oh how SWEET it is!!!! no ring for "Fat Boy"....

[Sunriseticklee]

Oh I'm just sitting back laughing my ass off as all the work is being done for me....

*You heard about Kobe?*
"Yeah Man... What a selfish piece of *bleep*"
~Shhh... Here he comes!~

"Double team Kobe... Nowadays he shoots more than he passes the ball! 1-2-3 BREAK!"

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[primetime]

you know, that's what i like about this thread. people never cease to amaze me.....

Kis, the point i was making is that the reason why guys dont like to watch WNBA is because they cant dunk, they cant "high fly", and entertain us the same way like the players of the NBA do. women cant play the same way men do because they are women. i they could, then we would see women dunking from the free throw line, but we dont do we? it's not about if women can play basketball, it's about do men care enough to watch women play? i was actually defending your points....

the rest of you.....are you kidding me? you bring out some stats that point out what? you did bother to come up with a point before you posted them right? here's the major flaws on your stats.

1) Shaq has been in the playoffs MORE than Kobe. and i dont mean just this year. hello? Shaq entered the NBA a good FOUR years before Kobe. when he was in Orlando, he was in his prime and OF COURSE, some numbers are going to be better because he has had MORE opportunities....

2) you say Shaq has outscored Kobe, has a higher shooting percentage and rebounds more than Kobe. are you serious? are you really trying to make a point with that? c'mon on man, you HAVE to do better than that....

Earth to Kobe-Haters, Shaq is a CENTER. Kobe is a GUARD. Shaq doesnt have any other shot, but a short hook and dunks. he is effective within 3 feet of the basket. in other words, 99% of his shot attempts are HIGH PERCENTAGE SHOTS. Kobe shoots from the outside a LOT more than Shaq which is why his shooting percentage was lower. give me a break.

plus, when does a GUARD OUTREBOUND a CENTER? i'll let you guys try to explain that.

finally, Kobe was the #2 option in the triangle offense behind guess who? SHAQ. of course Shaq is going to outscore him because he is the "centerpiece" of Phil's triangle offense. the offense was supposed to go thru him. plus he is shooting HIGHER PERCENTAGE shots. you people are silly.....

now, let me point out something in your "stats". according to your stats, Kobe has more ASSISTS than Shaq (Kobe is soooooo selfish isnt he?! the nerve of him passing to his teammates for scores more than Shaq!), plus Kobe has a better free throw percentage (never hear of hack-a-Kobe do you?), and more steals. hmmmm, those seem to be important numbers as well. how come you didnt highlight those?

your stats prove what? nothing. can your stats prove who is often the #1 OPTION for a game tying or game winning shot? who did it normally go to and who normally delivered? KOBE BRYANT. why not Shaq?

okay ticklingfeet4u, i will answer your silly question as long as you ANSWER MINE. Kobe Bryant had a good year of scoring, but unfortunately his team didnt make the playoffs and if you bothered to read an earlier post of mine, you would see WHY he didnt make the playoffs. and if you really think that you have sports knowledge and not just some person running off at the mouth incoherently, then i provide you with this quote from YOU. "I NEVER liked Michael Jordan because I am a HUGE Knicks fan.". says it all doesnt it? one of the greatest players of all time and you despise him. you seem to have a problem with guards dont you? you were probably running off at the mouth about Jordan much like you are doing against Kobe Bryant. now, you say Kobe will never win without Shaq. well, let's say someone like Kevin Garnett made the Lakers (a theory. you do know what a theory is right?). i would have to say that Laker team would win a title. Kobe and KG? who's going to stop them?

now, answer my question. why do you despise Kobe Bryant? before he cheated on his wife, did you hate Kobe Bryant? if so, why? now come up with good SPORTS reasons on why, since you know sooooooo much about sports (snicker...)

Sunriseticklee.....do you have any points? like i thought....NO.

people, people, people. you are so damn silly trying to prove crap that you cant prove. you actually tried to throw out a bunch of numbers that MADE NO REAL SENSE. honestly, did you really think that theory was going to fly? you actually tried to point out that Shaq scores more, has a higher shooting percentage and rebounds more than Kobe to prove why Shaq is better? you tried to compare key statistics of a GUARD and a CENTER, which are two totally different positions? plus, Shaq's career is longer than Kobe's which would help Shaq's numbers, but how about this, try measuring their stats when they were on the same team. do THAT for me. i need a good laugh....

and STILL, NO ONE has ever come up with a reason why they consider Kobe "arrogant" and "selfish". what EXACTLY did Kobe do to bring about these judgments? amazing that no one can ever come up with specifics. sad, sooo sad.....

 

[tickletoy3]

Stats dont lie.

the rest of you.....are you kidding me? you bring out some stats that point out what? you did bother to come up with a point before you posted them right? here's the major flaws on your stats.

1) Shaq has been in the playoffs MORE than Kobe. and i dont mean just this year. hello? Shaq entered the NBA a good FOUR years before Kobe. when he was in Orlando, he was in his prime and OF COURSE, some numbers are going to be better because he has had MORE opportunities....

These stats take every playoff game into account. They are the AVERAGE of every stat. So actually in effect, that would make Shaq's stats at a disadvantage (i.e. the longer you do something the more likely you are to fail). Instead of missing more because he has taken more shots, he has actually averaged higher.

2) you say Shaq has outscored Kobe, has a higher shooting percentage and rebounds more than Kobe. are you serious? are you really trying to make a point with that? c'mon on man, you HAVE to do better than that....

Umm I think ANY COACH in the world would establish these stats before making a decision about any player. Hello???

Earth to Kobe-Haters, Shaq is a CENTER. Kobe is a GUARD. Shaq doesnt have any other shot, but a short hook and dunks. he is effective within 3 feet of the basket. in other words, 99% of his shot attempts are HIGH PERCENTAGE SHOTS. Kobe shoots from the outside a LOT more than Shaq which is why his shooting percentage was lower. give me a break.

Doesn't matter whether it's two feet or 10 feet. A basket counts two points. Keep in mind too that for most of the games you point out that Shaq has played that Kobe didn't play, that Shaq was younger and often TRIPLED teamed while establishing these stats. Centers get that you know - the triple team defense. C'mon PT do better than that.

plus, when does a GUARD OUTREBOUND a CENTER? i'll let you guys try to explain that.

Granted I'll give you that one. Centers will get more rebounds. My point in this stat is that rebounds are one of the major statistics that coaches and assistants assess when establishing a player's worth.

finally, Kobe was the #2 option in the triangle offense behind guess who? SHAQ. of course Shaq is going to outscore him because he is the "centerpiece" of Phil's triangle offense. the offense was supposed to go thru him. plus he is shooting HIGHER PERCENTAGE shots. you people are silly.....

So Phil wanted to go to Shaq INSTEAD of Kobe because???

now, let me point out something in your "stats". according to your stats, Kobe has more ASSISTS than Shaq (Kobe is soooooo selfish isnt he?! the nerve of him passing to his teammates for scores more than Shaq!), plus Kobe has a better free throw percentage (never hear of hack-a-Kobe do you?), and more steals. hmmmm, those seem to be important numbers as well. how come you didnt highlight those?

And John Stockton has how many NBA rings??

your stats prove what? nothing. can your stats prove who is often the #1 OPTION for a game tying or game winning shot? who did it normally go to and who normally delivered? KOBE BRYANT. why not Shaq?

He was probably too exhausted from carrying the load the entire game. You did say Phil went to him with his offense structure didn't you?




people, people, people. you are so damn silly trying to prove crap that you cant prove. you actually tried to throw out a bunch of numbers that MADE NO REAL SENSE. honestly, did you really think that theory was going to fly? you actually tried to point out that Shaq scores more, has a higher shooting percentage and rebounds more than Kobe to prove why Shaq is better? you tried to compare key statistics of a GUARD and a CENTER, which are two totally different positions? plus, Shaq's career is longer than Kobe's which would help Shaq's numbers, but how about this, try measuring their stats when they were on the same team. do THAT for me. i need a good laugh....

I not only tried to point out that Shaq has better stats I did prove it. But Shaq haters never look at stats. Why? Maybe this is why Shaq was listed in Sports Illustrated as one of the most dominant players in NBA history.

These stats take into account when they were on the same team.

 

[Krokus]

comparing kobe to michael jordan? now thats a joke.

 

[primetime]

tickletoy, really, when you are comparing stats, to compare 2 guys who play different positions point out to what? why dont you compare Wilt Chamerlain's stats versus Shaq's? why dont you compare Kobe's stats to Michael Jordan's? that will be a better use of showing stats. you are only pointing out OBVIOUS stats. when you point out things like "Shaq's shooting percentage is higher" what does it really prove? Shaq has no other offense but under the basket. he BETTER have a better shooting percentage. you might as well compare Shaq's shooting percentage to Michael Jordan. what does that prove?

as for your comment about playoff "averages", did it ever occur to you that the more chances at it you have, the better you can raise your average? if a guy makes 80 out of 100 baskets over 10 years, then another person makes 15 out of 20 baskets in 2 years, the guy who lasted longer is the better player? how about this? to make it FAIR, why dont you go dig up Shaq and Kobe's playoff stats when they played TOGETHER. that would be a lot more interesting.

as for your comments about Shaq being the #1 option in Phil's offense. you know why? because Phil wanted to make it that way. the Laker team was built around Shaq. but there were times when Phil had Kobe at the #1 option during games. during clutch time, who does Phil go to? Shaq or Kobe? why? not because he wants Kobe to at least touch the ball, it's because Kobe is the baseball equivalent of a closer. plus, if he gets fouled, he is more likely to make his free throws. speaking of which, i like how you "left out" the assists, steals and free throw arguments. why is that? you brought them up, why leave them out?

your whole point about stats prove nothing. it only tells me that you would select Shaq over Michael Jordan. would you? now before people get in a tizzy, i am not comparing Jordan to Kobe. Kobe doesnt even come close to Jordan. BUT, Jordan plays the same position as Kobe, so if you are going to compare stats, you might as well compare Jordan's to Shaq's.....

you know, how come NO ONE has ever said what EXACTLY Kobe did to be a "selfish" and "arrogant" basketball player? because you cant......until anyone does, your blind hatred of Kobe looks like just that. blind, unwarranted hatred.

 

[PrincessAshley]

These posts made me laugh

 

[tickletoy3]

Jordan, Wilt or anybody else has nothing to do with this equation. We're talking about Shaq's stats vs Kobe's stats. Fact is, both guys were on the court at the same time in the playoffs, doing their same job in the playoffs and Shaq's stats were better. Period. Take it anyway you want, slice it anyway you want. It still won't change. Fact is fact.

You wanted to hear about assists? Ok, let's talk assists. Kobe has more assists. Period. Fact is fact. In fact - Kobe has a grand whopping total of 36 more assists during his playoff career than Shaq. Could this be because as you like to point out.. guards are SUPPOSED to pass the ball?? To me, assists are an 'extra'. They are nice and always good to have.. but what do they really mean to winning championships? How many titles does John Stockton have because of his assists?

Since you want to talk about other stats.. ok blocked shots? Not even close. Shaq has 285 more blocked shots than Kobe. This stat doesn't matter if you are a center, guard, forward or towel boy. Blocked shots simply mean you try to block the shot of an opposing player. Period. And that's everyone's job on the team right?

Ok, let's look at another glaring stat. 3 point shots? Shaq has never even attempted a 3 pt shot in his playoff career. Kobe on the other hand is a mind-boggling 121 out of 375. Hello? And you wonder why his shooting percentage is lower than Shaq's? And just think of all those shiney new points he would bought had he actually hit the shot. wow.

And granted, centers will usually be your 'rebound' guy. But they don't own exclusive rights to rebounding. Did Dennis Rodman play center? Why bring this up? Because rebounds win championships. Plain and simple. I think it was Pat Riley who coined the phrase "no glass no brass" simply meaning no boards and you won't win squat.

And just for the record, Shaq is roughly 50% from the line during the playoffs. Not that bad for someone who opposing teams deliberately put on the line.

Ok. To me, bottom line in all this stat quoting is this.. on any given day, any given time, given their respective positions - Shaq can more than hang with Kobe. Period. Just as much if not more. Stats prove it. Not bad for an overweight, lazy, out of shape guy who is 6 years older than Kobe. Yet stats prove he can hang with him if not more on any given day.

The greatest coach in NBA history had both players on his team at the same time. He could have built his offense around Kobe. Afterall, he did it with Jordan, right? Being a center doesn't get you an automatic vote. Jackson chose Shaq. You do the math.

Now to rightfully give Kobe his props. He has potential to be one of the great ones. He had a sparkling high school career and became the youngest All-Star in history. Period. That says a lot in itself.

Shaq has made some arrogant remarks in public and yes at times, Shaq has been disrespectful in his own ways. But you have to admit it was pretty arrogant of Kobe to come out of nowhere as a rookie and say you want to be the highest paid player on the team. I know - every player has said that one time or another. Who wouldn't want that? It wasn't what Kobe said - it was his timing and handling of saying it. You just don't show up as a rookie and totally disrespect a proven superstar who is the leader of the team in that manner. That alone is one reason I don't care for Kobe. It wasn't what he said - it was the manner of how he went about saying it. I would feel the same of any player who showed up in San Antonio and said the same in regards to Tim Duncan. It's just totally disrespectful, arrogant and unprofessional coming from a rookie.

Why do people hate Kobe? That's a good question. I think it has to do with what primetime has said all along. Shaq is 'media-friendly' and Kobe just plain isn't.

I personally don't like Kobe because of what I stated above. But that's me and I'm entitled to that opinion.

Shaq knows how to handle the press. Shaq knows how to handle himself off the court. Kobe has already crashed and burned on one account. That's why you never hear Kobe say anything in the press. Would you want to go 2 for 2 in the flame department?

Shaq is one step ahead of him on the court as stats prove and Shaq is one step ahead of him off the court. That gives my vote for Shaq over Kobe any time.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Prime , I never trashed Michael Jordan. Always respected him as a player but hated him because he always seem to beat the Knicks. That is not trash talking. Kobe is another story. You want to know why tickletoy3 is comparing stats? You said it yourself that Kobe was better than Shaq. How is that Prime? Explain that. You did not ask him to compare Jordan to Kobe. You said Kobe was better than Shaq. The numbers don't bare that out. So how is Kobe better? Does he shoot for a higher percentage? No. Does he score more points? No. Does he block more shots? No. Does he out rebound Shaq? No. And Kobe has only one more assist per game than Shaq( in the play-offs ). Which means that Shaq does distribute the ball making other players get into the game as a center. But Kobe is a guard, he is suppose to be making the players around him better. At 4.4 assists for a guard that does not make players around you better. But Shaq at 3.1 for a center is making players around him better. You stated that once Shaq gets the ball he shoots it and that it does not go back out. The numbers don't bare that statement out. Oh, and by the way, you stated that you Shaq has been in the league longer so you can't compare stats. That is garbage. You are comparing averages not actually points. So who is not using his head now. Like I said earlier, don't argue sports with me unless you can bring something to the table. We are all fallible and I will give you that. But don't make us out to be idiots because you have a hard-on for Kobe

 

[primetime]

silly, silly people. the whole reason why i bring up the flaws in those stats is because Kobe and Shaq do not play the same position. what sense does it make to compare Kobe and Shaq's stats? you might as well compare Kobe's stats to Tim Duncan's. Timmy will have more rebounds, probably higher shooting percentage, more blocked shots, etc. how many good centers will Kobe actually outrebound? like you mentioned, comparing assists isnt that good because guards are supposed to have higher assists. well damn it, CENTERS are supposed to have higher rebounds than GUARDS. Shaq LIVES 3 feet from the hoop so he BETTER have a higher shooting percentage. again, what the hell are you trying to point out?! how about these stats. how many GAME WINNING SHOTS have Kobe made compared to Shaq? FIND that one for me. who will make more critical free throws towards the end of games? find that one for me. who will actually work hard in the offseason and dedicate himself to improving his game, not just relying on his sheer size? find that one for me.

again, you are trying to point out Shaq is a better basketball player based on a few stats. does Shaq play defense? dont kid yourself when you answer that. since you brought up blocked shots, how many times has Shaq outblocked Dikembe Mutombo in a season? and to write something as ridiculous as "Blocked shots simply mean you try to block the shot of an opposing player. Period. And that's everyone's job on the team right?" has got to be one of the most pathetic attempts of making a point as i have ever seen. tell me, how many blocked shots do you see in a game? you act like it's a common thing. really, how many guards do you see blocking shots on a regular basis?

so, since you say Shaq is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant based on STATS alone, do me a favor. compare Jordan and Shaq's career playoff stats based on shooting percentage, scoring and rebounds. can you do that? or do you realize that will will look like a fool for saying Shaq is better than Jordan because 3 stat categories of Shaq is better than Jordan's?

wait a second, why are we comparing who is the better basketball player? can someone find my quote where i have actually written Kobe Bryant is a better basketball player than Shaq in terms of statistics. find it please. quote me and give me time and date. i'm curious. my posts have been about Kobe working hard in the offseason and not hurting his team with laziness...so, find my quote, since the "sports genius" ticklingfeet4fu claims i wrote it...

again tickletoy, compare the stats of Kobe and Shaq when they played together in Lakerland. couldnt hurt right? why are you even mentioning 3 point shots? you know good and damn well that Shaq is not a 3 point shooter. so, if i was running rampant about "Kobe is a better 3 point shooter than Shaq!" your response would be "who cares? Shaq doesnt attempt 3 point shots..." that's my response to your "rebounding" and "shooting percentage" stats. give me a freakin break. your stats are doing what? Shaq is still fat and out of shape. Shaq is still one of the most arrogant players ever to play the game. if i am an owner and i have an aging, overweight, lazy, disrespectful player compared to a loyal, hard working, YOUNGER player, guess who i am going to choose?

one more thing tickletoy, you say because Kobe Bryant said "i want to be the highest paid player" you based your ENTIRE PERCEPTION of Kobe Bryant being arrogant and selfish on that? that's it? meanwhile, Shaq always says "i am the most dominant player ever!" "give me the ball!" "Pay me!!" "i will always do what's best for me!" "my teammates dont pass me the ball" and you dont consider him just as selfish and arrogant? Shaq even said his HEAT teammates didnt pass him the ball during Game 7 against the Pistons. you talk about me being on Kobe's jock? my goodness man, you are sucking on Shaq pretty hard. i have heard WORSE coming from NBA players and that is what you claim makes Kobe selfish and arrogant. pretty sad, pretty sad.....

and last, but not least, ticklingfeet4u, why do you even bother posting? you have still yet to tell me why you hate Kobe. is it that hard to come up with something? oh, i know, "he cheated on his wife.." uh, did you start hating Kobe then or before? c'mon on now...i know you are a "sports guru" and can answer a simple question. but then again, after reading your posts on these threads, is it any wonder why people giggle at you when you talk about sports? oh, dont forget, find when i actually wrote Kobe is a better basketball player statistically than Shaq. can you do that sports genius? c'mon on now..you can do it. i believe in your sports knowledge!!!!

as for your other points, if you can call them that, your quote "You stated that once Shaq gets the ball he shoots it and that it does not go back out." can you find that for me please? when did i say that? as for playoff averages, hey genius, did it ever occur to you that when Shaq was younger, his numbers were sky high during his first playoffs series? Shaq has had a much longer time to build his playoff averages compared to Kobe. all i am asking is, compare Shaq and Kobe's stats when they played TOGETHER. what is so difficult about that? i am really curious to see the numbers when they played on the same team. i really like this quote from you. "But don't make us out to be idiots because you have a hard-on for Kobe." i dont have to. you already do it yourself by posting against me with silly posts.....

 

[tickletoy3]

First off, I never mentioned a "jock". I don't even go there. If that's your thing go for it. But leave me out.

Now back to our posting..Just a bit testy are we primetime? I show a few real proven facts that say Shaq can hang with Kobe anytime, anyday, any court and you go gaagaa. Calm down please.

To try and address your well.. whatever you want to call it "rantings". First, the proven stats ARE when Shaq and Kobe played on the same team. Ok? Secondly, yes Shaq may have played a few more years. BUT, in theory his stats would be LESS than Kobe's. Why? The longer you keep playing you only DECREASE your chances. Ever hear the saying "Gambler's don't know when to quit?? Where do you think the logic came from? So if anything, Kobe should actually have even better stats!! Example: You shoot 50 free throws. I shoot 10. Who's going to have the higher percentage? Unless you are Rick Barry it damn well better be me. Do you finally get this???

These stats are AVERAGES not totals. So you could have a really crappy year and a really good year then this stat would reflect it evenly. And finally the years that Shaq did play that Kobe didn't.. wasn't he TRIPLE and DOUBLE TEAMED on a REGULAR basis every single night of those years??? Wouldn't that yet again - LESSEN his chances of good stats?? The fact that Kobe played less should actually do him a favor in stats. Stats are only good if you can actually understand them.

And lastly, the fact it is even close in stats is laughable. You're talking about the next leader of the mighty Lakers, the man who doesn't need Shaq OR Phil Jackson. The man who management says "We will do anything to keep Kobe Bryant".. yet we are actually comparing his stats to a lazy, overweight, can't-shoot-a-freethrow selfish old man?? And get this.. in the three major categories of any basketball player (points avg., field goal pct. and rebounds) Shaq actually has better stats in the playoffs when the games count most. I have to laugh.

To address your other "ranting".. do I base my entire opinion of Kobe Bryant based on his "I want to be the highest paid player" remark? YES. Why? Because I don't keep up with college ball and never watch high school. Soooo.. what was my very FIRST IMPRESSION of the rookie named Kobe Bryant?? You got it. Here he comes from nowhere and pretty much acts as if Shaq isn't on the court. Arrogance personified. First impressions always last the longest. And honestly.. he hasn't done one thing to change that impression since. He's a good basketball player - I never said he wasn't. In my opinion he's just not as good as he thinks he is. Until he changes that opinion then YES that will be the opinion I have of him.

Now if the Lakers did get him some help and he led them to a championship.. then that opinion may change. He would then be a proven leader and have some maturity about him.

I'll even go one and address your humorous, comical statement about game winning shots. That statement alone describes exactly why you are a Kobe fan. I really honestly believe he actually thinks with the same attitude. Listen closely. THERE ARE NO GAME WINNING SHOTS. Every shot during the course of a game counts. Period. You can never blame a win - or a loss - on a single player. Period. ANY COACH IN HISTORY will tell you this. Write it down. Learn it. It's something to teach kids when they learn sports so they actually learn about TEAMWORK.

And to answer your last point.. if I were starting a franchise tomorrow.. who would I want.. Kobe or Shaq? Again I have to laugh. Were you really serious with this question??. Let me explain why and it has nothing to do with my dislike of Kobe.

(1) The biggest reason you said yourself.. Shaq is "media friendly."

Why should that matter? People will buy tickets to see Shaq play. People will buy Shaq merchandise because of this reason. People will buy newspapers to read what Shaq says. Cable networks and radio stations will buy rights to Shaq games to watch him play and hear his remarks.. see a pattern here? As you said yourself.. it's ALL ABOUT MONEY.

Bottom line is Shaq will make you as an owner and himself money.. Kobe can't.

Kobe's public relations is toast and he doesn't have the players on his team to make him look good anymore and give what skills he does have a chance to be showcased. He doesn't have a 300 pound monster under the basket to draw triple and double teams on a nightly basis anymore to allow him to score like Jordan.. so in short, Shaq will make you money and Kobe won't make you anywhere as much as Shaq.

Yes he demands it (PAY ME!!) - but he brings it back in. You want proof?? Thousands of his jerseys sold out on NBA.com just minutes after his signing was announced. Again.. we're talking dollars here. McDonalds. Nestle. Pepsi. Shoe contracts. Toys.. the list keep growing.. Dollars for Shaq, dollars for the owner, dollars for the Miami Heat, dollars for the city of Miami and most importantly dollars for the sport of pro basketball. To play in the Finals you will either be playing against Shaq or have to play against him to get there. Again.. MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY. Just like the Million Dollar Man's theme. Now do you understand why Shaq says "PAY ME!!" As an owner he always pays you back. And then some.

Meanwhile Kobe can't even keep a McDonald's commercial.

Think about that for a second.

Now who would you want if you were an NBA owner?? And THAT'S why Shaq is a "FRANCHISE" and Kobe wants to be one.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

silly, silly people. the whole reason why i bring up the flaws in those stats is because Kobe and Shaq do not play the same position. what sense does it make to compare Kobe and Shaq's stats? you might as well compare Kobe's stats to Tim Duncan's. Timmy will have more rebounds, probably higher shooting percentage, more blocked shots, etc. how many good centers will Kobe actually outrebound? like you mentioned, comparing assists isnt that good because guards are supposed to have higher assists. well damn it, CENTERS are supposed to have higher rebounds than GUARDS. Shaq LIVES 3 feet from the hoop so he BETTER have a higher shooting percentage. again, what the hell are you trying to point out?! how about these stats. how many GAME WINNING SHOTS have Kobe made compared to Shaq? FIND that one for me. who will make more critical free throws towards the end of games? find that one for me. who will actually work hard in the offseason and dedicate himself to improving his game, not just relying on his sheer size? find that one for me.

again, you are trying to point out Shaq is a better basketball player based on a few stats. does Shaq play defense? dont kid yourself when you answer that. since you brought up blocked shots, how many times has Shaq outblocked Dikembe Mutombo in a season? and to write something as ridiculous as "Blocked shots simply mean you try to block the shot of an opposing player. Period. And that's everyone's job on the team right?" has got to be one of the most pathetic attempts of making a point as i have ever seen. tell me, how many blocked shots do you see in a game? you act like it's a common thing. really, how many guards do you see blocking shots on a regular basis?

so, since you say Shaq is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant based on STATS alone, do me a favor. compare Jordan and Shaq's career playoff stats based on shooting percentage, scoring and rebounds. can you do that? or do you realize that will will look like a fool for saying Shaq is better than Jordan because 3 stat categories of Shaq is better than Jordan's?

wait a second, why are we comparing who is the better basketball player? can someone find my quote where i have actually written Kobe Bryant is a better basketball player than Shaq in terms of statistics. find it please. quote me and give me time and date. i'm curious. my posts have been about Kobe working hard in the offseason and not hurting his team with laziness...so, find my quote, since the "sports genius" ticklingfeet4fu claims i wrote it...

again tickletoy, compare the stats of Kobe and Shaq when they played together in Lakerland. couldnt hurt right? why are you even mentioning 3 point shots? you know good and damn well that Shaq is not a 3 point shooter. so, if i was running rampant about "Kobe is a better 3 point shooter than Shaq!" your response would be "who cares? Shaq doesnt attempt 3 point shots..." that's my response to your "rebounding" and "shooting percentage" stats. give me a freakin break. your stats are doing what? Shaq is still fat and out of shape. Shaq is still one of the most arrogant players ever to play the game. if i am an owner and i have an aging, overweight, lazy, disrespectful player compared to a loyal, hard working, YOUNGER player, guess who i am going to choose?

one more thing tickletoy, you say because Kobe Bryant said "i want to be the highest paid player" you based your ENTIRE PERCEPTION of Kobe Bryant being arrogant and selfish on that? that's it? meanwhile, Shaq always says "i am the most dominant player ever!" "give me the ball!" "Pay me!!" "i will always do what's best for me!" "my teammates dont pass me the ball" and you dont consider him just as selfish and arrogant? Shaq even said his HEAT teammates didnt pass him the ball during Game 7 against the Pistons. you talk about me being on Kobe's jock? my goodness man, you are sucking on Shaq pretty hard. i have heard WORSE coming from NBA players and that is what you claim makes Kobe selfish and arrogant. pretty sad, pretty sad.....

and last, but not least, ticklingfeet4u, why do you even bother posting? you have still yet to tell me why you hate Kobe. is it that hard to come up with something? oh, i know, "he cheated on his wife.." uh, did you start hating Kobe then or before? c'mon on now...i know you are a "sports guru" and can answer a simple question. but then again, after reading your posts on these threads, is it any wonder why people giggle at you when you talk about sports? oh, dont forget, find when i actually wrote Kobe is a better basketball player statistically than Shaq. can you do that sports genius? c'mon on now..you can do it. i believe in your sports knowledge!!!!

as for your other points, if you can call them that, your quote "You stated that once Shaq gets the ball he shoots it and that it does not go back out." can you find that for me please? when did i say that? as for playoff averages, hey genius, did it ever occur to you that when Shaq was younger, his numbers were sky high during his first playoffs series? Shaq has had a much longer time to build his playoff averages compared to Kobe. all i am asking is, compare Shaq and Kobe's stats when they played TOGETHER. what is so difficult about that? i am really curious to see the numbers when they played on the same team. i really like this quote from you. "But don't make us out to be idiots because you have a hard-on for Kobe." i dont have to. you already do it yourself by posting against me with silly posts.....

Answer is simple - he is a selfish player. It is about Kobe and nobody else with him. He is a guard who tries to make himself better and not the team. I didn't know guards did that. He pads his stats for the good of Kobe and is not a team player. Good enough explaination for you? If you don't want the players compared prime then don't bring it up. Kobe went nowhere where as Shaq was in the Eastern Conference Finals.Where was Kobe? He was the reason the Lakers failed. BTW, Phil will not change anything.

 

[natural tickler]

Prime, look, it is obvious we are ALL beating a dead horse here. So here is my attempt to end this stuff, and talk about things more worthy to talk about. It is obvious you are a Kobe fan. A lot of us are not. We do not owe you an explanation why we do. We don't have to like him, period. The way you make it sound as if Kobe can do no wrong. You act like Shaq is forever a bad person. Yet and still you keep forgetting both players needed each other to win. THAT should be the main point. Forget about who is better, the stats, all of that stuff. They needed each other. The way you keep shoving Kobe down our throats to make us like the guy is an embarrassment. You are entitled to your opinion, just like we are. Or maybe you are just in denial about his character, as flawed as it is. The blinders are on buddy, you need to get rid of them. Maybe what you need is a long sustained run of Laker failure to get you to see the point. Nobody here said he wasn't a great player, because he is a great player. He is just a self-centered, selfish one.
It seems to me, that you talk out the side of your neck, without the benefit of thinking before you talk. They both needed each other, point blank.

Hopefully this ends it. If not, then you have a problem, not me

 

[primetime]

first of all, some of you really need to see what this thread was initially about. this whole thread started with my bashing of Shaq. NOWHERE in the initial post did i EVER, EVER, EVER say Kobe Bryant is a better basketball player than Shaq. now kiddies, go back and read the very first thing i posted.

see, the problem with people is that they dont READ clearly. for some strange reason, people have responded to this post as though i have put Kobe Bryant on a pedestal. is that what i really wrote? or was it that i was bashing Shaq? which is it? Reading Comprehension 101 folks, Reading Comprehension 101. what IS this thread about?

now, about me being a Kobe fan. yes, i am a Kobe fan. you know why? he wears the purple & gold. had Kobe left last summer to sign with the Clippers (of all people...) do you honestly think i would be on any sports messageboards defending him? i am a fan of the ORGANIZATION, not a player. i like players, but i am a LAKER fan. i will do or die with the LAKER team. guess what? i was just as crazy as a fan when we had players such as Vlade Divac, Sedale Threatt, Elden Campbell, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, and an aging Byron Scott. i was there when Magic tried his comeback. i was there when Byron Scott fouled up the last shot for the Lakers to beat the Suns in the first round of 1993. i was there when the Detroit Pistons swept by the injury plagued Lakers. i was there when Randy Pfund was the head coach. i was there when Shaq crooned to the LA crowd "CAAAAAAN YOU DIG IT??!!" what am i trying to point out here? i am a LAKER FAN. period. end of story.

now, hopefully you see where i stand. when Shaquille Oneal left the Lakers, it broke my heart. then the ingrate decided to rip the organization i love. do i wish Shaq was a Laker? OF COURSE. but he's not. do i like the fact that he blames it on Kobe Bryant along with the rest of the country? of course not. unlike you people, i actually try to find the facts. you should do that sometime. if you did, you would see Kobe Bryant is NOT the cause for Shaq leaving. like tickletoy finally admitted, it was because of money. so, to see him lose in Miami was way too sweeeeeeeet!!! that fat bastard deserved to lose.

the Laker's failure to make the playoffs was NOT Kobe's fault. again, if any of you claim you know reading comprehension, go back and read my post where i CLEARLY told you why the Lakers had a bad season. but i know, you're not going to read it and come up with some dumb logic..you've been doing it this entire thread.

so when you bring up stats, my initial response was "WHY?" what the hell point are you trying to make? it is still ridiculous as Shaq and Kobe play TWO different positions. how can you compare stats of two different positions? that was a very dumb argument. it makes no sense. you pointed out stats that would AUTOMATICALLY favor Shaq because he is a CENTER. one of the best to ever play the game and you tried to compare KEY stats of a CENTER to a GUARD? what the hell were you smoking trying to come up with that logic?

i also notice that none of you ever proved my point. i almost choked on my own laughter when you people say "primetime said....--fill in the blank--". i challenged each of you to find direct quotes where i said those kind of things. what do i get? non answers. i dont think any of you actually know what point i am bringing up. again, i noticed the whole "Shaq-Jordan" comparison point i made never went answered. you know why? because you will look like a fool trying to say "Shaq is better than Jordan in those 3 statistics, so Shaq must be the better basketball player." you cant even defend your own logic.

now, ticklingfeet4fu, do you realize how much fun i had toying with your mind? man, i am STILL waiting for you to come up with a point. do you even KNOW why you dislike Kobe? tell me, how did you actually come to the conclusion that Kobe is selfish. i already discussed why i think Shaq is a arrogant player. i actually gave examples on why. you STILL just come back with a blanket statement on Kobe being selfish. guess what? most of the media says the same thing and i still have yet to hear what EXACTLY Kobe does to become selfish. to me, you will always be that type of person who just spouts off at the mouth about sports and dont have a clue on what you're talking about.

tickletoy, if you base your entire opinion on ONE statement about a person, how is that fair that you dont have the same opinion about Shaq, who has done MORE than enough to prove he's arrogant? is that really fair?

natural tickler, you know i like ya. however, you do need to go re-read the original post in this thread. it is NOT about my "liking" of Kobe Bryant. it is about a selfish player who left the Lakers, and blamed it on everyone but himself as for the reason why, when his own words and actions prove otherwise. besides, where do you see me trying to make you Kobe fans? i am simply trying to point out the hatred towards this guy is unwarranted. if no one can come up with any logical reasoning on why they hate Kobe, then it is UNWARRANTED isnt it? plus, i already damn well said they needed each other. again, go RE-READ my posts and you will see me say it.

one more thing, have ANY of you ever seen a post by me where i defended Kobe's character? did any of you read a post by me that Kobe is a "saint"? NO. but to me, Kobe is NOT a selfish, arrogant player. Kobe never says anything (except that one time tickletoy) that would characterize him as being more arrogant than any other player who speaks to the media. Kobe usually leads the team in assists. hell Kobe Bryant can make it a mission to pass to his teammates all game long and what will that get him? accusations of trying to throw a game. explain to me why the Staples Center crowd OFTEN chant Kobe's name. can someone explain to me why even when Shaq was a Laker in the latter years, did the "MVP" chant rain down towards Kobe Bryant INSTEAD of Shaq? people are going to hate Kobe to hate Kobe. they have no justification (as evident by tickllingfeet4fu) towards their dislike, other than being a Kobe hater. can anyone explain to me why MOST Laker fans dislike Shaq now, especially after a full season of him ripping the organization? for ANYONE to call themselves a Laker fan and hope to see Kobe fail, is NOT a Laker fan. get off our wagon, because in a few short years (maybe even next season), the Lakers will once again reign over the NBA. mark it down. you know it's coming.....

 

[tickletoy3]

I will admit that Kobe has gone up a notch on the scale after admitting he did want to play with Phil Jackson. Maybe a bit of that maturity is beginning to sink in. I think Kobe now realizes he won't win anything by himself and he does need a team to help him achieve his possibilities. Phil Jackson can help with some guidance in that direction.

It's not personal with Kobe. I strongly dislike any athlete who shows up as a rookie and thinks they own the world. Jeff George did the same and I couldn't stand him. As a ROOKIE he demanded more money than Joe Montana (yeh that's a laugh huh?). And now most people are saying Jeff who? I just can't stand players like that. They are totally unproven except for college stats - if they even played college - and they act like the league should engrave their likeness into the logo.

Shaq is arrogant. I never denied that. He can be as selfish as any other player. I can only add that Shaq has the qualifications to back up his arrogance (see my last post about why he is a franchise and Kobe wants to be one). When you triple your owner's income you have a right to be loud about it. When you have world titles you have a right to be loud. Not everyone earns one of those, you know.

It's ironic given the starter of this thread, but "Primetime" Deon Sanders used to grate me to no end. BUT I always had respect for the man. He could back up his loudness. If you can walk the walk you have a right to talk the talk. As i said, world titles give you a right to be loud. I give Deon his props. The man could play some football but I do think it's time for him to hang it up.

Give primetime his props, he does show team loyalty. As the Seinfeld joke goes.. the man loves a uniform, doesn't matter who's in it. You're not booing players anymore, you're booing uniforms. I always thought that was one of the better of his routines.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Prime, Do I owe you an explaination? I don't owe you a reason why I don't like Kobe. I don't like a man who CHEATS on his wife. Then turns around and tried place blame on everyone else. Then the dedicated Kobe turns around and blames Karl Malone for making a pass at his wife. Where was that dedication a year prior? Tell me prime. Where was his dedication then? You are busy sucking his jock and he is cheating on you too.

 

[primetime]

exactly my point ticklingfeet4fu, EXACTLY my point. you do OWE me an explanation. you cant go on and on about hating Kobe Bryant and not even explaining why. everyone seems to go around and spews all this crap about Kobe, but NO ONE can ever come up with a SPECIFIC reason why they hate Kobe Bryant. most people get their opinion thru the media. you're probably one of them as well. one thing is for sure, you have no reading comprehension skills. did you hate Kobe BEFORE he cheated on his wife? if not, then hate Magic Johnson AND Michael Jordan. they too cheated on their wives....

as for the Karl Malone incident. so, because Kobe cheated, any man that makes a pass at his wife should have his blessing? Kobe made a mistake. what, the man cant correct his mistakes? i guess not Mr. Judge and Jury. Kobe is in the doghous and trying to be a better husband, but because he cheated Karl gets free shots at his wife? you and i both know that what Kobe did is what any man would do for his wife. oh, that reminds me, you should hate Karl Malone now. he's married isnt he? why is he flirting with another woman? tell me sports "guru", do you hate Karl Malone now? i know, i know, you wont answer it because it would make you look like a babbling human being with no real knowledge of anything but running off at the mouth......typical.....

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Like I said, I don't owe you an explaination. You said it yourself, he cheated on his wife and he is a role model. Well you can keep your role model. You have been trashing Shaq. That is okay but because you like Kobe everyone owes you an explaination as to why they don't like him. I never (and don't want to know) asked why you don't like Shaq. But you thrashed Shaq by calling him "Fat Boy" in this thread. Correct me if I am wrong, didn't he help you win a couple of championships?

 

[primetime]

okay, now i get it. ticklingfeet4fu, you have to be the biggest....(i wont write what i want to say because this is a moderated board)......i have EVER known. do you even BOTHER to read anything? why do i dislike Shaq? let me give you a helpful hint. go back and READ my prior posts. why i dont like Shaq is all over them. my goodness man!!!! PLUS, WHEN did i ever say Kobe was a role model? WHEN???!!! and you want us to believe you know sports???!!!! my 11 year old niece can put a better argument together than you.

i am not writing to have people love Kobe Bryant. but, the hatred towards this man by the media and fans is unwarranted and unjustified. why do you think i asked the question about why you dislike Kobe Bryant? i want people who continue to blast Kobe Bryant to come up with a LOGICAL reason why they dislike Kobe and call him "arrogant" and "selfish". the only thing you come up with is the fact he cheated on his wife. yes he f**ked up. yes, he shouldnt have done it. yes, he's a big idiot for cheating on his wife. but for crying out loud, that's the REASON why people should dislike Kobe Bryant? why is it that people still LOVE Michael Jordan, who CHEATED on HIS WIFE, but hate Kobe Bryant? you even said you despise Jordan simply because you are a Knicks fan, NOT because he cheated on his wife. so why not hate Jordan?

man, quit while you're behind. you make no sense and your arguments are ridiculous. you are embarrassing yourself by claiming you know sports which it is very apparant you dont. you cant even answer simple questions and i find your reading comprehension skills to be absolutely deplorable. when you figure out how to debate logically then post something in return.

to others who despise Kobe Bryant, then refuse to answer the question as to why. ask yourself. "why DO i hate Kobe Bryant? can i come up with any justifiable reason as to why i think Kobe is the most evil man behind Satan himself?" if you cant and just flat out refuse to answer the questions, then couldnt people think you hate Kobe for no justifiable reason? is that really fair towards another human being? think about it.........

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Answer this question Prime, when did I say I love Michael Jordan? Your 11 year old niece should then be arguing for you if you think she is that intelligent. BTW ,you can say that I don't have basis of my arguements but then again you make very little sense to most of us which is the reason why people have basically avoided this thread. The only dumb ones has been you and I who have argued this to the point of nausea. You don't think I make sense and that is okay. You make good points but you still won't give credit where credit is due. You are always right aren't you Prime. Well okay Prime. Let's build a statue for Kobe. He is the greatest player to ever live. He is the best ever. I have never seen better. Let's all take turns kissing the ground he walks on because he is the greatest. Shaq sucks, Jordan sucks, Malone sucks, Bird sucks, Chamberlain sucks, Jabbar sucks, Johnson sucks. They should all bow to Kobe as we all should. Because Prime says he is great. There are you happy Prime? You are right and your 11 year old niece is right and we are all wrong. A little advice though, if you want to debate and that is fine then you should not insult us when we have a difference of an opinion than you do. There is no debate if you are right and the world is wrong.

 

[primetime]

no, i insult when it becomes painful to read responses that make no sense. when you post, do you read my responses or do you just write, hoping something, anything, sticks? case in point. you wrote...."Answer this question Prime, when did I say I love Michael Jordan?"....now, here's what i wrote in the post right before yours......"you even said you despise Jordan simply because you are a Knicks fan, NOT because he cheated on his wife." now, do you see the fundamental differences in what you responded to what i wrote? when did i ever say you loved Jordan? that is why i question your reading comprehension skills.

another problem with you is that you say i claim Kobe is the greatest. now, just as a helpful hint in the art of debating, i asked you when i have ever wrote that? now, your job (remember, this is a debate) is to find my post that SPECIFICALLY says i claimed Kobe is the greatest. see, you have to try to prove me wrong. like how i made you look silly in the first paragraph.

another thing is, you REALLY, REALLY need to comprehend what i wrote before you respond. the whole reason why i put my niece in is because she can make SOUND arguments compared to yours. if you EVER want to debate sports with a guy who actually knows sports, then you have to be careful how you respond. if this was a court case, lawyers would eat you alive. i have never claimed Kobe is the greatest. i am simply asking why hate Kobe? no one has come up with anything. you cant even come up with an answer. if me and you were debating this in front of a live television audience, i would destroy you and really make you look silly.

one more thing, you wrote...."There is no debate if you are right and the world is wrong."...... well then, when would there ever be a debate? correct me if i am wrong, but debates are caused by differences in opinion.... you really need to make sense when you respond. now, can you answer the question? did you hate Kobe BEFORE he cheated on his wife? simple question.....

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Then debate with your 11 year old niece. Shut up and keep it moving. If you are going to be insulting then don't waste my time. BTW, when you capitalize your I's and start capitalizing your sentences, then maybe I will listen to you on your art of debate. BTW, I also never liked Kobe before cheating or after to answer your question.

 

[tickletoy3]

Please please gentlemen.. you are giving me a headache! Let's all take a deep breath and remember we are all friends here.

I don't like Kobe and never have. I have made my reasons clear. I think Kobe over-rates himself, has a problem with teammates who might possibly overshadow him and has a problem with authority figures who know a little more about the game than he thinks he does. That's why I dislike Kobe.

On the other hand, I think Kobe has great athletic ability and when he channels that ability towards the greater of the team then he's a great player. Kobe can make great shots and make great shots under pressure. I never denied any of that. It's just that I feel if he played with the same intensity that he uses during those 'great shots', there would be no need for a 'great shot'.

My reasoning behind quoting Shaq's stats vs Kobe's stats was not to prove Shaq was a greater player. That can never be done with stats alone simply because those two play different positions. You can't compare a running back's rushing yardage vs a quarterbacks - or a quarterback's passing yardage vs a running backs. That's common sense.

My main purpose was to expose Shaq's worth to the team vs Kobe's. Laker management, Laker fans and any Shaq haters always want to point out Shaq's weaknesses - he has no outside shot range and he can't hit free throws. Yet combine those two qualities and all his others (rebounds, field goal pct., pts per game avg) and Shaq more than holds his own for the team. Yet all you hear from Shaq haters is Shaq is overweight, lazy, out of shape and is egotistical. They refuse to quote stats other than his free throw percentage (which btw is 50% during the playoffs). As I stated earlier, stats prove that Shaq can hang with Kobe any time, any court.

Stats prove that Shaq more than holds his own for a team's worth. That can't be disputed. You might not like the man's work ethics or his lifestyle - but you have to admit the man is worth his value to a team.

I know Miami lost but just ask Dwayne Wade if he would rather have Shaq or play a season without him. I think any sports fan knows the answer to that question. Shaq makes life a ton easier for guards. And I've already stated in an earlier post why Shaq is a franchise and Kobe wants to be one.

 

[primetime]

ticklingfeet4fu, dont be mad because my niece is smarter than you. you are now showing the typical signs of a man who has been beaten. you try to find anything to attack me on, other than the topic. dont you think i realize that i dont "capitalize" my I's and capitalize my sentences? c'mon on man, do you really think this messageboard is an official literary document? every other messageboard i visit results in the same thing. i absolutely destroy a person's argument and the only thing they got left is "you don't capitalize your I's!!!". but yet, my sentence structure and grammar are fine.....and by the way, now that you FINALLY answered the question, if you hated Kobe before he cheated on his wife, then WHY? oh yeah, you dont owe me an explanation. look, if you want to debate sports with the big boys, then you have to bring it. your feeble attempts of posts make you look ridiculous. now observe what tickletoy wrote in his recent post. see, he makes a statement and tries to back it up. he goes into explaining WHY he has his viewpoint. you? all you ever come up with is "Kobe is a cheater!" weak man, very weak. now go ahead and continue to fool those people into believing you know what you are talking about when it comes to sports. but, we all know the truth about you dont we.....

tickletoy, you say you brought up the stats to show Shaq's worth to the Lakers. i have never denied the man is a great basketball player, BUT he is NOT worth 30 million dollars a year. only ONE man deserved 30 million a year and that was Michael Jordan. you can compare Shaq's shooting percentage, rebounds and points per game to Jordan and Shaq's numbers will be better. but i would go on to say that Jordan is WORTH MORE than Shaq will ever be. Jordan's work ethic and will to win was always desireable. he didnt go around shooting off his mouth to the owners about "getting surgery on company time" and badmouthing the owner and GM while he was a Bull. Shaq did that a LOT during his Laker tenure. year after year after year, the LA media, fans and even Phil Jackson himself questioned Shaq's yearly motivation. the insults we are bringing up about Shaq did NOT start after he was traded. while he was dancing in the parade, Laker fans were hoping Shaq would come into camp in shape and motivated. the LA media even wrote about how Shaq was out of shape. his being overweight and being unmotivated is the reason wy Laker fans are not buying into this whole "it's all Kobe and the Laker managements fault Shaq's gone." come to LA and ask around to Laker fans. we are sick and tired of this overweight, greedy, arrogant, ingrate badmouthing the Laker organization. all year long he badmouthed the Lakers. do you really think TRUE Laker fans are going to sit back, remember how unmotivated he was while he was in LA, then side with him? HELL NO.

now watch, if Miami is stupid and pay him his 30 million dollar a year contract, when he shows up into Heat camp OUT OF SHAPE and OVERWEIGHT, just remember this post. Shaq is 33 going on 80. the beatings he has taken over his career is finally catching up to him. he will not be playing that much longer and if i am an owner, i am not going to tie up my salary cap space for a guy who badmouths me and wont even be around much longer. tell the truth, neither would you. Kobe is not Jordan. Laker fans realize that and we dont want him to become Jordan. BUT, Kobe has a desire to work hard and a strong will to win. i will take that over a guy who cant do anything else but stand under a basket and is better because he's bigger than anyone else, badmouths the owners of the team that pays him, and has NO MOTIVATION. too bad the Heat are going to experience the same thing...

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Prime, I am not beaten. As for your niece being smarter, maybe she is. But I am the one who has books and reads about the history of sports. The would be baseball, football, basketball, hockey and tennis.( Since I know there are other sports around I figured I would list them as to what I study. ) Never beaten Prime. I actually have a lot of respect for you because of your knowledge but in this particular case knocking Shaq because he lost this year just is wrong. Kobe went nowhere. Do I believe that Kobe is a great player? Yes, of course. I would be stupid to argue that point. But he plays the game with a sense of selfishness that even you can't deny. You brought up Jordan earlier, Jordan had a sense about him. He made players around him better. If he thought that Pippen or Armstrong or anyone else had a better shot he would pass the ball. Kobe right now does not do that. Could he learn? For his sake, he better. In my opinion, a healthy Shaq is still right now better than Kobe Bryant.

 

[tickletoy3]

only ONE man deserved 30 million a year and that was Michael Jordan. you can compare Shaq's shooting percentage, rebounds and points per game to Jordan and Shaq's numbers will be better. but i would go on to say that Jordan is WORTH MORE than Shaq will ever be.

As a PLAYER I would totally without question agree. But given other factors, hard to say given today's 'business' side of sports. Shaq is worth tons of money in 'business' factors. Given today's market probably the same if not more than Jordan. As I mentioned, that's why he's a franchise.

But given total basketball ability alone - no, Shaq is not worth 30 mil a year. However, no one knows the total future impact any player will ultimately have on a team. We're talking tons of revenue in all factors considered.

On a side note, I remember when Magic Johnson signed for 10 years at 10 million and at the time everyone thought that was outrageous. Now it's a joke.

Just shows how much it's all changed over 20 years. Think how much they'll be making in say 2010? Now THAT'S outrageous.