first came up he was destorying people in seconds. he was sent to the minors of wrestling by vince to learn a little humility, and to learn to do what he's told. when he came back a little poorer, and a lot humbler, he was the big show you see today.

on another note. i'll lay my money on a good big guy over a good little guy any day! who you boys have been watching fight is beyond me, but i have seen too much "real life" and the big guys always win!

steve

 

[The Sean Man]

The challenge has been made...let's book the card. Anybody got any input?

The Sean Man

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ Steve- I was explaining that earlier, and how Big Show is faster than he seems. He's actually got some pretty cool moves.

@ everyone else-

As far as the collapsing ring, well, its all fun and games until a piece breaks off and impales someone in the audiance. 😛

 

[The Sean Man]

As far as the collapsing ring, well, its all fun and games until a piece breaks off and impales someone in the audiance. 😛

Don't give Vince any ideas......😀

The Sean Man

 

[BigJim]

Re: a note about big show

on another note. i'll lay my money on a good big guy over a good little guy any day! who you boys have been watching fight is beyond me, but i have seen too much "real life" and the big guys always win!

steve

Fair enough Steve. Who'd do you think would win out of you and me? You're five foot something, I'm 6'3 and 240. I'm pretty sure nonetheless that without my can of CS and extendable baton that you'd win a street fight.

 

[BigJim]

Re: a note about big show

he is not as slow, and clumsy as many of you eroneously think.
he was told to PLAY the part, to stay in the wwf/wwe. when he first came up he was destorying people in seconds. he was sent to the minors of wrestling by vince to learn a little humility, and to learn to do what he's told. when he came back a little poorer, and a lot humbler, he was the big show you see today.

Ah well, I never saw him in WCW of course. That would explain it.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Don't give Vince any ideas......😀

The Sean Man

Yeah, tell me about it. Vince sure does have a knack for turning lawsuits into money makers. 😀

 

[BigJim]

*for sale: genuine plaster cast of Bret Hart's fist taken from Vince McMahon's jaw and plaster cast of British Bulldog's forearm taken from Shane McMahon's throat---No time wasters please...*


Jim - Who now needs a crowbar to get his tongue out of his cheek.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Another question if I may. What ever happened to that Zack Gowen kid? The one legged boy? Remember?

Or was he just there so the WWE, particularly Vincent Kennedy McMahon, could say that the WWE loves handicaps and supports them?

 

[BigJim]

Never heard of him. If he's recent, I wouldn't have as I've seriously lost interest in wrestling due to the ridiculously short title reigns, guys swapping from heel to face then back again within two days and the fact that Vince McMahon is still breathing.

Mutha-fucker. 😡

Any more? 😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well to give you the skinny he appeared at the time the 'Mr. America' thing with Hogan and Piper was going on. Piper was beating up Mr. America and all of a sudden this boy jumped the baracade, went into the ring and tried to help Hogan (who was masarading as Mr. America) and Piper turned his attention to the boy, pushed down, grabbed his leg and off it went. It was of course a shock and shame to Piper, but its not like it was his fault. How was he to know this boy would do this and that he had a prosthetic leg, at that?

Anyways, it turns out this boy, Zack Gowen, had always been a fan of wrestling and his favorite wreslers was Hulk Hogan. He also always had a dream of being a professional wrestler. So it was arranged for him to have a try-out match to earn a contract. Through several screw job by Vince, the kid failed until finally (with the aid of Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar) he won a particular match against the Big Show, earning his is WWE contract.

For about several months the kid was hailed as a handicap who overcame adversity, cancer, etc. etc. He had some pretty important matches, but that was it. After a while he just vanished.

And I was wondering whether or not that was all just a ploy to make the WWE look good and save face. Or maybe it was that and they also legimately wanted to give this kid is dream even if only for a little while. Afterall, no one just jumps in the ring unless it's planned.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

And I do have a question.

Has it ever happened when a wrestler goes against the wishes of the boss and the script? For example, a champion that doesn't want to drop his belt, or a challenger that refuses to lose.

While the obvious answers could be firing them, giving them a pay cut, or suspending them, are there any countermeasures the business uses to keep these wrestlers that decide to go maverick from ruining everything? What if the entire plot boiled down to something and a wrestler refuses to go along with it and theres no time to re-write the script because its happening live, or much worse, at a PPV event?

IE- The wrestler is supposed to be pinned, 1-2-3, but intentionally kicks out before three, totally changing everything. What is the other wrestler(s) to do? What about the ref?

How are these issues dealt with?

 

[Shem the Penman]

Zach Gowen was let go because there really wasn't much they could do with him other than put him out there and say, "Hey, look at the one-legged guy who can wrestle!" He was a novelty, and novelties eventually run out.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yeah, a novelty.

 

[BigJim]

Afterall, no one just jumps in the ring unless it's planned.

I've actually seen that happen when the British Bulldog and Owen Hart were a team. A guy tried to get in the ring and the Bulldog nearly strangle him. Within two seconds of that, about 15 security guys were swarming all over him. Also, if Piper had got the guy down, the last thing he'd try and do to a member of the public is put a wrestling hold on him. Smother him and keep him down, yes. But not grab his leg. Sounds like a storyline to me, on first hearing.

 

[BigJim]

And I do have a question.

Has it ever happened when a wrestler goes against the wishes of the boss and the script? For example, a champion that doesn't want to drop his belt, or a challenger that refuses to lose.

While the obvious answers could be firing them, giving them a pay cut, or suspending them, are there any countermeasures the business uses to keep these wrestlers that decide to go maverick from ruining everything? What if the entire plot boiled down to something and a wrestler refuses to go along with it and theres no time to re-write the script because its happening live, or much worse, at a PPV event?

IE- The wrestler is supposed to be pinned, 1-2-3, but intentionally kicks out before three, totally changing everything. What is the other wrestler(s) to do? What about the ref?

How are these issues dealt with?

Paul Roma did that once. For some reason he went into the ring with a shitty-on one night. He was no-selling all the other guy's moves and even kicked out of his finisher. The ref ignored that and registered the three count anyway. As to what happened to him, Paul Roma never worked again.

Also, Shawn Michaels baulked at something to do with the storyline shortly after he took the WWF title back off Sycho Sid, in Houston. That resulted in him forfeitting the title and allegedly going into rehab for an injured knee.

Generally it's in a wrestler's best interest to not fuck his boss about too much. They're allowed input of course (in Levesque's case, too much in my opinion), but they generally end up screwed for a job if word gets round that they're unreliable to a storyline.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Makes sense. But how would it be explained to the fans and audiance that a champion that won his match (remember, we don't know who was supposed to win), and retains his title, only to have it stripped of him later by a GM or by Vince himself? How do they maintain a legitimacy in their pretexts for removing a belt or when someone wins when they aren't supposed to? And what if the other wrestler just says 'to hell with this, I'm supposed to win and you're not letting me', and he just walks out?

What kind of a story do you cook up for something like that? While for a person that walks out you simply could say he was a coward or something and the match is a forfeit, how is the person 'breaking the agreement' so to speak, being legitimately punished in public view?

To us this person will look as if he won fairly, when really, he's the bad guy that should be punished. It isn't fair that the person who was trying to do their job ends up getting all the heat initially in this example.

In Vince's case, or whomever is responsible, how does the script repair the damage the one wrestler caused? Because now they not only have to deal with a wrestler not following the script and make up a story for that, but they have to deal with the aftertaste of the 'loser' who was actually the winner, but couldn't win because the other guy didn't let him and make up a story for that as well. How do you create a realistic scenario to bounce back from something like this? In your example you were talking about an injury that didn't exist.

Or are you saying any lame excuse will do? For the sake of reputableness, I'd like to think some thought is put into it before they find the easiest way out.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

And that was a story line with Zach, by the way. It sort of played into the Mr. America story line and created sort of an arc so that Piper could pursue Hogan further and prove that Mr. America was in fact Hulk Hogan. Vince ended up proving it, and thats supposedly why Hogan isn't there anymore. While of course, we know the real reasons.