How racist are you?

[Ticklerguy4u]

As long as it's true.

Well truth doesn't always mean its right, it just means its fact.

The Supreme Court has made that distiction very clear: If you can't prove you're solving a problem you have NOW, you cannot reverse-discriminate. So why do so many corporations and governments do it anyway? Because every time someone challenges, the rules change. For now, we are just going to have to live with it. But it's only hurting the people it's meant to help. Every time one black woman gets a job she can't really do, it lowers the respect level -- exponentially. If there's one example of institutional racism in America today, it's the backlash againt affirmative action by the people who observe that it's time to go to a merit-based way of doing things. But even that isn't racism. I clearly see the difference between the affirmative action hires at my job and the black and Indian people who are awesome hires and can kick ass and take names at what they do. I think most people can see that too. I think that right now, affirmative action is hurting black women more than anyone else...

Well its just made to give everyone an opportunity. What the person does with it is their decision. Being a woman already has its unfair judgements add to that a color barrier and its double jeopardy. I can see where you would think that it hurts a woman by giving her what she has not really earned.

Again, I personally don't care if a woman is a fireman or firewoman. All I care about is when I'm trapped in a building ...she needs to lift me up and carry me out to safety. So to say that its hurting them is automatically assuming that their is no discrimination against women themselves let alone a black woman. Even if it is on a hush-hush. I know many men in power that are threatened by any woman of that same power. Once this no longer is an issue , it will die out and the phrase "All men/women are created equal" will have merit.

Yes, true. If the categories are white and non-white, definitely so. If you break things out in finer resolution, though, I think you can still talk about non-white minorities.

why catergorize a certain race of people as minorities..minor to what or who? They are all human beings as are we all but then again I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The way this world is built..there a winners and losers, wealthy and poor, popular and unpopular, beautiful and average, powerful and powerless, etc. and obviously minorities...I wonder what the base of comparison is?

True. And when that was a problem, affirmative action was the correct solution. But affirmative action was never meant to be permanent. I see employee populations where affirmative action has resulted in such obvious over correction that it's now something to worried about in terms of civil liability coming the other way.

Well its probably because people are dishonest or honest to a fault. I'm sure their are people out there that use this as a way of getting something they didn't earn, but at the same time the person that did earn it gets shunned away because of gender or race. No one knows what a person's true intentions are. Whether to climb the ladder of success through hard work or manipulation or keep someone from advancing because of laziness or prejudice. You can never know what a person is truly thinking you just have to set some rules up to avoid it the best way you can. If it becomes all too common. When does it stop..I guess when we all stop taking advantage of it.

That's true also. There are people who legitimately competed for jobs who turn out to be zeros in every field, I comppletely agree. But hiring someone who you should have known would turn out to be a underperformer because they weren't qualified in the first place is something else altogether, don't you agree?

Yes, I do. Some time ago New York voted for a black mayor...Dinkins. It was no secret why either, but it backfired. Why, because his color had nothing to do with what kind of leader he was as many disappointingly found out. It was assumed that he would take care of his own and when he didn't ...he was never re-elected. Again, it all has to do with recognition. Those who have the ability to hire someone that is not qualified may have to grit there teeth as not to be considered discrimating and those who do not deserve to be given the job despite what color they are have to stop acting as if they deserve it. The color, gender, physical limitations or sexual orientation (within reason of course, hiring a guy to be "towel girl" in a ladies locker room isn't a good idea or vice versa) should never be a factor when dealing with job requirements but it does. That is the truth and fact of the matter.

 

[kis123]

This may be true but unless you live on the other side of the coin. You can't really act as if you understand. There may be some jobs that require a certain percentage of minority, but then again...why have that statement. "hire a minority"...A solution is usually made when there is a problem. If it wasn't a problem at one time..there wouldn't of been a need of a solution. Don't kid yourself about it and I wish people would quit refering anyone of non-white origin as a minority. Right there..is a reflection of how the U.S. gov sees it..so again..don't kid yourself about it.

I do realize that some people aren't qualified for a job and get it because of this rule..thats fine. but its no different than say a white person riding on the coat tails of their color as well. When did someone say "we have to hire some minorities for this job..okay, lets get that white guy over there." It never happens..minorities are anyone that is spanish, black, mexican..anyone not considered of white origin or American origin. In my opinion, there are some white people that are as dumb as a box of rocks and hold high positions at a job. Again, lets not kid ourselves.

You are trying to hold an intelligent and logical dialogue with someone who simply will not understand anyone's position other than his own. It's what the bible calls "casting pearls amongst swine." Now, I'm not directly calling him a pig, I'm saying that intelligent dialogue is wasted on him or anyone else so ingrained in negative opinion about a race he knows NOTHING about beyond stereotypes and television.

Oh yeah, there's those African and Jamaican friends of his that hate American blacks; they don't really know us either and many are jealous of us. We don't have to live in the desert or watch as people come in their countries and enjoy what they can't afford themselves.

And no one is going to give me what I earn out here; I've bumped my head on a lot of glass ceilings. Even if I deserve it more, I'll still have to fight to get whatever I want and need because of my race and gender. Corporate America has never been fair and will do whatever it takes to do as little for me as possible. So if I have to use Affirmative Action to make some white man give me what I've earned, so be it!

Too bad wendy; you'll just have to deal with reality on this one.

 

[wendynpeter]

So if I have to use Affirmative Action to make some white man give me what I've earned, so be it!

Make some white man give you a job?? Jesus. That is one shitty attitude you have there- and affirmative action can't help you there. I've got news for you. That kind of attitude is completely detectable. And if it comes down to an affirmative action hire bewtween you and another black woman who doesn't have your attitude -- who doesn't carry that big chip on her shoulder, who do you think's going to get the job?

The only thing worse than an unqualified affirmative action hire is an "entitlement" affirmative action hire.

 

[Tamia78]

Make some white man give you a job?? Jesus. That's just the worst attitude -- and affirmative action can't help you there. I've got news for you. That kind of attitude is completely detectable. And if it comes down to an affirmative action hire bewtween you and another black woman who doesn't have your attitude -- who doesn't carry that big chip on her shoulder, who do you think's going to get the job?

Oh please. That's not an example of a chip on her shoulder and you know it. Stop acting like you know everything because you OBVIOUSLY don't. Wouldn't you take help if you knew it would help you show the qualifications you know you have for the job? It would be one thing if she wasn't capable or qualified. THAT would be taking advantage of the system. Without affirmative action, alot of minorities wouldn't get the chance to show their qualifications because they wouldn't have gotten hired anyways.

I withdraw the earlier question about taking help--you're white. Whether you are qualified or not doesn't matter, now, does it?

--T

 

[jaba]

"Wendy's World" view......

Make some white man give you a job?? Jesus. That is one shitty attitude you have there- and affirmative action can't help you there. I've got news for you. That kind of attitude is completely detectable. And if it comes down to an affirmative action hire bewtween you and another black woman who doesn't have your attitude -- who doesn't carry that big chip on her shoulder, who do you think's going to get the job?

The only thing worse than an unqualified affirmative action hire is an "entitlement" affirmative action hire.

Because see, in "Wendy's World", BOTH Black women in his above "scenario" are automatically "Affirmative Action " candidates.....for just about any job requiring a " competent, qualified" individual....

Because there's NO WAY those black ladies could be "qualified", and considered for the job based on "merit alone", in "Wendy's World".....

right Wendy?.....

Keep posting, Wendy......YOUR kind of "attitude" is GLARINGLY "detectable".......

 

[kis123]

Make some white man give you a job?? Jesus. That is one shitty attitude you have there- and affirmative action can't help you there. I've got news for you. That kind of attitude is completely detectable. And if it comes down to an affirmative action hire bewtween you and another black woman who doesn't have your attitude -- who doesn't carry that big chip on her shoulder, who do you think's going to get the job?

The only thing worse than an unqualified affirmative action hire is an "entitlement" affirmative action hire.

Give me a friggin' break!

What attitude are you talking about? The attitude that makes me a strong intelligent black woman who knows who she is and what she wants? Or would you rather I cow-towel and beg for what I've proven I deserve? That's the problem with you wendy; you carry the white man's burden syndrome. You want to have it all and you don't want competiton-it's simply not that way. That "attitude" of yours is the reason behind the civil rights act and affirmative action in the first place.

I'm not asking anyone to give me anything more than what I've earned and proven; if I have to use the laws of the land to get it, that's exactly what I'll do. I'm an old-school player wendy; my mother and grandmother taught me how to get my foot in the door and patiently wait for opportunity. They never see me coming wendy; I know how to keep my opinions to myself when the racist sexist rhetoric goes flying. I know how to stay out of office politics and I learn who the players are. Then I wait for my moment-I've been doing it for years and it's NEVER failed me yet. No one has detected me yet and they never will because I know how to play the game. It's sad I have to do these things but people say they want honesty, but they really just want people to play the game.

You're running out of arguments so now you're just spitting whatever comes to you. You claim not to be racist; you obviously haven't been reading your posts-they just ooze of stereotypes, ignorance, and bigotry towards a people you don't know, understand, or even like. Such a pity........

 

[kis123]

Because see, in "Wendy's World", BOTH Black women in his above "scenario" are automatically "Affirmative Action " candidates.....for just about any job requiring a " competent, qualified" individual....

Because there's NO WAY those black ladies could be "qualified", and considered for the job based on "merit alone", in "Wendy's World".....

right Wendy?.....

Keep posting, Wendy......YOUR kind of "attitude" is GLARINGLY "detectable".......

But remember, he's not a racist; only supports the stereotypes, rhetoric, and negativity. Don't worry folks, it's all about to come to a head-just stick around for a few more posts and watch the real wendy come out.

 

[Bugman]

But remember, he's not a racist; only supports the stereotypes, rhetoric, and negativity. Don't worry folks, it's all about to come to a head-just stick around for a few more posts and watch the real wendy come out.

kis123,you are without a doubt one of the most intilligent members of this forum.I would think any company would be happy to have someone like you in a management position.

 

[kis123]

kis123,you are without a doubt one of the most intilligent members of this forum.I would think any company would be happy to have someone like you in a management position.

Why thank you...... You sure know how to make a brown girl blush! The package will come complete with my MBA in 2008. You see, I'll put in the work to get what I want and don't expect anyone to give it to be on an "entitlement" basis. Don't let wendy or anyone else fool you; I've been in the workforce long enough to know what works and what doesn't.

 

[kis123]

Oh please. That's not an example of a chip on her shoulder and you know it. Stop acting like you know everything because you OBVIOUSLY don't. Wouldn't you take help if you knew it would help you show the qualifications you know you have for the job? It would be one thing if she wasn't capable or qualified. THAT would be taking advantage of the system. Without affirmative action, alot of minorities wouldn't get the chance to show their qualifications because they wouldn't have gotten hired anyways.

I withdraw the earlier question about taking help--you're white. Whether you are qualified or not doesn't matter, now, does it?

--T

Check your PM box........

 

[jaba]

but which Wendy?

But remember, he's not a racist; only supports the stereotypes, rhetoric, and negativity. Don't worry folks, it's all about to come to a head-just stick around for a few more posts and watch the real wendy come out.

Yeah, but "which" is the "real" Wendy?

Is it the Wendy that believes the "apologetic" Mel Gibson IS a "racist"....?

Or is it the Wendy that believes that the "apologetic" Michael Richards IS NOT a "racist"?......

Based on his "apparent confusion" and contradictions, I don't even think "Wendy" knows who the "real" Wendy is....

 

[Bugman]

Why thank you...... You sure know how to make a brown girl blush! The package will come complete with my MBA in 2008. You see, I'll put in the work to get what I want and don't expect anyone to give it to be on an "entitlement" basis. Don't let wendy or anyone else fool you; I've been in the workforce long enough to know what works and what doesn't.

I'm sure you have my dear,and the best of luck to you.😉

 

[kis123]

Yeah, but "which" is the "real" Wendy?

Is it the Wendy that believes the "apologetic" Mel Gibson IS a "racist"....?

Or is it the Wendy that believes that the "apologetic" Michael Richards IS NOT a "racist"?......

Based on his "apparent confusion" and contradictions, I don't even think "Wendy" knows who the "real" Wendy is....

Hadn't quite thought of it that way........

 

[GirlWhoLikes2Laugh]

I don't know why the person who began this thread thinks everyone is racist in some way and that it's biological or something like that. For me, I don't consider myself a racist because I would be friends with anyone whether they're white, black, Asian, Hispanic, etc... I am Jewish and I consider that to be more of a religion than a race. The Jewish religion also has to do with culture. I think it's true that I've heard from places I've worked in the past blacks making fun of other blacks and I am assuming that other races make fun of each other, for example also like whites making fun of other whites, etc...

I also get angry when I hear about groups like the Klu Klux Klan where they believe in white superiority . I don't believe that the white race is superior over other races. That's my opinion & I am sticking to it.

 

[wendynpeter]

I don't believe that the white race is superior over other races.

Ah. How refreshing. Someone who actually knows what 'racist' means. Three cheers for Webster's. Way to go, Jen!

 

[wendynpeter]

Hadn't quite thought of it that way........

My opinions are based on more than something Mel Gibson did when he was drunk. His anti-semetism has been called into question many times. You know, it would really help the discussion if you knew what you were talking about. Like "making" "some white man" give you a job because of affirmative action.

Just so's you know, affirmative action is not a practice that's forced on anyone by law. Affirmative action is a volunatry practice. So anyone practicing affirmative action isn't being "made" to do it, or "made" to hire you. What protects you in the workplace are state and federal anti-discrimination laws. Those laws do not require affirmative action, they only require that the best qualified applicant get the job regardless of race, sex or religion. Which is very different from requiring an employer to give extra credit to an applicant because she happens to be black.

Affirmative action was adopted as a way for employers bound by state and federal anti-discrimintation laws to correct glaringly obvious past discrimination. These days, employers must be able to prove they need affirmative action policies to avoid being sued - at least in theory.

So the moral of the sorry is: Don't laugh at other people's opinions when you can't even get your facts straight.

 

[jdiko33]

Jen is right, and so are others who made the comment about the definition of racism. Very, very few people, at least in the US, would say or believe for that matter that their race is superior to anyone elses'. With that being said, I also believe that means that there's nothing wrong with taking pride in your own race and being proud of it's accomplishments. For example, I think the Indiana Black Expo held every year is great. It celebrates and recognizes the accomplishments and achievements of Blacks in the US among other great things for the Black community. On the other hand, if Whites want to feel bad about slavery from our nation's past, go ahead; but also take pride in the fact that the US led the way in abolishing slavery around the world.
One additional comment: I do believe affirmative action is a bad idea. It tells minorities that they're not good enough to make it on their own, and that they need additional help, when that's not the case at all. If minorities are looking for someone to blame, try liberals from the Johnson administration and beyond. Since then, they have treated minorities as stupid, helpless beings who need all the help from the government as they can, which of course, is not the case at all. Oh, by the way, liberals didn't help minorities very much during the civil rights movement on the 60s. Southern Democrats including Al Gore's father voted against the various Civil Rights acts passed during the the 1960s.
I agree that there are still problems regarding race in this country, but they won't get fixed until both sides can work together. Pointing the finger at one race isn't going to solve the problem. Working together does.

 

[wendynpeter]

Jen is right, and so are others who made the comment about the definition of racism. Very, very few people, at least in the US, would say or believe for that matter that their race is superior to anyone elses'. With that being said, I also believe that means that there's nothing wrong with taking pride in your own race and being proud of it's accomplishments. For example, I think the Indiana Black Expo held every year is great. It celebrates and recognizes the accomplishments and achievements of Blacks in the US among other great things for the Black community. On the other hand, if Whites want to feel bad about slavery from our nation's past, go ahead; but also take pride in the fact that the US led the way in abolishing slavery around the world.
One additional comment: I do believe affirmative action is a bad idea. It tells minorities that they're not good enough to make it on their own, and that they need additional help, when that's not the case at all. If minorities are looking for someone to blame, try liberals from the Johnson administration and beyond. Since then, they have treated minorities as stupid, helpless beings who need all the help from the government as they can, which of course, is not the case at all. Oh, by the way, liberals didn't help minorities very much during the civil rights movement on the 60s. Southern Democrats including Al Gore's father voted against the various Civil Rights acts passed during the the 1960s.
I agree that there are still problems regarding race in this country, but they won't get fixed until both sides can work together. Pointing the finger at one race isn't going to solve the problem. Working together does.

Here here! I agree completely. I think it's very important to know your history and be proud of who you are - as long as that pride doesn't translate into feelings of superiority.

Great post, jdiko!

 

[brianspencer66]

Wendy you say alot but I dont think you really get it when these women of color are trying to communicate with you. You dont see how alot of what your saying is bothersome to african americans. Its not about what the definition of what racism is its the offensive things your saying that get people riled up and most of these other posters are trying to communicate with you and your not even trying to understand their points of view nor mine as an african american male. Jaba alone has asked you several times to address the issue of Mel Gibson and Michael Richards as he sees an inconsistency in what your logic there is. Do yourself a favor and read his post.

 

[jaba]

because some statements are too stupid to be be defended, even by the arrogant"......

Wendy you say alot but I dont think you really get it when these women of color are trying to communicate with you. You dont see how alot of what your saying is bothersome to african americans. Its not about what the definition of what racism is its the offensive things your saying that get people riled up and most of these other posters are trying to communicate with you and your not even trying to understand their points of view nor mine as an african american male. Jaba alone has asked you several times to address the issue of Mel Gibson and Michael Richards as he sees an inconsistency in what your logic there is. Do yourself a favor and read his post.

oh, don't hold your breath waiting for Wendy to adress HIS OWN rediculous statements and inconsistencies....it's much easier (and safer) for him to adress and rant at the perceived inconsistencies of others...he thinks that by NOT defending his own indefensible opinions when confronted, EVERYONE will just ignore the fact that that he made them, so he can move on to attacking the opinions of others who HE doesn't agree with....if you hold your breath waiting for him to adress my questions about what to EVERYONE HERE can see are OBVIOUS inconsistencies in his rantings, you will probably die of lack of oxygen.....

But I disagree with you, Brian....this IS about what the "definition" of "racism" is.......


another little scenario, if i may?...... 😛


picture our TMF as a classroom. I was admittedly a goofball and had a good time joking with classmates, but I had fun and made decent grades in most subjects.....

but you all know that there was always one guy in the class, lets just call him "Wayne",(as in "Waynes World" ) who would be sitting in front of the class in front of the teacher, with his short sleeve white dress shirt buttoned all the way to the top, and his hair always neatly trimmed, and his arms always smugly folded because he just KNEW that HE was smarter than "all the rest of us", and he relished the chance to try to show his intellegence and "superiority" to everyone in the class, whenever he could.

Well, "Wayne" was so confident in his "superiority",that any challenges to his statements, (especially the dumb ones he made) were met with arrogance, and ignored by him, because, you see, there was NO WAY that any of Wayne's pronouncements could be challenged, for he felt everyone who was "rational" already knew he was "right", so why even go through the bother to explain his statements, even the "idiotic" ones?

So even when "Wayne" would make a particularly arrogant, offensive, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, and quite frankly, "dumb ass" statement....like, oh, I dont know, say something stupid like,

" i'll say another thing that nearly every non black person in America would agree with, and that is that there is FAR more racism in the black community than in any other racial community. And i'm talking about REAL racism, not just calling some white people rednecks.".....

something stupidly unsubstantiated and unverifiable like that, and such an moronic statement by him was challenged by me, Wayne would get this "deer in the headlights" look on his face, because he was "superior", you see, and could not believe that the "rest of us" would have "the nerve" to call him on such a dimwitted statement that was "obviously true" in "Waynes world".....

so "Wayne" usually chose the easy route....just ignore the "challengers" to his "obvious superiority", and hopefully everyone will just forget that he makes such offensive, condescending statements, and he moves on, to rip the statements of others that he disagrees with.....


the problem is.....jaba was always in the class, watching Waynes face, and Wayne's "body language", and "inferior jaba" saw by the look in Waynes eyes that Wayne was in fact actually scared to defend the statements that he made, because that would expose his true "lack" of superiority"....

see, jaba, like "toto the dog" in the "wizard of oz", would always pull that fake ass covering from "wizard Waynes" statements, and reveal "Wayne", and many, (but not all) of his statements, for what they really were.....a meager, arrogant, obvious attempt by one too cowardly to defend his own inane, offensive statements, but bullying enough to rip the comments of those he feels is " less superior".....


"goofball jaba", like toto, always pulls away that fake ass "cloak of superiority"....


class dismissed.....

 

[brianspencer66]

oh, don't hold your breath waiting for Wendy to adress HIS OWN rediculous statements and inconsistencies....it's much easier (and safer) for him to adress and rant at the perceived inconsistencies of others...he thinks that by NOT defending his own indefensible opinions when confronted, EVERYONE will just ignore the fact that that he made them, so he can move on to attacking the opinions of others who HE doesn't agree with....if you hold your breath waiting for him to adress my questions about what to EVERYONE HERE can see are OBVIOUS inconsistencies in his rantings, you will probably die of lack of oxygen.....

But I disagree with you, Brian....this IS about what the "definition" of "racism" is.......


another little scenario, if i may?...... 😛


picture our TMF as a classroom. I was admittedly a goofball and had a good time joking with classmates, but I had fun and made decent grades in most subjects.....

but you all know that there was always one guy in the class, lets just call him "Wayne",(as in "Waynes World" ) who would be sitting in front of the class in front of the teacher, with his short sleeve white dress shirt buttoned all the way to the top, and his hair always neatly trimmed, and his arms always smugly folded because he just KNEW that HE was smarter than "all the rest of us", and he relished the chance to try to show his intellegence and "superiority" to everyone in the class, whenever he could.

Well, "Wayne" was so confident in his "superiority",that any challenges to his statements, (especially the dumb ones he made) were met with arrogance, and ignored by him, because, you see, there was NO WAY that any of Wayne's pronouncements could be challenged, for he felt everyone who was "rational" already knew he was "right", so why even go through the bother to explain his statements, even the "idiotic" ones?

So even when "Wayne" would make a particularly arrogant, offensive, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, and quite frankly, "dumb ass" statement....like, oh, I dont know, say something stupid like,



something stupidly unsubstantiated and unverifiable like that, and such an moronic statement by him was challenged by me, Wayne would get this "deer in the headlights" look on his face, because he was "superior", you see, and could not believe that the "rest of us" would have "the nerve" to call him on such a dimwitted statement that was "obviously true" in "Waynes world".....

so "Wayne" usually chose the easy route....just ignore the "challengers" to his "obvious superiority", and hopefully everyone will just forget that he makes such offensive, condescending statements, and he moves on, to rip the statements of others that he disagrees with.....


the problem is.....jaba was always in the class, watching Waynes face, and Wayne's "body language", and "inferior jaba" saw by the look in Waynes eyes that Wayne was in fact actually scared to defend the statements that he made, because that would expose his true "lack" of superiority"....

see, jaba, like "toto the dog" in the "wizard of oz", would always pull that fake ass covering from "wizard Waynes" statements, and reveal "Wayne", and many, (but not all) of his statements, for what they really were.....a meager, arrogant, obvious attempt by one too cowardly to defend his own inane, offensive statements, but bullying enough to rip the comments of those he feels is " less superior".....


"goofball jaba", like toto, always pulls away that fake ass "cloak of superiority"....


class dismissed.....

Oh and Im aware the overall thread is indeed about racism. I was just trying to get away from our friends comments that he is the only one here that understands the meaning of it when that is clearly not the case.
Hmmm seems young Wayne sounds a little like someone else with a name that starts with W but gee I cant seem to recall who that is Jaba (smile). Perhaps Toto ahh I mean Jaba should pull that curtain all the way back. But perhaps that man behind the curtains will say in a booming voice "Please disregard that charlatan behind the curtain"!!!

 

[kis123]

Jen is right, and so are others who made the comment about the definition of racism. Very, very few people, at least in the US, would say or believe for that matter that their race is superior to anyone elses'. With that being said, I also believe that means that there's nothing wrong with taking pride in your own race and being proud of it's accomplishments. For example, I think the Indiana Black Expo held every year is great. It celebrates and recognizes the accomplishments and achievements of Blacks in the US among other great things for the Black community. On the other hand, if Whites want to feel bad about slavery from our nation's past, go ahead; but also take pride in the fact that the US led the way in abolishing slavery around the world.
One additional comment: I do believe affirmative action is a bad idea. It tells minorities that they're not good enough to make it on their own, and that they need additional help, when that's not the case at all. If minorities are looking for someone to blame, try liberals from the Johnson administration and beyond. Since then, they have treated minorities as stupid, helpless beings who need all the help from the government as they can, which of course, is not the case at all. Oh, by the way, liberals didn't help minorities very much during the civil rights movement on the 60s. Southern Democrats including Al Gore's father voted against the various Civil Rights acts passed during the the 1960s.
I agree that there are still problems regarding race in this country, but they won't get fixed until both sides can work together. Pointing the finger at one race isn't going to solve the problem. Working together does.

How are we going to work together when we have so many eletist and borderline racist attitudes like wendy's? You're living a pipe dream if you think so-I'm sorry to say.

It doesn't matter who voted Affirmative action and the civil rights act into law just as long as they did. That was the only way society could make up for hundreds of years of slavery, Jim Crow, dogs, hoses, beatings, lynchings, and on and on and on! The Civil Rights Act is a little over 40 years old and many feel that's enough-hundreds of years of abuse and slavery don't even come close. The government have no problem paying Native Americans for what was done to them, then I'm getting in line for what my ancestors didn't receive and then some.

How's that for knowing your history wendy?

I don't care how people perceive me, I just care that my rights as a black female are protected under the law. If the laws weren't made to protect blacks and other so-called minorities, do you think anything would've changed? Let me answer that question in my own words........NO! Some people will never accept us as a people with intelligence, work ethic, integrity. Well, just look at wendy; he pretty much puts all blacks underneath his superior feet. A mindset like that has to be forced to obey the law; if given a choice they will not honor it.

I'm glad wendy agrees with you-you're the only friend he seems to have around here.

 

[wendynpeter]

Wendy you say alot but I dont think you really get it when these women of color are trying to communicate with you. You dont see how alot of what your saying is bothersome to african americans.

SOME african americans. And yes, I do. But what I'm saying is the truth. I can't help it if the truth is bothersome.

Its not about what the definition of what racism is its the offensive things your saying that get people riled up and most of these other posters are trying to communicate with you and your not even trying to understand their points of view nor mine as an african american male. Jaba alone has asked you several times to address the issue of Mel Gibson and Michael Richards as he sees an inconsistency in what your logic there is. Do yourself a favor and read his post.

What can I say except that I believe Mel Gisbson is an anti-semite and that Michael Richards is not a racist? That's what I believe. I've said a hundred times it's my opinion.

 

[kis123]

My opinions are based on more than something Mel Gibson did when he was drunk. His anti-semetism has been called into question many times. You know, it would really help the discussion if you knew what you were talking about. Like "making" "some white man" give you a job because of affirmative action.

Just so's you know, affirmative action is not a practice that's forced on anyone by law. Affirmative action is a volunatry practice. So anyone practicing affirmative action isn't being "made" to do it, or "made" to hire you. What protects you in the workplace are state and federal anti-discrimination laws. Those laws do not require affirmative action, they only require that the best qualified applicant get the job regardless of race, sex or religion. Which is very different from requiring an employer to give extra credit to an applicant because she happens to be black.

Affirmative action was adopted as a way for employers bound by state and federal anti-discrimintation laws to correct glaringly obvious past discrimination. These days, employers must be able to prove they need affirmative action policies to avoid being sued - at least in theory.

So the moral of the sorry is: Don't laugh at other people's opinions when you can't even get your facts straight.

My goodness; this is beginning to become pathetic!

Gibson was drunk enough to tell how he felt about a group of people. Does it make him racist? I don't think so, but you do. Michael Richards was COLD STONE SOBER when he screamed racial obsenities out of his sick mouth and you defend him as not being a racist? You have one helluva way of rationalizing behavior don't you? Or do you wish it was you on that stage screaming how you really feel about blacks? Is that why you practically idolize the man wendy? Is that why you protect him and give him the benefit of no-doubt (that is to everyone else who saw the tape)?

Let's talk about some of those facts you claim I don't have straight. The Civil Rights Act is a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT-tell me when you get the right to voluntarily disobey an amendment? Corporations have to obey the law plain and simple. If they don't the offended can seek legal counsel and publicly bring the company to its knees!

National City Bank, Ohio Savings Bank, Dennys are just a few examples of getting burned in lawsuits for racial discrimination. It's protected by the law wendy, plain and simple. That's what the LAW was desgined for wendy, to protect from racial discrimination. Is it beginning to remotely sink in who knows their facts and who glaringly doesn't?

You're spitting in the wind with your romper room kindergarten playground insults. It's your way of throwing off the scent of your real motives and attitude. It's okay wendy; the first step is admitting a problem exists-the sooner you do, the better off you'll (and a lot of others) feel.

But keep wallowing in your steroetypes, rhetoric, and loaded bigoted statements. Try to convince everyone that you know history and your facts in one statement, and I and others will tear them down no sooner than you upload them to this thread.

While you're doing that, my daughter will continue to attend college until she graduates with her degree. She'll be one more college-educated black woman society has to deal with. This is the same person who was told by a fellow white teammate yesterday that she didn't know that black people knew how to play board games! How glaringly ignorant is that?

While you're doing that, I'll still be studying for my MBA in a school where blacks outnumber all other races nearly 3:1. Then I'll be prepared to take what I don't expect society to give me based on some sort of "entitlement."

When my supervisor and Regional Vice President of my company found out I was studying for my MBA, some very interesting things happened. Suddenly, I wasn't getting the glowing reviews previously received. They're scared that I'm gunning for thelr lousy jobs; I wouldn't take their job for twice the money-it simply isn't worth it and I know I can do better than what these clowns can offer me. I wonder what would explain the about-face wendy? Could it be that they have no interest having to answer to a woman of color? Could it be that they're trying to maintain their lousy jobs? Why is it that in the 20 year history of this company's existance that there's been no black person in management? Let me guess, in 20 years they could find no one smart enough or competant enough to run a four-person sales team that my autistic son could run blindfolded with his hands tied behind his back.

I know of a movie you can rent at your local video store; it's called "watermelon man." It's a story about a racist bigoted white man who went to sleep one night and woke up with the darkest black skin you've ever seen. He had to live the life of a black man and his experiences weren't pretty at all. He eventually had to renounce his racist ways before he was returned to his world. I think you may learn something from it-if you give me your address, I'll be happy to get a copy sent to you. Maybe you'll learn something then; then again....I won't hold my breath!

 

[wendynpeter]

How are we going to work together when we have so many eletist and borderline racist attitudes like wendy's?

I'm not the least bit racist. Call me an elitist if my having expectations that all people should act like decent human beings bothers you.

It doesn't matter who voted Affirmative action and the civil rights act into law just as long as they did.

Jesus. One more time. Affirmative Action is NOT a law. And I have absolutely not said anything negative about the civil rights acts. Yes, acts. There was more than one. Just so's you know. I wish I didn't have to teach you civil rights law in order to have this discussion...

I don't care how people perceive me, I just care that my rights as a black female are protected under the law.

I care about your civil rights under the law as well. I care about EVERYone's civil rights under the law.

I'm glad wendy agrees with you-you're the only friend he seems to have around here.

THAT's hardly true.