Is the word Fagot not offensive anymore?

[Deleted member 66627]

I think some folks should take into consideration that this is one of those threads that we get once in awhile that have true and solid emotion backed to them. And that although we're all very proud of our opinions, some things are better off just left and not needed to be barreled down people's throats.

Especially if we have never had to deal with situations like some others have.

 

[meangry]

No word choices should be limited. I'm sure people censor themselves at their jobs and in the manner in which they must adhere to appearance, but if it's a customer, or someone on the street, they can say anything they want to you. And in reality, you can say anything back. 1st Amendment does protect all speech, including hate speech.

Do I go out of my way to say terminology like ************, ************, pussy, or whatever? No. Do I say those words? Yes. I also belittle the Polish, German, and Irish, and I am proud of all of those because those make up my heritage. Words only have as much power as you want them to have.

But still, no. In reality, I don't care if I said it in a post you came across and it offended you. And I don't care if I said it and you overheard on the street and it offended you. The you is generalized here.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Let me get this straight. You don't go out of your way to offend people. Except for certain situations. Then you'd go out of your way to offend people. To make a point. Which is more important than the feelings and emotions of others.

If I believe that in making a point, I can change someone else's view on something, I will. In the short term, that might mean making someone angry.

So we should have evolved past words hurting, but we haven't evolved past purposely and knowingly hurting others with words just to 'prove' something. Alrighty then

Life is paradoxical in many respects.

It's not about the words themselves. It's about the history, the pain, and the memories of fear and terror and perceived inferiority those words can dredge up. It's about the fact that purposely using those words knowing that they *can* hurt someone makes one an insensitive bully no matter what spin they want to put on it. My grandmother is 88 yrs old, and she left the deep south in the 1930's because of how people of color were being treated; she saw friends murdered and families destroyed. When she was just 11 yrs old her father was shot and killed by white men who came to her door calling for the '************' to come out. Sit with her and ask her about the word '************' and then talk to me about our evolution. If you really want to feel evolved and enlightened, show some empathy and compassion for history and suffering that weren't yours.

If true suffering is involved, I can understand the emotions connected. However, the majority of people who get offended by words today did not experience these extremes.

So, to clarify, for those that have personally experienced such things, sure, I understand the offense and will act accordingly. For everyone else, I don't make such exceptions.

 

[Bohemianne]

I don't like the use of the terms on any level from anyone, but I don't control what comes out of someone else's mouth no matter how ignorant and insensitive it is. I personally don't use said words because I see no intelligent use for them.

Agreed.

 

[sasaxrah]

1st Amendment does protect all speech, including hate speech.

Just because it's protected doesn't mean you should. I would never make a word illegal. And that's not totally true anyway. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater.

Do I go out of my way to say terminology like ************, ************, pussy, or whatever? No. Do I say those words? Yes. I also belittle the Polish, German, and Irish, and I am proud of all of those because those make up my heritage. Words only have as much power as you want them to have.

OK, so you belittle Polish, German, and Irish people because you identify as such. So this justifies belittling blacks, gays, and women why? You are a black lesbian?

Being a minority gives you ownership over hateful words that could be used against you - you can reject or reclaim them.

But still, no. In reality, I don't care if I said it in a post you came across and it offended you. And I don't care if I said it and you overheard on the street and it offended you. The you is generalized here.

No one is saying you have to care. However, if you don't give any consideration to the feelings of safety and acceptance of others around you, you're a jerk, sorry. We are social animals and we have to live with each other.

If true suffering is involved, I can understand the emotions connected. However, the majority of people who get offended by words today did not experience these extremes.

Um, who are you to decide true suffering? Where's the line? How did you come up this "majority of people" statistic? Because if you really want to do research, 86.2% of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender youth reported experiencing harassment at school last year. See www.glsen.org for more information.

I'm a queer, Jewish woman. I've experience homophobia. I've experienced anti-Semitism. I've experienced sexism. Do I need to outline the specific examples to you in order to be allowed to be offended?

 

[ViperGTS]

I talked about this with Sapphire, and we've sort of come to a conclusion.

One can only take responsibility for oneself, and can't expect others to do the right things. Therefore, on the topic of racial slurs or other derogatory remarks, if someone calls you a name that you find offensive, it's you who controls whether or not you react negatively to the word. If you allow a word like '************', '************', or 'fangbanger' to offend you, then in my opinion, that is your own fault. If you can't rise up and be the bigger person, how can you expect other to, and complain when they don't?

The whole reason that black people like to use the word '************' is because it takes the power out of the word. It's interpereted as a sign of friendship and comradery, and therefore there is no reason to be offended by it.

It takes a lot to be able to treat it as just a word, considering how much pain has been behind it all these years. However, like I said, in order to eliminate it's power, the people that get offended by it need to stop allowing it to upset them, because, let's face it, there will ALWAYS be ignorant people in this world who will ALWAYS use derogatory remarks to piss others off, but only you can help prevent forest fires choose how to react to them.

Who's the bigger person?

 

[kis123]

If I believe that in making a point, I can change someone else's view on something, I will. In the short term, that might mean making someone angry.

And if you're wrong and the person doesn't change their mind to your POV, you've managed to unnecessarily piss them off. I see no value in that, but if you do, rock on!

If true suffering is involved, I can understand the emotions connected. However, the majority of people who get offended by words today did not experience these extremes.

And you know that how?? If someone doesn't discuss their personal experiences with you, how do you know what they've been through?

Unless you know someone since birth, you have no idea what their experiences have been. Unless I told you that my then 16 year old autistic son was harrassed by police because he was in the "wrong" neighborhood and looked "suspicious", would you know that? Unless I told you my biracial daughter gets picked apart on the racial issue regularly, would you know? Unless I told you that I can't find a job unless I straighten my hair and not look so "ethnic", would you know? Or that as children if my sister and I needed to get to certain places, we'd better be carrying something prepared to fight the ************-screaming whites on their porches? Would you know any of that Mac unless I told you?

You are loosely assuming beacuse we live in "better times" that these things no longer exist. Well, they do and unfortunately are a part of us whether it's about race, sexual orientation, or whatever discrimination issue happens to be on the table.

So, to clarify, for those that have personally experienced such things, sure, I understand the offense and will act accordingly. For everyone else, I don't make such exceptions.

And so to clarify, it's inappropriate to determine who has and hasn't had the experiences you claim haven't happened to them. Unless someone tells you, you don't know what they've been through. What's considered minimal to you could be earth-shattering to someone else. I'll ask again, why take the risk especially when it's truly unnecessary?

 

[kis123]

Has the amount of people who display this flagrant idiocy throughout the world declined in the past 70+ years? Yes, by FAR.

Declined, yes. Still existant.....yes. When high school kids are hanging nooses under a tree, we still have a long way to go. When gays are being beaten over nothing but their sexual preferences, we still have a long way to go. When muslims in this country had to remove their head wraps and women forced to remove their cultural dress because of backwoods patriotism, we are still a-struggling here. Although I am proud to be an American, I'm not very proud of its history or by some of the stuff still going on today.

Are the topics of racism and discrimination nearly as much of a problem today as they were in that timeframe? Not even close.

The world of then and the world of now are two very different places. Just because you still periodically see events that depict racism and discrimination does not mean that society is exactly the same way it was and has not evolved in any way. Society has evolved and there is much less racism in the world, but no one will be happy (myself included) until it is eliminated entirely.

Society has not evolved as much as it's become more covert in regards to discrimination. Even I didn't know how much the race issue is still hot until President Obama came on the scene. I've heard my share of so called jokes, I've even read where forum members right here were all but disowned by family members for voting a black man into office. We might be overcoming, but we're still undergoing where it comes to race. There are still places where women cannot advance in the same manner as men (the military comes to mind here) and we still are not paid equally for the same work. I have gay friends and family members that are treated like dirt because they love their same gender. I've had too many of them tell me that they wish they weren't gay....."if I could be straight, I would be" is a common line I get. I'll probably never completely understand homosexuality, especially lesbianism because I'm a hard wired hetero and as much as they get on my nerves, I love men. But it doesn't mean I haven't learned a lot over the last several years and I have nothing but respect for them.

What I find amusing is the definition of the word '************' - strictly speaking, it refers to an "ignorant person." Since a white person calling a black person a '************' shows severe ignorance on the white persons' part, since they most likely do not know how intelligent the black person is, and therefore are proving themselves to, in fact, be the '************.'

I wish I could get my hands on an old Webster's dictionary because that wasn't the definition in the 60s and 70s versions. I remember reading that in my teens and was pretty disgusted.

Yes times have changed and we are reaping benefits of those who fought and died for equal rights and better times. But the struggle still continues and it's a pity when you get down to it. We should be much further as people than we are..........

Oh and to answer the question from your latest post, the "bigger person" is NOT the one who has to reduce conversation to racial slurs or discriminatory insults in order to look bigger than he/she actually is. The bigger person wouldn't even stoop to such levels. I don't feel that I or anyone else should have to suck it up when bullies attack; I've sucked up insults and bullying all my life and have no reason to do it anymore. Goes back to what bella said "don't start shit, there won't be shit!" No one has an idea how another will respond to those words so whatever happens to them in consequence is their own fault IMO.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Let me get this straight. You don't go out of your way to offend people. Except for certain situations. Then you'd go out of your way to offend people. To make a point. Which is more important than the feelings and emotions of others.

Of course. Great liturature, comedy and speeches are all about that. For centuries. Worldwide.

Humans are both amazing and ugly. How people think it's all going to come to screetching peace-and-love, mutual-respect halt is baffling. That conceprt takes into account neither my feelings nor my intellect. Which ultimately proveds the point: toes have many funtions. To be occasioanlly, selectively, stepped upon is one of their bleaker functions.

 

[ViperGTS]

Oh and to answer the question from your latest post, the "bigger person" is NOT the one who has to reduce conversation to racial slurs or discriminatory insults in order to look bigger than he/she actually is. The bigger person wouldn't even stoop to such levels. I don't feel that I or anyone else should have to suck it up when bullies attack; I've sucked up insults and bullying all my life and have no reason to do it anymore. Goes back to what bella said "don't start shit, there won't be shit!" No one has an idea how another will respond to those words so whatever happens to them in consequence is their own fault IMO.

So in other words, two wrongs make a right?

Sorry, but I disagree. It takes a very strong person to be able to let a derogatory and hurtful word roll off their backs.

People use namecalling to ellicit a reaction of anger, rage, and resenment. WIthout the ability to get that kind of reaction, the words lose their meaning and become powerless. If you always react negatively when someone calls you a certain name, you are willingly giving them the power to hurt you. By saying that you refuse to take that power away from them because you don't think you should "have to," then in my opinion, you deserve to be hurt by what they are saying since you're refusing to take the moral high ground.

Also, by continuing to make the concious decision to get angry when someone calls you a dergoatory word, YOU are helping to fuel the problem of discrimination in this society.

I'm not defending the use of words like '************', 'spic', '************', or whatever (when used in a derogatory way), so don't get it twisted - I wish it were as easy as making people stop using them alltogether for negativity. All I am saying is that if you want to fix a problem, don't just whine and bitch about what others are doing wrong - take some initiative and show some responsibility and strength of character and do your part to help fix things.

 

[Soda Bobinski]

Please feel free to watch the entire clip , but at about the 7:30 point , pay attention to what George has to say :


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WeDv8ZT-K3g&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WeDv8ZT-K3g&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


... & since it gets cut short at the end , here's the rest of it :


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ixE4-i46fc4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ixE4-i46fc4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[ViperGTS]

Oh man, I love George Carlin. Rest in Peace, you cracker ass honky motherfucker. 😀

 

[kis123]

So in other words, two wrongs make a right?

Sorry, but I disagree. It takes a very strong person to be able to let a derogatory and hurtful word roll off their backs.

People use namecalling to ellicit a reaction of anger, rage, and resenment. WIthout the ability to get that kind of reaction, the words lose their meaning and become powerless. If you always react negatively when someone calls you a certain name, you are willingly giving them the power to hurt you. By saying that you refuse to take that power away from them because you don't think you should "have to," then in my opinion, you deserve to be hurt by what they are saying since you're refusing to take the moral high ground.

Also, by continuing to make the concious decision to get angry when someone calls you a dergoatory word, YOU are helping to fuel the problem of discrimination in this society.

I'm not defending the use of words like '************', 'spic', '************', or whatever (when used in a derogatory way), so don't get it twisted - I wish it were as easy as making people stop using them alltogether for negativity. All I am saying is that if you want to fix a problem, don't just whine and bitch about what others are doing wrong - take some initiative and show some responsibility and strength of character and do your part to help fix things.

I respect your disagreement, however.....

How do you figure the offended is wrong to get angry? That person did nothing wrong before the confrontation and a person has the right to defend themself including in a word exchange. If it ends up more violently it would be unfortunate and I still wouldn't blame the 2nd party. When someone starts trouble someone's going to end up finishing it.

Maybe, just maybe, I'd walk away in a private moment. But if it's public, it's on because I don't care what the word is then; I don't do public humiliation. I did enough of that as a kid and I don't have to be abused and bullied anymore. Whatever happens to the purpetrator at that point is his/her own problem--not mine.

And how do you justify me being the problem fuelling the fires of discrimination when I'm not the one name calling and mud slinging? Sorry Viper, I don't agree-that is the person who does this, not me. If you want discrimination to end, stop with the names because they are the reflection of the person using them, not me. I've never used the words "cracker", honky, fag, ************, or anything else. I'm not adding to the fuel by any means.

Whether I use those words or not, they will always hold negative history and emotions to them. One thing I know about bullies is that ignoring them doesn't make them go away; only dealing with them head on sends them packing.

 

[Mister Scruff]

The world of then and the world of now are two very different places. Just because you still periodically see events that depict racism and discrimination does not mean that society is exactly the same way it was and has not evolved in any way. Society has evolved and there is much less racism in the world, but no one will be happy (myself included) until it is eliminated entirely.

This - to an extent. You only have to look at the jubilation surrounding America's election of it's first black president to see that there's a shitload more work still to be done. Barack Obama is possessed of a highly sophisticated intellect, he's extremely eloquent, keenly intelligent and was quite obviously the best candidate for the job. In fact, looking back through the collective shite that you lot have elected over the past 50 years, he'd probably have been the best candidate in most races.

Why, then, given his obvious qualities and stature, was the fact that he is black was celebrated more than the fact he was the best man for the job by a country mile?

That's the kind of wrong-headed bullshit that people need to denude themselves of before racism can ever really be consigned to the scrapheap of irrelevence where it belongs.

What I find amusing is the definition of the word '************' - strictly speaking, it refers to an "ignorant person."

It's actually derived from the term "negroid", which was the generic term to describe African people back in the days when western folks thought they were some kind of master race and the Africans were one step up from monkeys. There's a clear and obvious reason why someone who identifies with that term would find it offensive.

The reason someone would find the word "************" mortally offensive are less clear, because that derives from an old English slang word used to describe cantankerous old women. No dehumanising there, just the suggestion of effeminacy and cantankerousness. Ohnoes.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

The reason someone would find the word "************" mortally offensive are less clear, because that derives from an old English slang word used to describe cantankerous old women. No dehumanising there, just the suggestion of effeminacy and cantankerousness. Ohnoes.

Despite how it came to be, doesn't mean it evolved the same way. That word unfortunately evolved into one with hate attached to it. -- It's also managed to evolve again; still holding hate, but not always. Depending on context.

 

[kis123]

You only have to look at the jubilation surrounding America's election of it's first black president to see that there's a shitload more work still to be done. Barack Obama is possessed of a highly sophisticated intellect, he's extremely eloquent, keenly intelligent and was quite obviously the best candidate for the job. In fact, looking back through the collective shite that you lot have elected over the past 50 years, he'd probably have been the best candidate in most races.

Why, then, given his obvious qualities and stature, was the fact that he is black was celebrated more than the fact he was the best man for the job by a country mile?

That's the kind of wrong-headed bullshit that people need to denude themselves of before racism can ever really be consigned to the scrapheap of irrelevence where it belongs.

This. Quoted for truth

Sometimes I feel like we're going out the world backwards. I hope the person who felt it was okay to judge a person by the color of skin is making like a rotesserie chicken in hell right now! It has created generations of misery for centuries, if not longer. I'm glad things have gotten somewhat better but still say we have quite a bit of work cut out for us when it comes to discrimination on any level.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

I'm glad things have gotten somewhat better but still say we have quite a bit of work cut out for us when it comes to discrimination on any level.

It'll never die, unfortunately. If anything, new variations have come onto the scene, not always taking stabs at the aforementioned communities, but other lesser-knowns.

It's encouraged in music, tv and movies. Kids grow up watching things like that and think it's okay. And then there are those adults who only encourage the behavior.

 

[ViperGTS]

How do you figure the offended is wrong to get angry? That person did nothing wrong before the confrontation and a person has the right to defend themself including in a word exchange.

This is exactly the attitude that I'm talking about. You refuse to, even for a moment, consider the possibility of trying to take the stigma away from the word yourself. You insist on getting angry because you HAVE to retaliate because someone called you a bad word. "Ohhhh nooooes, someone called me a name I don't appreciate, let me flip out and get violent and do something even WORSE so they know not to do it next time!" is NOT a mature and responsible way to handle a situation, believe it or not.

You know what, since I obviously can't seem to convey this idea very well, let me just wrap it up like this. If you want other people to stop calling you names, stop letting those names offend you. If you keep whining when someone calls you something dirty, more power to them for being able to manipulate you.

Take charge and grow a pair, for christ's sake - stop telling everyone else to change and take a little initiative instead of falling prey to verbal bullies and doing exactly what they want you to do.

[edit] Also, I have another thought. Any parent who's child asks, "Mommy/Daddy, what does the word '************' mean?" and they respond saying that it's a mean, dirty word that no one should use, is contirubting to the stigma attached to it. When your child asks that kind of question, maybe it's time we start answering with, "That's a harmless word that ignorant and selfish people use when they are feeling insecure and threatened - and it's ONLY used by unintelligent people who don't care about anyone but themselves." Instill a little shame into it from a young age and maybe, JUST MAYBE the next generation will make less fools out of themselves than we obviously have.

 

[Mister Scruff]

Despite how it came to be, doesn't mean it evolved the same way. That word unfortunately evolved into one with hate attached to it. -- It's also managed to evolve again; still holding hate, but not always. Depending on context.

If it's dependent on context then surely it's only offensive in context? If I call you a ************ because we're down the pub and you mischieviously press a button on the slot machine, thus costing me a quid, it's not offensive. If I use the word to make a gay person feel ostracised and intimidated, it's offensive.

************ has only one context. If I call you a ************ because we're down the pub and you mischieviously press a button on the slot machine, thus costing me a quid, it's still an offensive word wether or not you find it offensive. ************ evolved from a term of mild abuse, was appropriated by hate groups to belittle homosexuals, and is now becoming what it was before. ************ started out life as a lazy way of saying "negroid", and is thus a contraction of a word that seeks to pidgeon-hole and demean people because of the colour of their skin.

 

[kis123]

This is exactly the attitude that I'm talking about. You refuse to, even for a moment, consider the possibility of trying to take the stigma away from the word yourself. You insist on getting angry because you HAVE to retaliate because someone called you a bad word. "Ohhhh nooooes, someone called me a name I don't appreciate, let me flip out and get violent and do something even WORSE so they know not to do it next time!" is NOT a mature and responsible way to handle a situation, believe it or not.

You know what, since I obviously can't seem to convey this idea very well, let me just wrap it up like this. If you want other people to stop calling you names, stop letting those names offend you. If you keep whining when someone calls you something dirty, more power to them for being able to manipulate you.

Take charge and grow a pair, for christ's sake - stop telling everyone else to change and take a little initiative instead of falling prey to verbal bullies and doing exactly what they want you to do.

Uh, who have I told to change? And who's whining? Certainly not me; I'm just keeping it real and telling the truth. If you don't like that, I'm sorry but it doesn't change it.

People need to be responsible for what comes out of their mouths Viper, plain and simple. It's not an issue of two wrongs making a right or any of the other things you've used to justify your position. It's about being an adult in society and knowing it's not okay to be an insulting loudmouth bigot. If said person comes across the wrong one, it could mean a case of his mouth writing checks his behind may have to pay. How about getting to the source and root of the problem instead of making it mine or someone else's responsibility? How about some diversity training for those who are socially or culturally ignorant and feel spouting off discriminatory ephithets is okay? It's not my responsiblity to walk away, it is my choice to. It's his responsibility for him/her to keep his/her trap shut in the first place. It's not accidental; they already know their behavior is unacceptable before they do it and chose to do it anyway. I wouldn't have to consider being the "bigger person" in the first place if they'd just keep their mouths shut, so if I choose not to, it isn't my fault or my problem.

I think you're completely off base and instead of dragging this into the abyss, I simply don't agree with you. I'm no one who's going to take anyone's abuse either verbally or physically. I've been there, done that, and waliking away never works. It only gives the abuser power and makes them up the ante for the next confrontation because they think they have a victim to play with. They don't go away until they're dealt with. When it comes to bullies, I've put up with them all my life and detest them! I get them moving away from me asap before old back in the day takes over and they pay for every nasty thing anyone's ever done.

I don't own a "pair", but how about this? How about they grow up, take responsibility for their racist, sexist, or whatever disrespectful remarks and not be an asshole in the first place? People have died over a lot less.....is it really worth it to begin with? How about if they learn to fit into the right world instead of trying to shove their world down everyone's throats? And it might not be a mature way to handle things, but it's damn sure an effective one!

 

[ViperGTS]

************ started out life as a lazy way of saying "negroid", and is thus a contraction of a word that seeks to pidgeon-hole and demean people because of the colour of their skin.

Actually...

The word '************' is derived from the word for 'black' (French: negre derived from negro, Spanish and Portuguese: negro, Latin: niger). The definition of the word "************" pre-dates black slavery, first of all.

Secondly, in 1619, John Rolfe used the word "negars" in one of it's first recorded black-person-referencing uses when describing black slaves being sent to Virginian colonies. It was used in a descriptive way, NOT in an offensive way. Only after the misconception of black people being less than white people aroe did the word '************' begin to take on ANY negative connotation whatsoever.

Until the Civil Rights movement in the 60's, EVERYONE used the word ************ anyway. The word itself simply described black people in general - it was just usually said with hate because only those who hated blacks would objectify them and not call them by their real names - and that hatred bled into the word as the years wore on and resistance to change was met with more anger.

[EDIT] - Wait wait wait, kis. You're saying that you have a RIGHT to become violent because someone called you a dirty word? You are kidding, right? I must have misinterpereted that because no reasonable adult would ever really believe that's an acceptable way to think.

 

[kis123]

It'll never die, unfortunately. If anything, new variations have come onto the scene, not always taking stabs at the aforementioned communities, but other lesser-knowns.

It's encouraged in music, tv and movies. Kids grow up watching things like that and think it's okay. And then there are those adults who only encourage the behavior.

I'm glad you said that; if I would've made the same statement, I would've been run off this thread. Unfortunately, there is much validity to what you're saying.

 

[Mister Scruff]

Actually...

The word '************' is derived from the word for 'black' (French: negre derived from negro, Spanish and Portuguese: negro, Latin: niger). The definition of the word "************" pre-dates black slavery, first of all.

No, the definition of the word "neger" does. "************" came later.

Secondly, in 1619, John Rolfe used the word "negars" in one of it's first recorded black-person-referencing uses when describing black slaves being sent to Virginian colonies. It was used in a descriptive way, NOT in an offensive way. Only after the misconception of black people being less than white people aroe did the word '************' begin to take on ANY negative connotation whatsoever.

So it started off as a word used by a slave-runner to describe slaves, and you're saying that "Only after the misconception of black people being less than white people aroe did the word '************' begin to take on ANY negative connotation whatsoever"?

Do you see how that's at odds with itself?

Also, Wikipedia copy-pasta:

The word ************ was not always considered derogatory, because it then denoted black skin, a common Anglophone usage.[citation needed]

See that bit at the end where it says "citation needed"? That means it's an unsourced statement, and therefore could be a personal assertion for all anyone knows. It wasn't ALWAYS a bad word... it was just coined by people to describe the human chattel they owned.

I see what you're saying, that "************" originally started out as a common word to describe people with black skin, but when you consider that those people were all slaves and the term was coined by slave-masters you see where the controversy arises.

Until the Civil Rights movement in the 60's, EVERYONE used the word ************ anyway.

And until the end of World War II EVERYONE persecuted the Jews. Was that right, then?

The word itself simply described black people in general - it was just usually said with hate because only those who hated blacks would objectify them and not call them by their real names - and that hatred bled into the word as the years wore on and resistance to change was met with more anger.

But that thing you copy-pasted from Wikipedia notes that the first instance of it's use, or rather the first instanced use of the root word "negar", was to describe slaves. So now it's a word that "simply described black people in general"?

[EDIT] - Wait wait wait, kis. You're saying that you have a RIGHT to become violent because someone called you a dirty word? You are kidding, right? I must have misinterpereted that because no reasonable adult would ever really believe that's an acceptable way to think.

Whilst I don't think it's reasonable per se, it's certainly understandable. You can't go around doing things that you know will offend people's sensibilities and not expect them to react. I realise some people find the word "************" offensive, and if they are people to whom violence is acceptable then I may suffer violence as a result of my usage of the word, but hey; it's a word that stands for, by turns, a) a cranky old woman, b) a bundle of twigs used for kindling and/ or c) a meatball made from offal, so if you find that offensive you're a bit unhinged anyway. Ohnoes he called me a meatball GET THE SAWN-OFF!

************ is different. I don't use that word at all if I can possibly help it, because whilst I realise it's just a word and is therefore no more fearful than "and" or "the" on it's own, it was born from hatred and remains a term of profound abuse to this day.

 

[kis123]

[EDIT] - Wait wait wait, kis. You're saying that you have a RIGHT to become violent because someone called you a dirty word? You are kidding, right? I must have misinterpereted that because no reasonable adult would ever really believe that's an acceptable way to think.

Never said it was a right with the exception of self defense. What it is can be best described as a decision. All words have power Viper; they depict pictures, stir up memories, can turn you on or off. Hell, how many times have you used words in your own business activities? Weren't you the one who walked up to a complete stranger about doing a tickling video? She had a choice to be impressed, think you were creepy, or call the cops feeling violated right? She even had the choice to slap the crap outta' you; would she have been necessarily right? I'm not sure, but it would've definitely been justified. When you stepped up to her, you were willing to accept whatever her response would be right? I'm sure you were happy that she responded in your favor, but what if she wouldn't have? You didn't know her from a can of spray paint. For all you know, she could've been a victim of sexual abuse, a former prostitute, or any other past where your invititation wouldn't have exactly been greeted with open arms. That's the point Viper, you don't know what a person's hot button is, but you do know most people find certain words offensive. So does that verbal bully who thinks it's okay to use them.

Words mean different things to different people, but some words aren't necessary to use at all in any fashion as far as I'm concerned. If someone chooses to go there they're also choosing to deal with the consequences. The offended party can choose to walk away, or they can curse the offender out, or they can choose to beat the crap out of the offender.

Now believe it or not, I have a very long fuse in RL; I have a longsuffering spirit and the patience of Job. By the time I'm truly pissed, something's been happening for quite awhile. This is why I know walking away doesn't resolve a problem with a bully; hell most of them will follow you and keep it up until you turn to them and face off. I will let said person have it and not lose one second of sleep over it. You cannot always walk away especially when they keep coming at you. That's just not realistic.....at least not to me.

 

[meangry]

Just because it's protected doesn't mean you should. I would never make a word illegal. And that's not totally true anyway. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater.



OK, so you belittle Polish, German, and Irish people because you identify as such. So this justifies belittling blacks, gays, and women why? You are a black lesbian?

Being a minority gives you ownership over hateful words that could be used against you - you can reject or reclaim them.



No one is saying you have to care. However, if you don't give any consideration to the feelings of safety and acceptance of others around you, you're a jerk, sorry. We are social animals and we have to live with each other.



Um, who are you to decide true suffering? Where's the line? How did you come up this "majority of people" statistic? Because if you really want to do research, 86.2% of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender youth reported experiencing harassment at school last year. See www.glsen.org for more information.

I'm a queer, Jewish woman. I've experience homophobia. I've experienced anti-Semitism. I've experienced sexism. Do I need to outline the specific examples to you in order to be allowed to be offended?

It's a word. Nothing more and nothing less.

In the most base manner, ************=************=cauliflower. Personal anecdotes are trite and meaningless.

Speech and language are not concrete constructs, and as such, I personally don't feel as though I should have any sort of remorse in using a single word in any given context.