Is tickling "Sexual Harassment?"

[ViperGTS]

I've seen and experienced this many times, and it just raises red flags for me. I'm hoping for some help in seeing both sides of this argument.

If you're at work and either you or another employee has a playful attitude and is fun-loving, and either you quickly tickle another employee (or another employee tickles you), is that reason to report or be reported to management for sexual harassment? Is it asking too much of someone to tell the person that's doing the tickling to stop, to tell them that you're uncomfortable with it, before going up the ladder and reporting them?

I know there are many dimensions to this (thast creepy coworker you've always thought was weird, someone who's been a problem fromt he word go, etc), but what if it's just someone who's being playful and friendly?

If you haven't figured it out, I've gotten into trouble before for it at school/work. Nothing recent, though, this question just popped into my mind this morning.

Discuss.

 

[lt21]

well first off in a legal sense its not harrasment till you already told them to stop....but i cant imagine in goin that far unless someone HATES to be tickled(or the person tickling them)...and the other person WONT stop.....im a bartender myself and i tickle most all the girls on the staff, and they ALL tickle me back.....girls are devious they will gang up on you

 

[Mitchell]

Viper, unfortunately, in our society, sexual harrassment, while a problem, I think is one of the most overblown things that occurs in modern day life.
I have a friend (Not me, but a very old and dear friend who I've known for many years, who some years ago, got into trouble at both work, and also a call from the police in another state, for sending poems to women, general poems, that were not even about them persay. According to his boss, and the police, anything that even is remotely of a sexual nature can be considered harrassment.
You mentioned tickling. Even if it is playful, and well meaning, touching another person who doesnt want to be touched, especially a stranger, is technically assault. Iam sorry to hear that you have had past troubles for such. It is a sign of the times, I think. My mom told me that when she used to work in dental offices in the 60s, she used to get touched, groped, have snide sexual comments made, and such, and had no recourse but to deal with it. Today, if she could have proved such, the dentist and whoever groped her could have been sued.
Before I joined TMF, when my pen pal Don was alive, I used to ask female letter pen pals tickling questions. Since he died, and I joined up here, I dont do so anymore, for thought of the harrassment issue. Nothing happened to me to cause me to stop doing it, I never got into any trouble. The pen pal either answered the question, or didnt write back. Seeing what happened to my friend, who got called down for harrassment, for poems, made me realize that the same could have happened to me, for discussing tickling, with female letter pen pals. Therefore, to air on the side of safety, I dont even discuss tickling with female pen pals anymore, or with anyone, and save such discussion for here, and when I have a girlfriend again.
Again, Iam sorry Viper. I think some of what happened to you is a sign of the times.

Mitch

 

[tkl-pen]

My general manager calls me 'the crown prince of sexual harassment' and has told me 'when somebody asks why we have a sexual harassment policy, I show them your picture' - the fact of the matter, though, is that he seems to sexualize everything I say and do, and that's kind of an albatross hanging around my neck - I never come onto people, I never tell dirty jokes, etc. So, I have had to defend myself probably a dozen times, mostly against silly allegations of things taken out of context,and I have developed a thorough knowledge of this subject.

My understanding of your situation is this. When you tickle someone without their knowledge or permission, it may or may not be sexual harassment - it all depends on their perception. If they like it, its not - if they don't like it, it could well be.

If they make it clear that they want that, or that they don't want to be touched by the particular person, and that individual continues to do it, then it does become sexual harassment because the person has been told to stop this behavior.

Sexual harassment is one sided - it is not playful interaction, including the tickling, between two consenting coworkers - it is one person doing it to another against their will. It could also be considered assault because the unwilling person is actually touched in the process.

I love to tickle young women and would have no problem poking a side, running a finger through an armpit or up the sole of a foot given the chance - but I have never, ever done this at work. As one fellow on TMF put it for me two or three years ago, 'you don't shit where you eat'.

So, if there is consent from the girl, go ahead - if she doesn't want it, don't - if you are told to stop, then stop. By the way, even leering at her delicious ticklish parts can be sexual harassment if she senses you doing it.

 

[ViperGTS]

I think people need to lighten the hell up, in all honesty. I mean, if I know someone doesn't appreciate that, it doesn't happen. Period. The last thing I ever mean to do is offend anyone. but damn, instead of flipping out and trying to get me fired, tell me instead.

 

[Kitten_Kat]

Err Unless the person tells you to stop and clearly means it, I believe it is Sexual Harassment, also, you don't go up and randomly tickle someone you do not know. That's just freaky.

 

[Redmage]

Technically it can't be treated as sexual harrassment until someone asks you to stop it. It doesn't even need to be the person you're tickling: if your co-workers find that they're uncomfortable with this sort of thing and mention it to management, then a manager can ask you to stop.

Sexual harrassment is usually defined as behavior with potential sexual overtones that, in the words of the law, "creates a hostile work environment." Basically that means that it makes it difficult or uncomfortable for someone to work around it. Now, management has some leeway in this: if a co-worker whistling "Bolero" seems sexual to someone else and that person complains, management is likely to tell the complainer to get a grip. But physical touch is much more iffy in an office environment - it can almost always be construed sexually.

I would not tickle a co-worker at the office, even if after work we planned to have a long intimate evening. It's just too great a minefield.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Here it isn't. But the "I'll sue your ass!"-culture is nowhere to be found in holland.

 

[Deuce]

This is my opinion on this if like viper mentioned the co-worker has a playful attitude and fun loving that the person mentioned wouldn't take it that way and would I hope just see that your personally being the same was the reason behind the quick tickle. Now someone more corporate may look at that in a different light and cause trouble for you, I look at it this way if you were outside of work and this happened with a good friend would your actions put that friendship in jeoperdy and is it worth the chance you may lost that friendship and if you answer yes to either then you may not want to do it. Just remember no means no.

 

[ViperGTS]

Right, no means no, but before someone says no, then what?

So I am young and naieve.

 

[TMF Jeff]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: People have been sued for sexual harassment because of their tickling, so it clearly does qualify. To a certain extent it's just in the eye of the beholder and some people will like it and some won't, but on the other hand it's clearly a sensual intrusion. You're touching someone in a moderately intimate place, this isn't a handshake after all, and in a way that creates a sensory response in them: they feel whatever people feel when someone tickles them whether they want to or not. Also it forces a physical reaction out of them, a laugh, a squeal, a jump, whatever. It's probably only a step above goosing someone on the ass, which again, some people won't mind, but many probably will.

My personal policy is that I keep my hands to myself except with very close friends.

 

[ViperGTS]

*sigh* I guess I need to re-evaluate my personality, then.

 

[tkl-pen]

Boy, Viper, have I ever been there - not for tickling but for things that I did or did not say that were taken either totally out of context or changed to become something that I never said - I know how you feel.

Mephistoles, I believe that the whole attitude toward sexuality in Europe is far more mature than it is in North America - in Europe a lot of things like this are no big deal - but here it seems many women filter everythign they see and hear through their genitals - it is so refreshing for me to see the women who are sexually more mature and confident on this forum - by the way, I am from Holland but went to Canada when I was nine years old.

 

[marcusb]

Technically, any uninvited touching is. And, even if it is invited... a fellow co-worker could turn you in to HR because your actions with ANOTHER person made them feel uncomfortable seeing you two playing around.

 

[Myriads]

Yes it is.

It falls into the catagory of uninvited contact.

Uninvited contact forms the basis for action in most HR departments.

So basically if you touch someone you have opened the door to just about anything. Most of these anythings can and will lead to your hinder getting canned.

Sad but true facts of our modern world: When at work you are expected to be a robot that works and does little else.

Myriads

 

[MrPartickler]

Yes it is.
Sad but true facts of our modern world: When at work you are expected to be a robot that works and does little else.

LMAO.

Too true. I just attended a "mock trail" for sexual harrassment in fulfilment of a training requirement. I learned that the law is relatively ambiguous too. If someone wants to screw you over, they can...pretty easily. And there's not much you can do but suffer through it. With that said, tickle at your own risk.

 

[ViperGTS]

Well, the question is, how do you react to it? Do you wish it didn't happen, etc?

 

[Sunday_10pm]

"Sexual harrassment" is ridiculous. I'm so glad I don't live in America where people launch an offensive to take years of your salary when you touch them.

 

[StephanieLocke]

Speaking as a Dominant Female...

Dear ViperGTS,

Many woman consider univited tickling to be an act of harassment or bullying. Many would also consider it sexual harassment and not that cute either. Yes, I poke the occasional male in the ribs, yes I've goosed the occasional girl...that said...they know who I am, they expect me to have my way with them occasionally.

Were someone to attempt tickling me...I would not be nice to them....I understand it takes time to learn the rules and who's who...but once you do...make sure you only approach people who won't want to kick your ass literally or figuratively in a court of law or in person.

It's also the difference between an "innocent" tickling between two people not into it...and a tickling given by someone who's aroused at the notion whether their body is betraying them at the time or not.

Women can sense that and not take it too well.

Mistress Stephanie Locke
www.mslvideos.com
www.stephanielocke.com

 

[Bagelfather]

harassment

It is not only harassment if you touch someone univited but if someone witnesses it who is offended. I honestly suggest reviewing your HR policy and ask questions of the appropriate people.

even talking about something like tickling someone could be ofensive. The defining term is "what is offensive to a reasonable person." That is vague, that is the standard, live with it. So talking about how you tickled a little baby would be reasonable to nealy everyone. Talking about pinning your girlfriend down and tickling her for 20 min, probably not.

I used to massage my friend's shoulder at work because she has serious issues but I can't do that anymore because if someone else witnesses it they could be offended.

Sexual harassment is about creating, as one person perceives, a hostile work environment. It is harassment whether you tell HR, a manager, or the person. If it is a hostile enironment someone may be afraid to report it directly to the instigator. It may be them or it may have happened another time and there are bad memories.

Do not blame the victim for not coming to you, blame yourself for putting the victim in that position. And remember (at least in California) you can not only sue the company you can sue the person harassng you. This may be Federal Law but I forget.

 

[Luv2Tickle69]

I think people need to lighten the hell up, in all honesty. I mean, if I know someone doesn't appreciate that, it doesn't happen. Period. The last thing I ever mean to do is offend anyone. but damn, instead of flipping out and trying to get me fired, tell me instead.

....and therein lies the root of the problem V.....too many people taking way too much way too seriously......it's like you suggested....if it's making the person uncomfortable or uneasy, or if they're getting annoyed with it, a simple "Hey...please...knock it the fuck off" should be all that's necessary.....

.....but....(there's always a flipside to that goddamn coin)....I suppose some of those laws became enacted because a minority of dipshits clearly couldn't TAKE a simple 'no' (like the sample above) for what it IS.....and had to push the proverbial envelope.

.....again.....share that with the people you implicitly trust, and with those that implicitly trust YOU as well.....should minimize the likelihood of future occurrences significantly....(not that you haven't already taken said measures, mind you)...

 

[WorkInProgress]

The way I look at it, legitimately, "sue your ass" cultures aside, the only people we have any business tickling are those with whom we know for sure that the relationship is totally cool and friendly and playful, where there couldn't possibly be any question of one complaining against the other. This actually goes beyond tickling. You know how, in college dorms, students pull all kinds of pranks on each other? Like swiping each other's clothes when they're in the shower? Do that to the wrong person, you have a police incident. When it comes to workplaces, discretion really is the better part of valor. It's often better to be a little stiff and standoffish in the workplace until you really know people and are sure of what relationship you have with them.

(I have deliberately responded to a "what are the rules" question with a "what's the best way to get along and avoid problems" answer.)

 

[sole seeker]

Of course I'm happy it happened! lol but I also love being tickled...so its not exactly the norm circumstances. Hmm I'm sorry I can't be much help here

I used to visit an emergency services radio dispatch center from time to time. The dispatchers had two signs up on the wall, both of which I loved:

Sexual Harrasment will not be reported... but it will be discussed among the dispatchers and rated!

You may know where you are and what you're doing...
And God may know where you are and what you're doing...
But if we don't know where you are and what you're doing... you'd better have a good relationship with God!

 

[Soda83pop]

Hmmm...maybe Im one of the few guys responding to this thread that feel this way, but I see nothing wrong with a sexual harassment policy. This has nothing to do with a "sue your ass" society, or people being stuffy. It has to do with knowing how to conduct yourself in a work environment and (much more importantly) allowing other people to work without having to fear being touched inappropriately. With as many working adults in here as there are, I am pretty surprised by the somewhat negative responses concerning a sexual harassment policy in the workplace.

I have spoken to Viper on here several times (mostly about computer stuff) and he is cool guy. He is extremely helpful to the people in here that need tech help, and has a great sense of humor. I do not know him personally, but I will safely assume he means no harm when he is playfully tickling women on the job. The problem here is two fold, however. First, if other people see it, they may assume that this woman will let anyone touch her...and they may take this opportunity to play grab ass, and if she complains, then the first words out of said person's mouth will be "Well (enter Viper's real name) is always touching her, I figured it was cool." Secondly, while Im sure Viper gets to know people before he decides to poke and prod, not everybody uses that type of common sense. That policy is in place to compensate for the ignorance that some people use in the work environment when it comes to people of the opposite sex.

The bottom line here I think is know your environment. I worked in a call center where people tickled each other practically everyday, all the time. My own manager talked two girls into giving each other the figure four leg lock and watched as the two girls tickled each other's feet. The job was pretty stressful, and as long as the people were receptive to the antogonist (tickler), and the work was being accomplished, nothing was ever said. Fun job 😉

The job I am at now...will never happen. Not even a little bit. It isnt that type of environment; the job culture is pretty rigid. But I am cool with that as well. Frankly, I dont have time to tickle women on the job; Im slightly jealous of those of you that do (I stay to busy to even consider it).

So that is my take. Have I joked around with women on the job like that before. Yes. Several times. I had a relationship with these women where I knew the boundaries (most important) and knew I wouldnt lose my job over it (even more importantly). Just think with your head, not with your dick (or in this case I guess it would be fingers LOL!!)

 

[Comfortably_Dom]

I don't agree that in Europe the attitude is different. Certainly not in Britain. The US has led the World in litigation and Europe is following. The concept of sexual harrassment (with all the other BS rules) is one that is so scary, that owners of smaller business, like myself, are beginning to question whether it is worth continuing. I certainly would think before employing a young female. And that in itself is sexual discrimination. (not harrassment).

However, it is true that for the sexually "liberated", Holland still stands as a beacon. But for how long ?

Might move there for a couple of years. Anyone fancy the trip ?