Knismolagnia Dysphoria

[Aeveirra]

~~~~~~ Intro ~~~~~~
Many people on this forum are perfectly happy with having their fetish, but there are also those who are not. This post is intended to look into the science / and psychology of tickling paraphillia, to explain why some people are unhappy with having Knismolagnia
The idea is hopefully by learning more about this, people can better understand themselves.


~~~~~~ Knismolagnia Dysphoria ~~~~~~
What is this? This an emotional state where people are negatively affected by having Knismolagnia (tickling fetishism). Whereby, they struggle to deal with how it affects their social and love life.

~~~~~~ Ler vs Lee, and Gender Dynamics ~~~~~~
- - - - Telling ones' partner about this can be hard for those who are insecure about what others may think of them. It also may depend on the dynamic with Lers vs Lees, and even gender. It is much harder for lers to divulge their fetish to their partner, because it puts that person in a position of vulnerability, - especially if they do not like being tickled. Knowing that their partner wants to tickle them could make them anxious, and uncomfortable.

- - - - For lees, I think it is much easier; because it has the opposite effect. It gives the other person a bit more control, and it is a simple way for them to make their partner happy. Even if they are not into it themselves, this is much less detrimental to their relationship.

- - - - I have heard claims that dealing with this is easier for girls. That may be true, but I think it has much more to do with the ( Lee vs Ler ) dynamic. In this case, it seems that (on average) most girls tend to be Lees, and most Lers tend to be guys. However, I think a female Ler can also struggle with the same issues a guy Ler would, because in both cases, they put their partner in a position of vulnerability. (Again, if they don't like being tickled, and only allow themselves to be to appease their partner, it's not a mutually positive interaction.

The unfortunate reality of Knismolagnia, (which I did not realize myself until somewhat recently) ; is, even though tickling is in itself, a very common behavior, tickling fetishism seems to be quite uncommon; I'd be willing to say it may be one of the rarest paraphillias out there. I for one do not know a single person in real life who has this, and I bet many others on here can say the same.
I am not certain about this, but the inability to find someone else who shares this interest may make a person feel more alone/ isolated. Which, is a negative aspect of being a ticklephile.

~~~~~~~~~~ Possible Scientific Explanation ~~~~~~~~~
I've studied the neuropsychology of this, and have found that it is very different than how most other kinks affect people. Tickling is ( by far ) one of the most psychologically-powerful fetishes a person can have.
** I theorized this is because it may develop in the hypothalamus brain region (which, if true would be the only fetish that does, as all others develop in the reward system). There is however evidence which suggests this to be the case. (See : "Knismolagnia Neuroscience theory" in my earlier post)
This difference causes us to categorize tickling as a basic form of attraction, - rather than just a "kink". The main idea of this theory, is that tickling fetishism is more closely related to ones' sexual orientation ( attraction preferences ), and so it has a stronger link to ones' sexuality than other fetishes do.( Knismolagnia seems to be the only one linked in the brain this way, which is why people who have it tend to be strongly influenced by it
.**

~~~~~~~~~ How it can Negatively Affect Someone ~~~~~~~
Nearly all People I have ever encountered on this site and elswhere, who have this fetish - all have it VERY strongly. Typically it's also their *only* /or "primary" fetish. Again, this is very psychologically different than how any other kinks are known to work.
That said, this has a profound impact on both our social & sexual lives.
For many of us, ** but Especially for those who suffer from Knismolagnia Dysphoria**, are not even open to the idea of trying "new" things, because their focus on tickling is extremely strong.
This appears to be a big problem such people have, because they feel limited. The reality is that, yes sexually speaking, this is a limitation. And knowing this causes some people to feel upset because it is also one reason relationships are difficult to establish with people who have different interests.

~~~~~~~~~~~~ Summary ~~~~~~~~~~~~
The root of the problem people have with tickling fetishism, which causes Knismolagnia Dysphoria, is a combination of some of these reasons:

1) This fetish is uncommon, making it difficult to find others who have it.

2a) Has an extremely powerful psychological connection to ones' sexuality.

2b) The psychological link causes an inability to diversify other sexual interests, tickling is fixated on ; sometimes to the point of obsession.

3) Most people do NOT like being tickled, (we are biologically wired this way) This can make relationships difficult, because the partner is unhappy. One is not able to adapt to the other. (Often, this is the other person who is not into tickling; They can not stand their partners' fetish, and leave them for this reason.)

4) It can make a person feel limited if it's the only thing they are into, and they have an unwanted near-obsession / fixation.
(People who feel this way often wish they could get rid of Knismolagnia)

______________ ______________ ______________ ______________

I know this post may not apply to everyone, but we should be mindful that there are some of us who are really struggling with this. They find it negatively effects their' social / love life, and they are genuinely unhappy they have a tickling fetish.

Well, I'm sorry to say, that I do not have the answer, or "cure" to fix this. In fact, I believe it's near-impossible for someone to fully "get rid of" this fetish. Even trying to manage it can be a very hard thing for some people to do.

** Even though it may be difficult, I'd say the best option for someone who has Knismolagnia Dysphoria, is for them to find someone else (a partner ) , who also shares their interest. As I said, it's challenging if they don't. Also, being broken-up with because the partner can not accept ones' fetish has major blows to ones' self confidence. This could also cause a ticklephile to be unhappy with themselves.
The next best thing, ( I personally believe ), is to learn more about it. I think a better understanding is always helpful, and is the key to finding solace.

We must realize, that it's not something we can control, but it's also not something to be ashamed of. It's simply a part of who we are as individuals.

Tickling fetishism, in it's own nature poses significant challenges when overcoming any negative feelings one has about how it affects them,
but it is absolutely possible for those who struggle with it, to find happiness.

I hope people found this post to be helpful 🙂

 

[kingofkaboom]

So how does one go about "fixing" it? Not the fetish itself but rather the dysphoria that can come with it.

 

[Aeveirra]

So how does one go about "fixing" it? Not the fetish itself but rather the dysphoria that can come with it.

Lol, um.... Read the last couple paragraphs of this....
I said " I do not have the answer or "cure" to fix this"

However, I did offer some advice 🙂
I guess I can re-phrase it: what you have to do, is find another person who either accepts, or shares the same interest in tickling as you do.
I've never been in a relationship where the other person had the same fetish as me, (but I'm a lee, and everyone Ive dated loved tickling me) But the thing is, they were all ok with me being into tickling.

That's really the way to "fix" this. Is to be able to fulfill your wants/needs.
Not by trying to ignore or suppress them. as said before, i think this kink in particular has a VERY strong psychological connection/influence over sexuality, and so trying to get rid of this fetish just is not possible.
It's better to try and work with it.
And that's only by finding a partner who is willing to fully accept it, or actually has Knismolagnia too.

This is all my own thoughts and ideas obviously, but I honestly think it's good advice that could be very helpful for making others happier 🙂

 

[Sensualswitch10]

So how does one go about "fixing" it? Not the fetish itself but rather the dysphoria that can come with it.

What an enlightening thread Aeveirra!
I think your general advice to "find another person who either accepts or shares the same interest in tickling as you do" is spot on. However, this is easier said than done for most people. Since it seems very unlikely to find a fellow ticklephile that you are otherwise compatible with, I will focus on getting your significant other to accept it.

As Av said, it is more difficult to be a ler than a lee because lers are asking to put their partner in a position of vulnerability. For that to work, there needs to be a lot of trust. If you can learn (as I did) to be a willing lee, then you can show your partner that you trust them enough to put yourself in a position of vulnerability. That can go a long way.

I didn't always enjoy the sensation of being tickled, but I did come to associate it with a positive. When someone tickles you, generally they would be acknowledging that they are willing to be tickled back. Thus the first step in "ler-ning" to lee. (Sorry, I can't resist a bad pun) Allowing oneself to be a lee and being willing to be tied up yourself if you want to tie your partner can make it easier for both people. Having great sex after a tickle session certainly doesn't hurt.

You cannot simply focus on the tickling. Like anything else in a relationship, there needs to be balance. In other words, make a conscious effort to figure out specifically what your SO is into and give it to her/him. If they are satisfied, they are more likely to be willing to satisfy you, even if they find it a little unusual.

Please don't take this as me thinking I have all the answers (not even close) or that I'm talking down to people. Just wanted to share what has worked for me on this front. I've had a lot of success lately with being accepted by gfs who aren't into tickling with this approach.

And from one scientist to another, you rock Aeveirra! Please keep the intellectual threads coming!

 

[Myriads]

Lets take these summery points in order.

The root of the problem people have with tickling fetishism, which causes Knismolagnia Dysphoria, is a combination of some of these reasons:

1) This fetish is uncommon, making it difficult to find others who have it.

No it's not uncommon. Its one of the more common paraphilia out there, easily in the top 10. Business history of pornography industry shows that tickling was popular enough for mainline porn producers to get into and maintain as sub-lines until the web killed the old models. It shows up fairly often in sample groups that are honest. There is a bias in reporting it often, as many are embarrassed by it.

But one thing tickling is not is uncommon as a paraphilia.

2a) Has an extremely powerful psychological connection to ones' sexuality.

2b) The psychological link causes an inability to diversify other sexual interests, tickling is fixated on ; sometimes to the point of obsession.

Both these points are true for ALL paraphilia. They by definition have powerful connections to the individuals sexuality, and become points of obsession to the detriment of other sexual aspects (and thus become fetishes). Tickling is not special, it's just like all the other paraphilia out there on these points.

3) Most people do NOT like being tickled, (we are biologically wired this way) This can make relationships difficult, because the partner is unhappy. One is not able to adapt to the other. (Often, this is the other person who is not into tickling; They can not stand their partners' fetish, and leave them for this reason.)

Most people do not like being whipped, cut, have their breathing restricted, be pissed on, be forced to be tied into painful positions and on and on. Partners have incompatible likes across the spectrum. Heck lets take the relatively vanilla anal sex as an example. A good number of couples significantly differ on that one.

You'll see sexual incompatibilities across the spectrum of all sexual behaviors that are not in the thin realm of normal.

Tickling is not a special snowflake here either.

4) It can make a person feel limited if it's the only thing they are into, and they have an unwanted near-obsession / fixation.
(People who feel this way often wish they could get rid of Knismolagnia)

Once again, this is the same for ALL paraphilia/fetish. Holders feel this way all the time.

The issue with these posts is that tickling is always being set up as something special or different from the rest of the sexual spectrum. "It's unique" "It's special" etc.

No. No it's not. It's just another paraphilia. One among hundreds. And it behaves like all the others also from the psychological viewpoints.

It's very natural when one holds a paraphilia to want it to be different or special from the rest. It's a form of psychological distancing from 'all those other folks with weird likes'. But it's not a productive path to try and separate ones sexual preference from others. It's setting one up for a lot of disappointment. Because we are all the same, and pulling the wool over ones own eyes just creates artificial divisions, and occludes having a good look at ones sexuality.

Myriads

 

[Wolf]

To save space, this is where all the smart words from Myriads would go.

Spot on with this one, as usual. Aside from the completely bogus "scientific" approach, there are some incredibly dubious statements of "fact", like:

Most people do NOT like being tickled, (we are biologically wired this way) This can make relationships difficult, because the partner is unhappy. One is not able to adapt to the other. (Often, this is the other person who is not into tickling; They can not stand their partners' fetish, and leave them for this reason.)

This is complete bullshit, and not because my own experience shows the opposite to be true; it's because, like all of these posts, it posits a false "fact" and then works from there (conveniently blaming everyone and everything else for the paraphiliac's lack of happiness).

Jesus H. Christ on a club sandwich (with extra bacon), it's just a kink. It doesn't make you one of the X-men.

 

[Aeveirra]

Lol, this was cute

But .... Sadly Myriads is wrong, tickling paraphillia is not in the top 10 most common. Not even the top 50. It IS more uncommon than you think, that's why we see some people on here upset that they can't find a single person in their area that likes it too.

Humans evolved to AVOID tickling, that's why we naturally curl up and tend to pull away.

No need of such harsh words dude. You don't have a clue about how this kink works.
It's not really your "fault", there's just not too much information about it on here.
Hhaha, But clearly your just not as knowledgable about this.
I highly doubt you've actually documented ANY data on this yourself. That would explain your ignorance.

You can be as pissed-off as you want, but It means nothing.
If only you had a better idea of what Knismolagnia is, and how it affects people.
Looks like everything I said here , just went right over your head!

Pity, really. Some people are able to grasp such abstract concepts.

Spot on with this one, as usual. Aside from the completely bogus "scientific" approach, there are some incredibly dubious statements of "fact", like:

Most people do NOT like being tickled, (we are biologically wired this way) This can make relationships difficult, because the partner is unhappy. One is not able to adapt to the other. (Often, this is the other person who is not into tickling; They can not stand their partners' fetish, and leave them for this reason.)

This is complete bullshit, and not because my own experience shows the opposite to be true; it's because, like all of these posts, it posits a false "fact" and then works from there (conveniently blaming everyone and everything else for the paraphiliac's lack of happiness).

Jesus H. Christ on a club sandwich (with extra bacon), it's just a kink. It doesn't make you one of the X-men.

 

[Aeveirra]

***Myriads​

I feel like you intentionally try to be a "devils advocate".
Others agree with many of the points I've made here, and can relate.
just because you do not, doesn't mean it's all wrong.

This is primarily based off what ive seen in this site, what people have told me time and time again.
So I thought it may be helpful.
Why such harsh criticism?

I don't understand why You dont like anything I post on here related to gaining knowledge about Knismolagnia.
Or at least try to get people to think about it in a new way. 🙁
That's all I'm really trying to do.

Dozens of people have told me the things I posed here, and I thought it could offer some insight.
Im Sorry if it wasn't good enough...

 

[Myriads]

But .... Sadly Myriads is wrong, tickling paraphillia is not in the top 10 most common. Not even the top 50. It IS more uncommon than you think, that's why we see some people on here upset that they can't find a single person in their area that likes it too.

I can only think that you feel its so rare because you don't have a clue about reporting bias. Don't know what that is because you work in the physical sciences? It's the phenomena that sociologists and psychologists see when they ask people questions. People LIE. They don;t report their sexual turn ons. Too shy? Too embarrassed? Who knows. But a significant percent of the population chooses the closet. You can't get good data by asking folks.

You need to rely on shadows. In the case of paraphilia we happily have a wonderful shadow to measure. The porn industry. And you know what, tickling is top 10 baby. We have more web sites, producers, forums, gatherings, pirated material posted on porn hub, and overall dollars spent on our paraphilia material then all but a handful of other ones. We ARE popular.

That is how you measure a sexual paraphilia population. By it's shadow.

This measuring style was pioneered in the early 2000's once the web started to have a manifest effect. It's proven to be very reliable in predicting population sizes.

Humans evolved to AVOID tickling, that's why we naturally curl up and tend to pull away.

Oh? Infants delight in tickling play. Where the behavior acts as one of several core bonding mechanisms between child and parent. Tickling is also integrated into courtship behavior (flirting) where it's often one of the first touch boundary breaching actions.

The behavior is not all avoidance oriented. Don't confuse YOUR reactions to it with the whole populations. Also don't forget that the behavior has more then one function in human interaction.

I feel like you intentionally try to be a "devils advocate".
Others agree with many of the points I've made here, and can relate.
just because you do not, doesn't mean it's all wrong.

I'm not playing devils advocate. I'm pointing out base flaws in your concepts which you present as facts. Incorrect information is harmful, and should always be marked out as such for people.

I have no doubts that many people will have antidotal agreement with you statements. But that is hardly proof of anything, it's just seeing a pattern that fits. Not an explanation that has some tested weight behind it. Just because people feel they agree doesn't mean they are agreeing with a true position.

You start with erroneous precepts for many of your 'points'. That tends to undermine them. It's not that I don't agree, but you are selling junk science. And that I'll point out.

This is primarily based off what ive seen in this site, what people have told me time and time again.
So I thought it may be helpful.

And it is helpful to a point. But it's useless for greater theory building. This site is operating under a selection bias. It attracts people who feel very specifically about tickling, and are open to discuss it to an extent. THIS IS NOT A NORMAL POPULATION SAMPLE. And as such you can't form useful conclusions from it. Personal observations are just antidotal, and not built on a big enough sample set to have weight.

You might be a great physical research and scientist. But you don't have a clue in the areas of psychology, sociology, or sexual psycho-development.

Why such harsh criticism?

Because bad information is toxic, and causes problems that are exponentially big as time passes. It needs to be checked often and early.

I don't understand why You dont like anything I post on here related to gaining knowledge about Knismolagnia.
Or at least try to get people to think about it in a new way.
That's all I'm really trying to do.

I don't have anything against YOU as a person. And I think that you want to prompt discussion and debate about the topic to be fantastic.

But when your information is consistently built on junk science and observations of biased or too small populations and you don't have the foundations of psychology or sociology methodology for studying the area, then I speak up. Because I want folks to not only debate but debate with solid knowledge. Not just hand waving.

Dozens of people have told me the things I posed here, and I thought it could offer some insight.
Im Sorry if it wasn't good enough...

And there is insight to be found.But it needs to be found in a context that is functional in greater psychological terms and not just antidotal ones. Otherwise it's insight that is limited and not that helpful.

Myriads.

 

[Wolf]

Lol, this was cute

Thanks. Luckily, you weren't able to provide any solid justification for your dismissal, otherwise, I might have been hurt.

But .... Sadly Myriads is wrong, tickling paraphillia is not in the top 10 most common. Not even the top 50. It IS more uncommon than you think, that's why we see some people on here upset that they can't find a single person in their area that likes it too.

That's because they're limiting their search parameters to what keeps them comfortable, e.g, Searching only within the membership of this forum, in an attempt to remove any possibility of rejection. It's safer to say that the world is flat than it is to actually sail around it.

Humans evolved to AVOID tickling, that's why we naturally curl up and tend to pull away.

Myriads already addressed this one, as he addressed your laughably unscientific "sample group".

No need of such harsh words dude. You don't have a clue about how this kink works.

Neither do you, based on your "science". But I'm okay with not pretending to know how it works, to give myself some illusion of mastery over it. I've just learned to live with it and enjoy it. More the fool me, I suppose.

It's not really your "fault", there's just not too much information about it on here.

Your unsupported opinion is only information about your opinion. That's really not a lot to process.

Hhaha, But clearly your just not as knowledgable about this. I highly doubt you've actually documented ANY data on this yourself. That would explain your ignorance.

Documented any data? No. Lived a life not being so bound up over a simple kink, and pretty much gotten what I've wanted with far less time and effort than you've spent explaining why you (and your sample group) are not getting what you want? Yes. I could document my (and many others) successes in this realm, but what I would be proud of, you wouldn't be impressed with, and what you'd be impressed with, I wouldn't be proud of.

You can be as pissed-off as you want, but It means nothing.

Just like your pseudo-science. And I'm far from pissed off. I've outgrown caring about what anyone on an internet forum thinks of me.

If only you had a better idea of what Knismolagnia is, and how it affects people.

If only you hand the slightest idea if where the "problem" really lies.

Looks like everything I said here , just went right over your head!

Possibly. Once someone keeps spouting the same erroneous "facts" over and over and over, I tend to dismiss them.

Pity, really. Some people are able to grasp such abstract concepts.

Perhaps we're too busy living in the real world, and not just in the soft, cushy, ever-so-comfortable environments of our own heads, and the world we've created there.

Nobody's got a problem with you. I don't know you. I know your information is erroneous, and only serves to justify your dissatisfaction. There are people here who are looking for answers and support, and your walls of text are far less than helpful to anyone but you.

 

[celticsfan10]

Aeveirra that was a very informing thread. How did you do your research and where can I learn more about managing it in my social life?

 

[glazzhead]

I have to admit, I get very skeptical when I see the, "I've done my own, personal scientific research on X fetish" threads. It would be better to see a peer-reviewed paper or journal you have published in, for example. I haven't done a whole lot of reading about the current research on the development of sexual fetishes (or paraphilia, or kinks, or whatever you want to call them). There is always a debate about fetish vs. paraphilia, but honestly I don't think anything is really set in stone. For my whole life until now, a fetish was a sexual interest in a non-human object, like shoes or underwear. But now I think the DSM classifies sexual interests in human body parts as fetishes.

This might sound controversial, and I really have no evidence to support this, but I think most people "fetishize", or are partial to, something (or multiple things, of course). The whole idea that there is such a thing as sexual normalcy is counter to the very existence of human arousal. From an evolutionary stand point, feeling pleasure when having sex leads us to have more sex and so is beneficial. The problem is, early on in our development, our brains have no way to foresee that we should strictly be interested in sexual intercourse (penis in vajayjay). I think this is sort of where Myriads point comes in about people developing responses to certain stimuli which manifest later in life as sexual interests. In this sense, I like the explanation Myriads put forth, but I have to admit, I haven't done much reading on that topic and so I can't say I agree. But, I have always thought that any explanation of fetishes would have to be all encompassing. People look for specific causes of their specific interests, but it's much more likely a general phenomenon with certain interests being more prevalent than others. People like breasts, asses, legs, oral sex, etc.; all considered "normal", but none of which have any sexual utility. But they don't have to have sexual utility; the fact that you are aroused is sufficient enough to increase your chances of having sexual intercourse at some point.

My whole point is that I don't really know for sure if fetishes exist. Some things we like are merely turn-ons, while others are kinks, or paraphilia, or fetishes. But it all seems pretty much the same to me. There is no logical reason why we should feel pleasure from sex or sexual activities. Arousal, to me, is in and of itself a "fetishization" of the process of procreation.

EDIT: I should clarify that I am not saying there isn't a good reason for human arousal. I'm just saying that these conversations never start with underlying cause of arousal in people, but I think when you do start there, it sort of blows the whole "fetish" debate out of the water. We feel arousal because (hopefully) it will increase our chances of having sex while also making us more particular about whose genes we pass on to our offspring, both of which are beneficial to our species.

I realize I'm way off topic. If you need help telling your partner about your sexual interests, please have him/her call Myriads for an explanation.

Kidding! That was a joke.