Expressing our opinions

[chode]

Steve seems to be the only one with any intelligence in here.

 

[TummyDragon]

Everybody who has posted under this topic has just criticized people for criticizing. Espicially by the way some have quoted others and then stated what they thought. Like I stated earlier, it happens. Try to understand why people criticize before criticizing. Those who criticize with the intent to hurt may have been hurt by criticism. kind of like a bully picking on a person to make himself or herself feel good.

While I can certainly appreciate the point you are making here, Steve, I think we are discussing apples vs oranges. The golden rule is quite unambiguous in both letter and spirit. I also understand that some who criticize are themselves the 'victims' of past harmful criticism, however, this is not the place for healing those prior wounds by inflicting new wounds on others.

The Golden Rule exists so it should be enforced. Otherwise, why bother having the rule?

Take care,
David

 

[TummyDragon]

Steve seems to be the only one with any intelligence in here.

and there it is... a classic example... that's "just your opinion", right?

 

[TMF Jeff]

Just to make something clear, you are certainly free to disagree with whatever policies we have that you want to. But if you're going to use the TMF, you are required to act according to the guidelines we have set up. That includes the Golden Rule requirement of limiting criticism to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. If that's a problem for some people, there are plenty of other websites around for you to go to.

In particular, I don't appreciate yjgfn coming here and saying everyone except him and one other person are the only people with intelligence. If that's how you feel, and if that's the only way you're capable of expressing it, you should feel absolutely free to never come to the TMF again. That way you won't be bothered by people with lesser intelligence's opinions, and we won't be bothered by you being a jerk.

 

[chode]

Actually id call it fact. He honestly is able to look at this entire topic with a point of view that has eluded myself and obviously you as well tummy. So cal it an opinion, or just call me being an asshole for saying, i could care less. I just think what he has said/written makes more sense than the rest of us. Wether he agrees with anything ive said or not.

 

[Stevereeno]

serial criticizers

 

[chode]

I don't appreciate yjgfn coming here and saying everyone except him and one other person are the only people with intelligence.



If you would read the post i never said i was excluded. Infact i praise steeve for being able to look at this from his point of view. When i said "Steve seems to be the only one with any intelligence in here." I dont see anywhere were i put "excluding myself." I obviously included myself in the grand sceem when i used the vocabulary "everyone."

Just because i have a way of saying things it makes you just want to dislike me. So jeff, go ahead, but next time read the small sentence again. I never said i was excluded. And in the last post of steves I'm going to stop this one and this now. None of you agree with me, and i could care less. I may think people are too sensitive and sheltered. Oh well. Am I an asshole? Well i like to think so. But for those who actually know me on a personal level, thats who counts. And there are quite a few people from this forum who know me and get along great with me. From tickle video producers to lukers, to other assholes, and happy go lucky type. Thats what matters most i suppose. Im going to go learn about that ignore option.......

 

[TMF Jeff]

Am I an asshole? Well i like to think so.

If it makes you happy to be an asshole, knock yourself out. But you aren't welcome to ACT like an asshole here on the TMF is the central point of this thread.

 

[chode]

Nah, opionions was the topic if i read correctly. Not wether or not i am or can be an asshole.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

Actually, i think the core issue TD was getting at was being able to express your opinion without insulting others. Not a difficult chore, but one that sometimes you have to take a second to think about.

 

[etwoods]

Bottom Line

Bottom line is this is a forum that does not allow freedom of speech. This is a forum that has a rule that says say whatever you want just so it is not mean. So if there is anyone here who has thoughts that are anything less than very nice then you had better leave because you will be banned anyways. I guess since there is no fee involved with viewing this site that the person who foots the bill can do whatever he or she wants. I personally don't care just so the people that have the power don't try to pass this site off as some wonderful place where all are welcome because that is hardly the case here.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

all are welcome, so long as they follow the rules. Your welcome to disagree with something or somebody, just express yourself in a controlled way, without insult. Thats all.

 

[Mitchell]

As has been discussed before, the TMF is a private site. Jeff as it's owner, and Myriads as it's Tzar, and forum manager, can set any rules they want. We as chatters might not agree with them, but to be here we have to abide by them. It would be like a smoker going into a non smoker's house where no smoking was allowed, and lighting up. Doing such would be against the rules in that house, and they would be asked to put out their smoking material, or leave.
While I have been accused in the past of being a "mod suck up", especially by some of the troublemakers, that is not true. This is how I see it. Many times, Iam either attacked personally in a thread, or I see something posted, and I just want to go off and erupt all over either the person who attacked me, or the person who posted a subject that I despise or disagree with. I contain myself, because my membership here is very important to me, and I refuse to allow any one poster, or subject, to bait me into fighting, where I'll get tossed. I wont harrass any girls to jepordize this, and I wont cross the line with any posters to do it. Being here is the main purpose for me, and whatever I have to do to contain myself, to keep my membership in tact, is what I will do. I may not agree with it, or like it, but as this is a private site, I have to, to remain here as an active member.
Taking myself out of it, I completely agree 100% with something Jeff said in this thread. People, whoever they are, shouldnt use this site as a place to come and act like scumbags, and maybe let out all their agression here for what else is happening to them in their lives. Those who know me well know my story, but for those who dont, in the last year especially, I have lost two businesses, and my relationship with my father, am dealing with a sick mother, as Iam trying to build a 3rd business. I might come on here and discuss my frustrations with my friends, but I dont come here and let out my agressions for 100 other problems in my life to innocent people. Jeff doesnt need that, nor do the mods, or the chatters. People who come here to let out agressions for other things, or who just like to be jerks, shouldnt be here. While the world is often not a nice place, it is Jeff and Myriads goal to make the TMF as civil as possible. This is a sex fetish site, people, and sometimes I think it gets way too intense. I come here to have fun, and to escape the other bullshit I deal with in my other life. Maybe if we looked at this as an escape, and a place to chat and have fun, it would be more enjoyable for all. As for why people come here to act like asses, I dont know. If it is to be a jerk for no reason, thats' wrong, and if it is to let out frustration at others for other problems in one's life, that is wrong as well.
Overall, the positives outweigh the negatives here, which is why I stay. I have met some truly good friends in my 2 1-2 years here. To me, if you can say the positives outweigh the negatives, and you enjoy something, that is a reason for staying. This is how I can describe my feelings about most of the people and the site TMF, and this is why I've stayed for 2 1-2 years.

Mitch

 

[ticklkitten]

Nah, opionions was the topic if i read correctly. Not wether or not i am or can be an asshole.

But I think that by being an "asshole" you are violating the Golden Rule here. You CAN'T say whatever you want here... this place isn't owned by you. We can criticize as long as it is useful and doesn't do harm. We all have opinions but we must keep them to ourselves unless they are helpful to another. Just the way it goes here. It's a good thing it's an easy rule for me to follow and if the mods think I am getting out of hand I gladly accept them stepping in to admonish me.

 

[Wicker Man]

Im always careful when it comes to opinions unless theyre about something very harmless. The reason is that people very seldom want to hear the uncut truth. Why do you think these politicians get elected every year? If people wanted the truth theyd just stay home on election day instead of buying into laughable slogans like the ones these elected leaders throw out to the public. Just my two cents, not better than anyone elses opinion. 😀

 

[Mitchell]

I think the one area where it gets dicey in regard to personal as opposed to general criticism is the P and R. I dont post there anymore, but when I used to, I was the subject of much criticism by one person in particular who I will not name, because it is both rude to do so, and he is now a good friend. If an issue gets heated, or such, or someone says to me:" Mitch is narrow sighted when it comes to voting for John Kerry, because Bush offers this, this, and this." That type of post, while I might not agree with it, is still on topic of why my Republican friend, or even bosom "enemy", as I like to call certain people jokingly, in a friendly and even jokingly sarcastic manner, is expressing his opinion about why I should vote Bush. I have had huge differences with two people in the P and R who I consider good friends, but never once did any of us cross the line of personally attacking each other in doing so. I know they basicially like me, and I basically like them. We are supportive to each other on other issues besides politics, and what I have done to try and diffuse the situation with them, both for the good of them, my friendship with them, and myself, is to post little or not at all in the P and R. Politics is a strange thing, it can turn friends into enemies, and as long as someone doesnt attack me personally, and say they think I'm an asshole or troublemaker in general, because that is never my intent, I dont have a problem with someone saying Iam narrow minded in voting for Kerry, because, maybe in reality, from a Republicans opinion, that may be true. I have my reasons to vote for Kerry, just as my Republican friends have their reasons to vote for Bush. A very valid opinion, and not one I take personally. I have learned that over the course of time since the last election.
What I dont like, and what is good that Jeff cracks down on here, is when someone says:" You're an asshole just because, or, you post on every subject, or you write too many stories. The fact is, as long as I am not violating the GR, I have a right to post my views here. If you dont like my views, ignore me, there are some on this site who I ignore because I dont like their views, but for someone to suggest:" Dont post because you are an asshole, and have nothing constructive to say" That to me is wrong, and a post like that shows they have nothing constructive to say.
Bottom line, in a forum of tens of thousands of members, no one is going to agree with everyone. Understanding and respecting everyone else's rights is key. I can honestly say in 2 1-2 years that I dont think I have ever posted something to intentionally belittle others. They might not agree, but never did I say:" John or Joan Smith is an asshole" That is against rules, and wrong, and I agree with kitten, we need to freely speak, while respecting others. If posters remembered that when they posted their material, the TMF serves to work much better, and the mods will spend more time just chilling, and less time having to discipline certain posters.

Mitch

 

[Wicker Man]

Hey Mitchell and Ticklekitten...ive never been in the P and R room and I like you both! 😀

 

[TummyDragon]

Heya Mitch,
Yeah, I can see where you are coming from.

I'll be the first to admit that sometimes when I read certain posts by various individuals, it takes every single atom of will power I can muster up not to snap reactively, and type a reply saying "god almighty, you are a complete freakin' IDIOT" (and undoubtedly there have been many who have wanted to say that to me as well).

I think one habit that helps me to avoid ever actually typing in something that would violate the GR, is to click "next thread" as rapidly as I can. I never post a response out of reflex or reaction. I'll move on, and then after the reaction impulse to scream "IDIOT" has subsided, I can then make a well thought out (arguable I'm sure) response addressing the post and not the person.

It's like Cos mentioned earlier, it takes a little thought to word a post in a manner that conveys a message without being St. TummyDragon, his Royal AssHoliness, (doing the Sign of the.. oh nevermind). But with a little patience, less reactionary impulse, and a modicum of forethought, opinions can be shared and expanded upon without violating the space of others.

 

[steph]

Really well said Tummy!

XOXO

 

[Mitchell]

Thank you, Wickerman. I like you too!😀 It is probably unfair of me to blame the whole P and R, because the P and R, like the rest of this site, is well intended, and many people who post there, even with whose views I differ with, have legitimate views, and post legitimate feelings, and sources, that differ from mine. I accept that, if they do so in a well intending way just to be different, and not to attack anyone. I just feel it best to stay away, because the subject matter is such where the feeling and posts can have the potential to get heated, as we all have our justified passionate feelings about politics, regardless of our views.

Mitch

 

[drew70]

The Golden Rule is futile, in my opinion, and it's definition is lost in ambiguity. On the one hand, we're told it's okay to disagree as long as it's done with respect. On the other hand we're told that everything we say must be positive, constructive, and keeping to the topic of the thread as set by the original post. These two prime directives can clash with each other in many instances.

For example, let's say Frank starts a thread by saying that feathers are the best way in which to tickle, and maybe gives some examples from personal experience. Joe reads the thread and thinks to himself, 'That's bullshit. Long nails are best!' Now Joe would prefer to be able to say it like that, but knows if he does, he'll get bleeped. So instead he says, "Gee, I don't know, Frank. Feathers don't tickle nearly as much as people think. Long nails are far more effective, in my opinion."

That sounds pretty innocent and sociable doesn't it? Yet by TMF standards this is a Golden Rule violation on two counts. First, by contradicting Frank outright, he is being neither constructive, positive, nor supportive of the original post. He is in fact saying the exact opposite, that feathers are not the best way in which to tickle. The second violation comes when he mentions "long nails," which is not mentioned at all in the first post and is therefore by TMF standards, "Off Topic." In order for for Joe to "legally" make his point, he has to start a new thread promoting the benefits of tickling with long nails, to which the only people who can legally reply are those that agree with him.

The bottom line to all this is that the administration has done their best to define the rules on paper, but the reality is that there will always be some way to work around such "legalities," and make your insults more indirectly, with more subtlety. So to try and supercede such tactics the administrators will say not to violate the "spirit" of the Golden Rule, and this is where it gets really ambiguous. "Don't piss people off," seems to be the general message. But what pisses off Frank, might not piss off Joe or Glenn. So in order to be sure nobody gets pissed you find yourself inventing opinions you don't even have. The result is that you never know if somebody says what they really think or if they are just bending to conform to the Golden Rule.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

i think your over complicating it drew. it's pretty simple. Don't intentionaly antagonize or insult people. Your right in the sense that some people will be insulted by very simple things, but thats where the mods can step in. They take a look at the post that was made and see if there was any obviously offensive remarks posted. If they find none, then they might take a look at the posters history, ie, if there a problem poster, have conflicts with the person there addressing, etc. Then, from there they can make their choice. I don't think anybody has to bend or conform. Just give there posts a few minutes of thought, and if need be several minutes to get a cool head to make it. Or, they can simply not make a post at all.

 

[chode]

drew70


I have to say you put that pretty well. From the movie forest gump

"Gump, your a god damn genius!"
Inserct drew for gump. Not sarcasm either. Just smart words on his part. And i dont think i spelled genius correctly, something just doesnt look right about it to me for some reason.


And it also comes down to certain people being able to say what they want, and then when its rebuted, it magically dissapears. Thats a p@#$% way out i think. An opinion. And as it was said earlier, if you dont like it or how i put it so bluntly, dont read anywhere i post. Not that all i say is offensive, in fact it only seems that a small insignificant hand full dont like some things i say. Well, thats fine.
This is an unending thread thats going to go no where. Another opinion. Do all of you like that opinion, it doesnt matter. If i was looking to win a popularity contest i would be up all your asses agreeing with anything and everything you said. So dissagree till your hearts content, or put down what i have written, to me this is a closed subject. Im agreeing to dissagree and to me thats good enough. Down the road will i say something you dont like? Its a possibility. But im not going to be walking on eggshells.

 

[Mitchell]

Drew, I think in all honesty, you make sense in what you say in your post. This is how I see it.
The fact is, that no matter what someone says in a post, or how nicely they put it, we all have strong beliefs and opinions. Some of us might take a look at a post, and say:"Yah, that person is right on and bullseye. Good For Him/Her." While, conversely, another person might take a look at the very same post and say:" What the heck is that person thinking, and how can she/he think that?" The reality is, that no matter what is posted, people are going to have opinions of it for and against. While the post itself might not be attacking, the opinion is still there, and, as such, there are going to be people who agree, or disagree.
Agreeing or disagreeing isnt what bothers me. If someone says something like:" Mitch, please examine or look at things from the other side of the coin, because it seems like you are posting in favor of the Democrats, without looking at the whole picture, or all sides, and it can also be seen this way" That to me is a decent and constructive criticism of a poster. I have gotten into this issue with a couple of posters on here, and I have no problem with such. If someone, on the other hand, posts something like:" Mitch is a total fucking asshole, because all he does is rip Bush all day, and he doesnt know what the fuck he's talking about, why doesnt he get a brain." Or something of the sort, that to me is an absolute attack of me with no basis for constructive discussion. If someone wants to think I'm an troublemaker, that is their peroggative, but by posting such and attacking, they are opening up discussion where others may think they are a troublemaker. This may not be the intent, but it can happen.
This is why even though I may post controversial opinions on here that many dont agree with, I always try to stick to the topic, and not attack someone directly. I realize that many on here dont share my views, and that is cool, but I respect the fact that they have different viewpoints than me, and I have different viewpoints then them.
I do agree with one poster on here who said we can spin this all day and not get anywhere. It's like a dog chasing it's tail. I have a friend's mother who is of the philisophy that she has the right to express opinions about anyone or anything in this world, no matter whether they affect her or not. She rips everyone, her son, her daughter, me, and so many others. This is primarially, I think, because she is a miserably unhappy person who has to take the spotlight off herself, by ripping others. Her son and daughter tell her:" Mom, shut up, you dont have the right to express opinions about others, if their actions or life arent affecting you emotionally or financially" The woman wont listen. As a result, I dont talk to her, her daughter, son in law, and grandchildren despise her, and her son, while he sees her, has negative feelings about her. She would have been banned from here a long time ago, as she loves to personally attack others.
Sometimes, while it may seem pointless, it is just good to vent on these issues. We could have 1000 posts in this thread, and have 1000 differing opinions, and never agree. Do I expect everyone to agree with me, and to embrace my view point all of the time? Certainly not. Do I expect that people in their heads might think I'm way off base, and even a jerk, yes. Do I expect for people to post on here things like" Mitch is a jerk,dont talk to him, because he is this or that." That is where I draw the line. I have people on here that I dont like, have severe differences with, and never talk to, but I would never do so, first because it is against rules, and second, Iam of the belief that everyone has to experience others for themselves. If John Smith doesnt like me, there might be ten people who think he's a great guy, and ten people who think I'm an asshole. If I dont like Terry Jones, 100 people might think he's an asshole, and 100 who think I'm a great guy. My motto is, we all are different, and each individual should experience that person for themselves, which is why I never, in addition to following rules on here, rip anyone personally. Everyone has a right to experience others for themselves, and form their own opinions. That I believe, is an important concept of this forum. End of Sermon.

Mitch

 

[ticklkitten]

You know how much I adore you Mitchell but I think this guy isn't in the mood to listen to anyone but himself. Oh well. You stated your thoughts very eloquently though and I respect everything you believe in. Good job.