ShiningIce
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Ok, I know techinically the Marines are part of the Navy but the question is do the Marines think of themselves as Navy personel???
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Marines are Navy???
- Thread starter ShiningIce
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Rusty Shackleford
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^^^^
I suppose those two powerful responses anwsers your question.
I suppose those two powerful responses anwsers your question.
ShiningIce
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Yes, I guess they do wow the Navy's not too popular in this forum is it 
D
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with appologise to my father
ice, is it suprising that the rust picking squids aren't popular?
most marines will tell you that the navy is just the marines taxi service. if the marines are part of the navy, then they are the best part!
steve
ice, is it suprising that the rust picking squids aren't popular?
most marines will tell you that the navy is just the marines taxi service. if the marines are part of the navy, then they are the best part!
steve
Flatfoot
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As the old phrase goes:
We are the Department of the Navy, the MEN's Department! 😀
In all seriousness, I don't rag on the Navy too much. My father was a sailor during WWII (Yes, I'm young and my father is really old! He was born in 1927!).
Just to turn the tables on myself, a sailor once told me what the acronym "Marine" stands for:
"My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment"
or
"Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential"
Oh, before I forget, my personal favorite for USMC:
"Uncle Sam's Misguided Children"
We are the Department of the Navy, the MEN's Department! 😀
In all seriousness, I don't rag on the Navy too much. My father was a sailor during WWII (Yes, I'm young and my father is really old! He was born in 1927!).
Just to turn the tables on myself, a sailor once told me what the acronym "Marine" stands for:
"My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment"
or
"Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential"
Oh, before I forget, my personal favorite for USMC:
"Uncle Sam's Misguided Children"
Oddly enough I always was under the impression that the Marine Corps and The US NAvy were two totally seperate armed forces in the US. Wheras in the UK the marines are just a regiment of infantry trained commandos (roughly the quivalent of the green berets) who are attatched to the navy.
Neutron
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When I Was A Squid..
I whipped quite a few Marines and I imagine I'll whip of a pasel of them yet.
Until WW1 Marines actually were only on naval Vessels to repel potential boarders while the sailors fought the ship. When a landing on a foreign shore was desired the Ships company had a division which did it. They did the actual shore fighting while Marines stayed aboard. As ships became more complex the Navy couldn't afford to let the sailors leave the ship in a war zone, thus Marines took over sailors traditional landing party/shore assault roles.
Oddly the English Forces were somewhat different. The gun turrests on an English Vessel were manned by Royal Marines, with a Royal Marine as a turret captain. All worked for a Royal Navy Gunnery officer.
Tron
I whipped quite a few Marines and I imagine I'll whip of a pasel of them yet.
Until WW1 Marines actually were only on naval Vessels to repel potential boarders while the sailors fought the ship. When a landing on a foreign shore was desired the Ships company had a division which did it. They did the actual shore fighting while Marines stayed aboard. As ships became more complex the Navy couldn't afford to let the sailors leave the ship in a war zone, thus Marines took over sailors traditional landing party/shore assault roles.
Oddly the English Forces were somewhat different. The gun turrests on an English Vessel were manned by Royal Marines, with a Royal Marine as a turret captain. All worked for a Royal Navy Gunnery officer.
Tron
D
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tron that's not quite how the history book have it
as far back as the war with the barbery pirates, the merines went ashore to fight. they wer etrandported by the navy of course.
yes marines were on navy ships to help fight in ship to ship warfare, that was the original purpose.
steve
as far back as the war with the barbery pirates, the merines went ashore to fight. they wer etrandported by the navy of course.
yes marines were on navy ships to help fight in ship to ship warfare, that was the original purpose.
steve
ShiningIce
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Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you did. I'm sure plenty of the Marines reading this would love to test ur claim. 🙄
Neutron
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LOL
6 feet 240 pound. I now kick box, I was an All American Linebacker in High School and College. I still keep in great shape. I lift everyday and run. Yes I whupped my fair share of Marines. You'll get a much tougher fight from a biker in a bar.
Also my number one passion happens to be Naval and Marine History. My references are History Of The United States Navy AND History Of The United States Marines. Both written by Captain Dudley KNox The ACKNOWLEDGED expert on the Histories and traiditions of both services AND up until the eraly 60s the OFFICIAL historian of both services. My reference to how Marines were used were comes from his chapters on the Barbary Wars. When a sailor went ashore he was known as a Marine or expiditionary. However the US Marines stayed aboard the ship. It wasn't until the late 1800s that Marines started performing their now traditional role. I also know this because my late father was a Marine and he told me the same thing.
Tron
6 feet 240 pound. I now kick box, I was an All American Linebacker in High School and College. I still keep in great shape. I lift everyday and run. Yes I whupped my fair share of Marines. You'll get a much tougher fight from a biker in a bar.
Also my number one passion happens to be Naval and Marine History. My references are History Of The United States Navy AND History Of The United States Marines. Both written by Captain Dudley KNox The ACKNOWLEDGED expert on the Histories and traiditions of both services AND up until the eraly 60s the OFFICIAL historian of both services. My reference to how Marines were used were comes from his chapters on the Barbary Wars. When a sailor went ashore he was known as a Marine or expiditionary. However the US Marines stayed aboard the ship. It wasn't until the late 1800s that Marines started performing their now traditional role. I also know this because my late father was a Marine and he told me the same thing.
Tron
Lifting every day can lead to overtraining, depending on your routine and how your body responds to weights. Then again, some say overtraining is overrated, so it would depend. Sorry, getting into bodybuilding stuff... One of my interests for a while now, along with power lifting. 😉 Problem is, I'm only 5'10", about 200 lbs. 🙁 Need to be stronger and bigger!!!! 😉
ShiningIce
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I know Marines who are bigger than that and could eat a kickboxer for lunch........
ShiningIce
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Nope no flame war...............................I NEVER start flame wars 
D
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tron, i don't mean to argue, but
the officer who led the american military forces ashore in tripoli to fight the barbery pirates was a marine! he was an lt., and led marines! there may have been some sailors along, but it was a marine mission.
steve
the officer who led the american military forces ashore in tripoli to fight the barbery pirates was a marine! he was an lt., and led marines! there may have been some sailors along, but it was a marine mission.
steve
Flatfoot
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According to my notes, the first amphibious landing made by Marines occurred in March 3, 1776, at New Providence Island in the Bahamas. I don't remember ever reading anything about Marine Sailors vs. U.S. Marines, but I'd have to research it. I'm not doubting you, but I wouldn't be surprised if they left that part out of the history classes.
Neutron
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LOL
My record against US Marines. 17 and 0. There ain't a Marine OR a man alive who can take me. Case closed lil fella.
Yes at times Marines did lead shore parties. I never once said Marines NEVER went ashor. But the Marine officer who went ashore did NOT lead a group of Marines. He led a group of sailors.
I do not learn my history from classes. That's inherently lazy and High school classes teach you nothing about history. Also lets face it. Most teachers are uh well not quality products. Read the papers written by the people who took part in events, find books by people who actually took part in events. Dudley Knox is excellent, Samuel Elliot Morrison even better (though atad bit racist at times).
Big Jim, th bit about Royal Marines is well documented, especially as the Royal Navy moved into the modern age. As weaponry got more complex the Royal Navy believed a Royal Marine were the experts in handling artillery because they lets face it, Cannon are inherent parts of good land combat. Also the Royal Navy did not want to have to establish even more schools. They were having enough problems establishing other training programs needed to fight a modern sea war (By modern I'll start with the period after the first Ironclad HMS Inflexible). So they turned to the Royal Marines. A great source for this is a book called the WAr At Sea which documents the problems all Navies had with basic human performance after weapons and battles became so good and happened so fast it challenged the fighting mans ability to respond. A good example is compare Jutland to Trafaglar. The Battle of Trafalgar took the better part of a day or so. HOWEVER the actual battle took over 3 days from the time the ships on both sides started maneuvering to fight to the time fighting actually commenced. During this whole time the fleets could actually see each other. Even as late as the middle to later 18th century things hadn't changed much. Ships moved at best at around 14 knots, ranges were short, ships were not all that maneuverable so basically all sea battles ran as follows, a day to close range, about a day to set up opening positions, and a day to fight.
Now take Jutland, the first really huge fleet contact since the days of sail. The fleets moved at average speeds of over 20 knots. Many times the average sailor couldn't see the enemy. Weapons were destructive at over 10 times the ranges that weapons USD to be considered effective. From the time the fleets at Jutland were aware of each other until the time shells were actually flying was a matter of minutes. Within 20 minutes two ships had already blown up. All this time both fleets were still using communications methods and fleet control philosophies developed in the 17 and 1800s. No wonder it was a mess. Just think, the opening part of Jutland happened a time frame of over 60000% faster than any previous Naval Battle. Yet training methods hadn't changed.
War At Sea is by the way an excellent reference about why Royal Marines manned the gun turrsts in British Naval Vessels. One of the heros of Jutland was in fact a Royal Marine who was the turret captain of Q Turret on the HMS Lion (Sir Admiral David Beatty Flagship) This Major kept the Brits from losing yet a Third Battlecruiser in the opening minutes of Jutland (and most likely saved the Brits in doing so, I have NO idea what they would have done had Beatty been lost in the opening minutes, his actions MAY have been somewhat questionable BUT he was one of two admirals in the Royal Navy at the time who had initiative and thrived despite his training). The Lion took a hit in her Q Magazine which started on fire. The turret captain took it upon himself (without waiting for the bridge to authorize it) to have the magazine sealed off then flooded. He died in the process but the ship survived.
By the way. You CAN lift everyday provided you do flexibility exercises and change your routine everyday. Which I do. Or did the reference to kickboxing get by ya? Can't kick box unless you're flexible. 🙂
Tron
My record against US Marines. 17 and 0. There ain't a Marine OR a man alive who can take me. Case closed lil fella.
Yes at times Marines did lead shore parties. I never once said Marines NEVER went ashor. But the Marine officer who went ashore did NOT lead a group of Marines. He led a group of sailors.
I do not learn my history from classes. That's inherently lazy and High school classes teach you nothing about history. Also lets face it. Most teachers are uh well not quality products. Read the papers written by the people who took part in events, find books by people who actually took part in events. Dudley Knox is excellent, Samuel Elliot Morrison even better (though atad bit racist at times).
Big Jim, th bit about Royal Marines is well documented, especially as the Royal Navy moved into the modern age. As weaponry got more complex the Royal Navy believed a Royal Marine were the experts in handling artillery because they lets face it, Cannon are inherent parts of good land combat. Also the Royal Navy did not want to have to establish even more schools. They were having enough problems establishing other training programs needed to fight a modern sea war (By modern I'll start with the period after the first Ironclad HMS Inflexible). So they turned to the Royal Marines. A great source for this is a book called the WAr At Sea which documents the problems all Navies had with basic human performance after weapons and battles became so good and happened so fast it challenged the fighting mans ability to respond. A good example is compare Jutland to Trafaglar. The Battle of Trafalgar took the better part of a day or so. HOWEVER the actual battle took over 3 days from the time the ships on both sides started maneuvering to fight to the time fighting actually commenced. During this whole time the fleets could actually see each other. Even as late as the middle to later 18th century things hadn't changed much. Ships moved at best at around 14 knots, ranges were short, ships were not all that maneuverable so basically all sea battles ran as follows, a day to close range, about a day to set up opening positions, and a day to fight.
Now take Jutland, the first really huge fleet contact since the days of sail. The fleets moved at average speeds of over 20 knots. Many times the average sailor couldn't see the enemy. Weapons were destructive at over 10 times the ranges that weapons USD to be considered effective. From the time the fleets at Jutland were aware of each other until the time shells were actually flying was a matter of minutes. Within 20 minutes two ships had already blown up. All this time both fleets were still using communications methods and fleet control philosophies developed in the 17 and 1800s. No wonder it was a mess. Just think, the opening part of Jutland happened a time frame of over 60000% faster than any previous Naval Battle. Yet training methods hadn't changed.
War At Sea is by the way an excellent reference about why Royal Marines manned the gun turrsts in British Naval Vessels. One of the heros of Jutland was in fact a Royal Marine who was the turret captain of Q Turret on the HMS Lion (Sir Admiral David Beatty Flagship) This Major kept the Brits from losing yet a Third Battlecruiser in the opening minutes of Jutland (and most likely saved the Brits in doing so, I have NO idea what they would have done had Beatty been lost in the opening minutes, his actions MAY have been somewhat questionable BUT he was one of two admirals in the Royal Navy at the time who had initiative and thrived despite his training). The Lion took a hit in her Q Magazine which started on fire. The turret captain took it upon himself (without waiting for the bridge to authorize it) to have the magazine sealed off then flooded. He died in the process but the ship survived.
By the way. You CAN lift everyday provided you do flexibility exercises and change your routine everyday. Which I do. Or did the reference to kickboxing get by ya? Can't kick box unless you're flexible. 🙂
Tron
D
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tron are you actually looking for a fight?
the way you're bragging, and posturing is remakable! i haven't seen this type of testosterone bravado since the last bar fight i saw, some 5 years ago. there are many people out there who'll beat the snot out of you, if you push them enough. but the question begs to be asked; why?
as to british navy gunnery. i have a 2nd cousin in canada who was in the britsh navy during ww2, and he was a gunner, and in the navy, not the marines. so i do believe your pendantic statements are inacurate.
steve
the way you're bragging, and posturing is remakable! i haven't seen this type of testosterone bravado since the last bar fight i saw, some 5 years ago. there are many people out there who'll beat the snot out of you, if you push them enough. but the question begs to be asked; why?
as to british navy gunnery. i have a 2nd cousin in canada who was in the britsh navy during ww2, and he was a gunner, and in the navy, not the marines. so i do believe your pendantic statements are inacurate.
steve
Neutron
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Uh Look At My..
Original Statement. I only went up to WW1. Read it closely my friend. After WW1 (particularly after Jutland) the Brits did some soul searching. They realized they should have pulverized the Germans at Jutland when in fact they didn't. They did a LOT of good analysis and changed a lot of stuff around, including the training. This had nothing to do with Royal Marine being the fault in any of this, they only operated the turrets. not the ship, and Jutland was at heart a ship control issue. In the end they did decide to turn all duties of turrets back over to the Royal Navy. This all occurred in the late 19 teens to early 1920s although there were still a few Royal Marines in turrets as late as early WW2.
I'm not looking for a fight. But my experience is if someone comes to Tron wanting a go, Tron will be the one left standing.
Can't deny history my friend 🙂
Tron
Original Statement. I only went up to WW1. Read it closely my friend. After WW1 (particularly after Jutland) the Brits did some soul searching. They realized they should have pulverized the Germans at Jutland when in fact they didn't. They did a LOT of good analysis and changed a lot of stuff around, including the training. This had nothing to do with Royal Marine being the fault in any of this, they only operated the turrets. not the ship, and Jutland was at heart a ship control issue. In the end they did decide to turn all duties of turrets back over to the Royal Navy. This all occurred in the late 19 teens to early 1920s although there were still a few Royal Marines in turrets as late as early WW2.
I'm not looking for a fight. But my experience is if someone comes to Tron wanting a go, Tron will be the one left standing.
Can't deny history my friend 🙂
Tron
