God: Perfect or Kinda Not?

[Neutron]

Now Come On Psycho...

Is it that God is allowing Satan to cause pain, or that he can't stop Satan from causing pain? I think it's the later son.
Also, you seem to imply pain is bad. What about pain that affirms faith?
Odd I'm not a christian, but I seem to understand the preachings of the faith far better than you do child. You'll never see me presuming to know the mind, or will of God, something you did in all your posts.

"To Bella. Old Testiment law does not imply to us today. Because Jesus made the Blood Sacrifice we no longer have to live by the Old Testiment rituals."

I wonder what God thinks of that l;ast statement, where in the New Testament does it say we no longer have to live by what's in the old testament? I guess the 10 commandmants are out the window now, and virtually every weak argument you made against homosexuality.
Tron

 

[venray]

See he called me son. This sentence is disrespectful not only to GOD but to me. Why is his namecalling different then mine?

Your own words say he was being disrepectful to God, yet you deny this in answering my question. I do not dislike you. If that were the case I would not have spent hours in pms with you trying to calm you down ... and as for religion, I am a Roman Catholic, so I have nothing to gain by being "against your religion".

The difference is that I respect the opinion of those whose beliefs differ from mine which is something you do not do as evident in your posts.

As this is a thread about God and religion it is very relevant to question others and perhaps to learn without trying to force one's personal beliefs upon others.

The truth is that we dont know how we got here or what God expects from us. We only have our faith to rely on. Others have their own faith and beliefs as well and as men we have no right to judge them.


Ven

 

[Psycho]

I have nothing to say to you. You arent trying to have a civilized discussion about religion. You are tring to provock me into a fight. Why dont you just leave. Nobody likes you. I would say that the reason they used to sacrifice animals is for the Blood Sacrifice for our sins. Jesus now made that Sacrafice. Also the Ten Commandments where not part of the Torah (or jewish law) they where given to Moses on the Mountain. Also when the Trinity visited Lot in Gamorrah (sorry about the spelling) the gay people in the city wanted to have sex with them (the Trinity). Lot offered them his daughters instead because that would be a sin. Then the Trinity told Lot not to so Lot baracaided the door, and the Trinity struck them blind so they couldnt find the door. This proves that GOD doesnt agree with being gay.

Psycho

 

[Psycho]

Venray I think this side conversation that you and me are having is distracting from the main discussion I will continue this in pm. I would also like 2 say that I do not try to "force" my opinions on anyone. I just tell them my opinions.

Psycho

 

[sushi854]

psycho...

So the Ten Commandments are not part of Jewish law? Since the story of Sodom and Gomorrah takes place in the Old Testament, doesn't your previous assertion that Old Testament law does not apply sort of discredit your use of this story as an argument against homosexuality? Why do so many Christian denominations have so many different interpretations of scripture and how it should be followed? It is questions like these that make it difficult to blindly follow everything the Bible says, and Christians throughout the centuries have debated the nature of God and how to follow these teachings. I think venray just about sums it up in the last sentence of his last post...

 

[venray]

Thank you sushi854... Someday I will follow through on an old threat to post exactly what I belive as far as where we came from and organized religion goes....what a thread that will be.....but I havent lost my last little bit of sanity.......yet...


😉 🙄

Ven

 

[Psycho]

Re: psycho...

So the Ten Commandments are not part of Jewish law? Since the story of Sodom and Gomorrah takes place in the Old Testament, doesn't your previous assertion that Old Testament law does not apply sort of discredit your use of this story as an argument against homosexuality? Why do so many Christian denominations have so many different interpretations of scripture and how it should be followed? It is questions like these that make it difficult to blindly follow everything the Bible says, and Christians throughout the centuries have debated the nature of God and how to follow these teachings. I think venray just about sums it up in the last sentence of his last post...

I didnt say the Ten Commandments wasnt part of the jewish law I siad it wasnt part of the Torah (the ancient jewish law is a better interpretaion) anyways when I refere to the old testimant law I mean the Torah. Anyways. Why would GOD change his mind. The only reason the Torah is no longer in affect is that Jesus paid the Blood Sacrifice so there is no reason to follow the rituals of the old covinant. About different interpretations arent there just as many interpretations of the Constitution the the US. We are humans we are going to interprete things in different ways. You choose what you want to believe. I am simply telling you what I believe. I think what I believe is right. It makes perfect sence. You believe what you want to. Thank you for posting an argument in a decent manner sushi and bella rather then attacking someone for there opinions like some do.

Psycho

 

[Psycho]

Also this just come to mind. If you choose to discredit the Soddom and Gamorrah story then look at Pauls letters. I am not shure wich one but one of the churches he wrote to he said that they practiced homosexuality and that they should repent. Like I said before I do not hate gay people. I dont hate anybody as a group. Or based on their opinions, race, religion, or sexual preferance. I do however dislike people because of there actions. (ie. not proton not electron but......) anyways. Oh and Ray if you make good on that old threat I will make good on a new one that I will state my opinion if it differs from yours I will do this in a civil way of course as I always do.

Psycho

 

[venray]

Sounds good to me. I look forward to that day.


😀

 

[ronlasvegas]

Well if anyone is offended by this postI am sorry but with this thread I am fellowshipping with you folks and that is a good thing. I must disagree with psycho that the old testament does not apply in todays world. I think like bellas example Deut22:13-30,it is talking about sin of a sexual nature.It breaks the basic core of a family and tears the family apart very much a problem in todays world. I do not understand alot of things God allows to happen(children dying for one)but He tells us that something good will come out of his works maybe not today or tommorrow,we may never see in our lifetime.God bought our souls with the blood of the lamb he did not buy our physical body.He guarantees the eternal life of your soul, Again if that were the promise who would be there for the reason of love.God may allow you to suffer for reasons we can not see. It is Satans job to make you doubt God.I know before I was saved I couldnt grasp the meaning now three years later I want to put the book in a non-believers face and say "why cant you understand this it is so easy to read and this is nothing to joke about" instead I pray for them as well as I do for you.
Ronnie

 

[ronlasvegas]

The closer I get to God, the more I realize how far I am- in terms of being like Jesus Christ-how inperfect I am and realize I was born a sinner

 

[Psycho]

"Deut22:13-30,it is talking about sin of a sexual nature.It breaks the basic core of a family and tears the family apart very much a problem in todays world"-Ron

I agree Ron. What I said is that they are no longer commanded to be stoned for it. The reason they where stonned under the Torah is because it was impossible for the Blood Sacrifice of an animal to cover a sin as bad as the ones that they are to be stoned for. However the Blood Sacrafice of Jesus was more then enough to cover them.

Psycho

 

[Psycho]

The closer I get to God, the more I realize how far I am- in terms of being like Jesus Christ-how inperfect I am and realize I was born a sinner

So was everyone. I commend you for trying to be Christ like. We are to try, but we cant "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD" the only way to enter heaven with this sin is to accept the Blood Sacrifice of Jesus Christ by asking him into your heart.

Psycho

 

[AffectionateDan]

:::clapping hands together and rubbing vigorously:::

Okay, Bella... what's next? Wanna go poke a bee's nest with a stick? OOooh, hey, or how about flipping off some bikers on the highway? Naughty little mocha subbie! Where's my paddle?

 

[leomac]

I've been reading this thread, (most of them, anyway) and this is getting way too complicated. To be saved you must believe that Jesus Christ died on the Cross, then rose again to life. That's it. Loving one another and obeying the 10 Commandments is also a very good thing. I don't think anyone can argue with that, can they?

 

[TKpervert]

In my opinion, MrPartickler got it right when he said "God set things in motion and then stepped aside".

To paraphrase more to my liking, "God created natural law and then stepped aside". When I say natural law, I mean the rules governing the way things interact, which we study through the diciplines of physics and chemistry.

This opinion doesn't make me godless, it makes me one who believes that He who started this doesn't diddle in the day-to-day affairs of creatures wrought by the workings of natural law.

We're here due to the amazing properties of the carbon atom, pure and simple. The carbon atom does its magic through the strictures of natural law, which were of course, laid down by ... Him.
Evolution did the rest.

Organized religion is a crock.
Satan is a crock.
The bible is a well-crafted work, but crafted by humans without any 'divine intervention'.
Biblical 'miracles' got into the writings through mis-interpretation, mass-hysteria, and being repeated, and bolixed, often enough.

If 'God' created man in his image, why do hurricanes, such as Andrew in 1992, get flung across the Atlantic at us to destroy, among other things, the very houses that are built to worship Him?

Why is man's young allowed to be crippled from infancy through the remainder of their 'God-given' lives through a scourge like polio?

Why was the plague allowed to snuff out the lives of 50 million of "God's" images in Europe, Africa, and Asia in the fourteenth century?

God didn't do these things, natural law did.

 

[BellaRisa]

Re: :::clapping hands together and rubbing vigorously:::

Okay, Bella... what's next? Wanna go poke a bee's nest with a stick? OOooh, hey, or how about flipping off some bikers on the highway? Naughty little mocha subbie! Where's my paddle?

Oh hon, 11/3 was my birthday, my party was last Saturday. Given my interests you KNOW I can't handle *another* paddling yet, I've been typing standing up as it is 😱 😛

And I wasn't pokin' no bees, all's I did was ask a question or two. If grownups can't answer me without name-calling and hostile wrongness it ain't my fault

And whether I flip off bikers depends on what I'm wearing 😉

Bella

 

[Neutron]

Luckily For God...

He has a 16 year old lad like Psycho to tell us which of his words became applicable after the New Testament.
I called a preacher this morning lad, and he said your interpretation is bullshit.
The sacrifices in the Old testament were to honor the power of god and had nothing to atone for sin.
Sigh, children these days.

Tron

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

Now that I have a bit of time, I thought I'd finally respond to this thread. However, I'm responding to Bella's intended topic and NOT the rash of side issues that got dragged in.

The plain and simple answer for me personally... I believe that God is perfect and that it is our undersatnding of Him that is and always will be imperfect. This isn't something I walk into blindly at all. I constantly question and challenge Him...sometimes with a good deal of anger. But, in the end, something inside always finds peace with the fact/belief that He knows what He's doing and will indeed bring all things to good.

One example of this was when I was in the midst of dealing with abuse issues. It was one of the most difficult periods of my life and nearly sent me in the opposite direction. There were many times when I stood before the altar screaming at Him when nobody else was around. I questioned His wisdom, His love for me, His allowing us free will...everything. I know that many would be horrified to think of someone yelling at God. But, I look at it this way. He knows what's in my heart. If I'm going to have an honest relationship with Him, then why lie about what I feel? He can handle everything I have to dish out...and then some. In the end, I believe that it was being totally naked before Him (emotionally speaking) that helped me allow Him to bring healing.

So, yes. I question Him on a regular basis. I challenge Him when I don't understand something...like now with why my mom has to suffer through a third bout of cancer. But, I also recognize that I WON'T always understand. And I've come to a place where I'm okay with and have found peace with that. It's something that I wish for others to find...not so that they believe what I do, but so that they find the peace I've found. It's each persons own personal journey to make, not mine to push on them. So, I encourage others to question Him as I have. I trust that He will meet each person where they're at (even those who can't see Him) and lead them to where they need to be....whereever that is for each person.

Ann

Good topic, Bella. Too bad it got off track.

 

[Drago69]

God = not real

 

[Admiral Trouser]

Bella, how do you get round the various logical problems that being Perfect creates though? Not to sound offensive, but is just faith? If it is, then I'm sorry, I just cant except that. I beleive in a God in so far as a First Mover, the orginoal causer of the Universe that the stepped back and watch his creation move and cause itself. No perfection required, par se. To me, a God that gives us rational reasoning and logic as our main tools of comprehending the world he created for us, but then denies us the tools to understand him rationaly, doesn't make sense.
There are so many contradictions that you can create, both in understanding gods essence and ability and in the history of the bible that we presume he presides over, that it really does become difficult to beleive in such a being with any force of rationality.

AT

 

[natural tickler]

For Psycho and all others who believe God is real, and are defending His Word, I salute you. For all others who have doubts, are questioning Him for all the worng reasons, or those who doesn't feel He exists, you will find out soon enough. When the day is coming (judgement day) and you will see Him in all His glory, you willknow and feel His presence. I feel sorry for those who don't believe. You'll wish you did. Why do bad things happen? to get you to depend on Him, have faith in Him. He doesn't just let things happen just to happen there's a reason for everything. These are signs that Jesus is returning. All who believe will follow Him to the Kingdom, all those who will not will enter into Hell for eternity. Remember, and never forget: you are where you are by the grace of God and His goodness and mercy will last forever; not by anything you did.
my 2 cents

 

[Psycho]

Re: Luckily For God...

He has a 16 year old lad like Psycho to tell us which of his words became applicable after the New Testament.
I called a preacher this morning lad, and he said your interpretation is bullshit.
The sacrifices in the Old testament were to honor the power of god and had nothing to atone for sin.
Sigh, children these days.

Tron

So wich is it? First you said that I was 15 then 17 now 16. ha what a joke. Do you think anyone takes you seriously. Its a good thing that the TMF has some 35 year old loser living in his mothers basement to tell them who shouldnt be on. Say havent you said this before about almost EVERY other member on the TMF? Havent you also said that most of them are the opisite sex of what they claim to be? Oh well what preacher told you that what I said was bull shit. Would any preacher even say the word bull shit? (the homeless guy with the Bible on your corner isnt really a preacher) Read the Bible before you try to argue with it. I have nothing else to say because what I am saying is falling on deaf ears. None of yall are listening to me. Have I called any one a name in here or acted rude towards anyone? (other then Tron of course) Anyways I shall no longer post on this thread. Thanx bye.

Psycho

 

[Neutron]

LOL..

Gotta love the children of the world. Psycho, listen son, I've read the bible many times.it's a fabulous story with a lot of good words and concepts in it.
And yes son, preachers do swear. Your specficif age doesn't matter, What does matter is you're a minor, and you prove my point with every post.
To say one portion of the bible is superceded by another portion is pure childish poppycock. In fact the New Testament is nothing without the oLd Testament.
One lays the basis for gods power, the other preaches his words. Everything in life needs a basis son, and one day you'll be out of High School, you'll learn to spell, and you'll realie just what I'm talking about.
On one hand you say God is all powerful, then you say pain isn't caused by God. If you carefully read the bible you'll see there's plenty of pain in it, much inflicted by God , and many times it's pain without purpose.
You'll also find many of the arguments you've used against homosexuality, and other various ignorant rants you've made, have their "basis" in the Old Testament, a doccument you claim is no longer applicable. You can't have both lad.
When confronted with fact, you say people are provoking you. I merely want to see how you use logic my child. Nothing more, nothing less. Every word you've typed in this thread presumes to know what God says, thinks, or feels. That my lil guy is a sin. One of the greatest man can commit.

Tron

 

[primetime]

my position is this. if you believe in God, good for you. if you dont, them good for you. i believe in God and accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Saviour. that is my right, and no one can convince me otherwise. i do not blame God for the mayhem that goes on in the world, i blame Satan. he DOES exist. Satan is the "god" of this world. he was a fallen angel and sent here. this is his world. as for God being "perfect", of course he is. but he allows free will. ever remember a time when your parents told you not to do something, and they KNEW you were going to do it anyway? then you suffered consequences for your actions, but your parents still loved you and hoped you learn your lesson. Man was created without sin, but given a free will. but Adam and Eve were fooled by the Devil, and lo and behold sin was born. God could have destroyed the world, but didnt because he loves us. that is why he gave his only Son to die for US and to allow us to get back in his "good graces". how many of you would give your child away to save everybody else? i see no hands up do i?

to the people who doubt the Bible's words, do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? if you believe in Jesus, then you know what he did actually happened. if that is the case, then remember, you would KNOW he was crucified. why was he crucified? for laughs? of course not. he had a purpose in mind when he was crucified. he then ROSE from the dead three days later. he defeated death and that is what allows us humans to get the opportunity to get back in God's "good graces". we are sinners and none of us will ever be perfect. but we are blessed by God that he is willing to forgive us, much like your parents forgave you for some of the stupid things you did.

again, believe whatever you want. just remember, we will all find out what happens after we die. under the Christian beliefs, one who dies and hasnt accepted Christ as their savior will be doomed to hell, right? but those that dont believe God exists believe there is no afterlife. so, there seems to be no real consequence in death if God doesnt exist. so if us Christians die, and there is no God, then no real harm comes to us. BUT, there is a consequence if God DOES exist. ask yourself this. are you willing to take that chance? we Christians have nothing to lose do we? but non Christians have to take a tremendous chance about death. if they're wrong, there is a HUGE price to pay. just something to think about. are you willing to take that chance??