Bullying

[Marquis De Sade]

Totally agree with the OP. I personally feel that there are life lessons to be learned in the battlefield that is the playground and there is a certain danger (perhaps "danger" is too strong a word, but it's the first that came to mind), in handling the matter in some sort of paper form.

I was one of many targets of a school bully in my grade school and it seemed as if the teachers either didn't care, didn't believe us or didn't listen. Not sure about the other kids but I never told my parents. During one particular violent incident involving my being choked, instinct suggested in that moment that I react to violence with more violence. Enough to neutralize the threat but not too much that I get in trouble for it. I was never touched again and learned a LOT all from those few seconds about respect, the politics of the schoolyard, the importance of reputations, how words can hurt more than physical violence, and how to get all the girls to want to give you their phone numbers.

Lessons I carry with me and use to this day and probably wouldn't ever have learned or more importantly, understood, had it all been dealt with in the form of a stupid fine because nothing beats personal experience and having to live with the consequences, good or bad, of your own choices.

This happened after the age where whatever my parents had taught me as a small child about morals, the differences between right and wrong, etc. were embedded deep within my psyche however. If they hadn't taught me all that, goodness knows what might've become of that boy's skull.

So, yeah. Fines = Stoopid. Parents = Important. Bullies = Beat them to dust.

😀

 

[socktickler86]

Based on the surrounding parts of your post, I imagine you mean you don't think kids *can* intellectualize...blah blah blah, and I disagree completely.

Yes, excellent typo on my part, but I fixed it. I don't think we have the same idea of what it means to intellectualize something. Maybe I should clarify it to the extent that you understand why people can't do something and the ramifications of it for when grown ups do such things.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, as I've literally never heard of this being done. The closest thing I can relate to it is in many schools now, if someone starts trying to "beat you up" you can defend your body from harm, but cannot go on the offensive and go apeshit crazy right back. If you do go on an offensive, you will also be on a trouble list. Is this what you're referring to?

I suspect this is one of these things that happen in California that make no sense to people in any other state.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

<object width="560" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L54bxmZy_NE?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L54bxmZy_NE?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

OMG!

"Another animal that can go blow itself is the world famous Bird of Paradise. Take this flaming queer for instance. Who the fuck does he think he is? This ugly looking bird is drunk, and appears to be saying 'Oh no you didn't.' On a comical note I later ate this bird thinking it was a piece of fruit. It was delicious, and I spent the afternoon looking for seconds. Here, an extremely racist bird performs a minstrel show. It's not my thing, but apparently this other shithead thinks it's hilarious.

 

[Marquis De Sade]

...

 

[Sandrock74]

I was bullied a lot in school when I was a kid. I usually had my head buried in a comicbook or was drawing something. I kept to myself and didn't care to cause any waves. That seemed to somehow make bullies feel invited to bother me. I would always try the whole "ignore it" thing, but we all know that doesn't work for shit. I repeatedly went to teachers and they did nothing. (maybe the 80's was a different time, more bully friendly?)

One day, in 8th grade, my patience had reached its limit. One idiot literally jumped on my back as just I walked by, so I turned around and jacked him so hard in the face that I knocked him out. In front of the class.

Needless to say no one bothered me anymore.

1st-8th grade taught me only one thing: you need to beat a bullys ass unconscious to be safe from bullying. Any wonder why I think school is a joke?

 

[grandizer]

As far as the tell an adult/fight it out debate, I have mixed feelings. I've seen both ways work and I've seen both ways fail, but I don't think either answer is really the solution. The solution is that parents need to learn to give a damn. Instill some values in your children that teach them that bullying someone is wrong, and when some of them go out there and it anyway, hand out some serious consequences. Unfortunately the world is always going to have shitty, lazy, careless parents, so kids are going to be putting up with bullies forever.

Also, I don't know much about martial arts, but everything that I do know indicates that martial arts aren't meant to teach someone to kick ass. They're meant to teach someone discipline, respect, and self-defense (not the same as kicking ass) as a last resort. If I sent my kid in to a martial arts class I certainly would not be expecting the instructor to teach them how to put a bully in their place. Then again, I wouldn't take my kid to a martial arts class for that reason, either. To each his own, I guess.

In martial arts we learn to defend. Defend only. If someone attacks you with a knife I don't think big words are going to cut it. Parents bring their kids to martial arts so that they build confidence in themselves and they can defend themselves. It is never used to start fights. It goes against the code.

So no they don't learn to just kick ass. And yes they learn to kick someone's ass. When they need to. Some parent's just want thieir kids to be safe. You can't always protect them from the world. You can give them all the help they need and hope that it's enough.

 

[Amnesiac]

I used to agree with grandizer, but the latest trends these days make me think otherwise.

In the old days (which I can still remember) the bullying used to be a sign of two things: posturing or genuine predation. The posers might have had the strength, build, and image, but if they were defeated they no longer had the power to regain their image and left the kid alone. If you can convince the school you're a bad ass with only a few fights, that reputation does more work than your fists, and if that reputation is shattered, it can never be restored.

Poser.

THAT's the kind of bullying that fighting usually resolves.

The genuine predation is far more dangerous. These were the kids who typically came from the abusive and alcoholic homes and they'd been so hardened by their environments that they didn't fear consequences. A poser always cracked when faced with real trouble like jail, but these guys were just as at home in prison as they were outside: what was prison but another jungle they already knew how to live in?

NOT a poser.

Unlike the poser who intimidates people for the entertainment and the ego boost, the predator does it simply because he can; he sees himself as the alpha, so why shouldn't he be entitled to do as he pleases? And when that dominance was challenged, he wasn't afraid to break you (literally) to put you back in place. He doesn't give a fuck about ANYTHING.

Especially your face.

The harder the environment, the more this guy thrives; that's why these guys run the prisons: just like schools, the administration doesn't want to deal with these guys and they really don't want to waste the time and effort looking after your dumb ass every minute of every day.

"Dammit that's the fifth time today! He's on his own this time."

The poser is quickly dying out.

In his place is a mid-spectrum bully that has a much more pathological foundation for their actions. They NEED to dominate another person because their entire identity is wrapped up in that role. If the victim stands up and defeats the bully, the bully's self-image is shattered. And like anybody undergoing an identity crisis, there's a panicky need to restore that image at any cost, even if it means the victim has to pay exorbitantly. The victim doesn't matter to this bully; all that matters is restoring one's ense of self-worth.

This kind of bully won't take an ass whupping passively. They'll come back with friends and do the job together. And if somehow THAT doesn't work, then the bully will either change tactics to psychological harassment (assuming they have the sophistication) or escalate to even higher extremes to punish the victim for violating the relationship dynamic.

It's not dissimilar to a stalker turned violent. If the dynamic changes between the two, then the stalker will escalate their actions to the point of extreme, even homicidal violence in order to "put things right." There is some need this power position fills and when it's disturbed, the bully can't rest until it's restored. Otherwise the world doesn't make sense to them.

This is the kind of bully that is becoming more and more dominant. And an ass-whupping might not help because the point of the bullying isn't to get a thrill or indulge sociopathic appetites, it's the exercise of power to establish order and meaning in their personal worldview. The victim MUST be the victim no matter what, and violent resistance is only an indication that the stakes must be raised.

I agree that victims have to stand up for themselves and bullies must be stopped, but the old model for bullying is fading away and is being replaced by a type of bullying that is more emotionally unstable and fanatically committed...and a fistfight might no longer help.

 

[grandizer]

<object width="560" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hruYt_M5rsE?version=3&hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hruYt_M5rsE?version=3&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

I thought I didn't know I felt on this issue, but then again, I feel nothing but satisfaction and justice watching this so.... I guess that shows my true colours.

This is not an animal kingdom thing or a two males showing off. If everyone will look the one kid tried to step back and play it off. The one in the hat wouldn't let him. HE HAD NO CHOICE!!!!!! HE HAD TO FIGHT!!!!

And if he tried to go tell I'm sure the bully would have chased him and hit him some more. I don't think big words or reason or turning the other cheek would have worked. The one kid already got hit once with no response.

The law states that you have the right to defend yourself.

 

[grandizer]

Amnesiac is right. The good ole days are gone.

 

[grandizer]

Whenever I see wee little man-peanuts trying to obviously engage and threatened someone who could curb-stomp them with a big toe, I immediately think of nature shows when they discuss how males get female attention and mark their territory. Full, gloriously colored plumage, strutting around the mating ground.

This is true. Like the guy that drives the super duty,extended cab, four wheel drive, transorming, monster truck, can pull anything truck.

Trying to make up for something? hmmmmm.

 

[LD_Tickler]

1st-8th grade taught me only one thing: you need to beat a bullys ass unconscious to be safe from bullying.

Ever read Ender's Game? It's a totally awesome sci-fi novel. The young protagonist reaches the same conclusion early in the story.

 

[BlackestLily]

This is true. Like the guy that drives the super duty,extended cab, four wheel drive, transorming, monster truck, can pull anything truck.

Trying to make up for something? hmmmmm.

LOL I always think that when I see trucks drive through town that have wheels the size of my car, with giant diesel pipes sticking out of the bed. Usually that's also accompanied by the confederate flag pasted into the back window, though you could substitute a graphic of Calvin peeing on something they hate and it would work just as well.

 

[grandizer]

LOL I always think that when I see trucks drive through town that have wheels the size of my car, with giant diesel pipes sticking out of the bed. Usually that's also accompanied by the confederate flag pasted into the back window, though you could substitute a graphic of Calvin peeing on something they hate and it would work just as well.

Ah yes! The ole confederate flag. This completes the ensemble.

 

[LD_Tickler]

http://automaticlifestyledispenser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/calvin_confederate.gif

I literally simply googled "Calvin peeing on the confederate flag."

 

[BlackestLily]

http://automaticlifestyledispenser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/calvin_confederate.gif

I literally simply googled "Calvin peeing on the confederate flag."

My god...there truly is not one thing Calvin can't pee on.

 

[grandizer]

They should have calvin peeing on calvin klein.