Movie Review: "Revenge of the Sith"

[Celtic_Emperor]

Then Lucas has a strange understanding of the word balance.

I think he means 'balance' to be more universal than the contexts we would normally take it in.

Qui-Gon Jinn said that Anakin would BRING balance. No one ever said he WAS the balance. Luke and Leia are the balance for the next generation as will their children be.

See, in a wider, philosophical perspective it doesn't matter how many Sith there are, whether they outnumber the Jedi or not, or its the other way around. Thats just cause and effect.

Whats important is the energy, the Force itself. Good actions and positive thinking create postitive energy and therefore positive stations of life and existance (the Jedi way). Evil actions and negative thinking (the Sith way) create negative energy (ie- the dark side) and lead to conflict and death.

The Jedi and Sith are just the tools to which this energy comes about, and this energy remains or is further manipulated with or without them.

Even after the Sith are gone theres still war in the galaxy. Thats negative energy, negative Force being created by non-force users.

The New Jedi Order, the very existance of it brings new positive energy to the Force and the galaxy around them because they are contributing to the life-giving nature of the Force.

When Palpatine returns this is disrupted for a time, not just because he himself still exists, but because he brings war again, and all of that creates more negative energy and fills the galaxy with the dark side.

He is defeated and eventually theres balance again for obvious reasons beyond his death.

The existance of the Jedi, Force-practioners, Force-sensitives, and just good people wanting to make the galaxy a better place all add to the collective nature of the living Force.

The Dark Side is not just present in the Sith or represented by them. The Dark Side is war, the Dark Side is sickness, the Dark Side is the ills of society.

The presense of the Jedi without the Sith brings balance and ensures it cosmically until something disrupts it, like the invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong. Though with them, they do not exist in the Force, so their mere presense did not contribute to an imbalance, only the purging they brought.

Because the Force is a naturally sustaining and life giving energy, it will be present whether there are Jedi or not. But its only ever balanced when the galaxy as a whole is doing good for itself and the Jedi are there to ensure that peace and life is respected. The Sith way is a perversion of the natural Force and therefore is not necessary for the Force to be in balance.

In specific places where the Force is out of balance, the Force cannot be used or accessed as easily or effectively.

This would go a long way in explaining part of why the Jedi could not sense the presense of the Sith Lord among them even though they shared a planet and were within miles of eachother. Aside from dark side trickery, illusion and stealth, Darth Sidious was aided by the very fact that the dark side was everywhere on that planet. It was in the Senate and Republic far before he came along, its in the seedy underworld of Coruscant, and its in the destruction of natural resources, trees, life, etc, and having covered the surface of the planet with cold, lifeless metal and technology. The Force is not strong where it is not accepted or is denyed a place to grow and prosper.

This is why the Old Jedi Order was not able to do alot of things anymore. This is why their ability to use the Force had dimmimished, and this is why they could not see and feel Palpatine for what he truely was. They remained on this planet, if only because it was the capital of the Republic and it was the home of the Galactic Senate. They needed to be here. And so that made things alot harder for them and easier for the Sith.

Thats my take on it anyway. 🙂

 

[Dave2112]

CE's pretty much on as to the Balance issue. The New Jedi Order really redefined the Nature of the Force. There were philosophical discussions as to the existence of the Dark Side, if any at all. The Force is One, but it is what sentients bring to it that divides Dark from Light. Intent. Deliberation.

Anyhoo...Anakin is the Chosen One even within the strict context of the films alone. Luke fights for the Light Side and to bring his father back from darkness, but it is Anakin/Vader who must ultimately make the conscious decision to do the right thing. As Yoda said, the Prophecy could have been misread. It never said he'd instantly transform the Force itself into a balanced entity overnight. In order to fully appreciate Heaven, you must descend into Hell.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Lastly, ok Vader's near-death scene needed to be spectacular and the injuries obviously horribly disfiguring for dramatic effect. However, people were dying left and right from much less severe injuries onscreen, but he loses BOTH legs and then BURSTS into flames and lives? The legs I could see, as sabers cauterize wounds, but the flames were overdramatic.

Humph!

True, but remember his state of being and mind at this point. He has such a hatred in him in this very moment that by sheer will power and evil he is able to keep his body from collapsing on itself and he is able to cheat what should have been instant death by using the hateful, vengeful energies of the dark side. You'll notice when he says to Obi-Wan "I hate you!" his eyes again turn into the burning Sith eyes. This is an indication of his consumption and of him using all that he has to stay alive.

It was sheer will power and hate that kept him alive long enough for Palpatine to rescue him.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

CE's pretty much on as to the Balance issue. The New Jedi Order really redefined the Nature of the Force. There were philosophical discussions as to the existence of the Dark Side, if any at all. The Force is One, but it is what sentients bring to it that divides Dark from Light. Intent. Deliberation.

Anyhoo...Anakin is the Chosen One even within the strict context of the films alone. Luke fights for the Light Side and to bring his father back from darkness, but it is Anakin/Vader who must ultimately make the conscious decision to do the right thing. As Yoda said, the Prophecy could have been misread. It never said he'd instantly transform the Force itself into a balanced entity overnight. In order to fully appreciate Heaven, you must descend into Hell.

Yay, what prize did I win? 😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I agree, they should have focused more on his face and eyes. Its not that the effects were a bad touch, they just didn't include every nuance they could have to make the scene better. I agree with you there.

I also agree with the killing of Dooku being too subtle and short. Granted, Anakin is now more powerful than Dooku, and it's probably what Dooku said to Anakin that gave Anakin the fury he needed to finish him off by chopping off his hands, but the whole scene seemed rushed. Though this too could be explained away by time constraints.

Perhaps the scene was longer than it was shown to us. If so, it will definitely be on the dvd when it comes out. Or at least it should be.

And for that matter, maybe alot of the quick scenes are longer than they were shown and will also be bonus material on the dvd, or there might be an extended version or something.

 

[jim66e]

This is second hand information, but apperently, Greivous has lungs that were badly damaged at the end of the Clone Wars Cartoon series by Mace Windu. Thats why he coughts, he does, or is suposed to have lungs.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

There was in the moments after. Anakin felt bad about it and Palpatine reassured him it was perfectly natural to feel that way and justified what Anakin had done by bringing up how Dooku had wronged him before.

Because this was a rescue mission there was no time to stand there and talk before or after Dooku's murder. Palpatine gave him an easy answer that Anakin didn't argue with because it played on his human nature to want revenge, and its clear that Palpatine has brainwashed Anakin enough all these years to not care about the afterthought of his actions or take responsibility for them. To just do what he feels like in the moment.

 

[ShadowFyre]

This is second hand information, but apperently, Greivous has lungs that were badly damaged at the end of the Clone Wars Cartoon series by Mace Windu. Thats why he coughts, he does, or is suposed to have lungs.

Jim,

That is pretty much dead on what happened. In episode 25 I think of the Clone Wars cartoon, Mace used the Force to crush Grievous' lungs, which would explain the cough. Also, that is why Lucas also said that the Clone Wars cartoon would explain a lot of what happened between episodes II and III.

 

[footamateur]

Ok, many people saw it, many people was happy to see this movie...forget that is better than the first trilogy, and forget that is so good as many peoplles said!

Is not a bad movie, you can see by yourself that is the best of the 3 new episodes, great action and good FX, but i prefer to analyze th movie under various aspects 🙂

1) I liked the effects, the CG and all the other ideas; someone said that they was very unbelievable and didn't gave the appeal of the puppets or of the animaton, for me they was in the right place and in the right quantity

2) The plot...oh my god 🙁 the ideas are great...but the movie suffer fo a tremedous "swing effect": some parts let you think that the movie is going in a good direction, and that the writers finally was paid enough to write something decent, then some things happen and you fell in the "epiode 1 effect" (boring dialogues while you think that something should be revealed and obvious actions like a b-movie, where the characters seems that came from the "simpson" serie); in facts many people can like those ideas but for me are only a way to put something in a movie that you know that is good but that has nothing to say when you analyze the single scenes...some kind of "vin diesel movies" action mixed with star wars.

3)Dialogues: who wrote them? maybe the samepeople that wrote the "austin powers" dialogues? 🙂 in general they are ugly and obvious (except some great dialogues descrbed after), expecially yoda was a delusion...seems like the "fortune teller" machines inside the circus..this character is a "talker" before than a "fighter", maybe the dialogues should be more "wise" for this kind of character.

4) Actors: I liked Ewan Mcgregor, but is too far from theidea of the "young kenobi" that maybe all had before the new trilogy ( maybe if Liam neson was used as kenobi the character should be more interesting and more close to the original); it is perfect in some parts, but in others it lacks of "wisdom feeling", he still look young even with the beard, maybe it was not the best choice for the last movie of this trilogy.

LEt's leave the comment of Anakin, i hate the actor and i hate how they did it on screen....before seem sage and wise, then instantly he turn in a complete idiot that can be manipulated by anyone...like someone said is a big teen with existencial problems; and his turn in the dark side was very stupid and obvious ("what have i done" ---->5 seconds---->"yes master"); maybe more time passed but you can't change little by little? in all the transformations that happen in the cinema this was the worst one.

Samuel Jakson was aboslutely unsuseful (and since when he is stronger than yoda???), dialugues reduced to 4 sentence in 2 movies and the face was the same from the beginning to the end...a piece of ice

We know that Natalie portman is not a great actress, but this movie was maybe her best one, seems that she is better when she must be "desperate and sad"

A particular mention is for the Senator Palpatine(i don't know the name of the actor); in the first 2 movies he was absolutely obvious, but in this one he was amazing! like the first emperor in ROTJ he pass from the evil behavior to a "helpless" behavior...i was wondering to see how this character can be, if played by Jim Carrey 🙂 ; and his tone of voice and his portament are really good for his character; one of th positive notes inside this movie.

In general it wasn't a bad movie, but as the previous episodes it suffer of the heavy legacy of the previous trilogy, so many people are more critics and expect more only because is a "star wars" movie....if they called this trilogy "the space adventures of the knights of the republic" i'm sure that everyone had diffrent comments for the movies.

The duels are great, the action scenes are good, but even with those seems that you have still saw them (the attack to the death star is something that is too recurring in the "post star wars"...look at "indipendence day, where the people was about to attack imponent spaceships, waiting that the 2 heroes disactivate the shield protection and remember the scene when Ian solo was disactivating the shield on Endor while the main rebel army was about to attack te death star....too similar 😀), you can change the context or the planet, but a lightsaber duel is the same everytime 😀 a good innovation was the one with darth maul in the first and the one with 2 lightsabers in the second...so in the third i was expecting maybe more😀

I'm a great fan of the universe of star wars and also of the universe of Lord of the rings, and after that i saw both i must admit that the sign that LOTR left in the people that watch it is not present in the corrisective fans of SW, so this mean that maybe Lucas had good ideas, but was unable to transfer in this new trilogy the original spirit of the first trilogy: the old one is more incentrated on "how the characters feel and how they can do something to change theyr situation" , more introspective; the new trilogy is "how we can spend money to make another action movie with special effect and a mediocre story"; maybe this can be good for the verage public, but not for the star wars fan.

I hope that if Lucas will make other spin off or things related to the SW universe he will hire th greatest writers around the market (if someoneever read one of the SW books for sure he have an idea about how a story should be written), becaus ethe people deserve more than special effect and a well known brand to go to the cinema na dwatch 2 hours of movie

SPOILER: ATTENTION PLEASE























Some little consideration to the people that saw the movie:

- maybe the prophecy was wrong (as mace windu said) , so anakin was created (as palpatine said in the teather while he was talking about the old legend of the most powerful sith lord) to be a sith lord? 🙂 sorry but for me was enough that in the firs movie the mother looks like the holy "mother Mary" because he has no father and he was conceived by the midichlorian? And palaptine was the apprentice that kill his master while he was sleeping?

- padme: with 2 twins she wear sexy outfits, take a spacship and go on a planet make of lava.....is this normal or the NAboo are different from the earthlings? and the droid that said that she has nothinig wrong but seems that she lost the willing to live.....is she alike the old shaman that decide when to die??? cmon....

- "Obi wan: a friend is gone but another one is returned...i will teach you how to talk with him"........THE OTHERS???? this is the explanation for the big mistake that they did in the first movie, when they burned Qui-gon? he didn't disappear when he died, so they burned him (like they did with anakin in ROTJ, but in that case was acceptable because he was a dark jedi); and another strange thing is that Obi Wan in the old trilogy said tha tyouda was the master that teched to him...but when yoda teached Obi Wan? in the movies noone saw this! or maybe he teached how to talk with death peoples ? 😀

Anakin: found by the emperor and "rebuild", then the scene when he ask for padme and the emperor said that eh killed her was very sad, but the intepretation was ugly! i was expecting that after the operation he did something....that he changed to the dark side, but he simply screamed out his rage...and after 5 nminutes allwas ok....while he look at the construction of the death star. where is the drama of the person that joined to the dark side to save her love? only in one scream?

The duel of the emperor with mace windu: great, but he was so strong to kinll the emperor if anakin didn;t stopped him....so why yoda tht was more strong than Mace Windu has so many problems to kill him? maybe because there was noone that can save the emperor, so he can fight with his super powers without problems? 😀😀😀 Yoda was simply fantastic....like for gollum another digital actor is better than a human one 😀

 

[desdemona]

Originally posted by tommytikl:
Apparently, George had Padme start to create the "rebellion" and what not but didn't have time..that is why it seems that Padme is there simply to let you know that 6 months have passed from the beginning of the movie till the end...

In the book, Padme and Bail Organa form part of a coalition of senators known as the 2000. They sign a document asking the emperor/chancellor to step down his emergency powers provided by the war. This is another way that Palpatine draws Anakin into believing in the dark side - by promising to save Padme from those other traitors who signed the document.

In the book, they also do show a greater moral dilemma (and a better fight scene IMO) before Anakin kills Dooku. Dooku's commentary/analysis of the Jedi's fighting styles is amusing at least. And btw, in the book, there is like one paragraph mentioning the Wookies and the fact that Yoda went there to help them - no names given. Wonder why George had to "ad lib" there?? 😛 Chewbaca and Yoda - think he had to give two of the greatest aliens in the series a little screen time together??

 

[ShadowFyre]

***warning*** May Contain Spoilers

A few small points:

The prophecy wasn't wrong, just misread or misninterpreted. Anakin is the Chosen One that the prophecy speaks of. He does in fact destroy the Sith, he just didn't do it in the way that the Jedi expected him to do it. The Jedi expected him to immediately kill off the Sith, but it took him until the end of Return of the Jedi to wipe the Sith out. He fell first and then came back. Until Anakin, no one else had ever done this. Anakin did bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith, just not before becoming one. He wasn't born to be a Sith per se, since it was just a part of his life, and not the end of it. Anakin died as a Jedi, not a Sith.

Also, how was it a big mistake in burning Qui-Gon? A funeral pyre may very well have been a proper way to have a Jedi funeral. I would say it is proper, since Anakin (not Vader) also had one. Anakin was a Jedi, not a "Dark Jedi." According to the movies, there is no such thing as a "Dark Jedi." That term came only from the Expanded Universe, which is not necessarily approved by Lucas. In the movies, there are only Jedi and Sith, and Anakin was a Jedi when he destroyed Palpatine. Also, in the novel of the book (which was explicity approved by Lucas), there is a much greater description of the Qui-Gon/Yoda scene in which he learns the way to maintain identity after death.

As for Padme, I have heard of couples that loved each other so much that when one dies, the other dies soon after, even though nothing is physically wrong. The person simply loses the will to live, or "dies of a broken heart."

Now onto Vader in the suit. I didn't view it as him feeling that everything was ok in any way. Anakin/Vader was a slave for his whole life. He was a slave on Tatooine, a slave to the Jedi order, and a slave to Palpatine. I took it as he realized that he had lost Padme due to his own actions, and he became incredibly despondent, having nothing else to live for except to serve the Emperor. That doesn't mean he thinks everything is ok, just that is all he has anymore after her loss.

Mace wasn't stronger than Yoda by any means. Palpatine wasn't fighting to his fullest potential against Mace. He was planning on Anakin coming in to help him, since he had Anakin believing that only HE could keep Padme from dying. He needed Anakin to see the Jedi as the agressors against him. He needed to appear weak so Anakin would look upon him as a victim. Palpatine fought as much as he could against Yoda, not against Mace Windu. You could see a touch of fear in his eyes when Mace had him down. Palpatine thought he had miscalculated until Anakin came in, so his plan worked out.

 

[footamateur]

The prophecy wasn't wrong, just misread or misninterpreted. Anakin is the Chosen One that the prophecy speaks of. He does in fact destroy the Sith, he just didn't do it in the way that the Jedi expected him to do it. The Jedi expected him to immediately kill off the Sith, but it took him until the end of Return of the Jedi to wipe the Sith out. He fell first and then came back. Until Anakin, no one else had ever done this. Anakin did bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith, just not before becoming one. He wasn't born to be a Sith per se, since it was just a part of his life, and not the end of it. Anakin died as a Jedi, not a Sith.

Good consideration...i didn't thinked about it; if you see the thing in the total of the saga he was the choosen one and he destroyed the sith.

Also, how was it a big mistake in burning Qui-Gon? A funeral pyre may very well have been a proper way to have a Jedi funeral. I would say it is proper, since Anakin (not Vader) also had one. Anakin was a Jedi, not a "Dark Jedi." According to the movies, there is no such thing as a "Dark Jedi." That term came only from the Expanded Universe, which is not necessarily approved by Lucas. In the movies, there are only Jedi and Sith, and Anakin was a Jedi when he destroyed Palpatine. Also, in the novel of the book (which was explicity approved by Lucas), there is a much greater description of the Qui-Gon/Yoda scene in which he learns the way to maintain identity after death.

Ehem...according to the rules the jedi "disappear phisically" to return after as a pure soul to mantain themselves as pure conscience, except if they die violently, in this case the concentration needed to operate the "transmiutation" is impossible...and Qui-Gon died almost instatly, killed by darth maul.
Yoda died by himself and disappear, obiWan decided to die and disappear, and Anakin/vader because he died as a jedi, but his body was burned like QuiGon; but you can consider Ani/Vader as an exception, so i really did't accept the pyre for QuiGon.

Dark jedi = jedi that turn to the dark side of the force
Sith = person that is trained to the dark side of the force

Is not mentioned anywhere but this difference exit! in fact a jedi that became "evil" is different from a sith; that's why i called it "dark jedi"; because you can't call Vader a sith (somewhere in the books you should find the definition of sith, i don't remember where); i wasn't talking about anything that is not approved from lucas, or we can pass days discussing about the details 🙂

As for Padme, I have heard of couples that loved each other so much that when one dies, the other dies soon after, even though nothing is physically wrong. The person simply loses the will to live, or "dies of a broken heart."

Romeo and Juliet? Padme didn't know that anakin was "dead" because the last image that she had was when he used his powers to kill her on the planet, so she decided to die because he was bcomea bad guy, or because he said that he want to be the emperor killing palpatine (and she said that she don't recognize him...he is another person in facts, seduced and consumed by the dark side of the force), and other things like that?
I think that her death was for 2 purposes : to add teh sad final to the love story and to hide the fact that the twins was alive (they did the funeral showing that she was still pregnant, in this way the emperor and Vader can think that the baby (Vader didn't know that they was twins) is dead.

Now onto Vader in the suit. I didn't view it as him feeling that everything was ok in any way. Anakin/Vader was a slave for his whole life. He was a slave on Tatooine, a slave to the Jedi order, and a slave to Palpatine. I took it as he realized that he had lost Padme due to his own actions, and he became incredibly despondent, having nothing else to live for except to serve the Emperor. That doesn't mean he thinks everything is ok, just that is all he has anymore after her loss.

Sorry but saying that he was a slave is a great error: a slave never ask to be better than what he is, and he was thinking to became powerful since episode one (to help people and free his moher), then he was a padawan and was absolutely out of control, telling to everyone that OBiWan was gealous and that he didn't want to make him more powerful (he said it 2 times in episode 2: when he was in teh room with padme and when she was on tatoine after his mother's death); then in the end when tehy made him a coucil member without giving the appellative he was angry, becaus ehe want to be better than what he was...aand this is not exactly a slave behavior.
If you mean that he was the emperor's slave you are right.
In fact the words of the emperor ("seems that your rage killed her") gave to him the confirmatiuon that now he has lost everything: almost all his body, his friend and master, his love and his children; but as i said i was expecting a different reaction....maybe the movie was better if the "post operation" part was longer, but of course this is my opinion.

Mace wasn't stronger than Yoda by any means. Palpatine wasn't fighting to his fullest potential against Mace. He was planning on Anakin coming in to help him, since he had Anakin believing that only HE could keep Padme from dying. He needed Anakin to see the Jedi as the agressors against him. He needed to appear weak so Anakin would look upon him as a victim. Palpatine fought as much as he could against Yoda, not against Mace Windu. You could see a touch of fear in his eyes when Mace had him down. Palpatine thought he had miscalculated until Anakin came in, so his plan worked out.

He was planning but he didn't know that he will do it, and if you see the scene, Anakin came in the exact moment when Mace was about to kill Palpatine (he was on the floor with the lightsaber close to his troath); the amazing part was his "powerless and hopeless" behavior to receive the help from Anakin; so this mean that Mace was able to kill him if anakin wasn't there... a thing that yoda didnn't, even if the fight was marvellous the feeling was that the emperor was never under serious threat.
So you suppose that he miscalculated the things with Mace? this is another big mess caused by the incapacity of the Lucas' writers to make a good scene inside a great movie, as i said before 🙂

 

[ShadowFyre]

Good consideration...i didn't thinked about it; if you see the thing in the total of the saga he was the choosen one and he destroyed the sith.

Thank you. I view the whole six movies, and not just one. Admittedly, that does leave some plot holes, however.

Ehem...according to the rules the jedi "disappear phisically" to return after as a pure soul to mantain themselves as pure conscience, except if they die violently, in this case the concentration needed to operate the "transmiutation" is impossible...and Qui-Gon died almost instatly, killed by darth maul.
Yoda died by himself and disappear, obiWan decided to die and disappear, and Anakin/vader because he died as a jedi, but his body was burned like QuiGon; but you can consider Ani/Vader as an exception, so i really did't accept the pyre for QuiGon.

Exactly what rules are that? Before Qui-Gon did it, there were NO Jedi that were able to maintain their identity after death. They all just became One with the Force. Qui-Gon was the first and only Jedi up to that point that was able to accomplish this. I feel that a large portion of this was because of the way that he viewed the Force (the "Living Force"), which was in direct opposition to the way the other Jedi did. I think that personally his view of the "Living Force" is what allowed him to maintain his identity. As you recall, only the Jedi that died in the OT were able to do this as well, since they accepted his view as accurate. Both Obi-Wan and Yoda modified their views to accept Qui-Gon's viewpoint, and that is what allowed them to maintain their identity. While this doesn't explain Anakin, but I suppose that since he is the Chosen One, his has the ability naturally to do it.

Dark jedi = jedi that turn to the dark side of the force
Sith = person that is trained to the dark side of the force

Is not mentioned anywhere but this difference exit! in fact a jedi that became "evil" is different from a sith; that's why i called it "dark jedi"; because you can't call Vader a sith (somewhere in the books you should find the definition of sith, i don't remember where); i wasn't talking about anything that is not approved from lucas, or we can pass days discussing about the details 🙂

You absolutely CAN call Vader a Sith just as you can call Count Dooku a Sith. Both Vader and Dooku were members of the Jedi Order who left and turned to the Dark Side of the Force, becoming Sith Lords. If a Jedi turns to the Dark Side, he becomes a Sith. The word Darth means DARk lord of the siTH, it is just shortened to DARTH. Darth is simply a title to make things easier, so instead of Dark Lord of the Sith Sidious, it is Darth Sidious, and the same goes for Maul, Vader, Dooku, or any other Sith.

Romeo and Juliet? Padme didn't know that anakin was "dead" because the last image that she had was when he used his powers to kill her on the planet, so she decided to die because he was bcomea bad guy, or because he said that he want to be the emperor killing palpatine (and she said that she don't recognize him...he is another person in facts, seduced and consumed by the dark side of the force), and other things like that?
I think that her death was for 2 purposes : to add teh sad final to the love story and to hide the fact that the twins was alive (they did the funeral showing that she was still pregnant, in this way the emperor and Vader can think that the baby (Vader didn't know that they was twins) is dead.

While Padme didn't "know" that Anakin was dead, she "felt" it. From a certain point of view, Anakin did die when he became Vader. I agree that her death was included to make the movie a bit sadder and that they showed Padme as pregnant to keep the birth of the twins a secret from anyone who may have reported to Vader/Palpatine that she was dead and in what condition.

Sorry but saying that he was a slave is a great error: a slave never ask to be better than what he is, and he was thinking to became powerful since episode one (to help people and free his moher), then he was a padawan and was absolutely out of control, telling to everyone that OBiWan was gealous and that he didn't want to make him more powerful (he said it 2 times in episode 2: when he was in teh room with padme and when she was on tatoine after his mother's death); then in the end when tehy made him a coucil member without giving the appellative he was angry, becaus ehe want to be better than what he was...aand this is not exactly a slave behavior.
If you mean that he was the emperor's slave you are right.
In fact the words of the emperor ("seems that your rage killed her") gave to him the confirmatiuon that now he has lost everything: almost all his body, his friend and master, his love and his children; but as i said i was expecting a different reaction....maybe the movie was better if the "post operation" part was longer, but of course this is my opinion.

Anakin was in fact a slave to Watto when he wanted to be free and free all of the slaves, himself included. He and Shmi were both slaves of Watto in The Phantom Menace. Qui-Gon manipulates the chance cube so he can free Anakin from slavery when he wins the pod race.
A great many slaves want more than they have. I would guess that it is a natural feeling.
After being freed from Watto, Anakin became a "slave" to the Jedi Council and their rules and regulations. It was his unhappiness with or inability to accept those rules that caused all of his anger (certain point of view time again). He was able to be manipulated by Palpatine because he coudn't accept the rules of the Council.

He was planning but he didn't know that he will do it, and if you see the scene, Anakin came in the exact moment when Mace was about to kill Palpatine (he was on the floor with the lightsaber close to his troath); the amazing part was his "powerless and hopeless" behavior to receive the help from Anakin; so this mean that Mace was able to kill him if anakin wasn't there... a thing that yoda didnn't, even if the fight was marvellous the feeling was that the emperor was never under serious threat.
So you suppose that he miscalculated the things with Mace? this is another big mess caused by the incapacity of the Lucas' writers to make a good scene inside a great movie, as i said before 🙂

I pretty much agree with that. Palpatine didn't fight to his best abilty because he was planning on Anakin coming in, but that nearly cost him because Anakin almost came in too late to save him. The thing that Palaptine miscalculated was the timing, since he could not be sure if or when exactly Anakin would come in. He was pretty sure Anakin would come in, because he had Anakin believing that he could save Padme from dying, and only he had that knowledge. What Palpatine didn't do was fight to his ability. He took it easy on Mace. The scene with Yoda verfies that. Yoda is accepted to be stronger than Mace, and couldn't defeat the Emperor, so why would Mace be able to unless Palpatine was taking it easy?

 

[jim66e]

One of my dissapointments with the movie was the portrayal of Kysick (sp). It think it was poorly done and was only included so people could see lots of computer generated wookiees fighting.

 

[BigJim]

I have a bad feeling about this...

Well, I've seen it and I swung both ways during the film. Firstly though, some clarification of the "becoming one with the Force" concept...

As Yoda says, most people who die pass entirely beyond our physical universe into "the netherworld of the Force". Call it Hades, the West, Heaven, the Undying Lands, whatever. The trick was to enable yourself with the ability to remain in touch with the physical world as well. Before AOTC the skipchat was that someone who was so attuned to be able to do this would physically vapourise on physical death, a la Obi-Wan and Yoda. This is kinda kicked into touch by Qui-Gon Jinn who received a physical funeral but was still somehow able to remain in touch. We should have seen his spectral form during AOTC but Liam Neeson was nearly crippled in a motorcycle accident and was unable to appear. George Lucas made some judicious use of cut and pasted speech during the slaughter of the sand people by Anakin to make it appear as if Yoda could hear Qui-Gon's voice.

Despite what the EU and NJO novels erroneously say, Anakin did not physically evaporate on his death in the manner Yoda and Obi-Wan did. We never see that happen and not even the ROTJ novelisation infers it. Given the manner in which he appears at the Endor victory celebrations I'd put his ability to materialise in the physical universe down to a mixture of Obi-Wan and Yoda acting as "enablers" to help him and his "Chosen One" status.

I started of thinking the film was going to be bad. The first twenty or so minutes didn't give me much confidence and I was beginning to dread a similar pants-fest to AOTC. I was however pleasantly surprised. I would place this as the third best film behind the un-toppable ESB and the nearly as good ANH (ROTJ is still my favourite, but I don't rate it as as big an achievement artisically as the other three - fucking ewoks...). The last three quarters of an hour is probably the best sequence in Star Wars history, with two exceptions.

The scene where Anakin turns to the dark side and is installed as Darth Vader is lamer than a one-legged hunting tortoise!!! 😡

I have never seen a decision taken by a character be based on something so flimsy and ephemeral. Anakin goes from telling Mace Windu that Palpatine is evil and needs to be placed on trial to being a devoted disciple of the dark side within the space of ten smegging seconds!

The second lame moment is Padme's death. Died of dispair and a broken heart? C'mon Georgie-porgie, you could have thought of something better than that! Palpatine orchestrating her death and framing the JEdi Order would have been a good twist, but just giving up? When she had two kids to care for? Luh-luh-luh-luh-luh-LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
However having said that, the cause of her death does raise a poignant point. One thing I will never accuse George Lucas of is being dumb. This film makes a LOT of very good moral points, drawing paralells with some instances from the Harry Potter novels by Jo Rowling.

Artisically speaking the last third or so of the movie was what we've all been waiting for: darker than the inside of a Turkish wrestler's jock-strap, more violent than a Millwall fan in a pub full of Man Utd supporters and more overwhelmingly evil than Jackie Stallone's plastic surgeon. This was the bollocks! After Anakin's dreadful mutilation in the lava we see him partially reconstructed and encased in the suit... there he lies as the black mask descends on a gantry arm, it slides into place over his head and the helmet clicks over the whole ensemble... we hear the gas pressurise with the same sound we heard in ESB and then there's a moment of silence broken fatally by the commencement of 22 years of that dreadful mechanical breathing that kept us awake, fearful, throughout most of our childhoods. I kid you not, as sure as I stand here riding this bike, the hairs on my arms stood vertical! Here he was in all his scalded glory... not at all besmirched by the mental image of Rick Moranis as 'Dark Helmet' in Spaceballs.


Yes, this was one smegger of a good film, even if it wasn't worth the 3 year wait George always insists on. The one turd in the water-pipe was the complete lack of logic. Does worrying about your missus automatically so fry your brainpower that you equate slaughtering a room full of 5-10 year olds with bringing about "peace, freedom and democracy"? Presumably so if your name is Anakin (or George W. Bush of course... 😀 - oh yes, the limey smeg is back!). It certainly underlined his transition to darkness in a way that not even a real life politician could manage. It really shocked. Anakin was gone, not to be seen again for another 22 years when he slew both Vader and Palpatine at the end of ROTJ.


Okay, so when does Episode 7 come out? 😀😀😀

 

[nerobob]

The first part where we see Darth Vader in all his glory was the best part of the film IMO. Right up until this little part:

"Where's Padme?"
"You killed her, dolt"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"




That's not the Vader of my childhood.

 

[BigJim]

And indeed he DID kill her. He spent the whole film worrying his plums off about her dying and it turns out to be his worrying and insecurity that CAUSED her death.

Luke may be a whiny pleb, but Anakin is a total and utter knob-end.

 

[asutickler]

I just saw Episode III last night, and it was (to my surprise) pretty darn good. More action + more Yoda + fewer terribly written and poorly acted Anakin/Padme scenes + Ian McDairmid doing an *excellent* acting job = a much better Star Wars movie.

Although that long, drawn-out "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" from Vader at the end was nothing short of embarassing... Dark Lord of the Sith my ass.

 

[BigJim]

I ahve had some time to think about it, and even though I liked it, there are still things that I am upset about.

Lucas still didn't pay attention to his own writing when crafting these prequels, and he is going to have to delete shots and lines when he changes them again (You know he will). IN Ep 4 Obi Wan says

"When I met your father he was already a great pilot, but I was amazed at how stong with the force he was. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought I could train him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

So it should have been Obi Wan finding him, and he was older and a pilot already.

Much as I hate defending George Lucas 🙂D) this doesn't exactly follow. "Met" doesn't automatically imply "found". He did meet him, right after Qui-Gon found him. And he was already a great pilot: witness the piloting of the racing pod in the race on Tatooine and the rather "instinctive" performance in the Battle of Naboo that blew the smeg out of the droid control ship and won the battle.

 

[BigJim]

yeah but he wasn't amazed at how stongly the force was with Anakin at all. In fact, he was giving Qui Gon crap about trying to get the boy into the Jedi order, and that "The boy is dangerous." and that the rest of the council could see it, and why cant Qui Gon.

He was amazed. Qui-Gon sent him a digital reading of the midichlorian count in his blood and asked him to analyse it on the ships computer. His jaw hit the floor and he reported it was over 20,000 (higher than the ship's computer could read in fact, hence the vague and inexact reading of "over 20,000") which is higher than any Jedi in history, including Yoda.

This could easilly account for the comment about "being amazed at how strongly the Force was with him". The fact that he regarded Anakin as dangerous and worried about Qui-Gon not obeying the exact instructions of the Jedi Council is neither here nor there as he doesn't refer to it in ANH. It's irrelevant.

He wanted nothing to do with Anakin, and the only reason he went to bat for him with the council was because of a promise he had made to Qui Gon. And it still doesnt change the fact that in ANH he makes it sound like he personally took Anakin aside and trained him out of the Jedi order, and it was the fact that he trained him on his own, and that Anakin didnt have the benefit of being trained by the Jedi order that was his undoing into the sith.

Lucas has been retrospectively vague, I will agree. But Obi-Wan's remarks in ANH don't 100% contradict anything from ROTS without good reason. (He could hardly tell Luke how he came to be in the posession of his father's lightsabre for instance - so he just says "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough". Not too far from the truth as he could reasonably expect that Anakin would have wanted such a thing if he had died.) He also doesn't make any direct reference or even a vague inference to Anakin having been trained "on the quiet" away from the knowledge of the Order. He specifically says indeed "I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father", which directly contradicts what you say. It makes it sound that Anakin couldn't have been anything else BUT a member of the Jedi Order.

And he was a pod racer, but he wasn't a pilot yet. The fact is Lucas needed to make a story and so he bypassed what he had already done as canon just to have something for people to watch.

The Battle of Naboo takes place not many days after the events of the pod race; certainly within a fortnight or so, probably within a week. As it was so soon, it's not in any way contradictory for Obi-Wan to assosciate the battle's date as being within the time he first knew Anakin, so it isn't wrong for him to say that Anakin was already a good pilot when he first knew him.

 

[BigJim]

Okay well what about when Obi Wan says. "That's What your Uncle told you. He didn't hold with your fathers ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved." and "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your Uncle woudn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your Father did."

So This didn't happen. This says that Uncole Owen and Anakin already knew each other before Anakin became a Jedi, and that Obi Wan came along and talked Anakind to going with him to become a Jedi and get involved in the Wars. Well this didn;t happen. Anakin was already a Jedi when he and Unfle Owen met for the first time. Obi Wan was no where around. Uncle Owen put up no protest other than Anakin going out to look for his mom. Anakin doesn't follow Obi Wan. And again, it appears that Obi Wan found Anakin and not Qui gon. Qui gon was probably not even a thought then when Lucas worte this, but Lucas needed Obi Wan to be a Padawan and have another Jedi find Anakin. But it does nto jive with what came before, which actually comes later in the storyline.

"Following Obi-Wan on some damn fool crusade" implies a specific crusade, not an entire career path (joining the Jedi Order in this case). Probably it is the Clone Wars this talks about, which hadn't started yet by this time. Owen Lars thinking Anakin should have stayed at home and not been arsed to get involved in politics doesn't necessarilly refer to his membership of the Order. It could even be referring to Anakin becoming Darth Vader. It's unclear if Owen Lars knows about Vader's identity. That haunted look and saying "that's what I'm afraid of" to Beru could easilly imply that he's only talking about being an adventuring person who got himself killed. We never find out if Owen knows if Anakin is actually still alive and is lying to Luke about him being dead, just as he was with Obi-Wan. It could also be that Obi-Wan is being economic with the truth to paraphrase the history into something Luke can relate to, just as he did with the lightsabre. It is a good example of Lucas's lack of clarity though. Obi-Wan implies in ESB and ROTJ that he was a padawan learner to Yoda, but we later find out he only learnt from Yoda in his formative years before being apprenticed to Qui-Gon.

n.b. I don't remember Owen putting up a protest of any kind. The only protest came from his father, Clieg.

 

[BigJim]

I totally agree with you about the inconsistencies, I just think there's enough wiggle room for Lucas to be ambiguous and wriggle free. He could undoubtedly have done a better continuity job, but he hasn't broken the fourth wall totally.