non-tickling spouses (what does one do?)

[GEORGIATKLER]

Warning: Marriage Advice From A Divorced Man!!

I Assume It Would Help To Know The Source/cause Of Her Tickle Hatred/phobia. It Seems That You Have Tried To Talk About It Together To No Avail. Would She Go To A Counselor Of Some Kind With You And Discuss This And Other Issues In The Marriage? Not To Convert Her, But Try To See What Else Might Be Causing The Line In The Sand Attitude. Maybe You Could Try Giving Massages Instead Of Tickling? Good Luck To You Both.

 

[Mitchell]

Falcon, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. After reading your post, these are my thoughts:

What bothers me about her position is this: It basically sounds to me like she's just unwilling to compromise with you on any level about this. No tickling, no going to NEST, she doesnt like that you visit chatrooms, and watch clips. To me, all those things are her saying: "Do it my way, and I dont care what you think". I have a huge issue with that. The NEST situation is tricky. Many spouses who arent into tickling, and even some who are, wouldnt want their significant others going there, and tickling others, or being tickled by others, because they feel it is essentially cheating.

If you can't get her to compromise on the tickling, and you can't attend NEST, and have decided that tickling is not an important enough issue for you to break up your relationship with her over, then the only thing you really can do is to seek outlets like TMF, Yahoo IM, clips, and such, and just view clips, and talk about tickling with like minded people, while hoping that maybe you can get occasional, even rare, tickling opportunties in with her. Apparently, you have other reasons to stay with her, which outweigh tickling, and that's to be respected.

Good Luck. I do hope that you can find enjoyable outlets for the fetish, and that somehow, you can get some tickling in with her at least on some occasions.

Take it easy,
Mitch

 

[FeatherFeet]

sneaking behind someone's bk is never the right thing to do, no matter the circumstances, even this one. nice to knwo you arent considering that.

however, I have to say, that she is being more than unreasonable about the situation. it's like she expects you to just forget about tickling all together, with no ifs ands or buts about it, and that isn't right.

but the worst thing you could possibly do is give up on the situation. if you feel divorce is not an option, then chancea are she feels the same way. but she is really showing a lack of appreciation for you or your feelings in this situation. she needs to be made to realize that this is important to you, maybe not important enough to leave her for, but important enought o make you unhappy for the rest of your life.

does she really want to do that to you? does she understand that that is what she is doing to you? if she was outside looking in, do you think she would like how she is treating you? probably not.

i wouldn't back down, you will be unhappy for the rest of your days, and u will probably wish you had divorced.

you are young enough where change in the marriage can still occur for the better, but that window will soon fade into the solomn idiocy of complete routine where any kind of change will be earthshattering. you need to stand your ground now. if she gets angry at you, you know what? GET ANGRY AT HER! YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO. maybe show her you mean business by going to a hotel for a few days, show her how pissed you actually are. how much this actually means to you.

if she wants to keep you, she has to respect you and your opinions and not just expect you to give into her 100%. compromise is everything. if she loves you, she would be willing to give a little. that's as simple as it can be explained.

 

[Mac]

There is so much I would like to say here but also want to e so careful I've been there on this one and am curious about a few things.

1. Before you were married, did she let you tickle her then? Was she supportive then? How in depth was her knowledge of this?

2. Are there other issues she will not deal with besides the tickling or is the way she s dealing with this one particular area out of character for her?

I am curious as to this before I give my two cents worth other than...

Love her to death whether she is right or wrong. Just love her. Even though her insecurity probably has nothing to do with you, and that is probably a whole other issue for her, make SURE you love her (in actions and affections) so that she has no choice but to KNOW how much you really adore her and care for her. When she laughs whether from a brief tickle or a comedy, sweetly tell her how much HER laugh turns you on. I don't want to add more just yet, because I don't know enough to comment...

 

[scorpionldr]

Ok, so most of you already know that my wife is not in to tickling like I am. As a matter of fact, she's not in to it at all. We've discussed the issue many times and she's known about my fetish since i started dating her.......15 years ago. We're now married over 11 years. Here's the very short version of this tragic tale:

She: Is not in to it, will not let me tickle her, will not give me any kind of outlet to tickle others, will not allow me to attend NEST (eventhough she has family in Philly, but she basically told me that if I go to NEST she'd leave me), is not crazy about the fact that I'm on this forum and that I chat with people in the chat room, not crazy about the fact that I chat with people on Yahoo IM as well, doesn't like the fact that I occasionally spend money downloading video clips (maybe like $10 at a time and maybe only once a month, when we have a household income of over $100,000/year), and will not compromise with me on any level on the issue.

I: Have at least attempted, several times and without success, to talk to her about the issue. I have attempted, again without success, to compromise with her on actually "scheduling" one day out of the month where I can tickle her. That lasted all of about a month and I never heard anything else about it. Now when I try to talk to her about the situation we end up fighting over it and that's not worth doing nor does it solve anything at all, so most of the time I just say nothing. I don't even bring the subject up hardly anymore. For my birthday, all I wanted was to be able to tickle her and all she did was complain about how cold the room was and how freezing she was. By the end of the night, it was 85 fucking degrees in the room and I was sweating like a pig.

The bottom line is basically this: I am unable to do things that I sould be able to do with the one woman that I care more about than anyone else, my wife. However, because I can't, she gives me no outlet, so I am stuck wondering what the fuck I'm supposed to do. I even asked her that one day and she gave me absolutely no answer at all. So there we are back to square 1. Now I know what you're asking: is it that she's not in to it or she's just not ticklish? Probably much of both and if she's not ticklish then so be it. I can't change that, I accept it. But still, what am I to do here??????

I don't care if your opinions are bad or good guys, be honest. If I'm being a whiny little bitch then say so, its all good. But fuck, someone tell me something!

well bud, coming from a bitter sonofabitch, "your fucked." sorry, but I think this shit coming from women is just rediculous. best you can do is just get quiet and maybe she'll wonder what your up to and try to fix it

 

[dnatkl]

Falcon I am sorry that she is providing no outlet for you. One thing to think about in trying to understand her position is this: tickling seems to be a sexual thing for you. Maybe I am wrong and it isn't just sexual for you, but she may think that it is. If she thinks it is only a sexual thing for you, of course she is not going to allow you to indulge outside your marriage. It may be that it is tantamount to sleeping with another woman in her mind. If she sees this as being sexually linked, and it is not, then you need to try to convey that to her to see if she can understand. If she can't then there really doesn't seem to be much that you can do about it.

Trying to understand why she feels the way she does about it might help as well. There may be a reason she feels the way she does, and if there is it is important to be respectful of her reasons, even if you don't understand them fully, or they don't seem that bad to you. Her feelings are real to her and must be considered as you try to deal with the situation. Even if her reason is unreasonable to you, it is real and reasonable to her.
Good luck to you.

 

[Icycle]

falcon, you may want to seek couples counseling with your wife from a kink-friendly professional. This is clearly a major issue for you, and you and your wife by yourselves have been unable to come to a compromise that makes either of you happy. It might be time to seek professional assistance.

 

[ticklebutterfly]

have you considered she might have had a really bad tickling experience when she was younger from a creepy uncle or something?
maybe she hasn't told you because she's been so traumatised?

However, she does sound a little unreasonable.
You should try giving her massages and making her really relaxed then gently tickling her a little. This would then make her start to associate tickling with relaxing massages?

Anywho not everyone likes it. For some, it can be an adrenaline rush, or it could be deeply uncomfortable, or even humilating.
You really need to get to the bottom of why she doesn't like it.
🙂

 

[Kalba]

Is there anything you can offer her that might make the difference?

She must want something from you. Find out what it is and use it as leverage for either an outlet or time with her. Offer short in duration and intensity to start. Let her take her turn on you. Maybe a little easing into it if you can find a way to open the door is the way to go.

 

[falcon]

Hey guys, well cone again these are all really, really good points of view and opinions and I thank all of you for taking time out of your lives to send them to me 🙂 Makes me feel better and know that others have or are expriencing the same thing. Most of you I can agree with, some of you I disagree with and others I agree to disagree. lol! I'm spending the next couple days (tonight was the first night) at a martial arts seminar, getting beat on, beating on others, etc. Great fun so when I get back from that I'll reply to the posts I have read of as recently. Thanks again guys!!

Falcon

 

[JoeTKL]

falcon, you may want to seek couples counseling with your wife from a kink-friendly professional. This is clearly a major issue for you, and you and your wife by yourselves have been unable to come to a compromise that makes either of you happy. It might be time to seek professional assistance.

I agree with the above. I can already tell she'll think counseling for this issue is 'stupid', but just tell her it is something that is important to you, and you don't see any other way around it (compare it to something she likes, sexually, and ask her what she would do if you refused to do that). You can even just go by yourself to start, and then have her join a session down the road. The counselor will just help either get to the bottom of the problem, and/or assist in finding a middle ground.

Is she protests and tells you to stop spending the money, tell her you'll stop once she attends 3 sessions with you. Otherwise, tell her you'll keep going on a weekly or bi-monthly basis until she is willing to join.

 

[steph]

Well, yikes, diving into other peoples relationships~for starters, the only 2 people who really know the relationship are, well, actually that~the only two, and they're the only two who can change it. But since you asked, here goes---No. I don't think you're a "pussy whiny bitch" or whatever you called yourself, you seem like a decent guy with a problem.

A little about me: I've always been one of those people who stand out as "not like 'regular' people" (I'm not a supermodel but people do notice when I walk into a room and they notice when I leave it~kind of that indescribable "something"~you have someone in your life like this, everybody does) and as such, my relationships have been (no surprise) the same. Everyone (man, woman, whatever) who chooses to get involved with me knows to expect the unexpected. I do as I choose and my partner knows I'm assuming they do the same. I've always been drawn to people who have their own lives, apart from our relationship, I'd be nervous if they didn't~being someone's EVERYTHING is too much pressure for me. So, I've always done a bit of the "double life" thing. It's always worked for ME, it's not for everybody.

Now, about you: I'm most concerned about the (un)balance of power in your first post, and I think it speaks to a deeper problem. This strikes me as more of a dictatorship than a relationship, at least in this arena of your lives. Control issues here in a big way for her, especially disturbing after such a long history together. Phrases like she won't "LET" you do ANYTHING raise a big red flag for me, here or with anyone else I know. And her close minded attitude raises another. So she'd call Crystal a "*****", there are guys who like to be tickled, would she refer to them as *****s too? Is there a double standard in her mind? How much does she knows about what actually goes in a public or private session?

I get that it's sexual for you, does she get that it isn't for everyone, or in every setting? That it can be just fun for some people? Or relaxing? Is she this way about a professional massage (for your or herself?) Just throwing some questions out to ponder for you, the only right answers for you are the ones in your head, right?

XOXO

 

[jj82277]

I can understand the frustration of not having a spouse that shares your interest. I will take exception to something however. You said that you should be able to do this with her, the woman you love and are married to. What about her right to not have something done to her that she doesn't want done? Being married doesn't grant you ownership, or special rights to do things to your spouse that your spouse doesn't want done to them. It is possible to rape one's spouse. You are not entitled to do anything to her that she doesn't want done to her. Her body is still her body and she has the absolute right to say yes or no to you doing things to her body. She did not forfiet the right to say no when she married you.
I understand the frustration and have to deal with it myself, but you do not have the right to do something to your spouse that they do not want done, and have been very clear about it. You knew when you married her that she felt this way it sounds like from your post and you chose to marry her anyway. Focus on the good things.

in a sense it does. the purpose of marriage is to provide a sexual covering and to provide a safe place to raise the eventual offspring. this is not just a tax exemption or a way to get insurance benefits. sexual gratification is a right or marriage for both parties, especially in this case because he told her about the fetish before she married him. the bible is very very very clear on this subject, just check the 7th chapter of first corinthians (yes its there i promise).

the idea that as a married person who works 40 hours a week and comes home to their spouse someone should starve sexually is absurd. there is ofcourse reason within sexual orientation like other parties animals, blood letting, etc, but if the person can't l;et you play around with their feet for ten inutes before sex that is symptomatic of sociopathic behavior.

this is an unfortunate situation that started the minute that the guy told her about it and continued dating her without a solution. it's no ones fault really, they don't teach proper courtship in this country. at the same time it is her job as a wife to make him cum his brains out, period.

as it is his job as a husband to study her sexuality and make her cum HER brains out, anatomicly speking about 5 times as many times as he does as a matter of fact.

this learned aversion to good sex in marriage has got to go.

 

[jj82277]

Just win

Falcon, I'm sorry to say that I don't see a solution for you. You have already been reasonable and made every effort to compromise, but your wife won't budge. If you love her enough to bear it, then you're going to continue to have no outlet.

With regard to money, she is being totally unreasonable. Your household income is clearly enough not to worry about spending, indeed even if you go so far as to say wasting, $5 or $10 on a clip or an artist's brush. If it makes you happy to waste that much money on your hobby or interest which doesn't harm anybody, it should not cause any reasonable person to be upset. Sigh.

Now this is the train of thought that really bothers me in this situation. I not claiming to be doctor Phil or anything like that but I think that it is a safe bet that when your wife talks about you buying clips of other women for sexual gratification that it goes just a bit beyond the 5-10 bucks that you spend on her. This is a big emotional empathy issue.

You mentioned that your wife uses the word ***** very liberally. This to me, and I am no expert, clues me into the fact that she has some very clearly defined boundaries about sexuality. One of the unspoken realities about men and women is that we as men develop sexually a lot faster. Society is geared to allow us to explore our sexuality at a much earlier age. Conversely society is structured for women to guard theirs more closely-so that they don’t look like a *****. One of the unspoken challenges that we have as men and as leaders in the relationship is to gradually over the years of our relationship to nurture accept and affirm their sexual maturity. Usually at the time of marriage most women are just discovering what really arouses them and just becoming comfortable with the idea of enjoying sex period. It can be very overwhelming for a woman to just be getting into the swing of her sexuality and then be bombarded with the kinkiest side of ours when it is not something they are not naturally inclined to do.

You mentioned that in a recent discussion that you had with your wife that she said that you could tickle here more often. Your response was to go out and buy tickle tools, then this thing about the money. We all know that if you make a million dollars 100k or 10cents that the money is not the issue when it comes to female perception of sexuality. To her I think that it fundamentally symbolizes going outside the two of you. It takes someone to be very sexually secure to accept sex toys of any kind, especially in a situation where there is inherent apprehension. It’s very similar to why some guys don’t like the idea of using a vibrator on their wives because they think it is a concession on their parts that they themselves can please their wives without backup. For your wife I think that she still wants to just build on the foundation that you two have just between the two of you in your sexual relationship slowly before we get into the fetish shop, but down the road it could potentially be a possibility if you don’t weird her out now.

This situation is made more apparent by the comments that she has made about you being on forums and buying clips. She’s pissed and she should be. You are seeking sexual gratification outside your relationship and that’s wrong. You have already said that you are here doing more than going to the politics and religion forum to get a pulse on the upcoming election. I think that this (as it should) is another form of intimidation for her sexually and is inhibiting her comfort towards your fetish. To her right now allowing you to indulge in this fetish that exists primarily (in her mind) outside your relationship would be similar to asking her into a threesome. The NEST thing shouldn’t even be a topic for discussion. She has a problem with you buying a $5 clip and you want her to go and wa5tch you drool over other people while they are tickling each other?

It seems that you want her to accept your fetish as normal, and I think that’s the wrong approach. Ask any woman if she wants an AVERAGE sex life. Women don’t want that. Everyone, women especially have big signs around their neck, it reads, “MAKE ME FEEL SPECIAL.” Right now you are saying, “I have a fetish for tickling outside our relationship and I want to tickle you.” That’s not speaking her language. Right now this is symbolic in her mind of a fisher in your relationship that you fulfill primarily with other people be they models, or people on chat rooms. If you ever want her to be accepting of this you have to make it about her not you. It can’t be I get sexually aroused hearing WOMEN laugh, it has to be how sexy SHE is when she laughs, it can’t be about women’s feet, it has to me about HER FEET, etc.

15 years and you don’t know if she’s ticklish? Even normal people casually poke each other in the side from time to time. If you are overly compartmentalizing this into something that is only between you and the computer then that is only going to turn her off more and more. This has to be subtly integrated into your foreplay from time to time with complete focus on her comfort, NOT YOURS RIGHT NOW. It has to be playful, it has to be romantic, it has to be ABOUT HER.

And take a minute to congratulate yourself. A lot of people go through entire marriages never saying what is on their minds, you are at least being honest about it. You are just going about it in the wrong way. In all that you do, you have to remember to speak her language and understand where she is coming from and work to understand her comfort level even more than your own. That is the commitment you made when you put that jersey on. The name on the front of the jersey is more important than the one on the back. You have to understand that this is something that can be integrated into your regular sex lives over the next few years, but it will be over the next few years. Is it worth it, can you handle it, can you look in the mirror and say that its worth your marriage to take the time and make the sacrifices that it is going to take for your relationship to go to the next level, CAN YOU BE PERFECT. You have to understand that in the grand scheme of things we aren’t even at half time baby. It takes between 17-25 years to develop a mature marriage between two healthy people, and right now we are working through a major sexual incompatibility. But that’s okay, get some smiles on your faces, this is a SIXTY MINUTE BALLGAME, and it’s NEVER too late to turn it all around. At the same time that means we have to go to work on the defensive end of the ball fellas. That means that from now on it has to be about her not us.

That means that we have to sit down with her at the computer and delete all the clips in front of her.

That means that we have to stop going to sites to discuss this with other people.

This means that we have to take the time to let her know that she is the godess of our universe and the complete object of our sexuality.

This means that we are going to have to send flowers for no reason.

This means that we are going to have to watch what she wants on TV.

This means that we are going to have to take her shoe shopping.

This means that we are going to have to make sure that the ratio of her orgasms to ours is at least 3-1.

This means that we have to stop talking about wanting to tickle other women.

This means that we have to be willing to give our efforts time to COMPOUND.

The Indians used to do a rain dance, and it always worked. You want to know why? Because they didn’t STOP until it RAINED baby. That’s the type of commitment that is required, but that’s okay because that’s the commitment that we signed up for right? What are we going to be doing for the next 3-5 years anyway?

I can’t promise you that it will happen tomorrow or a month from now, but if you accept this challenge, and play for team mates and yourselves, I guarantee that we will be Champions.

Can you be PERFECT… without spot or blemish of ANY kind?

Woooo, get it up baby.

The toughest part will be getting past our own pathology. As lers we desire control in a world that we probably don't have much. That is the source of our interset, and with understanding can be the source of our strength.

 

[dskodj]

I really feel bad and hate when I see shit like this...cause ive been there man, exactly where you are a few times...with my ex wife and one specific girlfriend of the past as well. I dont wanna sound mean or anything..but from the info you provided..I would say this is a not good marrage (some of her charactor the way you described even sounded like my ex wife..which angers me when I even think about it LOL).

On impulse by not knowing you and only reading what you provided here, I would say just leave her and be a free sprit and yourself cause you've been fair, you've tried your hardest to comprimise it sounds like.

But then you say you've been together for 15 years which I dont know when things got like this cause I could also ask...why the hell did you marry her in the first place knowing this and there would be a sexual compatibility issue? But then again, I know some folks (me in the past included) can get themselves hooked on a marrge/relationship they know is no good, but they stay anyhow, sometimes for 5 years (like me), sometimes 20, sometimes for life (which if that happens thats sad..if I didnt wake up, that coulda been me).

I ended up on this forum (or finding it I should say) durring the time of my unhappy marrage/sex life at the time (the sex side wasnt all that was bad - FYI)...was looking for an out and others that have my fetish (no my marrage did not end cause of this forum or me doing anything behind her back..I just got fed up and woke up! LOL)

So it's kinda hard to really give a logical judgement cause again, im just going by your inital post of what you typed up and im not watching your life like a film or anything. Maybe im a bit bitter from my experiences in life but to be honest..I say have one more serious talk with her and if she still dont budge and is selfish..it's time to go man. Life is too short and each and every one of us could go any day, any time...there's no time for bullshit and no time for unnessesary pain or headaches. Live your life the way you want it, be yourself, be proud of it and dont get stuck in a rut.

So that's my oppinion on this..like I said, ive been there twice...and I aint NEVER goin back! Good luck to you my friend in whatever you choose to do 🙂

 

[jj82277]

I really feel bad and hate when I see shit like this...cause ive been there man, exactly where you are a few times...with my ex wife and one specific girlfriend of the past as well. I dont wanna sound mean or anything..but from the info you provided..I would say this is a not good marrage (some of her charactor the way you described even sounded like my ex wife..which angers me when I even think about it LOL).

On impulse by not knowing you and only reading what you provided here, I would say just leave her and be a free sprit and yourself cause you've been fair, you've tried your hardest to comprimise it sounds like.

But then you say you've been together for 15 years which I dont know when things got like this cause I could also ask...why the hell did you marry her in the first place knowing this and there would be a sexual compatibility issue? But then again, I know some folks (me in the past included) can get themselves hooked on a marrge/relationship they know is no good, but they stay anyhow, sometimes for 5 years (like me), sometimes 20, sometimes for life (which if that happens thats sad..if I didnt wake up, that coulda been me).

I ended up on this forum (or finding it I should say) durring the time of my unhappy marrage/sex life at the time (the sex side wasnt all that was bad - FYI)...was looking for an out and others that have my fetish (no my marrage did not end cause of this forum or me doing anything behind her back..I just got fed up and woke up! LOL)

So it's kinda hard to really give a logical judgement cause again, im just going by your inital post of what you typed up and im not watching your life like a film or anything. Maybe im a bit bitter from my experiences in life but to be honest..I say have one more serious talk with her and if she still dont budge and is selfish..it's time to go man. Life is too short and each and every one of us could go any day, any time...there's no time for bullshit and no time for unnessesary pain or headaches. Live your life the way you want it, be yourself, be proud of it and dont get stuck in a rut.

So that's my oppinion on this..like I said, ive been there twice...and I aint NEVER goin back! Good luck to you my friend in whatever you choose to do 🙂

this just brings up another good point. we have a responsibility. this site and others like it give us an inherent responsibility to make sure that we do everything in our power to make sure that our relationships are devoid of these sexual compatibility issues. this cannot just be a refuge for married people who are sick of trying and are looking for an adulterous outlet.

this is not the 30's where people probably felt cut off, alone, or like a pure freak because of this. we know that we are not alone, we know that there are people like us of the opposite sex who enjoy being tickle tortured as mcuh as we enjoy tickle torturing them (until the dems outlaw that too). that carries a responsibility with it to make sure that we seek these people out as mates so that we don't spend our lives in sexual frsutration.

the converse is to plow the hard road of the originator of this thread. it can be done, but why?

 

[unit5610]

I'm kind of in this situation with a not-ticklish wife of over 20 years. For me at least there's much more to it than tickling and we manage quite well without it. She will very occasionally indulge me with a short tickle, but our relationship is never going to feature much of it and I have no chance at 'lering with her. She is as vanilla as people come and this is the way it is and I accept that.
That being said I miss tickling opportunities a great deal and think about them often. Being a member here helps. I did "sneak" an opportunity when I briefly visited the New Hampshire gathering a couple summers ago as part of a weekend up north to visit college friends. It was amazing to meet people who thought the same way about tickling! My hope is that I can pull something off like that again or somehow meet up with someone from our region even if it's just for drinks and conversation as I have friends thoughout New England and try to see them on occasion.
Meanwhile I think you have to decide how important the tickling thing is and how much comfort you have with getting your tickling interest satisfied from other sources. The double-life thing is tough and can be stressful. I wish you luck and an answer, or at least a good compromise.

 

[falcon]

oh my god!!! LOL!!! you guys are giving me so much stuff to read i'll never be able to get it all done!! thanks a lot for all the replies you guys!! really, that's truely awesome!!! i'll be sure to read everything and get back with you all soon!!! be safe!!

Falcon
aka Luke

 

[falcon]

Now this is the train of thought that really bothers me in this situation. I not claiming to be doctor Phil or anything like that but I think that it is a safe bet that when your wife talks about you buying clips of other women for sexual gratification that it goes just a bit beyond the 5-10 bucks that you spend on her. This is a big emotional empathy issue.

You mentioned that your wife uses the word ***** very liberally. This to me, and I am no expert, clues me into the fact that she has some very clearly defined boundaries about sexuality. One of the unspoken realities about men and women is that we as men develop sexually a lot faster. Society is geared to allow us to explore our sexuality at a much earlier age. Conversely society is structured for women to guard theirs more closely-so that they don’t look like a *****. One of the unspoken challenges that we have as men and as leaders in the relationship is to gradually over the years of our relationship to nurture accept and affirm their sexual maturity. Usually at the time of marriage most women are just discovering what really arouses them and just becoming comfortable with the idea of enjoying sex period. It can be very overwhelming for a woman to just be getting into the swing of her sexuality and then be bombarded with the kinkiest side of ours when it is not something they are not naturally inclined to do.

You mentioned that in a recent discussion that you had with your wife that she said that you could tickle here more often. Your response was to go out and buy tickle tools, then this thing about the money. We all know that if you make a million dollars 100k or 10cents that the money is not the issue when it comes to female perception of sexuality. To her I think that it fundamentally symbolizes going outside the two of you. It takes someone to be very sexually secure to accept sex toys of any kind, especially in a situation where there is inherent apprehension. It’s very similar to why some guys don’t like the idea of using a vibrator on their wives because they think it is a concession on their parts that they themselves can please their wives without backup. For your wife I think that she still wants to just build on the foundation that you two have just between the two of you in your sexual relationship slowly before we get into the fetish shop, but down the road it could potentially be a possibility if you don’t weird her out now.

This situation is made more apparent by the comments that she has made about you being on forums and buying clips. She’s pissed and she should be. You are seeking sexual gratification outside your relationship and that’s wrong. You have already said that you are here doing more than going to the politics and religion forum to get a pulse on the upcoming election. I think that this (as it should) is another form of intimidation for her sexually and is inhibiting her comfort towards your fetish. To her right now allowing you to indulge in this fetish that exists primarily (in her mind) outside your relationship would be similar to asking her into a threesome. The NEST thing shouldn’t even be a topic for discussion. She has a problem with you buying a $5 clip and you want her to go and wa5tch you drool over other people while they are tickling each other?

It seems that you want her to accept your fetish as normal, and I think that’s the wrong approach. Ask any woman if she wants an AVERAGE sex life. Women don’t want that. Everyone, women especially have big signs around their neck, it reads, “MAKE ME FEEL SPECIAL.” Right now you are saying, “I have a fetish for tickling outside our relationship and I want to tickle you.” That’s not speaking her language. Right now this is symbolic in her mind of a fisher in your relationship that you fulfill primarily with other people be they models, or people on chat rooms. If you ever want her to be accepting of this you have to make it about her not you. It can’t be I get sexually aroused hearing WOMEN laugh, it has to be how sexy SHE is when she laughs, it can’t be about women’s feet, it has to me about HER FEET, etc.

15 years and you don’t know if she’s ticklish? Even normal people casually poke each other in the side from time to time. If you are overly compartmentalizing this into something that is only between you and the computer then that is only going to turn her off more and more. This has to be subtly integrated into your foreplay from time to time with complete focus on her comfort, NOT YOURS RIGHT NOW. It has to be playful, it has to be romantic, it has to be ABOUT HER.

And take a minute to congratulate yourself. A lot of people go through entire marriages never saying what is on their minds, you are at least being honest about it. You are just going about it in the wrong way. In all that you do, you have to remember to speak her language and understand where she is coming from and work to understand her comfort level even more than your own. That is the commitment you made when you put that jersey on. The name on the front of the jersey is more important than the one on the back. You have to understand that this is something that can be integrated into your regular sex lives over the next few years, but it will be over the next few years. Is it worth it, can you handle it, can you look in the mirror and say that its worth your marriage to take the time and make the sacrifices that it is going to take for your relationship to go to the next level, CAN YOU BE PERFECT. You have to understand that in the grand scheme of things we aren’t even at half time baby. It takes between 17-25 years to develop a mature marriage between two healthy people, and right now we are working through a major sexual incompatibility. But that’s okay, get some smiles on your faces, this is a SIXTY MINUTE BALLGAME, and it’s NEVER too late to turn it all around. At the same time that means we have to go to work on the defensive end of the ball fellas. That means that from now on it has to be about her not us.

That means that we have to sit down with her at the computer and delete all the clips in front of her.

That means that we have to stop going to sites to discuss this with other people.

This means that we have to take the time to let her know that she is the godess of our universe and the complete object of our sexuality.

This means that we are going to have to send flowers for no reason.

This means that we are going to have to watch what she wants on TV.

This means that we are going to have to take her shoe shopping.

This means that we are going to have to make sure that the ratio of her orgasms to ours is at least 3-1.

This means that we have to stop talking about wanting to tickle other women.

This means that we have to be willing to give our efforts time to COMPOUND.

The Indians used to do a rain dance, and it always worked. You want to know why? Because they didn’t STOP until it RAINED baby. That’s the type of commitment that is required, but that’s okay because that’s the commitment that we signed up for right? What are we going to be doing for the next 3-5 years anyway?

I can’t promise you that it will happen tomorrow or a month from now, but if you accept this challenge, and play for team mates and yourselves, I guarantee that we will be Champions.

Can you be PERFECT… without spot or blemish of ANY kind?

Woooo, get it up baby.

The toughest part will be getting past our own pathology. As lers we desire control in a world that we probably don't have much. That is the source of our interset, and with understanding can be the source of our strength.

Hey JJ,
Since you wrote the most so far, you get the first reply and there's a lot for me to cover so please be patient and I'll get to my points. Very first before anything, I will ask you and everyone to please, please, please leave their religious beliefs out of the equation. I don't believe that I brought the subject up within this particular topic and I don't follow the same path as you do, nor do I read the bible. So please respect my beliefs and don't solicit yours. That being said I'll go through and pick out the parts of your reply that I wanted to address. Please understand that I do appreciate everything that you said but also understand that I disagree with a lof it.

"You mentioned that in a recent discussion that you had with your wife that she said that you could tickle here more often. Your response was to go out and buy tickle tools, then this thing about the money. We all know that if you make a million dollars 100k or 10cents that the money is not the issue when it comes to female perception of sexuality. To her I think that it fundamentally symbolizes going outside the two of you."
How do you figure this to be? She said I could tickle HER more often so I went out and bought a couple things so that I could tickle HER more often. Not really sure where you were going with that one. Having toys is not the issue. If that's your train of thought then obviously you haven't seen what's in her nightstand next to the bed that she frequently allows me to use on her. I ask to use them on her because I know it gives her a lot of pleasure.


"This situation is made more apparent by the comments that she has made about you being on forums and buying clips. She’s pissed and she should be. You are seeking sexual gratification outside your relationship and that’s wrong. You have already said that you are here doing more than going to the politics and religion forum to get a pulse on the upcoming election."
This is where a lot of people get confused. I'm not seeking sexual gratification outside of my marriage. If that were the case I would not still be married. Do you think that my wife would have stuck around with me for the past 15 years if this were true?? Not really sure on your logic there either, JJ.

"To her right now allowing you to indulge in this fetish that exists primarily (in her mind) outside your relationship would be similar to asking her into a threesome. The NEST thing shouldn’t even be a topic for discussion. She has a problem with you buying a $5 clip and you want her to go and wa5tch you drool over other people while they are tickling each other?"
As I've said before, she's known about this from day one when we started dating. She was a little more receptive to it when we were younger but that has diminished a lot over the years. So you're saying that she shouldn't allow me to indulge in this at all?? How is that fair to me in any way? And while I did ask her if she wanted to go to NEST with me, I told her that we would both be going as observers only or that if she ever allowed me to go by myself that I would go as an observer only (and I would). She said she wouldn't go because its just not her thing, so we agreed to that. She also said that she would at least consider looking over the info about NEST so she could educate herself a little, which to me, is a small step in the right direction.

"Right now this is symbolic in her mind of a fisher in your relationship that you fulfill primarily with other people be they models, or people on chat rooms. If you ever want her to be accepting of this you have to make it about her not you. It can’t be I get sexually aroused hearing WOMEN laugh, it has to be how sexy SHE is when she laughs, it can’t be about women’s feet, it has to me about HER FEET, etc."
You're failing here to unerstand a couple of things: 1) The fact that I get aroused when I hear a woman laugh is not something that I can control. It just happens and she knows this. 2) She doesn't allow me to tickle her so how do you suppose I make the situation about her? The whole point of this thread is that I have no outlet. If you've read my other posts here I have stated quite clearly that sneaking behind her back is something I would never do.


"That means that from now on it has to be about her not us.

That means that we have to sit down with her at the computer and delete all the clips in front of her.

That means that we have to stop going to sites to discuss this with other people.

This means that we have to take the time to let her know that she is the godess of our universe and the complete object of our sexuality.

This means that we are going to have to send flowers for no reason.

This means that we are going to have to watch what she wants on TV.

This means that we are going to have to take her shoe shopping.

This means that we are going to have to make sure that the ratio of her orgasms to ours is at least 3-1.

This means that we have to stop talking about wanting to tickle other women.

This means that we have to be willing to give our efforts time to COMPOUND."

Ok, let me explain to you some things that aren't going to happen and the let me explain to you how I spolie the fucking hell out of my wife and how I treat her like an absolute queen, since you seem to think I treat my wife like shit, from what I have read: Not getting rid of my clips, sorry bro. And I'm not staying off of the TMF. I can't discuss the subject with her (once again providing no outlet) so who do I talk to or bullshit with if I can't come here? Are you crazy????
Now I'll explain the things that I do so that if there is any doubt that I treat my wife like crap, we'll put it to rest right now: First off, my wife and I are both in the law enforcement field. She works 10 shifts during the day, I work 12 hours shifts on graves. We get three days per week to spend with each other, literally. During those 3 days, typically:

I cook dinner for us
I clean the kitchen afterwards (pots and pans included)
I will let my wife spend $200 on a fucking purse that I know full well she doesn't need but I know she wants
I clean the cat box
I do housework
I do yardwork
I run errands when something needs to be done
I let her watch whatever she wants to watch on TV (her biggest thing is watching Charmed, even though she has every episode from every season on DVD)
I (can't) get her flowers because the cats eat them
I (don't) talk about wanting to tickle other women
I (don't) drink and beat the shit out of my wife (I don't even drink at all)
I (don't) do any drugs whatsoever
I treat my wife with total respect and complete trust all the time


The wrap that I seem to be getting from you is that I'm some kind of lazy piece of shit that doesn't do a single thing for my wife and that's not the case, nor is it the issue. The issue was simply: she's known about it, she doesn't really allow me to do it with her and she gives me no outlet. My only question was to see what other people thought I should do. I've received a lot of replies about counseling and I have asked her about that several times. Yes, me, a GUY, volunteered to go to counseling. Imgaine that! She's turned me down every time. But I'm still the bad guy, right?

I think that maybe we just agree to disagree, JJ. I do thank you for your input and the time it took for you to write all that out, but I just have to disagree with a lot of what you said. This doesn't ONLY affect her, it affects me as well, which affects us as a whole. Thanks again for your time and patience, JJ. I do appreciate it!


Falcon

 

[Icycle]

I've received a lot of replies about counseling and I have asked her about that several times. Yes, me, a GUY, volunteered to go to counseling. Imgaine that! She's turned me down every time. But I'm still the bad guy, right?

I still think that counseling from a kink-friendly couples counselor is your best option. Here is a great article on how to get your partner to agree to therapy from the Clinical Directory of Couples and Family Therapy at Purdue University:

http://www.calumet.purdue.edu/cftc/howto.html

Here are a few points from the article that may be of use to you:

• Don't let your spouse pull you into an argument. Try a broken record technique such as: "We disagree; and we disagree a lot. That's why I would like for us to go to marital therapy." Say it over and over (like a broken record), rather than get pulled into an argument. Also, ask for what you do want from your spouse, rather than what you don't want.
• If you have previously asked your spouse to go to therapy before and he/she refused, ask again, but ask differently. Most people have great difficulty asking their partner to counseling in a non-defensive, caring way because they are hurting. Try, "I love you, I care about us and I need some help in learning how to communicate to you better. I would like to try counseling" Select a time when there are no distractions, and your spouse is rested.
• Lastly, if you absolutely cannot get your spouse to agree to go to marital therapy, go yourself. A good therapist can help you develop strategies to get your spouse into counseling, and at the very least you can change how you are managing your relationship problems.

 

[falcon]

You know, we actually have a kink-friendly person we could talk to about the issue, however, she happens to be a former co-worker of my wife's but she's also the one who my wife gets all her "toys" from! lol!! oddly eneough. So I'm not sure how receptive my wife will be about going to this particular person. Maybe if it were someone outside that we didn't know personally? Could possibly work better but at the very least we do openly talk about the problem. We can just never find a common ground.

 

[jj82277]

Hey JJ,
Since you wrote the most so far, you get the first reply and there's a lot for me to cover so please be patient and I'll get to my points. Very first before anything, I will ask you and everyone to please, please, please leave their religious beliefs out of the equation. I don't believe that I brought the subject up within this particular topic and I don't follow the same path as you do, nor do I read the bible. So please respect my beliefs and don't solicit yours. That being said I'll go through and pick out the parts of your reply that I wanted to address. Please understand that I do appreciate everything that you said but also understand that I disagree with a lof it.

"You mentioned that in a recent discussion that you had with your wife that she said that you could tickle here more often. Your response was to go out and buy tickle tools, then this thing about the money. We all know that if you make a million dollars 100k or 10cents that the money is not the issue when it comes to female perception of sexuality. To her I think that it fundamentally symbolizes going outside the two of you."
How do you figure this to be? She said I could tickle HER more often so I went out and bought a couple things so that I could tickle HER more often. Not really sure where you were going with that one. Having toys is not the issue. If that's your train of thought then obviously you haven't seen what's in her nightstand next to the bed that she frequently allows me to use on her. I ask to use them on her because I know it gives her a lot of pleasure.

that's a fundamental misinterpretation of the perceptive nature of sexual inhancers. most women use some form of inhanced clitoral stimulation because the clitorous is their main source of orgasm. this is much more of a psychological norm and less of a hurdle. we as men have a bigger problem with vibes on average than they do. conversely wehn you get into fetish toys it is a little bit different and it takes a lot more time to get used to something.

what i am saying is that you were offside. she was signalling for the play to start at the 5 yard line you tried to start 5 inches from the goal line. i think that she was expecting some form of casual or sensual hand to hand tickling inorporated with or prior to sex just involving the two of you. again, you have to be concious of her comfort level and ease her into this. you can';t just show up with 5 paint brushes on the first day of inhanced alloted tickling.

"This situation is made more apparent by the comments that she has made about you being on forums and buying clips. She’s pissed and she should be. You are seeking sexual gratification outside your relationship and that’s wrong. You have already said that you are here doing more than going to the politics and religion forum to get a pulse on the upcoming election."
This is where a lot of people get confused. I'm not seeking sexual gratification outside of my marriage. If that were the case I would not still be married. Do you think that my wife would have stuck around with me for the past 15 years if this were true?? Not really sure on your logic there either, JJ.

yes, that's what women do. some women rationalize this type of behavior as harmless, but at the same time it doesn't mean that they are comfortable with it. and the idea of woemn staying in marriages despite this is common. a lot of women sacrafice of themselves just for the emotional closeness of marriage. there is a part of your sexual being that she is not stimulating that you are getting stimulated somewhere else and she is not comfortable with that.

"To her right now allowing you to indulge in this fetish that exists primarily (in her mind) outside your relationship would be similar to asking her into a threesome. The NEST thing shouldn’t even be a topic for discussion. She has a problem with you buying a $5 clip and you want her to go and wa5tch you drool over other people while they are tickling each other?"
As I've said before, she's known about this from day one when we started dating. She was a little more receptive to it when we were younger but that has diminished a lot over the years. So you're saying that she shouldn't allow me to indulge in this at all?? How is that fair to me in any way? And while I did ask her if she wanted to go to NEST with me, I told her that we would both be going as observers only or that if she ever allowed me to go by myself that I would go as an observer only (and I would). She said she wouldn't go because its just not her thing, so we agreed to that. She also said that she would at least consider looking over the info about NEST so she could educate herself a little, which to me, is a small step in the right direction.

the right direction is the two of you coming together, not her being more accepting of you doing things outside the relaitonship. that is the most expedient. i am saying that she should serve all facits of your sexuality but it has to be about her, not just the love of tickling that you want to do with her. there is a contextual difference that women pick up on trust me.

"Right now this is symbolic in her mind of a fisher in your relationship that you fulfill primarily with other people be they models, or people on chat rooms. If you ever want her to be accepting of this you have to make it about her not you. It can’t be I get sexually aroused hearing WOMEN laugh, it has to be how sexy SHE is when she laughs, it can’t be about women’s feet, it has to me about HER FEET, etc."
You're failing here to unerstand a couple of things: 1) The fact that I get aroused when I hear a woman laugh is not something that I can control. It just happens and she knows this. 2) She doesn't allow me to tickle her so how do you suppose I make the situation about her? The whole point of this thread is that I have no outlet. If you've read my other posts here I have stated quite clearly that sneaking behind her back is something I would never do.

you still don't get it. i understand that it is soimething you can't control, just like being aroused by large breasts, but you can't come home and ask your wife to get a breast implant because your secretary makes your dick hard. that is the wrong approach. what i am saying is that this has to be something localized to your wife and she has to feel that way. for it to work it is going to have to take a lot of work and sacrafice on your part to make her realize that this is not something that you compartmentalize from her and then want her to indulge you in retroactively.

and i sitll find it hard o believe that in the course of 15 years you haven't pked her in the side or tickled her feet. that just literally boggles the mind. most normal people are comfortabblt with tickling between lovers let alone indulging someone with a fetish. something jsut doesn't add up.


"That means that from now on it has to be about her not us.

That means that we have to sit down with her at the computer and delete all the clips in front of her.

That means that we have to stop going to sites to discuss this with other people.

This means that we have to take the time to let her know that she is the godess of our universe and the complete object of our sexuality.

This means that we are going to have to send flowers for no reason.

This means that we are going to have to watch what she wants on TV.

This means that we are going to have to take her shoe shopping.

This means that we are going to have to make sure that the ratio of her orgasms to ours is at least 3-1.

This means that we have to stop talking about wanting to tickle other women.

This means that we have to be willing to give our efforts time to COMPOUND."

Ok, let me explain to you some things that aren't going to happen and the let me explain to you how I spolie the fucking hell out of my wife and how I treat her like an absolute queen, since you seem to think I treat my wife like shit, i didn't say that, did i say that, i said that you are going to have to be further demosntrative that this is about her not you. spoilig your wife however does not include buying clips of other women. that last 5% of the budget is the killer. from what I have read: Not getting rid of my clips, sorry bro. then you have failed. it is jsut a matter of time. there is a part of yourself that you are not willing to give, that is a lack of commitment and the goal of interaction with your wife will not be achieved, and she takes this as a direct sexual rejection. And I'm not staying off of the TMF. I can't discuss the subject with her (once again providing no outlet) so who do I talk to or bullshit with if I can't come here? Are you crazy????

yes. i actually believe that men should honor their wives. no one on this board and no inkling of sexual desire is more important than her. your refusal to delete them is the same if not more egregious than her refusal to let her tickle you.

Now I'll explain the things that I do so that if there is any doubt that I treat my wife like crap, we'll put it to rest right now: First off, my wife and I are both in the law enforcement field. She works 10 shifts during the day, I work 12 hours shifts on graves. We get three days per week to spend with each other, literally. During those 3 days, typically:

I cook dinner for us
I clean the kitchen afterwards (pots and pans included)
I will let my wife spend $200 on a fucking purse that I know full well she doesn't need but I know she wants
I clean the cat box
I do housework
I do yardwork
I run errands when something needs to be done
I let her watch whatever she wants to watch on TV (her biggest thing is watching Charmed, even though she has every episode from every season on DVD)
I (can't) get her flowers because the cats eat them
I (don't) talk about wanting to tickle other women
I (don't) drink and beat the shit out of my wife (I don't even drink at all)
I (don't) do any drugs whatsoever
I treat my wife with total respect and complete trust all the time

except when you are deriving sexual pleasure from watching other women be tickled, or you are talking to other women being tickled destroying your swifes self esteem.

The wrap that I seem to be getting from you is that I'm some kind of lazy piece of shit that doesn't do a single thing for my wife and that's not the case, nor is it the issue. wow, sort of defensive ther aren't we. The issue was simply: she's known about it, she doesn't really allow me to do it with her and she gives me no outlet. My only question was to see what other people thought I should do. I've received a lot of replies about counseling and I have asked her about that several times. Yes, me, a GUY, volunteered to go to counseling. Imgaine that! She's turned me down every time. But I'm still the bad guy, right?

no, you are not the bad guy, you are just the guy. you are still dunfamentally and admitedly unwilling to change. this is all about her changing to what you want. i don't get a good sense that you express much of concern for her level of understanding or being. after 15 years you should be able to tell us all why this is happening.

really after 5 dates you should be able to. this is symptomatic of a fundamental breakdown in the courtship process. this is a date 3-5 issue. this is a must have that you failed to communicate to her properly. now we are living with the consequences and it is a long road to plow. you are looking at her as unaccepting but as people have said to most vanillas extreme tickling is a phobia.

I think that maybe we just agree to disagree, JJ. I do thank you for your input and the time it took for you to write all that out, but I just have to disagree with a lot of what you said. This doesn't ONLY affect her, it affects me as well, which affects us as a whole. Thanks again for your time and patience, JJ. I do appreciate it!


Falcon

hey man, its what i can do to help. i know that i am probably int he minority oppinion in this venue, especailyl on this issue, but i value honesty. i think that `the big question is that if this was such a big part of your life why did you go through an entire courtship process without bringing it up. really its hard to label her unfair if through that whole time it was never really made a big deal. unfortunately from where i sit this may not have been the best longterm partner for you. the hardest hting to do with couples is to deal with an incompatibility for a must have or a can't stand and it takes a lot of work. this is a pebble in the shoe that can cause major problems down the road and i would encourage you to work hard with her to work it out. as long as there are things that you are not willing to do to make her more comfortable then i thinkt hat the situation might not improve as much as we would all like. thank you for taking ht time to read my post.

 

[jj82277]

You know, we actually have a kink-friendly person we could talk to about the issue, however, she happens to be a former co-worker of my wife's but she's also the one who my wife gets all her "toys" from! lol!! oddly eneough. So I'm not sure how receptive my wife will be about going to this particular person. Maybe if it were someone outside that we didn't know personally? Could possibly work better but at the very least we do openly talk about the problem. We can just never find a common ground.

of the four personality types, sanguin choloric meloncholy and flagmatic which one do you identify the most which, and which is your secondary.

also, what do you think is the root of your ler state?

 

[Icycle]

You know, we actually have a kink-friendly person we could talk to about the issue, however, she happens to be a former co-worker of my wife's but she's also the one who my wife gets all her "toys" from! lol!! oddly eneough. So I'm not sure how receptive my wife will be about going to this particular person. Maybe if it were someone outside that we didn't know personally? Could possibly work better but at the very least we do openly talk about the problem. We can just never find a common ground.

I was actually referring to a kink-friendly professional couples counselor.

 

[primetime]

Very interesting thread. Falcon, I feel for you. I hope somehow, someway, you and your wife can come to a "compromise".

Here's what I don't understand. Why should Falcon give up his love for tickling? Because his wife doesn't like it? From recent posts, it seems like Falcon already goes above and beyond treating his wife well and sacrificing things for her "happiness". I have always wondered why the husband has to abandon things he enjoys just to satisfy his wife? I believe in sacrifice, but I also believe in fairness. His wife has to understand that tickling is who he is. The simple fact that he hasn't gone outside his marriage to tickle someone shows just how much he is dedicated to her.

For years, I have had friends who have to "give up" their love of certain things they enjoy JUST BECAUSE their wife doesn't like it. Things like going to sporting events once a week during the fall. Things like seeing your close friends every blue moon because it has been over several years that you actually hung out with them. JJ, why can't we look at Falcon's wife as just plain selfish? I do not get your viewpoint. If everything else in their lives is cool, why must he give up his love for something that was there well before he met her?

Falcon, I do wonder why your wife is so much against tickling. I think you know, you're just not telling us. We are only reading one side of the story, so do you even know why she has this "dislike" for tickling?