Double billing post,...

[CDFGA]

Why was that thread closed after TB's response? That sure does seem fishy. I don't see how that guy was being unreasonable, if it was me, I would be upset, also. I am glad to see posts where people let on to whats going on, positive or negative.
TC, you should take responsibility for your actions, and if you subcontract your work out, they are a part of you, like it or not. I feel the guy should have obviously not been overcharged, but when you found out about it, you should have immideately reimbursed him, and took the rest up with YOUR billing company. THAT is good customer service. TB's continuing arrogance on this forum has definately been noted. I see thet are pushing a lot more video's out lately, I guess they have to in response to their last issue here (The selling of our (Or still their...??) videos thing).
Mods., -I understand you don't want this to turn into an argument, and I'm not trying to create one, but to close a thread everytime TC is involved negatively sure is mighty suspicious. This looks like something an Al Gore administration would do. ...Just makes me question the honesty and openness of this forum.

 

[Casper33]

Where to begin...Let me say first that I have never bought a movie from Femfeet Productions. That being said, my experience in retail and credit card companies, is that some things are not as easily corrected as we would like them to be. I can not tell you how many times customers of mine have been double charged and how I had to explain to them that one phone call would not neccesarily rectify situation. TIB has ran a decent company for a decent period of time (once again I am going on the posts I have read on them up to this point) and I don't think and threatening or veiled threats are going to make this situation any more expeditious. I agree that the post should not have been closed, but from the Forum's perspective, just IMAGINE the responses that post would have gotten. It could have become a site of its own...lol. I hope I am not rambling to much, my point is this. Sometimes in business we can't always get the desired results in the time we want. I personally am going to order a video from TIB just because i think he is getting treated a little unfairly..I just need to figure out which one to buy..lol.

 

[SuperTickler]

...when you found out about it, you should have immideately reimbursed him, and took the rest up with YOUR billing company. THAT is good customer service...

This is actually a pretty good point. Even if it's the company that TC "sub-contracts" to that did the double-billing, they theoretically PAID TC Videos that money. There should also be a record that the customer was charged twice for the same video to confirm the claim. It seems to me the correct course of action would have been for TC Videos to send the customer a refund check for the double-billing.

I also agree on the subject of TIB's arrogance. I frankly don't understand why every thread critical of TIB seems to be subjected to censorship by "locking" the thread from further communication. TIB creates so many posts promoting his videos that I sometimes think I'm on the TIBMF. He double-posts announcements of his new videos in more than one sub-forum, in apparent violation of TMF policy, and nothing is ever done about it. And now he's got a second "alter-ego" posting on his behalf. I really don't understand why this guy gets such preferential treatment!

 

[evilqueen]

fer cryin out loud

The thread was locked because vendor problems are between customer and supplier. Such threads are removed as a matter of course but in this case the supplier responded so the topic was ended and the thread closed. The TMF isn't a consumer action forum, it's a place to look at porn. Got a problem with your purchased porn, then take it to your porn producer.

Take a deep breath, guys. Not everything is a big fat tickling conspiracy.

 

[NYCity]

Re: fer cryin out loud

The thread was locked because vendor problems are between customer and supplier. Such threads are removed as a matter of course but in this case the supplier responded so the topic was ended and the thread closed. The TMF isn't a consumer action forum, it's a place to look at porn. Got a problem with your purchased porn, then take it to your porn producer.

Take a deep breath, guys. Not everything is a big fat tickling conspiracy.

I thought this section was for members to go to decide which videos are worth buying and from whom. That can only be done if people are free to post BOTH their positive AND negative experiences with videos and and video companies. While I agree that this should not turn into an endless bashing session (that was the old AMT), some objectivity and different opinions are what make the TMF great. It seems that threads that PRAISE video companies are allowed, and do not close after 2 posts, while legitimate complaints are deleted and/or threads are closed. How will the members of the TMF know which producers are worth dealing with if only the praises are allowed to stand? In choosing which videos to buy and which ones to avoid, which companies to buy from and which to avoid, I rely on my fellow TMFers to be able to share that info. Otherwise this becomes nothing but an infomercial by and for the video companies and the people that kiss their ass.

 

[Myriads]

Why was the thread closed? Simple I closed it. The position that EQ covered above is basically the reason, but I'll go one step further and add that the thread had no place to go other then in a lets bash TC direction, and I closed it to prevent further problems that I knew would come. I'm proactive that way. But here we all are anyway. Guess that shows me.

Does TC get special treatment? Nope, all media producers are allowed to cross post announcements and such in the Tickling Discussion, Image, Clips and links forums. They are allowed to do so because these are the people who make the forum go. They provide all the content that you come here to see. And see free I might add. So we let them get some promotion value for the contributions that they offer. MTP, MTJ, TC and others all cross post their stuff. Extremeticking and Tickling.ws have their own Internet Discusssion forums. So no, TC is not getting some singled out special treatment. So when any of you start a company and start making contributions to the community on the level of these folks, we'll be thrilled to see your announcements in the many forums.

Why is it that threads posted by the TiB are always getting locked? It's because people are alway going that extra special distances to turn them into battles. Like any thread that's starting to burn we turn them off. Every producer seems to gather a group of people who want to do nothign but bitch at them. Unlike ATM here we'll take steps to keep the level of flames directed at the producers minimal. They are community members also. Idealy we like issues between users and vendors to be handled off forum in personal mail. But sometimes stuff appears here. When it does we try to keep it as limited as we can. When a user has a real problem with a vendor that is clearly unresolved we allow a warning post to be made so other users know what they might be gettign into. TC has always seemed to have it's customers interests at heart, and takes fast action, so that's not the case here.

Regarding credit cards: I run a business also, and guess what happens when you yourself refund a credit card double billing? A week or so later the ceredit card comapany gets around to fixing the error from their side and deduct the amount from your bank account. Then you have not only refunded the cost, but given back the purchase price AGAIN. Thus you've given the goods away for free. It's always best to sit tight and wait for the credit comapany to fix the problem first. Otherwise the vendor ends up eatign the cost. It sucks, but sometimes this stuff takes time. Sadly the world is not all instant gratification.

Myriads

 

[ticklevids]

myriads... excellent post.

Myriads.... that was a great post that I'm sure will go over most people's heads.

My personal opinion is that the guy who is screaming and yelling about TC, i think it was sbourne, is a reactionary who has no idea of what it takes to self run a business of this sort. First, the tape with the out of sync audio (which he didn't even give TC a chance to fix before he flamed him).... now this.

Folks, ORIGINAL tickling content is few and far between. All we see in the images section and vidclips section is repost after repost of material that is sometimes decades old. You don't have to kiss TC's ass but I for one am glad he and his competitors are here contributing ORIGINAL content, even if it is to spur on sales.

 

[SuperTickler]

...Like any thread that's starting to burn we turn them off. Every producer seems to gather a group of people who want to do nothign but bitch at them...

Seems to me that there have been plenty of flames directed at Gabrielle of Paradise Vision and those posts/threads never seem to get deleted or closed down. Does PV not create tickling content?

But I guess it's like Orwell's "Animal Farm": In the TMF, "some animals are more equal than others."

 

[NYCity]

Seems to me that there have been plenty of flames directed at Gabrielle of Paradise Vision and those posts/threads never seem to get deleted or closed down. Does PV not create tickling content?

But I guess it's like Orwell's "Animal Farm": In the TMF, "some animals are more equal than others."

EXCELLENT point Supertickler. There are a couple of video companies (no need to name names) that, if you don't agree that they walk on water, you are criticized for failing to recognize that they are doing us a favor by being in business in the first place. With other companies, whose producers who have done something that didn't sit well with someone in the "in crowd", the description of negative experiences is more easily tolerated. Foot Paradise is one. TJ Productions is/was another.

I once expressed interest in TJ videos, should they ever become commercially available again, and I was gently encouraged by some, including one mod (in a polite, respectful way) that it would probably be best not to pursue that interest, since apparently the producer had, at one time, said or done something to offend someone in the "in crowd".

The Animal Farm comparsion is dead on.

Capitalism, rest in peace.

 

[evilqueen]

The Animal Farm comparsion is dead on.

Capitalism, rest in peace.

Yes, quite an apt comparison; and now I see how TMF censorship robs us all of our right to purchase tickling porn. Gord knows PV makes no money at all, thanks to repressive tactics; and its owner is practically destitute. That's because there's not a single other place on the entire Web where tickling videos can be discussed. No other forums, no other websites, no billions of Yahoo groups.

What a tool I've been. Oh well. What with the moderator salary, and the per-post bonuses, and the MTP stock options, I just can't afford to stop oppressing people.

 

[NYCity]

Yes, quite an apt comparison; and now I see how TMF censorship robs us all of our right to purchase tickling porn. Gord knows PV makes no money at all, thanks to repressive tactics; and its owner is practically destitute. That's because there's not a single other place on the entire Web where tickling videos can be discussed. No other forums, no other websites, no billions of Yahoo groups.

What a tool I've been. Oh well. What with the moderator salary, and the per-post bonuses, and the MTP stock options, I just can't afford to stop oppressing people.

EQ, I usually have a great deal of respect for your posts, but the sarcasm in this last one is beneath your usual high standards, and harks back to the days of AMT. I've come to expect better, more civil disagreement on the TMF, especially from the mods. Reading that post is disappointing.

That aside, I notice that the remark is about how much money Footpardise makes, not how much the TMF favorites make. Supertickler, EQ just proved our point.

 

[evilqueen]

Paradise Visions was the example provided. TJProductions isn't in business anymore, so it wouldn't have made as good a joke.

My sarcasm is driven by the non-issue of the discussion. I will now withdraw so you guys can talk amongst yourselves, undisturbed by a different POV.

 

[evilqueen]

Sigh

I won't delete my posts lest I be accused of cover-ups, but on the advice of my physician, who warns me not to engage in sarcasm in hot weather, and my accountant, who reminds me I am in fact not a paid employee of the TMF, I apologize for the uncharacteristically candid nature of my remarks, and any offense they caused. Actually I'm being more playful than words on a screen might suggest, and it isn't my intention to squelch anyone's freedom of expression within the proscribed parameters of this forum, etc. and so on and so forth.

EQ

 

[SuperTickler]

I'm not too much in the mood to continue flogging this dead horse, but I do want to make one comment/observation. I'm getting quite tired of being talked down to as if I'm a child when I post something that a moderator doesn't agree with. I've been around this place for something like 2 years now (going back to the original TMF, before Psycho re-built it as a religious shrine), and I think that anyone reading my posts over time would have to agree that I'm one of the more literate, articulate and fair-minded members of this Forum. When I'm able, I try to inject some quality humor into the proceedings.

It seems that it has almost become a knee-jerk reflex for some moderators to offer insulting sarcasm instead of reasonable discussion whenever anyone criticizes TIB for his sometimes questionable business practices. Let me make one thing clear: I used to be a regular customer of FemFeet/RealTickling/TC and was a big TIB fan. Over time, I have purchased more than 30 of their videos! Multiply that by $40 each (though some were purchased at $29), and you can see how much money I've put into TIB's bank account in the past two-and-a-half years or so. Therefore, I belive I have some credibility when it comes to my opinions. I didn't just one day wake up and think to myself, "Boy, I really hate TIB and am going to take every opportunity to trash him on the TMF." TIB caused my customer dissatisfaction by denying me my right to auction my property on eBay. Pure and simple. Had he not done that, I would still be a happy customer.

I'd also like to point out that the "powers that be" continue to make it seem as if, by criticizing TIB, one is somehow causing disharmony within the "community" (Stalin thought the same way, BTW). What about the people "in the community" who would LIKE to buy a TC video, but can't scrape together the $45-$50 that it takes to get it from TIB? Bidding for videos on eBay enables them to get pre-owned videos at a lower cost. Isn't this a "benefit" to the "community?"

NOTE: This was written prior to seeing EQ's post above.

 

[Myriads]

I see we are off and running again.

Let's see if I can once more anser these.

1) It seems that threads that PRAISE video companies are allowed, and do not close after 2 posts, while legitimate complaints are deleted and/or threads are closed.

Page back through the reviews and you'll see a lot of people saying lots of negative things about a lot of videos. The standard we use is does the poster support their reasons for complaint. "It sucks" will be removed. "It sucks because I think the model was not ticklish" gets to stay. If you criticize (or praise) support your statements. This threads topic doesn't even fall into this case though. It's a post about a problem that one individual is having with one comapany. We like these to be handled off forum, because we are not a consumer action forum. This one was posted and responded to before any of us saw it, so we closed it and moved on. In retrospect we should have deleted it. It would have saved all of us a lot of time and explanation.

2) Seems to me that there have been plenty of flames directed at Gabrielle of Paradise Vision and those posts/threads never seem to get deleted or closed down. Does PV not create tickling content?

Yes they do. And do you know how many posts and threads I've removed flaming PV? I do. About a dozen in the last 5 months. About the same number that I've zapped involving TC and others. I've pulled down about the same number relating to ticklepalice. See, when moderation works you are not even aware of it. Also, we don't see every post. We rely on users to report stuff thats problimatic then we take actions. We find a lot on our own, but not all. See a post the you think is out of bounds? Report it. I don't get reports on PV threads.

3) The Animal Farm comparsion is dead on.

Capitalism, rest in peace.

All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal then others. Is the point that I think you are basing your comment about.

Ummmm yes. SOME ARE. Especially in a private space where someone elses money is paying the bills. That's the very definition of this forum. A private space we invite all of you to come and visit.

The media producers are what keep the TMF alive. They pay our server bills. They provide the material that people come here to view most often. They are the forces that keep us going. Almost every image on the forum was made by a vendor at some point. (The major exceptions beign the wonderful hobby efforts of Prime, and Wall$treet, whom I personaly, in both cases, concider to be community members marked by their generous natures to share material that cost them no small coin for free) but the rest arise from vendors past and present.

We will defend these people. I make a point of it. Without them all this goes away.

What everyone seems to forget is the endless battles that I have waged to keep the discussion forums open to all types of topics, negative opinions and general stuff that is a horror to moderate on a daily basis. What you folks don't see are the times where I or other mods stand up for users and their right to say 'x' about 'y'. About why someone shouldn't be banned. Or why things should be more open. You see none of it. You only see the public closign of threads, the removals. There is no counter 'positive' examples other then the rest of the thousands of posts that are up and about. But no one notices them. After all they are many. And no one ever thinks why a post is still there. Only why one is gone.

Everyone seems to have the opinion that we are all sitting back here running agendas and manipulating posts and so on. Please folks, we are a bunch of people who are giving our time to try and keep this place running with some semblance of civility and order.

Not a single mod makes a cent here. Every minute they spend on the forum working for me is a gift of time. Mostly what they get for their trouble is annoyance and problems, and dislike for making the calls I've directed them to. Almost every mod has told me that they don't have much fun on the forum since they became mods at some point. Everyone who works here is here because they want to be. Not because they are paid.

4) but the sarcasm in this last one is beneath your usual high standards

Yup I agree. That's why I would have edited the post. if EQ had not replied before I posted this. It happens. We are humans who bring our bad days with us to our work here sometimes. Sometimes we get cranky and annoyed at the endless repetative stuff we have to slog through. (one starts to wonder after deleting the 5th adult tickling a minor post of the day does ANYONE read the rules?) And sometimes we take it out in sarcasm. You should see some of the posts I've not placed up. And on occasion I put up one I shouldn't. It happens. We try to fix things like EQ has.

5) PV and the TMF

Long ago in the days of AMT, PV and the folks who back the forum got into what I call, a negative interaction. The results of that interaction continue today. One of the results is that PV doesn't want it's material on the TMF and the TMF doesn't want PV material or employees here. We still provide them with a link in our links page, and leave up reviews and comments abotu thier videos, I remember a rather long and positive thread about 'The Contest'. And yes, we try to give them the same standard of action as all other threads. As I said above, bothered by a comment you see? Report it to me.

I get everything? I think so, if not I'll swing by later and see,

Myriads

 

[evilqueen]

I have never been sarcastic with you before, Supertickler. I have agreed with your stance on a number of issues, and posted to say so. One time you feel spoken down to, and now everything I've said becomes sarcastic? Again, and for good, I withdraw from this discussion.

 

[NYCity]

All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal then others. Is the point that I think you are basing your comment about.

Ummmm yes. SOME ARE. Especially in a private space where someone elses money is paying the bills. That's the very definition of this forum. A private space we invite all of you to come and visit.

The media producers are what keep the TMF alive. They pay our server bills.

Thank you for your candor, Myriads. I think you have summed it up well.

I have made my points and have no intention of belaboring them. I do appreciate what the mods do and that most of what is done is difficult and "behind the scenes". I also suspected that several people, upon become becoming mods, don't seem to be having as much fun because they have to be cops, and adhere to a higher standard etc. and their opinions are more held in check.

If my opinions are stronger than usual here, it's not meant to be disrepectful of anyone, only that I'd like to see everything that makes the TMF great, stay great. And yes, I realize in order for that to happen, the server bills must be paid.

Peace.

 

[Darkknight]

Not even close to the AMT. To a remark made somewhere in this thread.

Geez.

 

[CDFGA]

one Question, Myriads,....

...Do you defend them at our expense?


...I corrected the spelling on 07-23-02

 

[ticklevids]

Re: one Question, Myriads,....

...Do you defend them at out expense?

puhlEEEEEEzzzzeeee....

 

[Myriads]

...Do you defend them at out expense?


I'm assuming that you mean 'our expense'.

I defend all users at expense. Here is how it works:

All posts brought to this place add to the 'wealth' of the community as a whole. Each person or organization brings something of value that some, and or all can learn from. So I tend to feel that every post has a basic value.

When it comes to speach I'm a liberal, I tend to feel that the more there is the better things are. Restrictions are inherently not good.

But the reality of the world, and my ivy tower positions does not always match. What happens when the words of one begin to degrade the 'wealth' of the whole? What happens when the discussion of the few end up causing many to shun the whole and stop addign to the 'wealth'?

So I get faced with moral/ethical choices when it comes to what contributions that I allow. It's my job to see to the health of the whole 'wealth' as a aggregate, not as an individual case by case basis. So I make my calls and actions with on eye on the whole. Thus specific posts do indeed get sacrificed to 'my defense' of the whole.

It cuts both ways. TC is none to thrilled that I tolerate video trading posts that discuss trading or selling originals, or that I let the discussion about their no resale video policy go as long as it did. No company is happy to see me leaving up well written and backed bad reviews. But I do. Contributions of merit that add more to the whole, more then they take out. But when we get into repetitive attacks on companies after points are made, or individuals attack before any reasonable resolution can be made we are looking at contributions that cost the whole more then they add. They get closed or removed.

I'm here to protect every users rights in the form of a defender of the IDEA of creating a place that is a cumulative positive for all users. That is not the same as being here simple for the rights of every user to say whatever. So each users results and feelings of being defended will totaly lie in the type of behavior they bring to the forum. Positivly add and your posts tend to stay.

So, to summerize. When I defend any member it's always at the cost to other ones. It's a connected system. They cannot be seperated. But also remember that the defense works both ways. I defend the members with real complaints also, once it's clear to me that all reasonable and proper channels have been taken and failed.

Be well,
Myriads

 

[Bagelfather]

Re: fer cryin out loud

Take a deep breath, guys. Not everything is a big fat tickling conspiracy.

Oh great, there goes the sequel to that Mel Gibson Movie!

In all seriousness I work for an online retailer and I work with the chargeback department and the charge department. Sometimes banks are just dang DENSE!

We have had several times where an authorization was not removed and the bank blamed us. We had to pull the authorization numbers,dates, times, etc. and then go to two or three people (usually a manager) before they go "oh well here's the problem" and release the hold.

We have had times when Banks show no charge on our end and so we have to go through hoops to give the customer his or her money back.

If you have filed a chargeback already no company should give you the money back until that chargeback (dispute) is cancelled, otherwise there is a double credit and it ALL starts over again!

So my advice is to get the authorization numbers and talk to your BANK... yes YOU the customer talk to your bank in a conference call with Femfeet. For starters the bank will usually do and tell jack and squat since their customer is not on the phone to verify information.

If you were billed twice it is possible that you back spaced and then went back causing yourself to be billed twice.

If there are TWO different charges there has to be two different authorization numbers (get these from Fem Feet, from billpay, Bob Dole, or whomever has it). If the numbers are the SAME... then its the banks fault.

Honestly, errors happen. When the bank realizes the problem they almost always reverse any over draft fees (especially if it is their fault).

Fem Feet cannot and should not be responsible for overdraft fees if they did not cause the error.

So stop waggling swords, get on the phone in a conference call with ALL the information... and if the bank won't help, escalate...escalate ESCALATE to a supervisor.

In cases like this... banks act like big jerks!

Based on years of experiencing dealing with these.


the end

 

[tickler_n_black]

father of bagels!

thanks for understanding our situation and explaining it so well.
your comments were right on target.