for those who think "Gangsta" is cool

[primetime]

uh, not quite. this thread IS about gangsta rap, not the gangsta lifestyle. the originator of this thread pointed out the music by making references to 2pac and Old Dirty Bastard. had this only been about gangwarfare ONLY, then this thread would have a much different tone. no one has posted they condone gang violence. the debate is whether "gangsta rap" is the reason for the senseless killings.

rap is NOT the reason for the violence that goes on. like countless other posters have said, the gang violence and senseless killings would have been going on even if gangsta rap didnt exist. it is a lifestyle and economic well being that is causing the destructive lifestyle. people who do not like "gangsta rap" point out things like the gang violence and lifestyles. unless you are actually in it, you will not understand why these senseless killings occur.

rap is mainstream now. why? if it was so "bad" and so "evil", why has it hit mainstream levels where even suburban white kids are jamming to 50 cent? the theory that this music causes kids to emulate the lifestyle is bullshit, because i dont see these same white suburban kids acting out drive by shootings and such. you usually see poor minority kids acting out the violence. when i made the point of the Columbine killings and Richard Ramirez, it was to point out that it is NOT the music that caused them to do what they did. i can easily say Ozzy Osbourne caused Ramirez to kill because Ramirez was inspired by the music. but that's not the case is it? same with gang warefare. 50 cent is not the reason why there is gang violence today.

get it straight Oddjob, if you want to talk about the ills of society and why young kids are carrying out senseless acts of violence, then feel free. but the music is NOT the reason why they are doing so. because again, why arent the white kids, who listen to the same rap music, not acting like their minority counterparts who are acting out violence? after all, they are listening and watching the SAME thing.

 

[Volcom]

My god, whoever started this thread is quite obviously a complete tool.
I think theres a large distinction between dressing 'Gangsta' and liking things to do with that lifestyle, and child murder.
It's like Marilyn Manson getting the blame for the Columbine school shootings, reactionist bullshit!

 

[Oddjob0226]

Well once again I had written a very long but absolutely brilliant post and accidentally hit "Paste" instead of "Copy" in the pulldown menu to do a spellcheck, so I have lost everything and I am cursing Bill Gates mightily at the moment.

The short version:

It's not about the music causing anything, but if modern gangsta rappers use their music to sell a lifestyle or subculture (what the first post is about, the lifestyle), then the music is indeed a link to criminal behavior, specifically the creator of the music selling and living the image with his fans emulating said image, as all pop stars become emulated to some degree. At this moment in time no other modern form of music has this link to random violence on such a large scale. A guy who has Thug Life tattooed on his body (labeling himself ) with a gun down his pants, giving a gang sign, while selling millions of albums - he's a rapper after all, not a plumber - who is praised by his most intent fans as Jesus: The Return not only raps about the gangsta life but lives it, there's a connection there. If no one knew who he was, it wouldn't make a difference. If he rapped one way & lived another it wouldn't make a difference. If you live a certain way and sell it, then continue the culture because you have to "be real", well, there you go. A connection.

The music of Janis Joplin & Jefferson Airplane didn't cause people to O.D. on heroin or jump out of windows on an LSD high. But to deny that these people were a certain way, lived a certain way and the music was the main link to the public which conveyed this idea isn't accurate. The music does nothing more than stimulate emotional response. But to say there is absolutely no connection, flat out, it's-all-in-your-head, to a certain lifestyle or subculture is erroneous.

Rap origins in Jamaica and gangsta problems there... Oi music and skinheads..... white people listing to rap & the upswing in meth cooking & resulting prostitution ... discovering the subculture vs. being born and raised into it. Gangsta Easy E having 8 kids then dying of AIDS..... Ozzy sings "hail Satan" But tells his kids don't do drugs or you'll end up like me being a lifestyle, vs. 50 rapping about violence, selling the image and then living it also being an image. Damn, it would have been a great post! The lesson - type only when you are not sleepy.

 

[ticklishbbw]

They have no obligaton...I have no obligation..Neither do you!

Why are us "ordinary people" required to standards of behavior and these "entertainers" don't have to subscribe to?

That's just it....they aren't required, and neither are we. Who says you or I have to go out and become a good example to my kids, or my neighbors kids? Nobody! I choose to do that because I was raised that way. However, I have no obligation be a role model for other peoples children, or an upstanding citizen anymore than than rap artists, actors, or athletes. If you feel that famous people are required to be a role model, then that is because you place a lot of emphasis on wealth and celebrity.

I also find it interesting that you only talk about rap music. How about that evils country music? You know, the music that glorifies getting drunk, bar fights and beating your wife. There's some good wholesome values for you! There is violence in many types of music, not just rap. Is it really the music you don't like, or the "people" who make the music ?

If you don't like rap music...it's easy, don't listen to it, don't let your kids listen to it. However, just because you don't like the music, or the lifestyle of the people who perform it, don't try and blame societys ills on the music!

tbbw

 

[Oddjob0226]

Good points here.... we should all accept people being machine gunned in the streets and assume that,if by the odd chance societies ills DO come from somewhere and aren't just randomly generated by chaos theory, probabaly Cece Winans had something to do with the shootings. Or Beck! Two turn tables and a microphone indeed, Beckster....

Country songs that promote beating up women? Is that a popular subculture gaining more acceptance now, on which a billion dollar industry is based? I'll have to check out some Wynona Judd or Cowboy Troy a little more closely, dang.

 

[kis123]

That's just it....they aren't required, and neither are we. Who says you or I have to go out and become a good example to my kids, or my neighbors kids? Nobody! I choose to do that because I was raised that way. However, I have no obligation be a role model for other peoples children, or an upstanding citizen anymore than than rap artists, actors, or athletes. If you feel that famous people are required to be a role model, then that is because you place a lot of emphasis on wealth and celebrity.

I also find it interesting that you only talk about rap music. How about that evils country music? You know, the music that glorifies getting drunk, bar fights and beating your wife. There's some good wholesome values for you! There is violence in many types of music, not just rap. Is it really the music you don't like, or the "people" who make the music ?

If you don't like rap music...it's easy, don't listen to it, don't let your kids listen to it. However, just because you don't like the music, or the lifestyle of the people who perform it, don't try and blame societys ills on the music!

tbbw

I don't like gangsta rap, I don't listen to it, I don't spend one cent of my hard-earned money on it, and I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are!

If you read my previous post to primetime, I don't have familiarity to the other genres of music (including country) so I'm not at much liberty to discuss things I'm not familiar with!

You're completely deluding yourself if you truly believe that the music doesn't have anything to do with the lifestyle. These guys (and ladies) not only have rap careers, they have clothing lines, shoes, movies, Grand Theft Auto video games and the like. They are all over society-that's why so many kids emulate. They don't all strap and shoot! They don't all think women are bi**hes and ho's! They don't all indulge in drugs! But there are some who do-those are the ones this thread was originated about!

And my children are familiar with the music, but don't spend one dime on it for their personal use. They know that it's basically garbage lyrics set to music and don't think it's worth their investment. If more children were like them, we wouldn't have child-on-child crime and human life would have more value than it does to some.

And what's wrong with being a good example for children today, especially those who need it the most? Would it kill the ones whose money is made by the public to have a tiny sense of public service? I'm still waiting for the answer to that one other than "they don't have to do it and no one should expect them to" answers I have been getting around here.

When this thread has reached it's interest, all is said and done, the smoke settles and dust clears, guess what? You'll be still listening to your gangsta rap, and I'll be listening to something I consider more tasteful.

 

[kis123]

Well once again I had written a very long but absolutely brilliant post and accidentally hit "Paste" instead of "Copy" in the pulldown menu to do a spellcheck, so I have lost everything and I am cursing Bill Gates mightily at the moment.

The short version:

It's not about the music causing anything, but if modern gangsta rappers use their music to sell a lifestyle or subculture (what the first post is about, the lifestyle), then the music is indeed a link to criminal behavior, specifically the creator of the music selling and living the image with his fans emulating said image, as all pop stars become emulated to some degree. At this moment in time no other modern form of music has this link to random violence on such a large scale. A guy who has Thug Life tattooed on his body (labeling himself ) with a gun down his pants, giving a gang sign, while selling millions of albums - he's a rapper after all, not a plumber - who is praised by his most intent fans as Jesus: The Return not only raps about the gangsta life but lives it, there's a connection there. If no one knew who he was, it wouldn't make a difference. If he rapped one way & lived another it wouldn't make a difference. If you live a certain way and sell it, then continue the culture because you have to "be real", well, there you go. A connection.

The music of Janis Joplin & Jefferson Airplane didn't cause people to O.D. on heroin or jump out of windows on an LSD high. But to deny that these people were a certain way, lived a certain way and the music was the main link to the public which conveyed this idea isn't accurate. The music does nothing more than stimulate emotional response. But to say there is absolutely no connection, flat out, it's-all-in-your-head, to a certain lifestyle or subculture is erroneous.

Funny, you can say this and go on to the next thread. I make similar statements and have my head handed to me. Hmmmm.....interesting!

The fact of the matter is the music supports and condones a lifestyle. No one seems to have a problem with the sale, but when a child is murdered because of the lifestyle, then the perpetrators scatter! Sorry, the door shouldn't swing both ways. But it seems like many people like swinging and revolving doors.

 

[ShadowTklr]

Funny, you can say this and go on to the next thread. I make similar statements and have my head handed to me. Hmmmm.....interesting!

You should seek out alliances with people like me and Prime, Kis. There is strength in numbers. 🙂

 

[kis123]

You should seek out alliances with people like me and Prime, Kis. There is strength in numbers. 🙂

There have been many areas where we've been agreement in the past. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the side of the fence you're on)we all have an area of discussion where we're simply not going to agree. This happens to be one of them.

Carry on!

 

[ticklishbbw]

And my children are familiar with the music, but don't spend one dime on it for their personal use. They know that it's basically garbage lyrics set to music and don't think it's worth their investment. If more children were like them, we wouldn't have child-on-child crime and human life would have more value than it does to some.

You just made the point I've talking about. You taught your kids that the things written about in some rap music is bad. If they hear the music, they aren't going out and joining a gang or entering into a life of crime. Why? Because you've taught them right from wrong. You've instilled YOUR values in them.

And what's wrong with being a good example for children today, especially those who need it the most? Would it kill the ones whose money is made by the public to have a tiny sense of public service? I'm still waiting for the answer to that one other than "they don't have to do it and no one should expect them to" answers I have been getting around here.

I've already answered this. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just not an obligation, not yours, not mine, not anybody's. Would it kill them? No, but who are we to expect famous people to teach our children values? I'd prefer to do that myself.

When this thread has reached it's interest, all is said and done, the smoke settles and dust clears, guess what? You'll be still listening to your gangsta rap, and I'll be listening to something I consider more tasteful.

I completely, agree, and after rap music is no longer mainstream, guess what, drive by shootings will still happen. There will still be gang violence etc. What music, movie or celebrity will it get blamed on then? You're deluding yourself (to use your term) if you think that eliminating a type of music will heal the world.

I'll end this with the same thought my first post had. If parents did their job...paid attention to their kids, taught them right from wrong, if our government had the family as a priority (supporting day care for example) we wouldn't have these types of incidents. As another poster said, rap music, or any popular music, is a reflection of what is going on in society. Fix that, and maybe the popular music will change to something you find "more tasteful."


tbbw

 

[ShadowTklr]

Good points here.... we should all accept people being machine gunned in the streets and assume that,if by the odd chance societies ills DO come from somewhere and aren't just randomly generated by chaos theory, probabaly Cece Winans had something to do with the shootings. Or Beck! Two turn tables and a microphone indeed, Beckster....

Country songs that promote beating up women? Is that a popular subculture gaining more acceptance now, on which a billion dollar industry is based? I'll have to check out some Wynona Judd or Cowboy Troy a little more closely, dang.

Hi Oddjob. First, I'd like to compliment you on your previous post. It was a well thought out and well written post.

However, when I attempt to rationalize your extrapolation of a direct link between rap music and gang violence, your argument tends to peter out, despite its passion. You're attempting to use resulting violence relevant to increased gang activity which has been on a steady incline for 25 years before gangsta rap, and make it corollary to only 15 years worth of Gangsta Rap music. I'm sorry, but that's a non-contender. I know you have spent a great deal of time and energy composing your perspective, but you must bear in mind that arguments of this nature should possess reasonable relative information to form a solid argument. Yours skips around too much, and omits too many other, more specific, and proven influential factors.

Long story short, you can vie all day for your position on this one, but you can't make a plausible argument because the data is contrary to your personal opinion.

I would suggest doing some more research on cause and affect of gang related activity, the decline of social norms in inner cities, educational breakdowns among minority populations, housing, environment, real estate pigeon holing, district rezoning, budget allocations to police precincts in inner city communities, minority joblessness, and a few other factors that are much more worthy of interpretation in relation to gang violence and crime, than rap music ever was, or will be.

When you are familiar with those things, you will be able to speak much more specifically (and intelligently) about gang relatd violence, and with that knowledge, you will automatically rank rap music in its rightful place on the list of relative effects, right at the bottom, where it belongs.

 

[ShadowTklr]

There have been many areas where we've been agreement in the past. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the side of the fence you're on)we all have an area of discussion where we're simply not going to agree. This happens to be one of them.

Carry on!

I've never been known not to carry on. But, as I said, this isn't a matter of agreement. There are some things which are intrinsically true, and then there are opinions. Try reading my previous post to Oddjob and see if that helps.

 

[ShadowTklr]

You just made the point I've talking about. You taught your kids that the things written about in some rap music is bad. If they hear the music, they aren't going out and joining a gang or entering into a life of crime. Why? Because you've taught them right from wrong. You've instilled YOUR values in them.

I've already answered this. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just not an obligation, not yours, not mine, not anybody's. Would it kill them? No, but who are we to expect famous people to teach our children values? I'd prefer to do that myself.

I completely, agree, and after rap music is no longer mainstream, guess what, drive by shootings will still happen. There will still be gang violence etc. What music, movie or celebrity will it get blamed on then? You're deluding yourself (to use your term) if you think that eliminating a type of music will heal the world.

I'll end this with the same thought my first post had. If parents did their job...paid attention to their kids, taught them right from wrong, if our government had the family as a priority (supporting day care for example) we wouldn't have these types of incidents. As another poster said, rap music, or any popular music, is a reflection of what is going on in society. Fix that, and maybe the popular music will change to something you find "more tasteful."


tbbw

Hi Ticklish. Great post, and I very much agree with everything you said. I think you have synopsized that wonderfully.

 

[ShadowTklr]

uh, not quite. this thread IS about gangsta rap, not the gangsta lifestyle. the originator of this thread pointed out the music by making references to 2pac and Old Dirty Bastard. had this only been about gangwarfare ONLY, then this thread would have a much different tone. no one has posted they condone gang violence. the debate is whether "gangsta rap" is the reason for the senseless killings.

rap is NOT the reason for the violence that goes on. like countless other posters have said, the gang violence and senseless killings would have been going on even if gangsta rap didnt exist. it is a lifestyle and economic well being that is causing the destructive lifestyle. people who do not like "gangsta rap" point out things like the gang violence and lifestyles. unless you are actually in it, you will not understand why these senseless killings occur.

rap is mainstream now. why? if it was so "bad" and so "evil", why has it hit mainstream levels where even suburban white kids are jamming to 50 cent? the theory that this music causes kids to emulate the lifestyle is bullshit, because i dont see these same white suburban kids acting out drive by shootings and such. you usually see poor minority kids acting out the violence. when i made the point of the Columbine killings and Richard Ramirez, it was to point out that it is NOT the music that caused them to do what they did. i can easily say Ozzy Osbourne caused Ramirez to kill because Ramirez was inspired by the music. but that's not the case is it? same with gang warefare. 50 cent is not the reason why there is gang violence today.

get it straight Oddjob, if you want to talk about the ills of society and why young kids are carrying out senseless acts of violence, then feel free. but the music is NOT the reason why they are doing so. because again, why arent the white kids, who listen to the same rap music, not acting like their minority counterparts who are acting out violence? after all, they are listening and watching the SAME thing.

Wonderfully put, Prime. Your point about white suburban kids not acquiescing to the lures of violence as a result of listening to Gangsta Rap was right on the money.

 

[kis123]

You just made the point I've talking about. You taught your kids that the things written about in some rap music is bad. If they hear the music, they aren't going out and joining a gang or entering into a life of crime. Why? Because you've taught them right from wrong. You've instilled YOUR values in them.



I've already answered this. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just not an obligation, not yours, not mine, not anybody's. Would it kill them? No, but who are we to expect famous people to teach our children values? I'd prefer to do that myself.


I completely, agree, and after rap music is no longer mainstream, guess what, drive by shootings will still happen. There will still be gang violence etc. What music, movie or celebrity will it get blamed on then? You're deluding yourself (to use your term) if you think that eliminating a type of music will heal the world.

I'll end this with the same thought my first post had. If parents did their job...paid attention to their kids, taught them right from wrong, if our government had the family as a priority (supporting day care for example) we wouldn't have these types of incidents. As another poster said, rap music, or any popular music, is a reflection of what is going on in society. Fix that, and maybe the popular music will change to something you find "more tasteful."


tbbw

I'm sorry, we're going around the world with this one. Neither of us intend to move from our initial position. I believe that for those who have no one else to emulate and are parked in front of tv's for 24 hrs/day, someone should step to the plate especially when they can afford it. But why do that when you can continue to exploit it? Some of these kids actually take to heart what they've been seeing and hearing as reality. What happens to them? Continue to ride-n-die by homicide? When does it stop? Not all parents are going to raise their children properly no matter what the circumstances. Those again, are the ones committing the crimes, not mainstream society!

Why glamorize and glorify violence? Why make disrespecting and demeaning women attractive? Why even sing about 90% of the crap they even sing about? It's the money-all about the Benjamins! No concern for the very ones they're singing about! And that goes for any music genre that does it as well-wouldn't want to be accuse of leaving them out, would I?

No one has really addressed my main question, so it obviously bears repeating:

What happens to the kids this music is affecting? What happens to the future drives and Columbines waiting to happen? Do they just continue to slip through the cracks? Do rappers and other "musicians" continue to exploit them with their gang-banging fantasies?

I'll answer it myself-obviously it's okay as long as you do it to a "funky" beat!

 

[kis123]

Wonderfully put, Prime. Your point about white suburban kids not acquiescing to the lures of violence as a result of listening to Gangsta Rap was right on the money.

No, they're so much better off since they can afford the drugs and booze many of them use! Poverty makes news, rich kids on a violent spree rarely does.

 

[primetime]

No, they're so much better off since they can afford the drugs and booze many of them use! Poverty makes news, rich kids on a violent spree rarely does.

again, these suburban kids are not acting violently like their minority counterparts. yet, both groups can use drugs and treat women like shit. but, these white kids are not driving around participating in drive by shootings are they? yet, they "jam" to 50 cent, 2pac and such. why the difference? maybe, just maybe, it's NOT the music that causes violence, it could be the socioeconomic status of the listeners......stop blaming the music....it is a personal responsibility to do what is right and what is wrong.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Are people just reading pieces of my posts and jumping around through them randomly, like a bullet from a Glock? The music doesn't cause the violence, but to deny that there may be a factoring influence in an endless blue print of how to be a thug being sold to young kids who don't have the guidance or training to realize it's just a song (the bigger issue we ALL agree on) is wrong; it is, in fact, exploitation. There are bigger issues at hand, true, but for what's recently being called "ghetto millionaires" (people who are rich on paper, but then the money is gone in 12 months. Usually to an agent or record company exec, be it Richard Geffen or Suge Knight) these people want to be ganstas to sell records. Once they sell the records, to sell more, to be taken as "real", they keep enacting this gansta persona. And younger, dumber kids take it to heart.

In the old days, when the "Cribs" of So. CA became the "Crips" due to a misprint in the LA Times and the gangs formed to protect the denizens of the neighborhoods from outsiders started spreading out, following the money trail of cheap guns and drugs, the likes of Ice-T, Ice Cube, and even non-gangstas like Chuck D rapped about what they saw and experienced in their rundown neighborhoods neglected so long by the mainstream. They were story tellers who for better or worse lived the life. They were real and accurate. Slowly, some of the older Gs who now have kids and don't want to see them in the grave like so many they grew up with, are getting away from the thug life. They're still hard, but they've pulled back from the violence. That, and a combination of parental involvement, community awareness and police taking a proactive instead of reactive role in neighborhoods across the U.S. have slowed the violence.

Then you get these new bloods, who purposely repeat history and don't care. They didn't come up through the gangs, drugs and violence and rap about it because it was life; they came up through it (maybe), saw the above alternative, but decided to rap about the lesser things in life because it was a cool way for a young brother to be real and could lead to a big payday. Part of making that big payday is by living the life, then labeling & packaging it and selling it to teens looking for an identity. I don't necessarily like what Ice-T did in the pat, but I respect his survival instinct and appreciate that he's still being true to his hard self while not acting a fool in the streets. 50 and others like him, they look at T, Easy E, Scott La Rock, learn nothing from the past, and act a role to the point of death, and franchise it to kids dumber than they are who are looking for something to identify with. It seems borderline unholy that an old schooler like Jam Master Jay could be killed by what appears to be one of these newbies.

Oi music. The National Front in England existed before Oi music. But once punk and ska mutated to form Oi music in the late 70s-early 80s, for whatever reason, neo-Nazi skinheads took it as their own. There were all kinds of skins, racial and non, and all kids of Oi bands, racial and non, but whenever a white power message was to be conveyed to the youth of the underclass, the Oi bands was how it went out. Groups of white supremacist kids would create Oi bands expressly for the purpose of musically espousing their views. The failure of the family, the failing infrastructure, the joblessness, and plain old teenage male machismo all had a hand in the racial riots and street violence of the young people of England, but there was a certain type of violence, and a subculture of young men and women who were always and predictably in the middle of it. Because of this, most Oi bands died out except the neo-Nazi bands. So there is even a precedent for gansta life being represented & promoted in a musical form. But even then, philosophically, the skins involved with the Oi bands made the music because of their beliefs; they weren't living a life, selling a life and moving others towards that life for something as transparent as street cred and profit.

As far as whitey listing to rap but not living the gansta lifestyle, I know I'm not the only one seeing the increase in meth labs and addiction in rural and suburban America, and the subsequent theft crimes and prostitution that goes with addiction, Meth is crack for the crackers. It is happening, the gangsta life in the "white world", it's just slower, smaller and more subtle. Next weekend I am very fortunate to attend the birthday party of a Hispanic friend named Zipporah, whom I lost touch with last year. I'm happy about her birthday because when I met her a year ago was a crack addict who lost her child to CPS and was being "turned out" to bring home money to her dealers 'Sides, white kids may emulate "blackness", whatever that perception might mean, but the black kids looking for pride, identity, and, honestly, something to kill the time with, are simply more likely to jump more fully into the black experience than white kids, the good and the bad of whatever that may encompass.

It's ALL part of the problem. But part of the problem, too, is the music - or at least what the music promotes by the guys who write and sell it. Guys who should know better if they knew the history of their artistic medium, selling audio poison to people who want something fast and cheap. No doubt poverty and bad schools play a part in violence, it always has.... but there's something culturally unique about a lifestyle where randomly spraying the street with gunfire is seen as "a part of life". Listen to some of the old black folks baffled by what's happening to their neighborhoods. Back in the days when they couldn't trust white police -or white anybody - to treat them civilly, back when the segregated schools had 20 year old textbooks and jobs outside the colorline were hard to find, when things were worse for them overall, to be blunt, they can't recall young back men randomly turning the streets into warzones over fast money & pride on a scale that's happening now. Drive-bys on BICYLCES aren't being committed to the refrain of She Daisy by people in tie-dyed t-shirs and Birkenstocks. The music isn't the cause, but the CDs, posters, music videos, movies, videogames, clothing all cheaply & quickly spread and reinforce the message to the people who least need to be informed about this life path.

Gangsta life has always been around to some extent, and there are many factors as to why it exists. What is somewhat new and different is that more than ever it is being mass produced, trademarked and sold as a valuable pop-cultural commodity, and young people are always willing to get in on that which makes them unique and distinct amoung their peers.

 

[Krazy]

Makaveli The Don? U BLAME MAKAVELI 4 THIS and the whole rap crew!?

Tupac tried to make a diffrence buddy, The goverment silenced him, and unless your ass can do someting better shut up! however i have nothing left to say other then this, READ IT and remember Where Tupac got the Plot???

"I never had much, ran with a bad bunch
Little skinny kid sneakin weed in my bag lunch
And all through Junior High, we was just gettin by
And drivebys robbed my homies of their young lives
I never did cry, and even though I had
pain in my heart, I was hopeless from the start
They couldn't tell me nothin, they all tried to help to help me
The marijuana had my mind gone it wasn't healthy
I travelled places, caught cases, what a ill year
I felt the pain and the rain but I'm still here
Never did like the police, let the whole world know
Now I gets no peace, cause they chasin me down
And facin me now, what do I do?
These thangs that a Thug goes through
And still I rise so keep ya head up, and make ya mind strong
It's a struggle every day but you gotta hold on

[Chorus: repeat 4X]

Hold on, be strong, hold on
Be strong, hold on
When it's on it's on

There's, never a good day, cause in my hood they
let they AK's pump strays where the kids play
And every Halloween, check out the murder scene
Can't help but duplicate the violence seen on the screen
My homies dyin 'fore they get to see they birthdays
These is the worst days, sometimes it hurts to pray
And even God turned his back on the ghetto youth
I know that ain't the truth, sometimes I look for proof
I wonder if heaven got a ghetto, and if it does
Does it matter if you blood or you cuz
Remember how it was, the picnics and the parties in the projects
Small time drinkin gettin high with them armies
Just another knucklehead kid from the gutter
I'm dealin with the madness, raised by a single mother
I'm tryin to tell you when it's on
You gotta keep your head to the sky and be strong, most of all
hold on

[Chorus]

[Interlude:]

Hold on, be strong
I know them ain't tears comin down your face
When it's on it's on but
Wipe your eyes
Hold on, be strong
In this world
When it's on it's on but
Only the strong survive y'know
Hold on, be strong
Hmm, I know it's hard out there
When it's on it's on but
Welfare
Hold on, be strong
AIDS, earthquakes
Cause when it's on it's on but
Muggings, carjackings
Hold on, and be strong
Yeah we got problems
Cause when it's on it's on but
But believe me when I tell you
Hold on, and be strong
Things always get better
Cause when it's on it's on but
God don't like ugly
Hold on, and be strong
And God don't like no quitters
Cause when it's on it's on but
You know what Billie Holiday said bay-bee
Hold on, and be strong
God bless the child that can hold his own
Cause when it's on it's on but
Y'know?
Hold on, and be strong
You got to stand strong
Cause when it's on it's on but
And when these bustas try to knock you out your place
Hold on, and be strong
You stand there to they face
Cause when it's on it's on but
Tell em hold on, and be strong
Hold on, and be strong
The game don't stop
Cause when it's on it's on but
Hmmm
Hold on, and be strong
This here is black main
Cause when it's on it's on but
If you don't never leave nothin, learn one thing
Hold on, and be strong
It don't stop, til the casket drop
Hold on
Thug, for Life... feel me?
All my homeboys and my homegirls, stay strong
When things get bad, especially come the first and the fifteenth
Stay strong, and stay ballin, hold on
I'll catch y'all at the next life, we in traffic"

 

[kis123]

again, these suburban kids are not acting violently like their minority counterparts. yet, both groups can use drugs and treat women like shit. but, these white kids are not driving around participating in drive by shootings are they? yet, they "jam" to 50 cent, 2pac and such. why the difference? maybe, just maybe, it's NOT the music that causes violence, it could be the socioeconomic status of the listeners......stop blaming the music....it is a personal responsibility to do what is right and what is wrong.

The music represents a lifestyle I vehemently disapprove of, and that's not changing over here at all. Sorry, you can't convince me, hundreds of parents who've buried their children, or thousands of people who feel the same.

What about the increase of violent crime among suburban whites? What about the date rape drugs and increase in crystal meth? Let's not forget our favorite party drug "ecstasy"? This is landing a lot of rich kids in body bags too. The only difference is they are able to afford their lifestyle and not have to rob or shoot somebody in order to eat or get their LeBrons!

Not everyone is wired the same. Certain stimuli affect people differently than others. Poor kids with few to no role models and hope for the future gravitate to the LIFESTLYE the music represents. They gravitate to the PERSONNAS of the rappers involved. Deny it all you want, but it's the truth anyway!

You're an adult. The people on this forum defending this so-called "music" are adults. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the kids raised on this stuff and not even making it to adulthood unless it's from the detention home to the penitentiary (sp) or in a body bag. Those are the ones I'm talking about.

The horse is dead! We need to stop beating it at this point. Your arguments don't convince me in the least and I'm obviously not swaying you one bit. Let's just agree to disagree and let it go! Hopefully no one's child on this forum both pro and against don't have to go through gangsta living the hard way.

 

[Krazy]

Oh and Odd.. Thug life stands for

The Hate U Gave Little Infants Fucks Everyone

oh and btw buddy? When did the middle finger become a GANG SIGN??!

and women beating? wtf are you talking about?

 

[kis123]

Makaveli The Don? U BLAME MAKAVELI 4 THIS and the whole rap crew!?

Tupac tried to make a diffrence buddy, The goverment silenced him, and unless your ass can do someting better shut up! however i have nothing left to say other then this, READ IT and remember Where Tupac got the Plot???

I can understand your passion, but being rude isn't going to get anyone to listen to you.

I actually liked 2pac as an artist. He's the only "gansta" rapper who had real words and not just grinding the usual crap. I liked him as an actor as well, especially when he did the movie with Janet Jackson (can't remember the name right now).

He was also more intelligent than even he let on. His problem was that he bought into his own hype and eventually died by the sword. If you're denying that, you're deluding yourself.

 

[Krazy]

Its deeper then passion, When Pac Resurrected in 2003 ( The 7th year) things heated up. On the (10th). year his FINAL cd will be released: "2 Be Or Not 2 be" and Pacs Posse is only getting BIGGER and Kris your right man! , That is why Pac left, Tupac:Ressurection " I was young and dumb"
Tupac:Resurrection "were all made 2 grow you either grow or you DISAPPEAR"

sorry for the insults I only got angry
Because what odd did was tell B.S lies to make his point fit better.

 

[kis123]

It's ALL part of the problem. But part of the problem, too, is the music - or at least what the music promotes by the guys who write and sell it. Guys who should know better if they knew the history of their artistic medium, selling audio poison to people who want something fast and cheap. No doubt poverty and bad schools play a part in violence, it always has.... but there's something culturally unique about a lifestyle where randomly spraying the street with gunfire is seen as "a part of life". Listen to some of the old black folks baffled by what's happening to their neighborhoods. Back in the days when they couldn't trust white police -or white anybody - to treat them civilly, back when the segregated schools had 20 year old textbooks and jobs outside the colorline were hard to find, when things were worse for them overall, to be blunt, they can't recall young back men randomly turning the streets into warzones over fast money & pride on a scale that's happening now. Drive-bys on BICYLCES aren't being committed to the refrain of She Daisy by people in tie-dyed t-shirs and Birkenstocks. The music isn't the cause, but the CDs, posters, music videos, movies, videogames, clothing all cheaply & quickly spread and reinforce the message to the people who least need to be informed about this life path.

Gangsta life has always been around to some extent, and there are many factors as to why it exists. What is somewhat new and different is that more than ever it is being mass produced, trademarked and sold as a valuable pop-cultural commodity, and young people are always willing to get in on that which makes them unique and distinct amoung their peers.

It doesn't get any more plain than this and I couldn't agree more.

To say the lifestlyle the music and it's personnas represent doesn't affect anyone is ludicrous, or should I say LudaCris (or however he spells his personna name)!

I think I'll take my own advice at this point, agree to disagree and let it go. Until I hear something different that what I've been hearing over the last two years over this topic, there's little else to say.

 

[primetime]

it's funny, Oddjob writes a nice post, not realizing what this thread is about. you are talking about the ills of society and why kids do what they do. when i made the point about the white suburban kids not acting out the same "gangsta rap" personas like their minority counterparts, you come back with the increase in drug use. that didnt come from listening to gangsta rap. that type of behavior occurred before gangsta rap came about. it's also funny that you actually agree that the music is NOT the reason for the violence. does it play a part? i will agree that it can influence people's minds, but again, the lifestyle that it portrays is a real lifestyle that they are intimidating. in other words, the lifestyle created the music, not the other way around.

bottom line folks, this thread is not about why kids are gang members or not. this thread was started because the originator of the thread basically blamed "gangsta rap" music on a particular incident that was tragic. i dont care if you like rap or not. that is your personal choice. but for someone to come onto the board and blame rap music for a tragic incident isnt right.

if you really read all the posts on this thread, you can all see we agree to a certain extent. violence is bad. the way society is, it can be a real f*cked up place. HOWEVER, to blame rap music for isolated incidents is bullshit. we can all discuss why people are violent, but leave the music out of it. because dammit, a killer can listen to jazz and still kill someone. a rapist can listen to Mozart's symphonies and still commit rape. hell, i'm sure there are people who listened to gospel music and STILL committed a violent crime. it is a person's behavior and mindset that causes their problems. can music influence them? yes it can. no one can deny that as music inspires everyone. but to blame violent behavior on a music, ESPECIALLY when the same violence existed before that particular music was created, is ludicrous (or should i spell it Ludacris?).

get the point?