Jeff Hardy is a loser...

[SlaverTickler]

He has a chance for the biggest match of his life, against Sting, and he shows up wasted... what a loser.


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...by the way, this only adds to my belief that pro wrestling needs a union. With one of these guy being high or drunk one or both of them could have gotten hurt. This would never be allowed in a Union Environment, because there would be safety standards to prevent it.

 

[BellybTickler]

Jeff Hardy is far from a loser, he belonged to one of the most memorable tag teams in Wrestling History. Lest not forget the 2000 Summer Slam TLC Match between the Hardy Boyz, the E & C Dynasty, and The Dudley Boyz ....

Is he a shell of his former self? Yes .. BUT he is not a loser. The Industry takes its toll on every athlete.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Jeff Hardy is far from a loser, he belonged to one of the most memorable tag teams in Wrestling History. Lest not forget the 2000 Summer Slam TLC Match between the Hardy Boyz, the E & C Dynasty, and The Dudley Boyz ....

Is he a shell of his former self? Yes .. BUT he is not a loser. The Industry takes its toll on every athlete.

So you try to defend Jeff Hardy by bringing up a match that is probably the stupidest concept of all time, and really only reinforces my belief that most pro wrestling fans are just vampires hoping to see somebody fall on their head. Not to mention adding the useless Duo who brought the table match (another garbage concept) to the WWE the Dud Brothers, who did nothing during there solo runs. Of course Edge and Christian have had great careers, even if Edges was cut short, no doubt in part because those wonderful bumps he took wrestling in (again) stupid matches like Tables, Ladder,& Chairs.

Bret Hart, Scott Stiener, Kurt Angle are shells of their former selves. Jeff Hardy is simply a loser, it just taken this long for it to really show. He should go back to jumping on his trampoline and take his ass wipe brother with him.
ST

 

[The Fallen Angel]

Little late on this eh? He has drug problems that the public has been aware of for almost 3 years now. Also to call this match the biggest in his career is not even close, but ok.

By the way he is about to be in jail sometime next week, his court case has already been continued about 9 times

 

[SlaverTickler]

Little late on this eh? He has drug problems that the public has been aware of for almost 3 years now. Also to call this match the biggest in his career is not even close, but ok.

By the way he is about to be in jail sometime next week, his court case has already been continued about 9 times

He was in the main event of a PPV (TNA or otherwise) against Sting (Not a favorite of mine, but the guy still has status in the industry), when did he ever have a PPV main event against an better known star then Sting? Of course the fact that Hardy is in a main event speaks volumes for TNA's booking department. Drop kick to the knee, jump off the top rope doesn't exactly do anything for me.

By the way, you want to talk epic tag teams BBT, the Hardy boys aren't even worthy of washing the jocks of really iconic teams like the Hart Foundation, the Bulldogs, Atlas & Johnson, DOOM,The Fabulous Ones, the Islanders, Demolition, Anderson & Blanchard, The PYT Express, The American Express (Windham and Rotunda), The Midnight Express, The Rock & Roll Express, The Rockers, The Stiener Brothers, The Brisco Brothers, Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood, The Millers, the Kangaroos, the Road Warriors, and of course the greatest team of all time, The Conquistadors (no body took a beating better). Quite freankly there is a small army of men (and women if you include the Jumping Bomb Angels) that are miles ahead of the Hardy's and the Dudley Boys. Hell Reno Riggins and Barry Horowitz were more fun to watch.

Here is a mat classic from the 80's when you had to have it on the mic and in the ring (witch Jeff Hardy could do neither)

Part 1
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Part 2
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Here is a Match I never even knew had happened...

Rock & Roll Express vs The British Bulldogs (Japan)
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The British Bulldogs vs The Fantastics

Part 1
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Part 2

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[The Fallen Angel]

He was in the main event of a PPV (TNA or otherwise) against Sting (Not a favorite of mine, but the guy still has status in the industry), when did he ever have a PPV main event against an better known star then Sting? Of course the fact that Hardy is in a main event speaks volumes for TNA's booking department. Drop kick to the knee, jump off the top rope doesn't exactly do anything for me.

HHH, the Undertaker, and Edge .... and even if he hadn't i would say whoever he was facing that his WWE title wins and matches were bigger

by the way great tag teams- Road Warriors, Hart Foundation, Rockers, Midnight Express, Edge & Christian, The Dudleys, the Hardys ... thats the list, like em or not the Hardys are one of the best tag teams ever

 

[SlaverTickler]

HHH, the Undertaker, and Edge .... and even if he hadn't i would say whoever he was facing that his WWE title wins and matches were bigger

by the way great tag teams- Road Warriors, Hart Foundation, Rockers, Midnight Express, Edge & Christian, The Dudleys, the Hardys ... thats the list, like em or not the Hardys are one of the best tag teams ever

First off, HHH, not impressed, never was, never will be. He's only where he is because of who he married. The best thing he ever did was get tossed into a pile of pig shit by Henry O. Godwin. Any match Edge had with Hardy was probably shit compared to anything he did with anybody else, and I saw Jeff's matches with the Undertaker, and they were all crap. Drop kick to the knee, move off the top rope, drop kick to the knee jump off the top rope. He knows nothing of ring physiology, can't sell for shit, his punches make Ric Flair's look good (and his punches are bad), and he Just does whatever stupid stunt will get a pop from the fans. He's a spot monkey moron, and that's why his body is so fucked up, witch is why he is hooked on pain pills, and why he is a total an complete loser in the wrestling industry. Some how I doubt Taker vs Hardy would have made money as the main event of any PPV.

Regarding Tag Teams
They are far far from being in the league with the Harts, Road Warriors, or the Midnight Express. Just because they were current, and a member of the "Flavour of the Era" club doesn't make them great. That's like putting Cena on par with Lou Thez, probably one of the greatest performers of all time. Cena isn't in his league anymore then the Hardley Boys are in with the Bulldogs. Ladders + Stupid doesn't = Greatness, and the Dudley Boys are just as useless. They wouldn't be worthy of washing David Smith and Tom Wellings Jock Straps... or did you forget about the British Bulldogs? If I came up with a list of 100 tag teams the Hardy's & Dudley Boys still wouldn't make the cut.

British Bulldogs vs Stan Hanson and Terry Gordy
Part 1
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Part 2
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The Hardy's could never get over out side of the United States. Europe, Japan, even in Canada, or at least Toronto, they never got cheered when they were supposed to be baby faces, and when they were booed it wasn't heel heat, they were just plain hated by the fans. Unfortunately women started noticing them (I guess when their boy friends or brothers were watching it on TV) and they started coming to the shows and cheering for them. The funny thing is that happened at a RAW I was at once (only with Orton), and the girl kept having to ask the guy she was with "What's his name again?", obviously she was a hard core wrestling fan, and in it for the long hall, cause she only had to tell her "Randy Orton" 5 times.

ST

 

[SlaverTickler]

Who didn't the bulldogs work with?

The British Bulldogs vs Joe & Dean Malenko

Part 1
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Part 2
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Part 3
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And by the way, the Malenkos are better then the Hardy's too.

 

[The Fallen Angel]

First off, HHH, not impressed, never was, never will be. He's only where he is because of who he married. The best thing he ever did was get tossed into a pile of pig shit by Henry O. Godwin. Any match Edge had with Hardy was probably shit compared to anything he did with anybody else, and I saw Jeff's matches with the Undertaker, and they were all crap. Drop kick to the knee, move off the top rope, drop kick to the knee jump off the top rope. He knows nothing of ring physiology, can't sell for shit, his punches make Ric Flair's look good (and his punches are bad), and he Just does whatever stupid stunt will get a pop from the fans. He's a spot monkey moron, and that's why his body is so fucked up, witch is why he is hooked on pain pills, and why he is a total an complete loser in the wrestling industry. Some how I doubt Taker vs Hardy would have made money as the main event of any PPV.

Regarding Tag Teams
They are far far from being in the league with the Harts, Road Warriors, or the Midnight Express. Just because they were current, and a member of the "Flavour of the Era" club doesn't make them great. That's like putting Cena on par with Lou Thez, probably one of the greatest performers of all time. Cena isn't in his league anymore then the Hardley Boys are in with the Bulldogs. Ladders + Stupid doesn't = Greatness, and the Dudley Boys are just as useless. They wouldn't be worthy of washing David Smith and Tom Wellings Jock Straps... or did you forget about the British Bulldogs? If I came up with a list of 100 tag teams the Hardy's & Dudley Boys still wouldn't make the cut.

you didn't ask if the matches were great, you said when has he been in a bigger match so i told you

and lets see... the Dudleys are the winning-est tag team of all time and their 29 title reigns which include reigns in WWF/E,ECW,TNA,NJPW,and IWGP say they are great.

and you say Ladders and spots that put the wrestlers at risk (which are highly entertaining) don't entertain you? Well body slams,clotheslines and sleeper holds don't entertain me. Being around first doesn't make them better, your flavor of the month argument is wrong and invalid. The Hardys (like them or not...and i personally never have) are superior to most of the teams you put up.. as are the Dudleys and E&C

 

[The Fallen Angel]

The Dudleys- 29 tag team championships, won match of the year (PW insider) 2 times, tag team of the year twice, and the only team ever...ever to hold the WWE ECW WCW NJPW and TNA tag titles... hell they are the only ever to hold the WWE ECW and WCW

The Hardys- 10 tag team titles, 3 times won match of the year (PW Insider) tag team of the year once

Edge & Christian- 9 time tag team champions, 2 times won match of the year. 3 time tag team of the year

*the british bulldogs who "these teams couldn't hold their jockstraps" don't even come close to matching those accomplishments, nor do any of the teams you put down, that i didn't put in my list.. like it or not these 3 teams are 3 of the best ever

so much for flavor of the month eh?

 

[SlaverTickler]

Bulldogs vs Stud and Bundy

This one isn't so special, not like the NJPW stuff.
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[SlaverTickler]

you didn't ask if the matches were great, you said when has he been in a bigger match so i told you

and lets see... the Dudleys are the winning-est tag team of all time and their 29 title reigns which include reigns in WWF/E,ECW,TNA,NJPW,and IWGP say they are great.

and you say Ladders and spots that put the wrestlers at risk (which are highly entertaining) don't entertain you? Well body slams,clotheslines and sleeper holds don't entertain me. Being around first doesn't make them better, your flavor of the month argument is wrong and invalid. The Hardys (like them or not...and i personally never have) are superior to most of the teams you put up.. as are the Dudleys and E&C

If it isn't a good match, and it isn't a main event then how can it be bigger then working a main even with one of the industries biggest stars?

The Dudley's won allot of titles... oh wow, so what? You do realize that pro wrestling is fiction right? And that nobody really win's anything. Most of the time when they won it was probably because they were the only team around (like in ECW, the shittiest wrestling company prior to TNA.). My flavor of the month argument is dead right, not only that but most if not all of my list were wrestler who were trained by wrestlers, Not a group of effeminate boys jumping around on a trampoline. Dynamite Kid on his own it better then any of the tag teams you mentioned. It's like the time when the Stiener's ran down that list of teams they've worked with, if you were to make a copy of that list all those teams would be better then the Dudley Boys and The Hardy's because they actually knew how to work a match with some added gimmick.

No, most ladder spots don't entertain me, they are stupid, and unneeded. They needlessly shorten careers, and probably end lives allot sooner. You, and people like you remind me of folks who watch indey races hoping to see a car crash. People like you used to cheer at hangings, and beheading, and when they through Christian to the lions at the arena's. I used to call people like you Vampires, but I've rethought that, because in fiction vampires can't help what they do, you could, but you choose not to. Congratulation, fan's like you are why guys in the industry are dying before they are even 40 years old.

Saying the Hardy Boys were ever better then Bulldogs is like saying the Back Street boys were better then the Beatles. I'm not even a big Beatles fan and I have more sense then that.

Hope you're happy.
ST

 

[The Fallen Angel]

If it isn't a good match, and it isn't a main event then how can it be bigger then working a main even with one of the industries biggest stars?

The Dudley's won allot of titles... oh wow, so what? You do realize that pro wrestling is fiction right? And that nobody really win's anything. Most of the time when they won it was probably because they were the only team around (like in ECW, the shittiest wrestling company prior to TNA.). My flavor of the month argument is dead right, not only that but most if not all of my list were wrestler who were trained by wrestlers, Not a group of effeminate boys jumping around on a trampoline. Dynamite Kid on his own it better then any of the tag teams you mentioned. It's like the time when the Stiener's ran down that list of teams they've worked with, if you were to make a copy of that list all those teams would be better then the Dudley Boys and The Hardy's because they actually knew how to work a match with some added gimmick.

No, most ladder spots don't entertain me, they are stupid, and unneeded. They needlessly shorten careers, and probably end lives allot sooner. You, and people like you remind me of folks who watch indey races hoping to see a car crash. People like you used to cheer at hangings, and beheading, and when they through Christian to the lions at the arena's. I used to call people like you Vampires, but I've rethought that, because in fiction vampires can't help what they do, you could, but you choose not to. Congratulation, fan's like you are why guys in the industry are dying before they are even 40 years old.

Saying the Hardy Boys were ever better then Bulldogs is like saying the Back Street boys were better then the Beatles. I'm not even a big Beatles fan and I have more sense then that.

Hope you're happy.
ST

You realize the 80's and rasslin are gone now right? You know rasslin where they were all of 30 moves and it was unathletic as hell? You can keep holding on to the "good ole days" but the wrestlers now and from the attitude era wrestle/ed circles around your good ole boys

The Dudleys won a lot of tag titles because they were the best damn team in the buisness, not because they were just handed them.. but its pointless arguing with you, when your wrong and refuse to see it

 

[SlaverTickler]

The Dudleys- 29 tag team championships, won match of the year (PW insider) 2 times, tag team of the year twice, and the only team ever...ever to hold the WWE ECW WCW NJPW and TNA tag titles... hell they are the only ever to hold the WWE ECW and WCW

The Hardys- 10 tag team titles, 3 times won match of the year (PW Insider) tag team of the year once

Edge & Christian- 9 time tag team champions, 2 times won match of the year. 3 time tag team of the year

*the british bulldogs who "these teams couldn't hold their jockstraps" don't even come close to matching those accomplishments, nor do any of the teams you put down, that i didn't put in my list.. like it or not these 3 teams are 3 of the best ever

so much for flavor of the month eh?

Nothing in your argument means anything, simply because it's all based on "Winning Titles". The problem is you don't have to be any good to win a title in Pro Wrestling, you just have to be popular or hated depending on what they company wants from you. So it is all pretty much flavor of the month or "era" as I actually called it (to bad you don't actually read what you are replying too). You can have all the great promo's you want (not that either team ever has) you can have the flashy entrances and the cool costumes (not that either team ever has) but once you are in the ring, you can either put on a good match or you can't, and with out gimmicks the Dudley's and Hardy's would be lost for what to do.

The fact that these two teams even held titles actually furthers my belief that winning a championship hasn't meant anything in a long time.

ST

 

[The Fallen Angel]

Nothing in your argument means anything, simply because it's all based on "Winning Titles". The problem is you don't have to be any good to win a title in Pro Wrestling, you just have to be popular or hated depending on what they company wants from you. So it is all pretty much flavor of the month or "era" as I actually called it (to bad you don't actually read what you are replying too). You can have all the great promo's you want (not that either team ever has) you can have the flashy entrances and the cool costumes (not that either team ever has) but once you are in the ring, you can either put on a good match or you can't, and with out gimmicks the Dudley's and Hardy's would be lost for what to do.

The fact that these two teams even held titles actually furthers my belief that winning a championship hasn't meant anything in a long time.

ST

flashy gimmicks? their gimmicks were being brothers.....but ok i guess that is flashy to a rasslin fan

and i told you ALL....ALL! wrestlers today can and do out wrestle, wrestlers from the 80's and have since the attitude era.. its harder hitting, faster paced with much more variety of moves. Your argument is like saying NFL players from the 80's could hang today....they couldn't, are there a very select few who could...sure but as a whole they couldn't because the product has gotten better.

Same goes for the WWE and wrestling in general. It has passed you rasslin fans by and you apparently can't realize that its far better today and let go of that good ole rasslin for some wrestling. Yes its fake but it still takes athleticism and the ability to play a character and tell a story in the ring... but you keep your rassling and old beliefs about how the "good ole days" were the best.. its wrong but ok

 

[SlaverTickler]

You realize the 80's and rasslin are gone now right? You know rasslin where they were all of 30 moves and it was unathletic as hell? You can keep holding on to the "good ole days" but the wrestlers now and from the attitude era wrestle/ed circles around your good ole boys

The Dudleys won a lot of tag titles because they were the best damn team in the buisness, not because they were just handed them.. but its pointless arguing with you, when your wrong and refuse to see it

I guess it's better to be a move wrestler like the Hardy's or the Dueleys. I guess you are forgetting the Awesome match Hart had with Smith at Summer Slam for the IC title, or the wars the Foundation had with the Bulldogs. By the way The Harts, Midnight Express, and the Road Warriors were all tag teams from the 80's, so like most of the Junior Era wrestling fans you contradicted yourself, and proved you abduntley ignorant on the subject.

The Dudleys won at lot of their "titles" because allot of times they were the only consistent team in the company. They are one of the worst tag teams in the history of pro wrestling witch is why they worked for one of the worst companies in the history of Pro Wrestling (ECW), and why they currently work for the worst company in pro wrestling history(TNA).

None of your tag teams could wrestle circles around anybody, because they'd have to learn how to be good at it before they could develop the skills to be great.

ST

 

[The Fallen Angel]

I guess it's better to be a move wrestler like the Hardy's or the Dueleys. I guess you are forgetting the Awesome match Hart had with Smith at Summer Slam for the IC title, or the wars the Foundation had with the Bulldogs. By the way The Harts, Midnight Express, and the Road Warriors were all tag teams from the 80's, so like most of the Junior Era wrestling fans you contradicted yourself, and proved you abduntley ignorant on the subject.

The Dudleys won at lot of their "titles" because allot of times they were the only consistent team in the company. They are one of the worst tag teams in the history of pro wrestling witch is why they worked for one of the worst companies in the history of Pro Wrestling (ECW), and why they currently work for the worst company in pro wrestling history(TNA).

None of your tag teams could wrestle circles around anybody, because they'd have to learn how to be good at it before they could develop the skills to be great.

ST

notice i said besides the teams i listed when this argument started?Or that i stated there were a select few that could hang today? You know the ones i personally listed as being great?

and its been said before... one great match doesn't make a career, davey was nothing but a below average wrestler who had some good matches with bret.

Im done arguing about this, you couldn't be more wrong or as you put it... ignorant on the subject (especially since according to you, you don't watch and haven't in a long time) you wouldn't know anything about the product or the talent it has... in any company. Keep ignoring it today and stay in the 80's with very below average rasslin

end

 

[SlaverTickler]

flashy gimmicks? their gimmicks were being brothers.....but ok i guess that is flashy to a rasslin fan

and i told you ALL....ALL! wrestlers today can and do out wrestle, wrestlers from the 80's and have since the attitude era.. its harder hitting, faster paced with much more variety of moves. Your argument is like saying NFL players from the 80's could hang today....they couldn't, are there a very select few who could...sure but as a whole they couldn't because the product has gotten better.

Same goes for the WWE and wrestling in general. It has passed you rasslin fans by and you apparently can't realize that its far better today and let go of that good ole rasslin for some wrestling. Yes its fake but it still takes athleticism and the ability to play a character and tell a story in the ring... but you keep your rassling and old beliefs about how the "good ole days" were the best.. its wrong but ok

First of all LEARN TO FUCKING READ, I said neither the Hardy's or Dudley's had flashy gimmicks. Next, the Dudley's and Hardy's couldn't wrestle a decent match if somebody was holding gun on them. 3rd, (and as always) your NFL comparison is stupid, because Wrestling is a fixed environment, so making any comparison to any other sport it ridiculous. If the product for today is better then why are so many more guys getting hurt? Why is Ric Flair in his 60's and some guys in today's era not making it to their 40's. Why did Edge have to retires recently, while Lou Theze had a match when he was in his 70's (and still in really good shape I might add, because the product is crap, and it's been crap for a long time. It's crap because too many jack asses want to see morons taking stupid risks, because they don't care if the other guy gets hurt, why should they it's not their life. It's shit that requires no real athleticism at all. Any idiot can jump off a latter onto somebody laying across a table, or bashing somebody with a chair, it's just that most people have enough brains not to.

Tables Ladders & Chairs is the single stupidest concept in the history of the industry, and the fact that you don't realize it puts you in a category so beneath contempt I can't even begin to describe it. Then again they say ignorance is bliss, and if that is true you must be the happiest wrestling fan around. If it wasn't for my last GR warning from Myriads I would really tell you what I think of you, but unfortunately I have been censored

Wrestling didn't pass me by, I just got off the ban wagon when it kept running over guys like Guerrero, Benoit, Owen Hart, and Brian Pilman. I know their deaths don't mean anything to callous & parsimonious types such as yourself. I have far to much respect for myself to lower my standards as a human being to the decadent levels of the poisoned minds of the old Roman Empire. There is no reason for guys who play fight for a living to be on pain killers and use steroids. Then again you are callous and selfish so that probably doesn't matter to you, so long as you are entertained what do you care who it kills.

Again, I am sure you will pretend to care with they have the next memorial show for a wrestler who has died long before his time (probably Jeff Hardy while he is in prison), it's the fashionable thing for you to do. Then the next night you will go back to supporting the very crap that helped kill him (or maybe it will be a her). Stupid gimmick matches that require no talent at all, just a lack of common sense, (and an abundence of pain killers) something that I am guessing runs through the Hardy blood line, as well as the LoMonaco and Hughes families.

ST

 

[SlaverTickler]

notice i said besides the teams i listed when this argument started?Or that i stated there were a select few that could hang today? You know the ones i personally listed as being great?

and its been said before... one great match doesn't make a career, davey was nothing but a below average wrestler who had some good matches with bret.

Im done arguing about this, you couldn't be more wrong or as you put it... ignorant on the subject (especially since according to you, you don't watch and haven't in a long time) you wouldn't know anything about the product or the talent it has... in any company. Keep ignoring it today and stay in the 80's with very below average rasslin

end

Actually you are wrong, one great match can make a career. The actual saying is "Your only as good as your last match." being that it is the one most people will remember you for. Then again if you actually knew what you are talking about you would already know that, that's why your the happiest wrestling fan in the world. The saddist part about all this is that even Prime Time would agree with me on how all those other teams were better then you stupid, useless Dudley Boys.

Actually I watched SmackDown this past Firday and I watched Raw about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Smackdown wasn't bad, but Raw was horrible. Mind you their weren't any stupid gimmick matches on either show so that could be why I didn't mind some of the stuff on Friday night.

Keep being ignorant Angel, it seem to be what you are best at.
ST

 

[Heeko]

First, I find the idea of 'arguing' over such a meaningless and pointless concept idea as pro wrestling almost laughable. The characters are fiction, the storylines are fiction and any outcome is predetermined. Those fundamentals in themselves make any argument or debate on the subject laughable.

The old saying used to be "a pro wrestling title and a quarter would buy you a cup of coffee". Given today's economy, it's probably more like 1.30 now.

I find it very difficult to say so-and-so is better than so-and-so when they are merely actors playing out a written script. True, one can be more athletic and have more in-ring ability than another, but that becomes a mute point when they are forced to play out a predetermined script.

The writers and creative directors are the ones with true power. You are only as good as they say you are, no matter who you are, how strong you are or how big you are. If they say get hit in the back, roll over and take a three count then that's what you do (if you want to keep your job).

So to argue or debate that "this tag team" or "that tag team" is better than another is really rather pointless. It's all a matter of who gets the better script to follow.

This is nothing new, but I find it laughable to see so much banter on something so meaningless.

 

[SlaverTickler]

First, I find the idea of 'arguing' over such a meaningless and pointless idea as pro wrestling almost laughable. The characters are fiction, the storylines are fiction and any outcome is predetermined. Those fundamentals in themselves make any argument or debate on the subject laughable.

I find it laughable that somebody who feels that way has so much time on their hands as to comment on the topic. My argument stems purely from the athletic aspect of the performers, and it always has. Then again I've never had much respect for you, or your disregard for the physical demands of the people who do this job. I could really careless about what goes regarding the lame ass, poor man's SNL antics that the WWE or TNA put on, witch is a waist of time when they could be focusing the athletic skills that many of the performers have.

If it wasn't for the invention of Hard Core Stupid guys like Edge wouldn't have to retire so young. Although with the current environment, and disregard that most fan have (such as Fallen Angel, Prime Time and FlockofSeagul) for the physical well being of the people who provide them with their entertainment, it's likely that he would have met a worse fate as the moral demise of the wrestling fan continues to spiral downward with increased momentum. Maybe a "Bed of Nails" match, I'll bet that would give the vampire types a hard on. Then again they already have matches where you set the other guy on fire. Witch doesn't seem so bad when you consider it's always a covered part of the body, but one mistake and a guy can go over the top rope, crash into the funnels holding the flammable liquid and ends up getting badly hurt if not killed. That's ok though, because it was really entertaining to watch, and the show will continue because we wouldn't want the fans to riot over having their entertainment taken from them.

Then again if you actually bothered to read any of this (or any other threads I've posted on) then you would know I don't care much about what "titles" people have held. Flair was 16 time champion... so what... Hart was a 7 time champion... so what? It doesn't change the fact that Hart could put on a better show in the ring then Flair could ever dream of doing. Where my concerns have always been is the stupid crap these people end up doing to entertain a fan base of vultures who are going to be calling them Broken Down Losers in 10-20 years anyway. The truth is, the fan base that deserves the least amount of respect from the industry it supports are wrestling fans, because time and time again they prove they don't give a shit about the people in the industry.

Now if you think that is laughable, then go fuck yourself, and the mods can handle it however they feel they have too.
ST

 

[Heeko]

I usually do ignore the nonsense you spew out, along with the useless youtube videos you like to post that wastefully clutters threads with more nonsense.

But coming from you that's not surprising.

I do find it comical that you can get so worked up over a business that subjects their employees to standards you do not approve. No one forces these guys to become pro wrestlers. They are all grown adults who are capable of making their own career choices.

If they voluntarily (and they do) enter such a business, knowing full well the consequences of being in such a business, how is that fault of the fan?

You insult the fans and claim they are responsible for the misfortunes of the wrestlers. Yet the fans do not write the scripts, make the sets, determine the match outcomes or decide any risk the performer takes.

You are barking up the wrong tree sparky. If it wasn't for the fans, pro wrestling would be extinct. Blame the grown adult wrestlers who are too stupid to stand up for themselves and make a safe career choice which you approve.

But to debate over something predetermined and totally fiction is just stupid.

 

[SlaverTickler]

I do find it comical that you can get so worked up over a business that subjects their employees to standards you do not approve. No one forces these guys to become pro wrestlers. They are all grown adults who are capable of making their own career choices.

If they voluntarily (and they do) enter such a business, knowing full well the consequences of being in such a business, how is that fault of the fan?

You insult the fans and claim they are responsible for the misfortunes of the wrestlers. Yet the fans do not write the scripts, make the sets, determine the match outcomes or decide any risk the performer takes.

You are barking up the wrong tree sparky. If it wasn't for the fans, pro wrestling would be extinct. Blame the grown adult wrestlers who are too stupid to stand up for themselves and make a safe career choice which you approve.

But to debate over something predetermined and totally fiction is just stupid.

So you feel it is alright for an employer to abuse the people who works for him or her because they choose to be in a certain industry. Wow, I guess you don't recall the abuse people went through working as truck drivers or tradesmen on construction sites. You are right about one thing, I do partly blame the fans for the what happens to the wrestlers because by supporting the industry they are telling the promoter that they are ok with the needless & senseless abuse these people put themselves through. Fallen Angle is proof of that with his own words.

The wrestlers don't volunteer for matches they are asked, and what do you think happens to them if they refuse? Suddenly the writers can't come up with anything for them to do, they get taken off Pay Per View and TV, and when their merchandise isn't selling well (because they have been taken off TV and PPV) they are let go because they aren't making the company money. All because they were sane enough to say no to getting suplexed off of a 20 foot ladder.

If the fan's didn't suport it, the company wouldn't produce it, and the wrestlers would do it. However the fan's pay to see it, witch is why the promotions put it in their shows, and the wrestlers perform the matches. Everything done in wrestling is written around what the fans want, because the fans are their only real source of revenue. Proof of this is when Vince made an effort to get steroids out of his company, and what happened, the fan's left because they couldn't see their juiced up titans any more. They didn't care about the fact that steroids will kill the wrestlers so long as they are entertained. It's the same with all the gimmick matches you see today. Tables, Ladders, & Chairs indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I spread the blame pretty evenly. However I can't exactly talk to the guys who wrestle the matches, or the promoters who book them. Besides, as I stated earlier, if the fans didn't want it, the companies wouldn't do it. Cornette explains it allot better then I could in the interview I posted. The one you won't watch because you know you can't dispute a guy if he is actually in the industry.

Was Owen Harts death fiction? Was the murder suicide of the Benoit family fictional? Both of these incidence were related to wrestling. Owen's stems from the fact that the WWE didn't care enough to ensure his safety when he did that stupid "super hero" entrance, and the Benoit tragedy happened because pro wrestling in general is not made to follow any safety standards at all (unlike people in the stunt industry). Then again if they brought in safety standard to pro wrestling you could say good bye to you TLC and Inferno matches, and all the ass holes who claim to be wrestling fans would walk away, because safe working conditions makes for a boring wrestling show. So the only person left looking stupid, as well as callous, is you "Sparky" and the rest of the fan base (that I am proud to no longer be a member of).

Until the wrestling industry is cleaned up, I'll keep coming on here and pissing all over it, because it's my right as a member of a free western society to express my opinion whether you like it or not.

ST

 

[Flatfoot]

I love nerd rage!

He has a chance for the biggest match of his life, against Sting, and he shows up wasted... what a loser.


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...by the way, this only adds to my belief that pro wrestling needs a union. With one of these guy being high or drunk one or both of them could have gotten hurt. This would never be allowed in a Union Environment, because there would be safety standards to prevent it.

Wow... I just wanna say that if I paid for this pay-per-view, or worse, a TICKET to this pay-per-view, I'd be super-pissed! Whatever hardships and working conditions these guys have, that was highly irresponsible for Jeff Hardy to attempt to work in that condition, and it's a good thing they kept it from escalating, but it's a helluva loss for the fans, as well. If I was Mike Tenay or Tazz, I'd hate myself for having to sell that "shocking" match on commentary. Jeff Hardy, as a performer, should never have been allowed to continue working for the company after showing up for a job like that, ESPECIALLY a pay-per-view main event.

you didn't ask if the matches were great, you said when has he been in a bigger match so i told you

and lets see... the Dudleys are the winning-est tag team of all time and their 29 title reigns which include reigns in WWF/E,ECW,TNA,NJPW,and IWGP say they are great.

and you say Ladders and spots that put the wrestlers at risk (which are highly entertaining) don't entertain you? Well body slams,clotheslines and sleeper holds don't entertain me. Being around first doesn't make them better, your flavor of the month argument is wrong and invalid. The Hardys (like them or not...and i personally never have) are superior to most of the teams you put up.. as are the Dudleys and E&C

You realize the 80's and rasslin are gone now right? You know rasslin where they were all of 30 moves and it was unathletic as hell? You can keep holding on to the "good ole days" but the wrestlers now and from the attitude era wrestle/ed circles around your good ole boys

The Dudleys won a lot of tag titles because they were the best damn team in the buisness, not because they were just handed them.. but its pointless arguing with you, when your wrong and refuse to see it

This makes me think back to all the changes in move trends that happened over the years. I remember before I ever saw Mexican wrestlers doing hurricanranas multiple times in a single match, I saw a lithe, non-roided Scott Steiner doing a Frankensteiner as a finishing maneuver. Then, I remember a boring overuse of powerbombs, roughly in or before the Attitude era. Sometime later, it seemed like match flow was heavily dependent upon Irish whips. When's the last time you saw an atomic drop or a pile driver? Oh wait, I think pile drivers are no longer allowed for safety reasons, not that they'd really be entertaining to watch, anyway. The industry is about innovation, and today's talent is challenged to come up with new, exciting moves to watch that haven't been seen yet, and aren't too dangerous to perform. I remember some years back, some Japanese guy (I think his name was Kenzo Suzuki) debuted, and I seriously wasn't impressed with how dangerous they tried to bill him. I was probably stereotyping him, expecting him to be some high-flying, martial artist, which he really wasn't. His finisher was basically a lame, foot-sweep while he held his opponent's head and went down with his opponent--Oh! Even worse today, David Otunga's finisher, which almost seemed like its creation was the result of a botch in his initial match on NXT with Darren Young. I would never expect paying wrestling fans to get excited by seeing a match end with a move like that.

Slaver, I'll give you some merit on TLC matches being dangerous. Incorporating objects can be entertaining, especially for the blood-thirsty, backyard wrestling-type fans, but I can also respect a talent's ability to skillfully take a chair-shot to the face. I have a customer who wrestles independently as a hobby in her off-time, and she told me a while back how she busted her nose when a chair-shot wasn't executed properly by someone (the only person she really trusted to hit her with a chair) she was working with. However, I could be just as entertained by lucha libre matches without weapons. Fast-paced, high-flying matches that display wrestling ability in an exciting fashion. It's all about putting butts in seats, though. Matches like that sell. These guys know what they're getting into. People in this industry don't do it because, "Ho hum. I just HATE workin' for the MAN, but gosh darn it, I need a paycheck, and professional wrestling is all I've got!" Well, that MIGHT be true for Hulk Hogan, and maybe Ric Flair... I dunno. Seriously, though, they do it because they love the business. A union would probably be a good idea, though.

 

[Heeko]

Until the wrestling industry is cleaned up, I'll keep coming on here and pissing all over it, because it's my right as a member of a free western society to express my opinion whether you like it or not.

ST

That we agree on Slaver. You have a right to your opinion as does everyone here.

The two unfortunate events you mentioned are not related to the silly debate of 'my team is better than yours'. It's silly to debate about something written and predetermined. You are mixing apples and oranges.

Grown adults make their own career choices. No one forces anyone to be a pro wrestler. I'm sure anyone considering signing a contract is well aware of Owen and Benoit. Yet these grown adults are doing it. Making their own choices about their careers given the past history and reputation of the business.

They know about the ladder matches.

They know about the inferno matches.

They know about the drugs, steroids, politics and all the corrupt elements of this position.

They know about Owen. They know about Benoit.

Yet they voluntarily, knowingly and willfully sign to do such a career.

And again I ask you, how is this the fault of the fan?