venray said:
You dont even know what the "idea" really is, so no it isnt time to squash others in their pursuits of a better life...it never is...Just inform yourself when the time comes and make a decision that is best for you and dont try to scare people off because of your own doubts....
Well, I think he drew his judgements from the descriptions on the thread, which were on their way to becoming detailed with "circles" and "rings" of rank, and seemed fairly widely accepted, and with respect, bare little apparent resemblance to what you propose, above. And I do believe he is acting in what he views as the greater interests of the community, viewing alterations or challenges to what we have already as potentially dangerous, and any suggestion of submitting ones will to a leader with centralized power as evermore so. And finally, I can understand well enough why he'd be concerned, though I might be a bit more tempered in my assessment stemming from the fact that this was a re-animated, months-long-defunct thread, from which little of substance emerged, or at least little of substance beyond talk and planning is
evident (much like when I mentioned the "clubs" my sister and I tried to form when we were kids, when I first jumped onto this topic actually on the "Tickling Cult Update" thread.).
venray said:
Persecuting others for their beliefs and putting others down for having ideas has not gotten us to a very happy place in today's world.....Some of us believe it is time for a change and what better place to start then right here among friends and those we have grown to trust and, yes...LOVE....Wow....what a concept....(Dont let it grow!!!!Kill it now!!!)
LOL
I wonder if this difference of opinion breaks down according to age -- The Woodstock Generation vs. The Waco Generation... Could explain alot in terms of perception and optimism vs. pessimism toward the idea...
And as much as I appreciate whatever levity can be interjected to this conversation, I think skewering ones opponent's views through humorous, hyperbolic restatement of them: "...trust and, yes...LOVE....Wow....what a concept....(Dont let it grow!!!!Kill it now!!!)" (a very popular and effective means of debate, mind you) may overlook the fact that he has genuine concerns and glosses over the fact that he displays a better understanding of the matter as presented in the "Tickling Cult Update" thread than such statements suggest.
And while I don't think what has been proposed thus far in said thread possesses all the qualities of a cult (so, explicit "brainwashing" aside), it would be hard to deny there is potential for negative repercussions of all sorts when a charismatic leader seeks ways to centralize power through the structures described in the thread, which are far from the description of the envisioned egalitarian "commune" you suggest.
Also, issues of "choice" (however much participants in this discussion may request that it boils down to simple choice) also come into question as there are methods of control and persuasion involved in cults (prerequisite: Charismatic Leader) from recruitment through the life and length of the cult that operate in ways that supersede most rational choice among those with little knowledge of cult procedure.
Now is this all a semantics issue over the use of the term "cult"? Boy, I hope so. But as mentioned above, and regardless of the term chosen, there's a wide difference, I think, from what you're describing now, Venray, and what Shadow was reading about in the thread. "Press release version" suggestions aside, I think you might admit there's a distinct difference from what you describe here and what was described there.
The nice thing about all of this is that it demonstrates for both sides (if the matter can be sliced so simply) a passion and a real dedication to the well-being of this community, and underscores just how much it is valued by all.
😀 Yay, us!
Finally, earlier, I had said:
Capnmad said:
Indeed, if the pressure against such a thing got too high, given the sense of humor of its orchestrators, it could be declared all a great joke, making detractors and participants alike look a bit foolish or just foolishly optimistic, and that would be it. No harm done. In fact, until something more material evolves, it may as well be that.
In a later post, Rob added:
Robace252 said:
This is just WAY TOO FUNNY!!!
Rob
PS..does anyone remember this.....
LMAO!!!
P-PS...Its really really funny
Rob
It's not a specific declaration of the whole concept as a joke, but a mere suggestion of it, I'm guessing, which nonetheless, demonstrates the ease with which this whole thing can be dismissed... ...at least by one side, if not the other. Thank you for helping illustrate my point.
😀
