Can we get a subforum for AI work?

[Quiggy]

Just what the title says so that those who want to see more traditional art can and those who want to see AI art have a dedicated place.

 

[tmcp]

I second this. When i come to the artwork section its been overwhelming with the AI stuff. It would be nice to separate the two. I personally dont think they are in the same category.

 

[Myrmidon]

I strongly second this as well.

 

[BlueLine7045]

I mentioned that I was going to message the mods/admins about this in another post, but I was a lazy piece of garbage and never did it.

So thank you for creating this. Nothing personal against people who wish to generate AI art (not a fan of the term, "AI ARTIST" since the machine is creating the art) but yeah. AI art is mucking up the tickling art section in my opinion, and with advances in AI technology and software, its getting harder to identify what is and is not AI art. It's gotten to the point now where I have just started avoiding the tickling art section altogether as I don't feel like dealing with the multitude of AI posts. As fast as human artists can work, AI can generate 10x faster. For every one piece of art created by a human, AI can generate 10 to 20 pieces in multiple varying styles. It's insanity.

I have called a few people out on here asking them to identify their AI art in the title, but many more continue to forget. For those of us who don't like or believe in AI-generated art and would rather just avoid it altogether, this makes it that much harder to do.

So yes, I believe a sub-forum for any and all things AI should be created. Again, not trying to sound like a jerk, but with AI's continued growth and domination over our future to the point where it is beginning to beat out and push out humans both in work and the creativity fields, I think it is important for us to take a stand and segregate or distinguish between human and AI whenever possible.

Hopefully all of you are on the human side.

 

[Kindred]

So before I commit to sides, how do you feel about 3D art using a computer and a program like Daz?

 

[TMF Jeff]

I'm giving this some thought - I don't know what the long term impact of this would be. Are AI people going to feel like they're being put into a "not a real artist' secondary location? Some AI is very generic and not particularly interesting, but some of it is among the most compelling tickling content I've ever seen. And I want to welcome it, encourage it, and treat it like the important part of the future of tickling media that it clearly is.

I know some people dislike it, and I respect their point of view. But it's here to stay and I don't want to accidentally make the TMF a place that is passively hostile to that, by making it seem like something we don't respect or appreciate.

 

[Quiggy]

I wasnt trying to make a division, merely thought there was enough of it to warrant its own section. Its all art, it should belong in the art forum, but could be a subforum within the art forum because its big enough it will have a lot of traffic.

 

[BlueLine7045]

So before I commit to sides, how do you feel about 3D art using a computer and a program like Daz?

It depends on how much human interaction there is. A lot of artists use 3D modeling or computer sketch pads or whatever to create and fix art. I follow several of these artists.

EDIT: I wasn't familiar with what Daz is, but I looked it up and it seems like they offer pre-generated models, objects, etc. for artists to work with. But you still have to take those models and objects and use some creativity to create something out of it. Its not just typing into a generator and sitting back while the AI draws and colors an image for you.

AI is entirely different. AI art is created entirely by a machine. Not even really created per say because that would imply its from scratch and the AI's imagination which it lacks. Rather it generates an image based off of thousands and thousands of images and content on the internet. AI is simply machine learning. A machine learns by absorbing other people's content and then repressing it for its own "creations".

So now you have humans coming in and basically typing out or telling one of these AI machine learning programs what to create. "Create an image of Kim Possible being tickled while hogtied and barefoot. Make her laughing with tears streaming down her face, etc. Etc." You get it. I don't personally consider that art. Literally anyone can do that. Now some people that refer to themselves as AI artists are able to get these machines to generate much better images than others, but at the end of the day, they are really not doing any artistry of their own.

Now I have heard of some artists creating art and having AI touch it up or something like that. My feelings are mixed on that. But as far as AI image generation goes, I don't consider it art and those who do it should not be allowed to call themselves artists. Like I said, AI generators can easily pop out 20 to 30 images an hour. A good artist is lucky to pop out a few images a week. I know because I am subscribed to a couple people on Patreon and they release content once a week whereas AI people are releasing 20 to 30 images a day. Its BS in my opinion

 

[tmcp]

For me, art had a style , most of the ai stuff has none, just a type. For me, most of it looks the same. Yes there is effort involved, but its just not the same thing.

 

[odzadoro]

As someone who's been posting a lot of AI, I certainly am not offended or discouraged if they're separate categories.
I fully appreciate that playing with AI isn't the same as being an artist and some people want to have a forum for encouraging and celebrating the artists.
Just like we have separate spots for videos, photo images and other "art", I see no problem with segmenting off the AI-generated content.
But then again, it's additional work for someone who's managing all this. There are kind souls just doing all this sh!t for the rest of us...

 

[RubiW]

I think every AI image/video that is strictly prompt → result without any kind of manual work or post-processing should go into the existing AI thread. As someone who uses various AI tools on a daily basis, I consider stuff like this incredibly lazy and one of the main reasons why people have such an aversion for anything AI related.

People should only make individual threads for serious works that actually required some kind of effort (generating from your preexisting sketches; going through the image afterwards and retouching obvious AI mistakes; using AI only partially to generate assets for a photo collage because it's something very specific and you can't find a real photo reference; etc.)

 

[Luv2Tkl2]

I think this is a very good idea.

 

[TheSolemnOne]

I think every AI image/video that is strictly prompt → result without any kind of manual work or post-processing should go into the existing AI thread. As someone who uses various AI tools on a daily basis, I consider stuff like this incredibly lazy and one of the main reasons why people have such an aversion for anything AI related.

People should only make individual threads for serious works that actually required some kind of effort (generating from your preexisting sketches; going through the image afterwards and retouching obvious AI mistakes; using AI only partially to generate assets for a photo collage because it's something very specific and you can't find a real photo reference; etc.)

Agree with this. Nothing wrong with using AI to generate assets/images for larger compositions, but if it is just a prompt generated image/video it should go to a separate thread. Most of the prompt-only generations aren't good.

 

[TheSolemnOne]

So before I commit to sides, how do you feel about 3D art using a computer and a program like Daz?

Daz/poser style art takes skill and a ton time to get right. That art is not the same as AI generated stuff.

 

[TicklerKoops]

I'm giving this some thought - I don't know what the long term impact of this would be. Are AI people going to feel like they're being put into a "not a real artist' secondary location? Some AI is very generic and not particularly interesting, but some of it is among the most compelling tickling content I've ever seen. And I want to welcome it, encourage it, and treat it like the important part of the future of tickling media that it clearly is.

I know some people dislike it, and I respect their point of view. But it's here to stay and I don't want to accidentally make the TMF a place that is passively hostile to that, by making it seem like something we don't respect or appreciate.

To be frank, I like some AI, but I do find myself browsing the artist forum less because I know it's just a bunch of AI artwork, which I feel is unfair to people who actually have real art up for sale. It's inadvertently affecting people's income(if they are using this as part of their income) because I just don't like to come here to just be bombarded by AI posts.

 

[Nicklaos]

It depends on how much human interaction there is. A lot of artists use 3D modeling or computer sketch pads or whatever to create and fix art. I follow several of these artists.

EDIT: I wasn't familiar with what Daz is, but I looked it up and it seems like they offer pre-generated models, objects, etc. for artists to work with. But you still have to take those models and objects and use some creativity to create something out of it. Its not just typing into a generator and sitting back while the AI draws and colors an image for you.

AI is entirely different. AI art is created entirely by a machine. Not even really created per say because that would imply its from scratch and the AI's imagination which it lacks. Rather it generates an image based off of thousands and thousands of images and content on the internet. AI is simply machine learning. A machine learns by absorbing other people's content and then repressing it for its own "creations".

So now you have humans coming in and basically typing out or telling one of these AI machine learning programs what to create. "Create an image of Kim Possible being tickled while hogtied and barefoot. Make her laughing with tears streaming down her face, etc. Etc." You get it. I don't personally consider that art. Literally anyone can do that. Now some people that refer to themselves as AI artists are able to get these machines to generate much better images than others, but at the end of the day, they are really not doing any artistry of their own.

Now I have heard of some artists creating art and having AI touch it up or something like that. My feelings are mixed on that. But as far as AI image generation goes, I don't consider it art and those who do it should not be allowed to call themselves artists. Like I said, AI generators can easily pop out 20 to 30 images an hour. A good artist is lucky to pop out a few images a week. I know because I am subscribed to a couple people on Patreon and they release content once a week whereas AI people are releasing 20 to 30 images a day. Its BS in my opinion

AI trending IMHO is a direct consequence of how bad are softwares like DAZ and Poser from a accessibility and economical point of view,in short these softwares require an infinite amount of time spent in trials and errors because the whole process of getting to finally rendering what you want is a mess,plus there's the fact that they are like free to play games with heavy monetization,you get them free but if you want to have fun you must spend hundreds of dollars to get all the assets needed,the cherry on top is that you need a very good PC to render something good.
I spent the last 7 years working with DAZ and managing my Deviant Art page and I saw a lot of DAZ Studio users shift to AI,and I even tried myself at some point and I'll keep waiting for that to get better eventually,meanwhile I'll stick to DAZ Studio.
Regarding the AI imagines section I think it's due,the current phase of AI generated images is 99% sloppy stuff spammed,I even find that the megathread is unwatchable so would be nice let AI users have a section so they can make their personal threads and people know which ones are worth watching.
AI images can be good or bad depending on the effort,in these years I saw a lot of very bad tickling drawings or 3D renderings I'm seeing also very good artist that in the past years graced DA with incredible stuff becoming greedy and reducing their commissions to simple sketchs that cost 50$,so to me the rising in popularity of AI fetish images isn't a surprise and I know that eventually will take over if the censoring will be lifted.

 

[TMF Jeff]

I'm reading all of these posts, thank you all for giving your feedback. I don't like to rush into making changes on the forum because we're such a long-standing institution and people generally HATE change 🙂

 

[TicklerKoops]

I'm reading all of these posts, thank you all for giving your feedback. I don't like to rush into making changes on the forum because we're such a long-standing institution and people generally HATE change 🙂

You aren't wrong. I remember the shitstorm when the TMF first moved into a new forum layout. Everyone HATED it, but eventually realized how much of an upgrade it really was. The TMF desperately needed a facelift back then. We weren't in early 2000s anymore 😂

 

[feals]

I'm giving this some thought - I don't know what the long term impact of this would be. Are AI people going to feel like they're being put into a "not a real artist' secondary location? Some AI is very generic and not particularly interesting, but some of it is among the most compelling tickling content I've ever seen. And I want to welcome it, encourage it, and treat it like the important part of the future of tickling media that it clearly is.

I know some people dislike it, and I respect their point of view. But it's here to stay and I don't want to accidentally make the TMF a place that is passively hostile to that, by making it seem like something we don't respect or appreciate.

I think it's likely a small segment of the heavy ai users that would disagree that they are two distinct categories.
This isn't a perfect metaphor, but it's not like users are upset that True tickling stories and Fiction tickling stories are separate categories. It's a logical distinction.

 

[Kalamos]

I'm giving this some thought - I don't know what the long term impact of this would be. Are AI people going to feel like they're being put into a "not a real artist' secondary location? Some AI is very generic and not particularly interesting, but some of it is among the most compelling tickling content I've ever seen. And I want to welcome it, encourage it, and treat it like the important part of the future of tickling media that it clearly is.

I know some people dislike it, and I respect their point of view. But it's here to stay and I don't want to accidentally make the TMF a place that is passively hostile to that, by making it seem like something we don't respect or appreciate.

We are already seeing the impact.

"Real artists" already slowed down or stopped posting altogether.
New "traditional artists" are being greeted by users like fresh air - which should speak volumes.

How would traditional authors react, if AI generated stories were posted in the Stories forums?
As mentioned above, we have separate forums for Real Stories and Fiction.

How would viewers react, if AI generated footage were posted in the Video forums?
People complain when real models don't look ticklish enough.

Some people are already hostile to AI - and by extension to people who post AI contents.
We are already late to act.

 

[GhostOS]

I had to think about this one for a bit... first of, I'm not against the use of AI. I've tinkered with myself on occasion, and I believe it has potential to be a useful tool for artists, though at the moment it's still pretty limited (and mostly too technically complicated to fully get my head around).

There's a lot of purely AI generated stuff being posted (as in image outputs that have not been fixed or touched up or creatively altered in any significant way) and I can see that becoming a problem. This influx of cheaply generated stuff pushes down the other, hand-crafted art, limiting its exposure. I understand the call for a seperate subforum, but at the same time I agree with Jeff. It's a slippery slope.

The problem isn't so much the presence of AI, it's the lack of engagement, which is something that has been steadily declining well before AI came around. If people just took a couple of minutes to comment on art they like, and ignore the AI posts, the traditional art would stay afloat for more exposure, and it'd be the AI posts that get pushed down. It's really that simple.🙂

 

[Kalamos]

I had to think about this one for a bit... first of, I'm not against the use of AI. I've tinkered with myself on occasion, and I believe it has potential to be a useful tool for artists, though at the moment it's still pretty limited (and mostly too technically complicated to fully get my head around).

There's a lot of purely AI generated stuff being posted (as in image outputs that have not been fixed or touched up or creatively altered in any significant way) and I can see that becoming a problem. This influx of cheaply generated stuff pushes down the other, hand-crafted art, limiting its exposure. I understand the call for a seperate subforum, but at the same time I agree with Jeff. It's a slippery slope.

The problem isn't so much the presence of AI, it's the lack of engagement, which is something that has been steadily declining well before AI came around. If people just took a couple of minutes to comment on art they like, and ignore the AI posts, the traditional art would stay afloat for more exposure, and it'd be the AI posts that get pushed down. It's really that simple.🙂

That is literally the point of this post: people getting bored to sift through AI posts.
When the presence of AI becomes so abundant that it overshadows "traditional art", it's not the viewers' fault for not engaging with non-AI posts.
I could literally flood the forum with generated AI art, and traditional artists could never keep up.
Even if watchers religiously replied to every single human-drawn piece of art.

 

[ngauntjsmith]

I love the AI stuff that people on this forum have generated, and I don't have a "not really art" view of AI. Perhaps it is not the same kind of skill to produce, but some of the AI content here exhibits deep creativity, cleverness, and an exceptional amount of time, effort and devotion to produce. Not to get too philosophical, but it reminds me a bit of photography: anyone can take a photo with basically zero effort, but that doesn't prevent photography from also being an art form, when people invest enough of artistic virtues into it --- and some people do that, and it shows.

As for the forum question, I think a separate forum is a good idea. First, because there are forum readers who are specifically looking for generative AI, and forum readers that are specifically looking for conventional artwork, and life is easier if they are found in their own forums. Second, because it will help conventional artwork to have a forum where it remains dominant. Third, because generative AI is now becoming more video and less image, and it will gradually become a media category distinct from the largely image-focused artwork forum. I do not think it relegates AI content to a "not really art" status for it to have its own forum.

The only real issue, in my mind, is that some artwork is a mashup, where someone might work (fight) with AI to produce some elements, and then use conventional tools to combine those elements into a larger scene --- so in that case, where does that go? And what about Photoshop tools that integrate some AI into them? So I wouldn't recommend some kind of strict "AI free" zone, but rather a forum for images and videos that are directly or mostly generated from prompting generative AI tools.

 

[BrightWhistles]

I'd really appreciate a separate place for all the AI, a lot of it is really soulless and pulls away from people that have spent years practicing and perfecting their craft. Plus, a lot of AI is trained off of artists who DID NOT consent to their art being used.

 

[BlueLine7045]

Not to get too philosophical, but it reminds me a bit of photography: anyone can take a photo with basically zero effort, but that doesn't prevent photography from also being an art form, when people invest enough of artistic virtues into it --- and some people do that, and it shows.

Wow, this post really blew up. Im surprised how many people commented. I just wanted to touch on this real quick. I agree with 99.9% of everything else you said ngauntjsmith, but comparing photography to AI art is crazy. I would never ever refer to photography as not being art. What makes photography art, what makes it human, its the human beings eye. Their choice for location, subject, angling, etc. etc. Photography is 100% art and has been for a long time. AI art generation has no comparison at all and no attempt should be made to do so.


Kind of reiterating what I said above but also acknowledging that you all have made some good points regarding AI. I am 100% against completely generated AI pieces. Not my cup of tea, not into it. I won't give it any of my attention. Generating certain objects or whatever in a larger piece created and organized by the human mind/hand is different. For me it really comes down to how much of it is generated and how much of it is created through human ingenuity and creativity.

I don't want to be the one waving the banner against AI and I don't want to be the one drawing a line in the sand, but the way I see it is, its happening. People who make their living writing or creating art are starting to see less work come their way because of AI. AI is taking jobs, its replacing humans. The line has been drawn. People just haven't decided which side they want to take yet.

At the end of the day, I'm not against AI art on this forum. It allows people who otherwise lack the artistic abilities to contribute to do just that - contribute in their own way. Id just personally rather not see it.

For anyone that uses Deviantart, they offer the option to hide or attempt to hide most AI art if you select that option on your profile. The art is still there. Your feed is just non inundated with it upon logging in. While I am not requesting the TMF do the same, it would be nice to be able to skim through the art section without seeing every other post include "AI". And that's for the posters that remember to label their pieces.

Im also against AI generated stories, but apparently that's a battle for another day. This thread seems to be focusing on artwork. But yeah, not a big fan of AI written stories either. In fact, they're typically even worse than AI art. Again, another battle - another day.