It's weird; Is M/F creativity dying?

[Deleted member 66627]

We've had countless discussions and arguments about the lack of F/M material, even lack of F/F material. Clearly and to those who were upset; thankfully, it seems as if V/a contains a solid amount of F/M *and* F/F.

Oddly though, it seems as if the quality and even quantity of M/F work seems to have declined. This is strictly my opinion, at least. I remember when I had first joined and there was large amounts of clips that were M/F and contained more then just plopping a female lee into a set of stocks and having a male tickle her. Or even some masked male tickling a generically bound woman.

I'm not saying that all of M/F that doesn't contain something besides stocks or another spread eagle tie is gone, but it seems to be a lot harder to find. I remember one of the first clips I loved watching was ViperGTS's clip of Becca-- Blurring the line.

It contained more then just 'tickling'. The whole chemistry and set up, all the way to the camera angles and fading work was done amazingly well. Also, when ZenTickling first came onto the scene awhile back, he had brought in these extremely charismatic girls who did more then just lay there and laugh.

Do Producer's even take request or scene ideas? I'm not saying everything out there is dreadfully dull. However, I do feel that the M/F scene creativity is dwindling.

 

[Mister Scruff]

How creative can you be with this thing? Especially if, like the majority of the producers seem to be, you're some bloke/s with a camera, a few bits of bondage gear and some time on your hands? Important thing to remember is that the vast majority of porn producers aren't auteurs, largely because they don't need to be; they make enough just doing the same old-same old, and the same old-same old requires the absolute minimum of input, expenditure and brain-power. Doing anything else just doesn't make sense. Why put in more effort to make something that's only going to sell as well as the stuff you barely bothered with?

Tickle clips aren't an artform; they're niche pornography.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Why put in more effort to make something that's only going to sell as well as the stuff you barely bothered with?

But, does it even sell well? What if company's are mirroring each other. Then you're going to have to do something to up the bar, right?

Tickle clips aren't an artform; they're niche pornography.

Psh. I've seen and own porn that could be considered art. 😛

 

[Mister Scruff]

But, does it even sell well? What if company's are mirroring each other. Then you're going to have to do something to up the bar, right?

Not necessarily; as a purchaser of porn I can say all a producer has to do to "up the bar" is have a prettier model than their competitors. And even then I might end up buying the clip I originally passed over, just because she was nice too >_<

As for it not selling, if it wasn't would there be so many producers kicking about? :-o

Psh. I've seen and own porn that could be considered art. 😛

Yeah, but a lot of the high-end stuff tends to be produced by dedicated studios who for the most part aren't solely after turning a profit on their stuff. They do it because, to them at least, it's worth doing.

Personally I like artsy porn, but regular non-artsy porn sates my lusts just as well. Doesn't matter to me if she's tied to a kitchen counter or suspended from a ceiling by a complex array of cables, pulleys and ropes; as long as she's pretty and she's being tickled I can rock with it. I've no discerning tastes when it comes to porn; people like me are the reason there's no creativity in porn, and why the bar is never raised 😀

 

[Helena]

I haven't really thought about this a whole bunch until I read this post. I'm a huge fan of M/F tickling, but I don't like just any old thing. I don't have specific requirements, because I like variation. It is difficult to find M/F with quality on a daily basis here, and I have noticed a huge increase in F/F.

However, during my time here, I've collected enough clips to take me through any dry spell involving new material. I think I know what I like when I see it, and it does come along now and then.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

I've no discerning tastes when it comes to porn; people like me are the reason there's no creativity in porn, and why the bar is never raised 😀

lawl.

I can understand your reasoning. Thanks, Crabsnatch. <33

Perhaps I'm just finicky. 🙂

 

[lk70]

How creative can you be with this thing?

Tickle clips aren't an artform; they're niche pornography.

Ah makes me sad. Tickle vids, just like tickle sessions, certainly can be an art form. There are lers (one or two anyway) out there who have turned this crazy thing of ours into something way beyond what most imagine or can even handle, pioneers who are simply too much for most to accept.

Sad fact is, I think most guys out there prefer the same old crud they get over and over, both on vid and in life. Why take the time to create something when you can pounce and tickle?

 

[Mister Scruff]

This pickiness for porn seems to be a woman thing. The only reasonable solution therefore is to get more women involved in the production side of things. That would make for an interesting dynamic, because if women started being porn producers that would allow me to not only demand they iron my shirts and make me sammiches but also that they go out and make me a porn film!

Holy shit this could be the biggest revolution in human society since common law. I'm excited.

 

[daryl]

I understand what you are saying. I think it traces back to when vhs/dvd stopped being the thing and clips4sale became the market. The thought that goes into each individual one is much less, it seems. Videos used to be plot-based, and were evenly split with m/f and f/f. Now vids get churned out very fast, mostly with no real plot, just two people together, sometimes with next to no talking between them. Laughing Gas Zone and a few others are exceptions, and I wonder how their sales stack up.

 

[Musicroxmysox]

This pickiness for porn seems to be a woman thing. The only reasonable solution therefore is to get more women involved in the production side of things. That would make for an interesting dynamic, because if women started being porn producers that would allow me to not only demand they iron my shirts and make me sammiches but also that they go out and make me a porn film!

Holy shit this could be the biggest revolution in human society since common law. I'm excited.

Where can I sign up lol? I think that yes the generic is acceptable...but why can't things be high quality? Have story and depth, instead of just wanking material.

 

[LD_Tickler]

I've been perusing the ol' tickling porn for the greater part of a decade, and Crystal, I think it's in your head.

Quality of clips goes up and down at random. If you're finding that m/f stuff is overwhelmingly bland to you these days, it probably has nothing to do with the material itself - just that when you first started seeing it, it was new and exciting. Now that the novelty's worn off, it has little other charm.

That happened to me with realtickling. I used to love that stuff, now I think it's the most boring that's out there. Tastes change, I don't think the average material does.

 

[Mister Scruff]

Where can I sign up lol?

There's a pad next to the Sammich-Fixin' Counter in the kitchen; go go go! 😀

I think that yes the generic is acceptable...but why can't things be high quality? Have story and depth, instead of just wanking material.

Because those kinds of things take time to plan, set up and shoot, and when all you're doing is to put extra effort into something that would serve it's purpose equally well without the extra effort it seems a bit redundant. The vast majority of people who buy clips aren't interested in the artistic merits or the intricacies of the thing; they want wanking material. Ho hum :-s

 

[Artoo]

Psh. I've seen and own porn that could be considered art. 😛

Gimme. 😀

 

[Comfort Eagle]

I guess when these producers first start out everything is fun and exciting for them, and as time goes on it then becomes more and more of a job, going through the motions, and it becomes noticeable. Not worse, just noticeable. It's something I've noticed with M/F and F/F alike, a little less on F/M.

Before anyone comes in and makes a corny ass "Give me a shot with a ticklish hottie, I'll show you some creativity 😉" remark, it's true. Early on, it's going to be a new and exciting experience and as a result the product will be new and exciting, but even the best of experiences will get less and less interesting repeated enough times, so the fact that videos would reflect as much is to be expected.

 

[Musicroxmysox]

There's a pad next to the Sammich-Fixin' Counter in the kitchen; go go go! 😀



Because those kinds of things take time to plan, set up and shoot, and when all you're doing is to put extra effort into something that would serve it's purpose equally well without the extra effort it seems a bit redundant. The vast majority of people who buy clips aren't interested in the artistic merits or the intricacies of the thing; they want wanking material. Ho hum :-s

1. Go fix your own damn sammich.

2. It's this attitude that has made today's society utterly apathetic and an embarrassment to itself.

 

[Mister Scruff]

1. Go fix your own damn sammich.

It never tastes as good if I have to make it myself 🙁

2. It's this attitude that has made today's society utterly apathetic and an embarrassment to itself.

Are you blaming the apathy and disposability of today's society on the attitude that porn doesn't HAVE to be artistic or finely crafted to serve it's purpose?

 

[Capnmad]

Where can I sign up lol? I think that yes the generic is acceptable...but why can't things be high quality? Have story and depth, instead of just wanking material.

Because those kinds of things take time to plan, set up and shoot, and when all you're doing is to put extra effort into something that would serve it's purpose equally well without the extra effort it seems a bit redundant. The vast majority of people who buy clips aren't interested in the artistic merits or the intricacies of the thing; they want wanking material. Ho hum :-s

That's the thing -- sure, the field lacks creativity, but seriously, how often is it asked for by more than one or two folks? Some people seem quite content to do without "art" in their "sex", and will even vociferously attack attempts at storytelling, insisting it's always essentially the equivalent of the pizza delivery boy in a porno.

The field will raise to the level of optimal return for the least effort, and however sad it is, producers aren't unwise to avoid being derided for trying to include creative story elements (which they're likely to do by not including such elements to begin with). This is business, after all.

 

[BellaRisa]

There's a pad next to the Sammich-Fixin' Counter in the kitchen; go go go! 😀



Because those kinds of things take time to plan, set up and shoot, and when all you're doing is to put extra effort into something that would serve it's purpose equally well without the extra effort it seems a bit redundant. The vast majority of people who buy clips aren't interested in the artistic merits or the intricacies of the thing; they want wanking material. Ho hum :-s

See, as a producer who knows other producers I disagree with this. Viper, LeeAllure, Magic Touch, myself...I know that we all try to be different than the usual fare, to be creative when we can and do something that will make our customers and people on forums like this take notice. We have cool ideas and if they're feasible you will see them produced. None of us are getting fabulously wealthy, our videos are a labor of love and always have been-we put in extra effort because we want to see our ideas on film, it's *not* about bare minimal effort. Now having said that, I can tell from the vast majority of what's offered that many producers have read all of the "no men in our clips!" posts you see here and on other forums and they're reluctant to do anything other than F/F, and you can't blame them. Also, there are a LOT of people who'll tell you they don't want creativity, plots, storylines, etc. in their clips because A) they don't believe anyone who would do a video can act, and B) they don't want to spend money on a clip with ANY seconds 'wasted' on set-up or dialogue. So many producers feel as though they have to do what everyone else is doing, no room for anything refreshing or unique or involving (gasp!) a male on camera 🙄 I do think that producers like Viper and others will be doing new and interesting M/F vids over the next few years, simply because they have creative minds and the M/F fans will gladly look to their companies 🙂

 

[Musicroxmysox]

Are you blaming the apathy and disposability of today's society on the attitude that porn doesn't HAVE to be artistic or finely crafted to serve it's purpose?

Not at all. I do see a point in having simplistic things as a great many people like that. What I don't understand is why despite simplicity being acceptable, that some should not strive for something deeper, something that takes work and effort. I do not feel it redundant to put effort into something.

More people would do better in the world if they put a little effort into things, no matter the subject, porn or otherwise. If everyone was okay with mediocrity and the same plain things there would not be things set aside in this world for the elite and those who are driven to succeed. I merely suggest that today's world is mostly mediocre, and that those who strive for more often get shut down by the suggestion of doing more simply because the vast majority prefers their simplistic mediocrity.

 

[Mister Scruff]

See, as a producer who knows other producers I disagree with this. Viper, LeeAllure, Magic Touch, myself...I know that we all try to be different than the usual fare, to be creative when we can and do something that will make our customers and people on forums like this take notice. We have cool ideas and if they're feasible you will see them produced. None of us are getting fabulously wealthy, our videos are a labor of love and always have been-we put in extra effort because we want to see our ideas on film, it's *not* about bare minimal effort. Now having said that, I can tell from the vast majority of what's offered that many producers have read all of the "no men in our clips!" posts you see here and on other forums and they're reluctant to do anything other than F/F, and you can't blame them. Also, there are a LOT of people who'll tell you they don't want creativity, plots, storylines, etc. in their clips because A) they don't believe anyone who would do a video can act, and B) they don't want to spend money on a clip with ANY seconds 'wasted' on set-up or dialogue. So many producers feel as though they have to do what everyone else is doing, no room for anything refreshing or unique or involving (gasp!) a male on camera 🙄 I do think that producers like Viper and others will be doing new and interesting M/F vids over the next few years, simply because they have creative minds and the M/F fans will gladly look to their companies 🙂

Leaving aside the fact that there's only so much creativity you can put into this sort of thing without adding dialogue and plots and whatnot, if you took away all the creativity and just produced a series of clips showing girls being tickled in various positions, how do you reckon that'd affect your sales?

I'm not trying to shit on anyone's toils, because God knows the last thing the world needs is for people to stop trying new things and being imaginative, but at the end of the day no matter how much effort and thought goes into the making of a tickle video, you've got to know it's not going to be appreciated. If I have two tickling clips of the same model, one into which a lot of thought and care has been invested and the other which basically has the girl hog-tied on some bloke's bed, and the elaborate one costs 50p more than the inelegant one, I'm going to buy the inelegant one. Even if I buy both I'm not going to notice the extra care put into the first clip; my attention to detail gets sort of lost in a haze of Kleenex and tugging.

Like I said I'm not into shitting on people for trying to be innovative, I'm just saying that from the average punter's point of view originality and creativity are low on the list of considerations when purchasing their pornos, and as such there isn't much compelling producers to make the extra effort to be original. If you've got producers who recognise this and are willing to put the effort in anyway then that's laudable, but they're in the minority as far as I can see and as long as the dynamic remains the same that's probably the way it'll stay.

 

[Mister Scruff]

Not at all. I do see a point in having simplistic things as a great many people like that. What I don't understand is why despite simplicity being acceptable, that some should not strive for something deeper, something that takes work and effort. I do not feel it redundant to put effort into something.

This is true. Problem is it doesn't translate to porn, because I'm perfectly capable of tugging myself off whilst watching a girl in your average, every-day hogtie being tickled for no reason as I am watching a secret agent in elaborate bondage being tickled for information after a lengthy verbal intro. I'm not going to shit on anyone for trying to inject a bit of charisma into their work, but by the same token if that charisma comes at a premium I'm simply not willing to pay it when I can get what I'm after elsewhere.

More people would do better in the world if they put a little effort into things, no matter the subject, porn or otherwise. If everyone was okay with mediocrity and the same plain things there would not be things set aside in this world for the elite and those who are driven to succeed. I merely suggest that today's world is mostly mediocre, and that those who strive for more often get shut down by the suggestion of doing more simply because the vast majority prefers their simplistic mediocrity.

You've got yourself a whole other thread there I think.

 

[ViperGTS]

This is a big part of why my overall production has been down lately - I refuse to keep putting out the same videos over and over again with different models, saying it's "new."

I am currently looking into the prospects of tickling someone until they wet themselves, getting a foreigner into a video (as in someone who is leaving the country in less than a month), and a suspension video.

 

[GEORGIATKLER]

viper, leeallure, last laugh etc do show planning, flair and execution in their work. They also share and understand the love/lure of tickling and are not just in it for the almighty dollar. Anything can get worn out. Remenber that the next time you buy 10 Krystal hamburgers on special. I enjoy the Renfaire tapes because you see a variety of responses from 'lees that I assume are not true volunteers. The use of feathers, fingers, brushes, battery toothbrush gives a wide selection of reactions, too. Maybe we have become a little spoiled or jaded by all the product out there today. A good tickle vid is like the old line about pornography, we each know our own version when we see it. (Flashback: A cal-star tape for only $50 bucks!! We've come along way baby!) Like any other small business people in today's economy, I wish them luck.

 

[Spenser]

I dunno...

I ---loved--- watching <Samanha> cumming when ViperGTS snipped her undies off during her "interrogation" clip! Yes indeed, "great shoot" as they say in the cinema biz.

 

[Spenser]

That would have been Ms Samantha of course... (smile)