Casting actors in alternate-race roles?

[Capnmad]

This thread is being started to pull traffic from the Jessica Biel/JLA Movie thread that may be starting a new discussion on race and casting in movies.

Okay folks! Here's your chance to sound off! Should actors of one race be seriously considered to play characters that are historically of another race, or should a director's maintaining of race consistency between actor and character be considered part of having respect for the history of the character?

Would you go to see a movie with Beyoncé as Wonder Woman?

Would you like to see a Superman portrayed by Jet Li, or Batman by Denzel Washington?

Should we entertain the idea of Blade or Spawn's roles being played by Hugh Jackman or Christian Bale?

Could there be an Indian Spider-man?

Chow Yun Fat as Sherlock Holmes?

Wesley Snipes in a remake of "Fistful of Dollars" as "The Man with No Name"?

"The Odd Couple" with Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker?

C'mon people! Where are your boundaries with this? Why or why wouldn't you let people do certain alternate-race roles?

NOTE: We're sticking just to fictional characters for the purposes of this thread, so no arguments about Robin Williams playing Martin Luther King in a biopic, or similar, should emerge.

Give us your thoughts!

 

[Bugman]

This thread is being started to pull traffic from the Jessica Biel/JLA Movie thread that may be starting a new discussion on race and casting in movies.

Okay folks! Here's your chance to sound off! Should actors of one race be seriously considered to play characters that are historically of another race, or should a director's maintaining of race consistency between actor and character be considered part of having respect for the history of the character?

Would you go to see a movie with Beyoncé as Wonder Woman?

Would you like to see a Superman portrayed by Jet Li, or Batman by Denzel Washington?

Should we entertain the idea of Blade or Spawn's roles being played by Hugh Jackman or Christian Bale?

Could there be an Indian Spider-man?

Chow Yun Fat as Sherlock Holmes?

Wesley Snipes in a remake of "Fistful of Dollars" as "The Man with No Name"?

"The Odd Couple" with Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker?

C'mon people! Where are your boundaries with this? Why or why wouldn't you let people do certain alternate-race roles?

NOTE: We're sticking just to fictional characters for the purposes of this thread, so no arguments about Robin Williams playing Martin Luther King in a biopic, or similar, should emerge.

Give us your thoughts!

In most cases that could work but with Sherlock Holmes i can't see anybody but a Brit or another caucasian playing that part.Of course Warren Oland and Sidney Toler starred in the Charlie Chan series in the 1930's and 40's but that was strictly the racial norms of the time.Not right but the way it was.But then again after Basil Rathbone i thought they should have stopped making Holmes movies anyway,so what do i know.

 

[MrPartickler]

To me, it just depends on what direction the writer/director wants to take the film:

Do they want it to be akin to a real-life (re)telling of a traditional story? ...or do they want to take things in a (slightly) different direction and perhaps innovate a little and/or maybe even bring the story more up-to-date?

I'd be willing to give any of them a try, if I thought the movie would be interesting overall.

However, I admit I do bristle a bit when they try to mix the two ideas without acknowledging the differences. I mean, there are just some places where some ethnicities are not going to "blend in." To me, it sometimes looks silly if people in the movie carry on acting as if that's not the case.

 

[Bugman]

However, I admit I do bristle a bit when they try to mix the two ideas without acknowledging the differences. I mean, there are just some places where some ethnicities are not going to "blend in." To me, it sometimes looks silly if people in the movie carry on acting as if that's not the case.

YES.That is the crux of the matter,and the words i was looking for.Thank you for expressing my feelings better then i was able to.😀

 

[maniactickler]

Id have to vote no. im a stickler for keeping things very original.

 

[kis123]

If all the other remakes around here held to traditional characters, I'd be all for staying within tradition. But these remakes don't even keep to storyline or the characters looking like the original cast.

So why not think outside the box and pick other character matches. As much as I hated Lethal Weapon, I thought Mel Gibson and Danny Glover matched very well (that's why they made about four of them).

I think Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan work as an Odd Couple. How many of those rush hour movies have they made? I can definitely see them doin a remake of Odd Couple.

As I said in the previously mentioned thread, there are actors of color who played in roles originally cast by white actors. Will Smith played in the remake of Wild wild west. He also played in six degrees of separation (one of his best, I might add) and that movie with Matt Damon (I still can't remember the name) and that was originally cast for a white actor.

Jennifer Lopez made most of her acting money playing roles normally written for white actresses. She even admitted it on Bravo during an interview. She was more interested in getting out there as an actress back then than to care if the role was for a white or Hispanic woman.

So if these two actors can do it, why not someone else? Someone mentioned on the other thread that casting Tyra Banks in the Wonder Woman role would be the same as casting Jack Black in Blade. Jack Black is IMO, a very underrated actor who can actually carry any role he plays in. He played a bad-guy role in "the jackal" with Bruce Willis; it was a short role but I thought it was a long way from the goofy comedies he's normally cast in. He just settles more for the comedies. But he's played in dramatic roles as well. He's also an accomplished (and relatively good) singer. I think he very well could pull off a role in Blade just as easily as Wesley Snipes ( who I just really can't stand).

I was only thinking outside the box and even agreed that Jessica Biel would be a decent choice. But she's too small to fit in Lynda Carter's shoes and the body type just isn't there. I thought Lynda Carter and immediately went to two women of color who could rock the role. Those ladies are Tyra Banks and Beyonce'. They have the height, the perfect body type, and could rock that role. But if you're fitting the role solely based on race, I still wouldn't make Jessica Biel my first choice.

Now I'm being accused of being racist because I thought outside the traditional box. I'm getting sick and tired of everytime issues of color get mentioned, I become the racist. I didn't say or do anything wrong; but it looks like I won't be saying anything else about it either. When the smoke settles, dust clears, and day is done, they'll pick a white female in the role. It really wouldn't matter who they picked because I'd be waiting for it to come to video rentals before I spend ten bucks in the theatre to see anyone!

 

[Laugh]

I would want the casting to be historically correct only if the character actually did exist and was not a work of imaginary fiction.

Wonder Woman is not real. She does not and has not ever existed. Therefore, it is impossible to say if she is white, black or both. She isn't a real person. It's the ideals she stands for that makes her Wonder Woman.

That said, I would not want to see Brad Pitt playing Martin Luther King Jr. and I would not want to see Denzel Washington playing John F. Kennedy. Those are actual historical figures and not a work of fiction. It would be inaccurate.

Yes Will Smith did play James West in 'Wild Wild West'. Again, a non-existent fictional character. I have no problem with that. There has also been talk of a black character being cast as Captain James T. Kirk in a Star Trek remake. I have no problem with that because once again, James Kirk is not a real person.

Hollywood cannot be inaccurate when nothing exists to dictate it's accuracy. Comic book characters can never be inaccurate because they have never existed in reality.

 

[kis123]

I would want the casting to be historically correct only if the character actually did exist and was not a work of imaginary fiction.

Wonder Woman is not real. She does not and has not ever existed. Therefore, it is impossible to say if she is white, black or both. She isn't a real person. It's the ideals she stands for that makes her Wonder Woman.

That said, I would not want to see Brad Pitt playing Martin Luther King Jr. and I would not want to see Denzel Washington playing John F. Kennedy. Those are actual living historical figures and not a work of fiction. It would be inaccurate.

Yes Will Smith did play James West in 'Wild Wild West'. Again, a non-existent fictional character. I have no problem with that. There has also been talk of a black character being cast as Captain James T. Kirk in a Star Trek remake. I have no problem with that because once again, James Kirk is not a real person.

Hollywood cannot be inaccurate when nothing exists to dictate it's accuracy.

I like the way you think!!

I'm glad Star Trek expanded it's vision. They had Avery Brooks, and (sorry I can't think of the name of the woman) who eventually became captain of Starship Enterprise. Gene Roddenberry was a visionary before his time anyway; in the 1960s, he cast a black woman, an Asian, and a Scottish man to run the Enterprise. The roles were recast in the 1980s with THE SAME ACTORS!!! What a novel concept!!! They added other cast members (Kirstie Alley comes to mind), but they kept the original cast members in the movie roles.

We've been handed down a bunch of garbage over the years. We've been spoon fed all of these so called remakes and they don't touch the originals. If that's the stance Hollywood decides to take, then go outside the box and bring people onboard that will drive ticket sales throught the roof. Tyra and Beyonce' would drive ticket sales regardless what the so-called "purists" think!! Young kids want to go see thier favorites on movie screens and are willing to pay for it.

 

[WorkInProgress]

I have more of a background with live stage than cinema, and my opinions are mainly formed from what I know about. Essentially, I favor non-traditional and multi-ethnic casting when it doesn't throw off the audience's ability to get the point of the story. I absolutely think comic book heroes can be of any ethnicity, and I absolutely think classical theatre should be cast inclusively. I have a bias, I'll admit: my social circles include aspiring black actors who want more opportunities open to them. I'll add, I think blood relatives in a story should look plausibly like blood relatives, and if a play takes place in 1901 Louisiana, it really does make a difference who's black and who's white, but when skin color and ethnicity, the things people call "race," aren't germane to the story, I think we need more ethnically inclusive casting.

 

[drew70]

If the the characters were from a book or narrative, I think it's cool to cast them of an unexpected but workable ethnicity. Characters such as Wonder Woman, Superman, and James West were originated of a particularly ethnicity, and I don't like to deviate that far from the original. However one instance in which it was pulled off pretty successfully in my opinion was in the movie Daredevil. The Kingpin was white in the comics, but black in the movie. The character didn't suffer at all because of it. Mainly because the Kingpin is basically a huge bald guy. I didn't mind his being black in the movie, because he was still a huge bald guy.

 

[brianspencer66]

I know that for years in hollywood during its golden age whites actors played mexicans, arabs, even chinese people. The Amos and Andy radio show had 2 whites actors playing the role of black characters. It was not until the TV show in the 50s that the shows producers were forced to use and all black cast. Do I think Denzel Washington should play George Washington? Of course not. But as for Superman or Wonderwoman, Santa Clause even Jesus Christ well why not a person of color. Its been taken for granted to long that all these characters or biblical figures are or should be white. I think lots of black kids have a low self esteem when they turn on the TV and most of the people they see simply dont look like them. So diversity is a healthy thing. They did a test a few years ago with little black girls with doll babies of diffrent races and most of the little girls wound up choosing the little white dolls with blond hair and blue eyes. Now Im not saying all that comes from television but it does say alot about our pop culture. If you talk to many black actors they are constantly frustated finding work when they see casting ads with buzz words like "all american". Hell I even seen casting here on this forum looking for actors of a certain color. And lets face it hollywood does not reflect the social reality of american society.

 

[milagros317]

NOTE:[/b] We're sticking just to fictional characters for the purposes of this thread, so no arguments about Robin Williams playing Martin Luther King in a biopic, or similar, should emerge.

Give us your thoughts!

I saw an African American actor portray Julius Ceaser in Shakespeare's play of that title, and he gave a fine performance. Yes, the historical Julius Ceaser was Italian, but in fact the play was in no way less effective because the actor was African American.

The example you gave would be different, in that a biography of Dr. King would be about race in many periods of his life. Race was not a subject in that Shakespeare play, as it clearly was in Othello.

 

[isabeau]

i say sure i would....Denzel Washington as Batman...wowow...nothing sexier..

i don't see why it couldn't work...i haven't looked at the Jessical Beal thread as i haven't a clue as to who she is...

 

[WorkInProgress]

Some years back I worked for a publication which routinely ran casting notices, and I was directly involved in processing and editing them. As much as I was in a position to, I addressed the problem that Brian Spencer refers to, of inadvertently insulting phrases like "all-American," as well as the problem of character descriptions that omitted all reference to ethnicity and let it be assumed that roles were white unless otherwise indicated. I was influenced by a call I got from a black actress who had had the experience of seeing lines like "Bertha: 25-35, sensitive yet decisive," and showing up at open calls only to be told that there weren't any roles for black performers. I made a practice of asking producers to say "Bertha: 25-35, white, sensitive yet decisive" if that was indeed the case.

 

[TickleGoddess06]

All I have to say is "The Legend of Bagger Vance". It was based off of a true story, so, yes, those people were real and the role Will Smith played was originally a white person.

(At least, that's what Access Hollywood had said, when the movie came out)

Personally, I could care less. But that's me, I've never been one to be really picky about which roles actors potrayed as long as the person in question, could actually act.

Now, I can understand, like Denzel being JFK wouldn't work and Brad being MLK wouldn't work, but thing again, I'm not one to get my panties in a bunch if that happened. I would still see the movie and I would still accurately review it and never, ever go insane over who played who.

OMGZ tis a black doode playin JFK <---- Never, ever, ever. I would not freak out about it.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

I wanna see a White Shaft.


That's my answer to that question. 😎

 

[Capnmad]

I wanna see a White Shaft.

Then I'm sure there's a special section in the adult video store just for you. 😀

Next? 😎

 

[General Zod]

Then I'm sure there's a special section in the adult video store just for you. 😀

Next? 😎

Boooooooooooooooooo 😛

As a comic book purist I say no Take for example Wonder Woman She is basically an Amazonian character with ties to the Greek and Roman gods To me she should then have say a Greek accent

Look back at the first two Batman movies Harvey Dent aka Two Face was played by Billy Dee Williams An African-American He played Harvey/Two Face before he became a villain Now I did not have a problem with that

Look at Batman 3 Tommy Lee Jones played Harvey Dent who became Two Face in that movie

So was Harvey Dent a black guy,or white guy?

As a long time comic book fan,I don't like when Hollyweird takes liberties with comic book characters

 

[brianspencer66]

Boooooooooooooooooo 😛

As a comic book purist I say no Take for example Wonder Woman She is basically an Amazonian character with ties to the Greek and Roman gods To me she should then have say a Greek accent

Look back at the first two Batman movies Harvey Dent aka Two Face was played by Billy Dee Williams An African-American He played Harvey/Two Face before he became a villain Now I did not have a problem with that

Look at Batman 3 Tommy Lee Jones played Harvey Dent who became Two Face in that movie

So was Harvey Dent a black guy,or white guy?

As a long time comic book fan,I don't like when Hollyweird takes liberties with comic book characters

And did you know that Lassie was played by both male and female Collies in the old TV series? No one cares, its fantasy and entertainment. If one wants to be a die hard fan then Id stick to the comics.

 

[Strider]

It would have to be taken case by case. You mentioned Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker in the Odd Couple, that would be perfectly fine, because it doesn't really matter what the characters in the Odd Couple look like, the point is the concept(indeed, Neil Simon wrote a female version which was basically the exact same script with different names).

On the other hand, too much tinkering can just stretch the bounds of credulity. If you want to write a version of Hamlet set in Imperial China, then do so. But don't cast a Chinese actor as Hamlet and change nothing else, the idea that there could have been a Chinese member of the Danish royal family in the 16th century is just silly and would look ridiculous(although, to echo what Mils said, this seems to be more of an issue on screen than in theater).

On the subject of comic book characters, being a huge comic book geek, I'm sort of a purist just on general principle. I didn't have a problem with Michael Clarke Duncan playing the Kingpin, because the Kingpin, first and foremost is a huge guy, and while I suppose they could have cast a white pro-wrestler, it was nice to see them pick someone who could actually act. By the same token, I did have an issue with Jennifer Garner playing Elektra, because Elektra's Greek, and Jennifer Garner looks about as Greek as Cate Blanchett. I wouldn't have had a problem with it if they had just not mentioned her ethnicity, but they specifically made the point that her father was the Greek ambassador, and cast a Greek actor to play him, so it just looked silly.

Just on the Wonder Woman issue, she is an Amazon, so I'd like to see them at least try to get someone who looks vaguely Mediterranean.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

And did you know that Lassie was played by both male and female Collies in the old TV series? No one cares, its fantasy and entertainment. If one wants to be a die hard fan then Id stick to the comics.

People would care however if they used a bulldog for lassie more then likely.


IMO, while creative licensing can be a good thing, V for Vendetta is a great example where creative licensing for a comic to movie adaption worked out great, it should be taken with the writers own peril. Most people when they go to see a movie on a well established charactor aren't paying to see somebody take that charactor and twist it into something else. Ie,if i'm paying to see Spider-man, i don;t want to see Cuba Gooding playing the role of peter parker. Incidently however, i don't want a white guy playing peter parker, and then have him being a pimp on the side to make a few bucks. Want to make a movie with a black actor with spider powers? Want to give somebody powers like an established charactor but have his personality completely different? Perfectly fine. Just don't do it with a well established charactor that everybody already knows and loves.

 

[Wildtime]

Sometimes change is good...

Everyone has pre-conceptions of who would be the ideal actor for their favorite fictional characters; based on appearance, mannerisms and ethnicity. However, if the actor doesn't fit the role--the character won't be as believable. Case in point: George Clooney playing Batman.

When Battlestar Galactica came out with a female Starbuck, I really wasn't expecting that. However, Katie Sackoff (I hope I spelled her name right) is one hell of an actress and I think she defined the character better than Dirk Benedict ever did. Plus, having Boomer as a female cylon is one of the best character re-definitions I have ever seen.

 

[brianspencer66]

People would care however if they used a bulldog for lassie more then likely.


IMO, while creative licensing can be a good thing, V for Vendetta is a great example where creative licensing for a comic to movie adaption worked out great, it should be taken with the writers own peril. Most people when they go to see a movie on a well established charactor aren't paying to see somebody take that charactor and twist it into something else. Ie,if i'm paying to see Spider-man, i don;t want to see Cuba Gooding playing the role of peter parker. Incidently however, i don't want a white guy playing peter parker, and then have him being a pimp on the side to make a few bucks. Want to make a movie with a black actor with spider powers? Want to give somebody powers like an established charactor but have his personality completely different? Perfectly fine. Just don't do it with a well established charactor that everybody already knows and loves.

I think my point may have been lost here Cosmo. Im not really all that concerned if Spider Man or Superman or Wonderwoman is either black or white and to tell the truth I dont think most people really care either. keep in mind most people who are serious comic book readers are males between 12 and maybe 25. And that is just a small fraction of the male population. Personally I dont think the general audience really cares about Spidermans backround I think they are paying their dollars to see a cool looking guy swinging from buildings.

But the main point I was making really is that there are sooooo many parts in hollywood that are fictional that could go to actors who are asian, hispanic or black that simply go to white actors all the time. Open the newspaper and look at the movie ads or flick the channel on the TV set and count how many actors of color you see compared to white actors. Thats the real point Im trying to make as Im not really a comic book reader anymore anyway (I prefered Archie lol). So if you comic book young guys want someone Greek to stay true to the character no problem. But It does make you wonder why are people so bothered by a Black Spider man?

 

[kis123]

Ie,if i'm paying to see Spider-man, i don;t want to see Cuba Gooding playing the role of peter parker. Incidently however, i don't want a white guy playing peter parker, and then have him being a pimp on the side to make a few bucks.

Care to elaborate???

Why would changing the race of the character lead to changing the storyline? And why would you state that casting a black actor changes the storyline to a pimp?

I'll wait for your response before I comment any further. I'm just hoping my interpretation of your post is wrong.

 

[Dussicar]

Sometimes it gets downright annoying to see in the casting mindset.

Why would you make a movie set in Britain and then cast Americans as the main characters? Now, don't get me wrong, I loved how Hugh Jackman pulled off Wolverine, but if you break it down, it just comes across as odd:

They cast an Australian...To play a Canadian...In an American movie.

As for the topic at hand, it really depends. Some production companies hire based on talent. Others do it based on pandering to a demographic. It's pretty easy to spot the ideal they were going for about a quarter into the movie.

I don't like false pretenses.