Charity tickles

[MrPartickler]

Ok. Here's the scenario. You're with someone (a s/o, or just a date) who you know for a fact is not into tickling at all, but they know that you are. One day, in order to make you feel better about something or perhaps as a favor or gift, s/he says, teasingly: "I'll let you tickle me if...." (e.g., if you're a ler) or, alternatively, "I'll tickle you if...." (e.g., if you're a lee).

How would you respond to this situation? and why?

......
I started thinking about this after a recent conversation with someone regarding relationships with folks not into tickling. It's a situation I've been faced with before. And many years ago, I might have accepted such an offer. After all, I had no alternatives, and my experiences were quite limited. However, as I've experienced more and my tastes have matured, I've found my gut reactions to the above proposal (again, given the person is not into tickling) are fairly strongly negative.

It's sort of an "I neither want nor need your charity" or "Don't do me any favors" kinda feeling. I am aware that the person may be/may have been just trying to be nice or make me happy in some way. (So it's not like I want to lash out at them. lol) It's just that mentally, for me, such an offer tends to have the opposite effect given that I know they're not really into it themselves at all. If fact, I'd probably be more inclined to tickle them if they'd never said anything about it at all.

Interestingly, I've received a few offers like this in the recent past--not from s/o's, however, but the occasional/potential date. So far, I've always passed. Thanks, but no thanks. Admittedly, sometimes I think I should give it a try and see if I might make a convert or something. But it seldom seems worth the effort to me anymore.

Does anyone else feel similarly?

 

[minerva]

Speaking from a 'lee's point of view - I wouldn't take the offer either, not sure if for the same resaons though.

First of all, I basically don't mind a favor at all, but I don't appriciate it when people use favors to make a deal. If they want to do me a favor, fine, but as soon as they ASK for something in return I don't need their favor anymore.

Secondly - and that's even more important in this case - having someone tickle me who's doesn't see tickling the way I do, doesn't make sense to me at all. Tickling is not just plain fun for me and in order to make it a good experience my 'ler needs to 'understand' like only someone who's into it can.

 

[Anna6-9]

Im my expeirence those that arent into it are rarely any good at it at all anyways. Those that have done so simply because they knew I was into it tried to hard and ended up just hurting me and got the opposite affect they were going for (turning me off instead of on). I felt like "well nice try but...yawn"...

 

[lk70]

Yeah, that would generate a negative response in me as well. Don't do me any favors, bud. And then I'd dump him.

 

[darvon96]

I’m not sure I understand why so many have negative feelings over this. My wife and I are in constant negotiations, and I think it adds a nice spice to the relationship. This morning for example, she explicitly forbid me from buying flowers for her on Valentines Day, sighting that it’s a complete waste of money. So, I suggested that instead of flowers, how about a quiet dinner together followed by a very long full body massage. She gleefully accepted the offer with the caveat of “and no tickling at all”. I whole heartedly agreed, but came back with a counter offer that it would be open season for her ticklish body over the weekend, to which she happily agreed. Those are the kind of negotiations I live for.

 

[LindyHopper]

As a 'lee, I'm uninterested in charity tickles, because if the 'ler's not really into it, it's unlikely he's going to do a very good job.

As a 'ler though..... I'd say "maybe." It reminds me of a submissive's "gift" to a dominant, of offering to go through an experience she doesn't find enjoyable in and of itself, because the dom's happiness the reward. I feel the appropriate word is "generosity," not "charity."

And if this is a date, or a potential date, I'd definitely go for it. If the "offer" is coming from someone who's never tried tickling before, it's also a request for exploration and experimentation. She's might well be thinking, "It sounds kind of crazy to me, but now I'm curious..." And I'm all for teaching and education! 😀

 

[MrPartickler]

Thanks for the responses so far.

First of all, I basically don't mind a favor at all, but I don't appriciate it when people use favors to make a deal. If they want to do me a favor, fine, but as soon as they ASK for something in return I don't need their favor anymore.

I see what you mean. It's hard to explain, but I phrased the questions like that partly because it usually feels like they're making a deal to me whether they say it explicitly or not. (For instance, the person likes you for their own reasons, and they simply want you to like them back.) On the other hand, if it felt like a genuine favor, it would seem even moreso like charity to me. So they're both undesirable in my mind. But, again, I see that there can be a distinction made.

Secondly - and that's even more important in this case - having someone tickle me who's doesn't see tickling the way I do, doesn't make sense to me at all. Tickling is not just plain fun for me and in order to make it a good experience my 'ler needs to 'understand' like only someone who's into it can.

I definitely understand this from the ler POV. The only time I tend to second-guess being hard-nosed about it is when I consider the potential for "conversion." I know it has happened, and that it can happen. I just think the likelihood of it happening is pretty low. So I'm generally unmotivated to put in the time and effort it would take to make it even possible.

Im my expeirence those that arent into it are rarely any good at it at all anyways. Those that have done so simply because they knew I was into it tried to hard and ended up just hurting me and got the opposite affect they were going for (turning me off instead of on). I felt like "well nice try but...yawn"...

I've had less than memorable experiences along these lines as well (again, from the ler side). If a person's not into it, that tends to show through at some point. At that point, the fun is all but over for me. And, for better or for worse, I don't think I'm particularly good at acting like I'm enjoying myself when I'm not. It's like "So yeah, umm, what's on cable?" lol (Ok, I'm not that bad. Well, unless something good really is on cable! 😛 )

Yeah, that would generate a negative response in me as well. Don't do me any favors, bud. And then I'd dump him.

LOL. I don't know if I'm that hard core. Or, maybe I am. Only I prefer just to not let things get to the point where "dumpage" is necessary. lol

I'll share a relevant personal story...

I received a message today from a woman who knows of my tickling fetish and is willing to "let me tickle her." (There's that phrase again ::shudder:: , but to be fair she never said those words explicitly.) She's attractive and likes me, but I know she's not into tickling. (She is into other things, however.) As a result my interest has diminished significantly. This kind of situation actually comes up for me more often than I would've predicted years ago.

I’m not sure I understand why so many have negative feelings over this. My wife and I are in constant negotiations, and I think it adds a nice spice to the relationship. This morning for example, she explicitly forbid me from buying flowers for her on Valentines Day, sighting that it’s a complete waste of money. So, I suggested that instead of flowers, how about a quiet dinner together followed by a very long full body massage. She gleefully accepted the offer with the caveat of “and no tickling at all”. I whole heartedly agreed, but came back with a counter offer that it would be open season for her ticklish body over the weekend, to which she happily agreed. Those are the kind of negotiations I live for.

Actually, despite this thread so far, I suspect many don't have the negative reactions I've read here. That's partly why I asked the question actually.

Many seem to respond quite favorably when someone ticklish "allows themselves to be tickled" or is tickled in a surprise attack or just randomly. And I've seen plenty of others post enthusiastic accounts of having persuaded their partners to indulge them as well. Frequently, when such stories are told, relatively little regard is given for whether the ler or lee is genuinely into it. Descriptions of reactions and tickling intensity usually take center stage.

I'm guessing that some may also share your view that the negotiations are part of the fun. I'm sort of envious of that actually. I suspect that finding someone to could negotiate with is easier to find than finding someone who essentially shares your POV.

And if this is a date, or a potential date, I'd definitely go for it. If the "offer" is coming from someone who's never tried tickling before, it's also a request for exploration and experimentation. She's might well be thinking, "It sounds kind of crazy to me, but now I'm curious..." And I'm all for teaching and education!

These are experiences I'd definitely go for if there's a real indication of interest or curiosity. However, in my experiences, that's normally not the case. (I actually do like to investigate a little to see if that is the case before abandoning ship. As you say, education is cool! 😉 ) But the issue for me and potential dates arises once I'm fairly certain she's really interested in something else, and the whole "tickling thing" is sort of in the way of that.

 

[minerva]

I see what you mean. It's hard to explain, but I phrased the questions like that partly because it usually feels like they're making a deal to me whether they say it explicitly or not. (For instance, the person likes you for their own reasons, and they simply want you to like them back.) On the other hand, if it felt like a genuine favor, it would seem even moreso like charity to me. So they're both undesirable in my mind. But, again, I see that there can be a distinction made..

Hmm, when talking about genuine favors the big difference for me would be the persons intention as well.

If they'd wanna do me that favor simply because they like/love me and wanna make me really happy with what they plan doing, I'd basically appricate their offer a lot, but then again, there'd still be the thing with them not really being into it, so just because of that I'd probably still wouldn't take the offer and would honestly explain to them why.
Wouldn't feel like charity to me at all though, to me it would be like a genuinly given present and thats not a bad thing at all IMO 🙂

If I strongly felt a person wants to do me a favor out of 'pity' now THAT would feel like charity to me and I wouldn't respond too enthusiastic to that either.

I definitely understand this from the ler POV. The only time I tend to second-guess being hard-nosed about it is when I consider the potential for "conversion." I know it has happened, and that it can happen. I just think the likelihood of it happening is pretty low. So I'm generally unmotivated to put in the time and effort it would take to make it even possible.

Not sure I get this right.
You mean conversation as in seeing a potential to try to 'convert' that person ?

I've had less than memorable experiences along these lines as well (again, from the ler side). If a person's not into it, that tends to show through at some point. At that point, the fun is all but over for me.

My point exactly. As Anna and Lindy also said, if they're not into it, they'd hardly be good at what they are doing and even more importantly to me, they would have no way of understanding the psychology behind the whole experience. They wouldn't know the right way to verbally tease and they wouldn't know how to judge my reactions properly.
Just imagine if they'd for some reason manage to make me beg them to stop and they really would. HOW disappointing would that be. 😉

These are experiences I'd definitely go for if there's a real indication of interest or curiosity. However, in my experiences, that's normally not the case. (I actually do like to investigate a little to see if that is the case before abandoning ship. As you say, education is cool! 😉 ) But the issue for me and potential dates arises once I'm fairly certain she's really interested in something else, and the whole "tickling thing" is sort of in the way of that.

As a 'lee with a strong submissive streak I'm not into 'education and teaching' at all. Can't help it, but to me it would feel as if I'm kind of dominating myself.

 

[GirlWhoLikes2Laugh]

Yeah, that would generate a negative response in me as well. Don't do me any favors, bud. And then I'd dump him.

I agree with her.

 

[MrPartickler]

Not sure I get this right.
You mean conversation as in seeing a potential to try to 'convert' that person ?

Sorta. Although I'll admit that "conversion" is probably too strong a word. We sometimes hear/read stories from folks on this very forum who'll say they weren't into tickling until after their partner coaxed them into the fold--generally over a fairly long period of time as I understand it. Eventually, they grew to love it. I suppose this is related to the "education" point made by Lindy. However, the idea here is that it's may take many, many classes to bring them up to speed.

Anyway, I was really just giving a nod to those who have the patience and/or those who have succeeded in this regard.

As a 'lee with a strong submissive streak I'm not into 'education and teaching' at all. Can't help it, but to me it would feel as if I'm kind of dominating myself.

lol That makes sense. I'll add the caveat that while introducing someone who's curious is somewhat appealing to me as a "top," from that point on, I'm once again looking for signs of genuine interest in tickling. If the interest isn't there for her, then well, mine will begin to wane as well.

 

[chicago]

Depends. It'd kind of suck if I knew the person doing it didn't really like it.

Luckily I haven't had to deal with that.

 

[LindyHopper]

It's hard to explain, but I phrased the questions like that partly because it usually feels like they're making a deal to me whether they say it explicitly or not. (For instance, the person likes you for their own reasons, and they simply want you to like them back.)

I think it seems rather cynical to call trying to please a guy you like so that he'll like you back "making a deal." 😛 If someone likes you, they can often find enjoyment in things that you enjoy, just because you enjoy them. That's part of the empathy that binds happy people together. 🙂

I definitely understand this from the ler POV. The only time I tend to second-guess being hard-nosed about it is when I consider the potential for "conversion." I know it has happened, and that it can happen. I just think the likelihood of it happening is pretty low. So I'm generally unmotivated to put in the time and effort it would take to make it even possible.

Again, cynical. 😉 I've known several people (myself included) who've gotten together with SOs who weren't into tickling. Based on what I've observed, the most likely outcome in this situation is a partner who comes to enjoy tickling on some level, usually because it turns their partner on, and so is willing, even happy, to participate.

I've had less than memorable experiences along these lines as well (again, from the ler side). If a person's not into it, that tends to show through at some point.

I'm guessing your 'lee wasn't having an orgasm at the time. 😀 But seriously, coupling tickling with something she does enjoy is often an important part of the conversion.

I think many men around here have found that simply finding a woman who shares an interest in tickling is a pretty low-probability proposition. I think finding a woman who is open-minded and flexible is a much better bet.

I'll admit that "conversion" is probably too strong a word. We sometimes hear/read stories from folks on this very forum who'll say they weren't into tickling until after their partner coaxed them into the fold--generally over a fairly long period of time as I understand it. Eventually, they grew to love it. I suppose this is related to the "education" point made by Lindy. However, the idea here is that it's may take many, many classes to bring them up to speed.

Yes. And I don't think most such people grow to "love" it, merely like it, and only within a certain context.

Many seem to respond quite favorably when someone ticklish "allows themselves to be tickled" or is tickled in a surprise attack or just randomly. And I've seen plenty of others post enthusiastic accounts of having persuaded their partners to indulge them as well. Frequently, when such stories are told, relatively little regard is given for whether the ler or lee is genuinely into it.

That's very true. Even though the real non-consensual crowd is a tiny minority on the TMF, it does sometimes seem like the 'lers who actually care about the 'lees' genuine enjoyment are in the minority around here.

Wouldn't feel like charity to me at all though, to me it would be like a genuinly given present and thats not a bad thing at all IMO 🙂

I like that way of thinking about it. 🙂

As a 'lee with a strong submissive streak I'm not into 'education and teaching' at all. Can't help it, but to me it would feel as if I'm kind of dominating myself.

I can definitely understand that. My first choice is always for a 'ler who loves tickling, and really "gets" it. But a 'ler who wants to make me happy, even if he doesn't enjoy tickling for its own sake, is a reasonable second choice.

I don't like "dominating myself" either, so I tend to figure that my "education and teaching" isn't for this time - it's for next time. Once you take the time to give someone a little training, they can often surprise you with the results.

 

[dvnc]

Bartering? No thanks.

Exchange, however, makes sense to me, as I've involved with folks outside our community where the play was great. She got what she wanted, I got what I wanted. Fair exchange with someone digging the situation works for me.

Bartering for services or compensation has another sound to it entirely.

 

[RavenMoon]

It would depend greatly on the context...

Generally, I would have no interest in an exchange unless it was something I may be willing to do any way. It would also greatly depend on the other party involved. If it was someone I have been desiring to lure to my kinks, I may be willing to do a trade off. I am good at what I do and it would not be the first time I converted someone to my darkness.

I am just a little bit wicked after all... 😀

 

[MrPartickler]

Luckily I haven't had to deal with that.

Just give it time. lol

I think it seems rather cynical to call trying to please a guy you like so that he'll like you back "making a deal." 😛 If someone likes you, they can often find enjoyment in things that you enjoy, just because you enjoy them. That's part of the empathy that binds happy people together. 🙂

Again, cynical. I've known several people (myself included) who've gotten together with SOs who weren't into tickling. Based on what I've observed, the most likely outcome in this situation is a partner who comes to enjoy tickling on some level, usually because it turns their partner on, and so is willing, even happy, to participate.

And I don't think most such people grow to "love" it, merely like it, and only within a certain context.

Who me? Cynical? 😀

Actually I've had these kinds of relationships before. They don't seem to work for me. Perhaps for the short term they may be OK. (In fact, I find lots of things acceptable for short periods of time.) However, I've often found that when someone doesn't really "get it," their predispositions eventually show through. Once that happens, even the activities that were within bounds tend to lose their appeal for me. (So yeah, I think that addresses your orgasm-related comment too. 😛 )

I do think that some are OK with similar situations, or they've found some other workaround that satisfies them. Hearing these different perspectives is at least partly why I started this thread.

I think many men around here have found that simply finding a woman who shares an interest in tickling is a pretty low-probability proposition. I think finding a woman who is open-minded and flexible is a much better bet.

No arguments here. I guess I'm just coming to grips with the idea that her open-mindedness may have to be pretty unique for my admittedly jaded brain to not automatically associate a negative connotation to it. So yeah, I may be screwed.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

Ok. Here's the scenario. You're with someone (a s/o, or just a date) who you know for a fact is not into tickling at all, but they know that you are. One day, in order to make you feel better about something or perhaps as a favor or gift, s/he says, teasingly: "I'll let you tickle me if...." (e.g., if you're a ler) or, alternatively, "I'll tickle you if...." (e.g., if you're a lee).

Just curious MrP, but if it was something else, say they didn't like monster truck racing but offered to take you to go see one because they knew you liked them, would you have the same response/feelings?


That being said, my opinion on this is that it is nothing more then the typical give/take dynamic of a relationship. Generally speaking, there are always things that you and your SO feel differently about. One might like action movies,and the other might hate them. However because the one that hates them knows the other loves them, they are willing to sit through the movie, because they know it brings pleasure to the one that loves them. We do this becaue we care about our SO and want them to be happy. Now, certainly everybody has their limits, but IMO, every healthy relationship has to have a certain degree of give/take to it.

 

[MrPartickler]

Just curious MrP, but if it was something else, say they didn't like monster truck racing but offered to take you to go see one because they knew you liked them, would you have the same response/feelings?


That being said, my opinion on this is that it is nothing more then the typical give/take dynamic of a relationship. Generally speaking, there are always things that you and your SO feel differently about. One might like action movies,and the other might hate them. However because the one that hates them knows the other loves them, they are willing to sit through the movie, because they know it brings pleasure to the one that loves them. We do this becaue we care about our SO and want them to be happy. Now, certainly everybody has their limits, but IMO, every healthy relationship has to have a certain degree of give/take to it.

I think there's a difference here, for me at least. If someone was going to a ballgame or watching a TV program I loved and they hated, they could say to me honestly "I really hate this sh*t, but I'm doing it anyway." And I'd probably say something like: "I know, but remember how you made me sit through that figure skating competition and watch 'Steel Magnolias' the other night?" lol So there'd be mutual grumbling in a playful sort of way and we'd be done with it. Give and take.

I look at intimate things a little differently. To me, they're for mutual (in this case) physical enjoyment. I sort of feel like it's sharing a very personal gift. So if the gift is not really desired or enjoyed, I'd just as soon not share it. If a woman were to say, "I really don't like it when you touch me, but I'll let you do it anyway," it would be much different (to me) than her sitting through ballgame for me. I mean, the former may be a far more kind and generous offer for certain. I'm just disinclined to share a personal part of me that's designed for mutual pleasure and try to turn it into something that would essentially be only about my own.

 

[tcklft]

If tickling wasn't her thing but I felt she was making a sincere effort to do something nice for me, of course I'd take her up on her offer. Who knows, maybe she has a latent talent I can help nurture. You never know until you try!

 

[lk70]

I think there's a difference here, for me at least. If someone was going to a ballgame or watching a TV program I loved and they hated, they could say to me honestly "I really hate this sh*t, but I'm doing it anyway." And I'd probably say something like: "I know, but remember how you made me sit through that figure skating competition and watch 'Steel Magnolias' the other night?" lol So there'd be mutual grumbling in a playful sort of way and we'd be done with it. Give and take.

I look at intimate things a little differently. To me, they're for mutual (in this case) physical enjoyment. I sort of feel like it's sharing a very personal gift. So if the gift is not really desired or enjoyed, I'd just as soon not share it. If a woman were to say, "I really don't like it when you touch me, but I'll let you do it anyway," it would be much different (to me) than her sitting through ballgame for me. I mean, the former may be a far more kind and generous offer for certain. I'm just disinclined to share a personal part of me that's designed for mutual pleasure and try to turn it into something that would essentially be only about my own.

Agreed. That's exactly how I feel about it. Although, if they REALLY don't like the ballgame (or in my case NASCAR) and aren't going to enjoy it with me and be someone I can share it with, I'd just as soon they stay home or do something they like with someone else they like. I'm ok with just meeting on those grounds that both of us truly enjoy. In fact, I prefer it.