In Defense of Michael Vick

[scottg]

well

Under Vick's logic if football players were killed for poor performance, Vick would have been killed years ago!!!!! He is a PUNK!!!

 

[Redmage]

To say he knew exactly what he was doing is fair enough, but to say he knew it was wrong is an assumption. Maybe Vick actually didn't know it was against the law? I'm not saying he did and I'm not saying he didn't. I'm saying maybe he didn't know.

Oh, please. Even Vick hasn't tried that defense, because it's ludicrous. He was involved in dog fighting on a large scale, for money. It was a business for him. Everyone involved in that business knows it's illegal, just like drug dealers know what they do is illegal.

Suggesting that Vick could have been buying, raising, fighting, killing, and gambling on dogs for half a decade without figuring out that it's illegal is simply laughable. If you're reduced to this kind of desperation measure to defend your hero then you need to take a step back and look at it.

And in those five years he also did a thousand other things too. The good of which is obviously being ignored because it didn't involve the life of animals that died.

That's because no good that he did changes the fact that he tortures and kills animals. Why do you suppose it should? It doesn't have anything to do with animals per se though. If he was a serial killer the fact he gave lots of money to widows and orphans (or even animal shelters) wouldn't change peoples' opinions of that.

Anyway you look at it those dogs were going to die.

Clearly you didn't read the charges well. Several of those dogs were killed after brief "test fights" in which it appeared that they just weren't going to be vicious enough to suit Vick's purposes. It didn't have anything to do with injuries. Nor did he seek veterinary care that could have saved the lives of injured dogs. Once it appeared that they weren't going to win fights for him, he had them killed.

You're defending Vick based on a fantasy redaction of his actions, not what he actually did.

Be it inhumane as it was, I would rather die as they did than die a slow death over a course of days or even a week.

Great. So you do condone it after all? If not, then why not? You certainly make it sound like a good thing.

 

[Redmage]

i understand that killing dogs is wrong..i hadn't realized it was illegal...and why are there federal charges?

Killing dogs isn't illegal if it's done humanely and for good reason - to spare them unavoidable suffering or to put down a dangerous animal.

The federal charges came because Vick was involved in an illegal gambling operation that crossed state lines.

 

[steph]

Um...No. It's nowhere NEAR a different scenario, unless your argument is that since he was going to be a cruel tormentor, the least he could have done was make himself appear to be the sadist with a heart. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at you.

I am saying he should have prepared for the inevitable, being such a huge star and all. It's the CYA theory. You're rich, you're famous=you live under a microscope, NOTHING you do is protected territory. The fact is, even as puppies, these dogs are most likely worthless~you can't adopt them out. Killing them is the only option, he could have at least prepared to have it done humanely. As a fierce animal rights activist, I can vouch that the uproar would've been greatly reduced.

It is my position that Vick is a piece of shit, plain and simple.

On this we agree.


You can interject whatever mitigating conditions you wish, i.e.; "an on-call vetrinarian available 24/7 to humanely euthanize these dogs." (You were kidding when you wrote that, right?)

I was not. Refer to my first response. It's completely do-able if he'd given a rat's ass. He didn't, it's clear and he'll pay dearly for it.

So, my point is simple: Yes, find his ass guilty and mete out the appropriate punishment, and while you're at it, lets take advantage of the public's sudden conscience on this issue and shine a little more light on other EQUALLY atrocious acts of terrorism and violence comitted against animals everywhere.

It's not sudden. Refer to my previous comments on the story in other posts. Animal rights groups have been dying for YEARS for a star of this magnitude to bring attention in order to up the penalties against pigs like this. He made himself their poster boy which is EXACTLY what they wanted and they are laughing their asses off, and rightly so as they march down to their neareast legislator's office.

I would have hoped you and I were saying the same thing, but after reading your post, it appears that your underlying concern is that he wasn't smart enough to prepare a contingency for his cowardly acts, rather than refraining from doing them in the first place. 😕

Again, I'd refer you to my other posts in previous threads. You came late to the party I think, and I truly don't mean that as any sort of attack. I have been openly outraged about his actions from the get-go. I am sure, like me, you're busy~but I'll be happy to dig them up for you if you request proof of such.
XOXO

 

[Heeko]

As originator of this thread, as far as my involvement is concerned this thread is now over. I feel it has run it's course and is becoming a war of squabbles amongst individuals, which offers no contribution to the TMF.

I would like to thank Redmage for his insightful and researched replies. Thank you my friend and it has been great getting to know you.

The purpose of this thread was to allow members to express their feelings on this emotional issue.

Michael Vick is not my friend and not my hero. I really don't care if he goes to jail and rots there. I simply chose the title "In Defense of Michael Vick" to gain attention. With this being the 130th post, mostly productive, I would say this has been successful in allowing everyone to vent their feelings on this issue.

Thanks again to Redmage, Capnmad, Steph, Isabeau and everyone who contributed quality posts to this thread.

Also thanks to lk70 for being a friend.

It has been nice getting to know you all and I look forward to further discussions here at TMF.

Take care,
Heeko

 

[ShadowTklr]

Again, I'd refer you to my other posts in previous threads. You came late to the party I think, and I truly don't mean that as any sort of attack. I have been openly outraged about his actions from the get-go. I am sure, like me, you're busy~but I'll be happy to dig them up for you if you request proof of such.
XOXO

No need. I saw them. I understand your position better now. sorry for the misunderstanding. 😉

 

[steph]

Thank you m'sweets. You know I've always respected you. This is a super emotional issue. I think because I actively work in my free time to make change, I'm uber-sensitive. It's nice when it's recognized. I don't just care about this stuff, I do something about it. I wish more folks would do same.
Luv ya!
XOXO

No need. I saw them. I understand your position better now. sorry for the misunderstanding. 😉

 

[GirlWhoLikes2Laugh]

I understand that Michael Vick has done a lot of good things. However, dog fighting is a form of animal abuse and it's wrong . I heard that sometimes they cut off the dog's ears before the fight which I think is terrible in itself . Anyway, I know he's a great football player who already makes a huge salary so I am confused 😕 why he'd want to make any more money on the side with having dog fights.

 

[natural tickler]

Again, I say you guys care more about the welfare of animals than humans. I also will say again that the animals are on top of the food chain. I guess I can go kill someone and a peep won't be heard. Kill a dog, though, get ready for backlash


Newsflash people, dogfighting is and always will be a sport

 

[cloudgazer2k]

Again, I say you guys care more about the welfare of animals than humans. I also will say again that the animals are on top of the food chain. I guess I can go kill someone and a peep won't be heard. Kill a dog, though, get ready for backlash


Newsflash people, dogfighting is and always will be a sport

how wrong you are, on all accounts.

 

[CitY of MicA]

top dog

Again, I say you guys care more about the welfare of animals than humans. I also will say again that the animals are on top of the food chain. I guess I can go kill someone and a peep won't be heard. Kill a dog, though, get ready for backlash

I addressed your comments in the last thread pertaining to Vick, but I'll do so again since it's been more or less requested. I respectfully disagree with your perception of the attitudes being put forth in this thread. However, for the sake of watching myself type, let's say everyone here other than yourself cares more about the welfare of animals than humans. And? Everyone's entitled to their feelings. How does that make a difference? As long as people perform their jobs and duties as they should, I don't see how that matters. Unless we as humans really need to band together. Are we no longer at the top of the food chain due to dog predation ?

So would you say that had Vick and his partners tortured and killed 37 people, there would be less of a broohaha? You and I must disagree on this issue.

 

[Redmage]

Again, I say you guys care more about the welfare of animals than humans. I also will say again that the animals are on top of the food chain. I guess I can go kill someone and a peep won't be heard. Kill a dog, though, get ready for backlash


Newsflash people, dogfighting is and always will be a sport

Both of these statements are so ridiculous that I've just got to hear the reasoning behind them.

 

[natural tickler]

Both of these statements are so ridiculous that I've just got to hear the reasoning behind them.

Very well, Redmage, allow me to indulge

As some of the examples I made earlier in this thread, other athletes have participated in crimes to me that are much much worse than what Vick is going thru. And these are crimes against human beings. Yet and still, there is not much hubbub about them, and the players keep playing in thier respective sports and nothing more is said.

These players not only get to keep playing, but have mega million endorsement deals, and the like

However, because Vick decided to get involved with the gambling, and in the world of dogfighting, he gets crucified, polarized as a dog killer. It just seem strange about the public outcry of what happened to these animals, I agree no animal should be subjected to the treatment given when no longer useful, that part I am against. However, people get involved in cockfighting, bullfighting, and not much rage happens. But the fighting part of dogfighting, I have no problems with. Two dogs fighting to the finish. Newsflash, this happens everyday on the streets when stray dogs fight for survival, and where they can find their scraps. This is no different than when they are put in a pit

Look, I do own a dog, and I love my dog. However, I will never put my pet on the same level as me and my family. I do know what place my pet should be in. The problem is, people put their pets on the same level as their family.

Reason I am saying it is a sport, I put it on the same level of combat as the MMA/UFC type of cagefighting. It is barbaric, but a sport nonetheless

Yanno, back in ancient days, fighters fought each other to the death. Do we condemn that as much as we do cock/dog/bull fighting?? Of course not, because why, we label it as sport

Red, hope this clears it up for you

and btw, where is the proof that Vick was hands on in the killing of such dogs??

 

[natural tickler]

I addressed your comments in the last thread pertaining to Vick, but I'll do so again since it's been more or less requested. I respectfully disagree with your perception of the attitudes being put forth in this thread. However, for the sake of watching myself type, let's say everyone here other than yourself cares more about the welfare of animals than humans. And? Everyone's entitled to their feelings. How does that make a difference? As long as people perform their jobs and duties as they should, I don't see how that matters. Unless we as humans really need to band together. Are we no longer at the top of the food chain due to dog predation ?

So would you say that had Vick and his partners tortured and killed 37 people, there would be less of a broohaha? You and I must disagree on this issue.

The reason I am coming with this perception is because it just seems to me the level of outrage over animals is crazy, but when people are raped and murdered do we see this outrage on this level?? You and I both know this doesn't exist. All I am saying is if you have outrage with Vick, you are free to do so. Let's just be consistent when other athletes/people perform crimes that are just as heinous, show the same amount of contempt. Let's not just sweep one man's crimes under the rug and then blast someone else wholeheartedly. That is all I am saying. When Kobe and Ray Lewis did what they did, I didn't see a whole lot of protest at all. I didn't see a lot of outrage and condemnation.

I hope that clears this up

 

[kis123]

Very well, Redmage, allow me to indulge

As some of the examples I made earlier in this thread, other athletes have participated in crimes to me that are much much worse than what Vick is going thru. And these are crimes against human beings. Yet and still, there is not much hubbub about them, and the players keep playing in thier respective sports and nothing more is said.

These players not only get to keep playing, but have mega million endorsement deals, and the like

However, because Vick decided to get involved with the gambling, and in the world of dogfighting, he gets crucified, polarized as a dog killer. It just seem strange about the public outcry of what happened to these animals, I agree no animal should be subjected to the treatment given when no longer useful, that part I am against. However, people get involved in cockfighting, bullfighting, and not much rage happens. But the fighting part of dogfighting, I have no problems with. Two dogs fighting to the finish. Newsflash, this happens everyday on the streets when stray dogs fight for survival, and where they can find their scraps. This is no different than when they are put in a pit

Look, I do own a dog, and I love my dog. However, I will never put my pet on the same level as me and my family. I do know what place my pet should be in. The problem is, people put their pets on the same level as their family.

Reason I am saying it is a sport, I put it on the same level of combat as the MMA/UFC type of cagefighting. It is barbaric, but a sport nonetheless

Yanno, back in ancient days, fighters fought each other to the death. Do we condemn that as much as we do cock/dog/bull fighting?? Of course not, because why, we label it as sport

I dropped out of this thread for awhile because it looked as if I was the only one who felt this way. Now there are two of us and it looks like that's about it. Pets are pets and people are people; an animal is NOT on my level in my home or anywhere else!

This is still not a reason to take away a man's career IMO. Well, the athletic world now knows that they can rape, murder, and commit unspeakable acts against humanity, but they better look out for the puppy dogs!

 

[natural tickler]

I dropped out of this thread for awhile because it looked as if I was the only one who felt this way. Now there are two of us and it looks like that's about it. Pets are pets and people are people; an animal is NOT on my level in my home or anywhere else!

This is still not a reason to take away a man's career IMO. Well, the athletic world now knows that they can rape, murder, and commit unspeakable acts against humanity, but they better look out for the puppy dogs!

Isn't that crazy kis?? when you look at the food chain, the dogs are on top, and we are about 98 rungs down!!!

strange world we live in indeed

 

[kis123]

Isn't that crazy kis?? when you look at the food chain, the dogs are on top, and we are about 98 rungs down!!!

strange world we live in indeed

I do want to make sure I clear the air on this; what Vick participated in was horrible and he deserves punishment. But I don't feel it's worth taking his career over especially when others have done much worse to PEOPLE.

I've given my opinion and I'm pretty much done with it.

 

[Dr. Vollin]

Well, the athletic world now knows that they can rape, murder, and commit unspeakable acts against humanity, but they better look out for the puppy dogs!

Rae Carruth doesn't know that.

 

[drew70]

I dropped out of this thread for awhile because it looked as if I was the only one who felt this way. Now there are two of us and it looks like that's about it. Pets are pets and people are people; an animal is NOT on my level in my home or anywhere else!

This is still not a reason to take away a man's career IMO. Well, the athletic world now knows that they can rape, murder, and commit unspeakable acts against humanity, but they better look out for the puppy dogs!

Well, people have lost careers over far less. Look at Don Imus and Michael Richards. You can lose a career just for words that come out of your mouth.

Just because we humans have greater intelligence and communication skills than dogs, doesn't make us any better then they. It just means we have greater responsibilities. Anybody who thinks they are above the animals is in my opinion beneath them.

 

[cloudgazer2k]

I dropped out of this thread for awhile because it looked as if I was the only one who felt this way. Now there are two of us and it looks like that's about it. Pets are pets and people are people; an animal is NOT on my level in my home or anywhere else!

This is still not a reason to take away a man's career IMO. Well, the athletic world now knows that they can rape, murder, and commit unspeakable acts against humanity, but they better look out for the puppy dogs!

that is still not true. sure, people get extremely upset about people committing unspeakable acts on animals, but the same people can get equally, if not even moreso, upset about the unspeakable acts on humans. the difference? it takes a cruel person do to terrible things to animals, and an evil one to do terrible things to a human. to use only this thread as an example that we care the most of the wrongful death and abuse of animals is wrong to do so.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Well, people have lost careers over far less. Look at Don Imus and Michael Richards. You can lose a career just for words that come out of your mouth.

Just because we humans have greater intelligence and communication skills than dogs, doesn't make us any better then they. It just means we have greater responsibilities. Anybody who thinks they are above the animals is in my opinion beneath them.

It doesn't even make sense to compare humans and animals.

 

[kis123]

Well, people have lost careers over far less. Look at Don Imus and Michael Richards. You can lose a career just for words that come out of your mouth.

Just because we humans have greater intelligence and communication skills than dogs, doesn't make us any better then they. It just means we have greater responsibilities. Anybody who thinks they are above the animals is in my opinion beneath them.

The good news is that your opinion is exactly what it is--an opinion! And we all know what those can be like right?

You can think whatever you want because I feel I'm highly above animals and am not ashamed to say so. How about that for an opinion? It should be safe to assume at this point, I don't much care what you or anyone else here thinks; you have your opinion and I have mine and I haven't been disrespectful to anyone here. I expect the same treatment, but I can't control how you behave online and I'm not about to try. If you want to be on the same level with an animal, knock yourself out-that's your business.

I didn't agree with what happened to Imus or Richards, but at least the outrage was over HUMAN BEINGS! I didn't think Imus should've been fired and I can care less about Richards' washed-up, has-been self! He's an idiot who doesn't deserve my time or attention.

And again, I say that Vick should be punished for what he did. I don't support or condone his behavior. I still do not agree that his job should be taken for it when so many athletes commit crimes against human beings and get away with it as well as keep their jobs. How about we stick to that?

 

[kis123]

that is still not true. sure, people get extremely upset about people committing unspeakable acts on animals, but the same people can get equally, if not even moreso, upset about the unspeakable acts on humans. the difference? it takes a cruel person do to terrible things to animals, and an evil one to do terrible things to a human. to use only this thread as an example that we care the most of the wrongful death and abuse of animals is wrong to do so.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I am not wrong at all. Go through some of these threads and see if you can find 148 responses to crimes against humanity. But you will find 148 responses to animals.

Look, I have my feelings on the issue and you have yours. Neither of us are going to change our minds on it. Let's just agree to disagree okay?

 

[kis123]

It doesn't even make sense to compare humans and animals.

No it doesn't to me either. But it's being done as we type isn't it?😱

 

[primetime]

i wasnt going to join this thread, but i need to put my two cents in.

Kis, Vick is NOT losing his career over dogfighting. He is losing his career over G-A-M-B-L-I-N-G. Again, not dogfighting, but GAMBLING. Since Michael Vick was essentially a casino for the dogfighting ring, that goes against NFL bylaws. That is why the NFL is suspending Vick. This is not the first time in sports that an athlete is barred from his sport because of gambling. Remember Pete Rose? Vick was GAMBLING. I hope you understand this. Not dogfighting, but GAMBLING. Is that clear enough?

Natural tickler, first of all, your memory is short. What do you mean where is the outrage when Kobe was accused? Do me a favor, go back into searching threads and you will find the outrage against Kobe Bryant. As for Ray Lewis, this forum didnt exist when Ray was going through his stuff. Vick did some pretty sick and twisted things. His guilty plea is essentially saying he participated on the killings. And as for the "it's only an animal" thing, let Vick murder someone and you will see the same outrage. How many athletes do you know murder someone, then are allowed to still play their sport? Can you tell me one?

I think the defenders of Vick should realize what they are defending. You have people saying his career shouldnt be over because of dogfighting and another saying "why all the outrage?" Well, once again, gambling (and prison) is what is causing Vick to not play football and what he did totally justifies the outrage. Now, if you really have doubt about people placing animals before humans, do you REALLY believe that if Vick killed 37 people in the same manner he killed those 37 dogs, that the outrage wouldnt be even worse? If you think not, then man, I dont know what world you live in. I highly doubt a mass murderer will still toss a few TD passes in the NFL.