Question about a chat room rule

[justatickler]

Hey all

I've been registered here for just about two and a half years, but have only recently begun poking around in the chat room and meeting/conversing with a few people. After speaking with a couple of other chat 'newbs' like myself, I have a question about something that I've yet to see explained. Like I said, this is a relatively new area for me, so please accept my advanced apologies if this is dead horse abuse.

My question revolves around Rule #5, which is not to PM anyone until asking permission in the main room first. Now, as long as I've been in the room, I've been asking permission very cordially, but as a PM. Not once has anyone objected until recently, and please note that I am omitting their identities as I do not feel it is relevant.

To the best of my knowledge, unless I have a setting available to me that I am unaware of, the PM (or PC as it's actually referred to) will end up, to the recipient, located with the same text in the main room, only in a pink box. This would make more sense, to me, because not only was it a message intended for that person anyway, but the recipient will see it easier. For anyone who has been in there before on a busy day, messages are easily lost in the crowd occasionally. Now, if this were a traditional PM system such as Yahoo or AIM, I could understand. A bunch of boxes popping up all over the place would cause anger and frustration quite quickly, not to mention slowing down your system in many cases. However, the way it is set up, I simply do not see how asking in the main room is beneficial, more respectful, or in any way more secure than simply asking nicely in a private message to them.

Just for clarification, I am not questioning the validity of requesting permission. I am simply asking for a logical explanation as to why it must be done in the main area.

Thanks.

 

[chicago]

I don't get why people get so upset over that either except that I've heard sometimes the chatroom freezes or something when they get a PM. I dunno.

 

[James_Bond4334]

Not many people will get upset over one PC that asked if they would like to talk.

Some will get angry over this because they have been bombarded in the past.

Basically, the rule is there for those annoying people who PC once maybe to ask "Can I PC?", then again, "Hello?", and again, "Talk to me", and again, "Are you ticklish?" and again....you get the point.

Some people get really rude when someone doesn't respond and instead of taking it as a no, they keep going. If this has happened to someone, they tend to react in an aggressive manner when someone only PCs them once.

So if someone gets angry at you for one PC which is simply a quick hello or permission to PC, just ignore them and leave them alone or else it just gets worse.

I hope this helped.

 

[kurchatovium]

Hey all

I've been registered here for just about two and a half years, but have only recently begun poking around in the chat room and meeting/conversing with a few people. After speaking with a couple of other chat 'newbs' like myself, I have a question about something that I've yet to see explained. Like I said, this is a relatively new area for me, so please accept my advanced apologies if this is dead horse abuse.

My question revolves around Rule #5, which is not to PM anyone until asking permission in the main room first. Now, as long as I've been in the room, I've been asking permission very cordially, but as a PM. Not once has anyone objected until recently, and please note that I am omitting their identities as I do not feel it is relevant.

To the best of my knowledge, unless I have a setting available to me that I am unaware of, the PM (or PC as it's actually referred to) will end up, to the recipient, located with the same text in the main room, only in a pink box. This would make more sense, to me, because not only was it a message intended for that person anyway, but the recipient will see it easier. For anyone who has been in there before on a busy day, messages are easily lost in the crowd occasionally. Now, if this were a traditional PM system such as Yahoo or AIM, I could understand. A bunch of boxes popping up all over the place would cause anger and frustration quite quickly, not to mention slowing down your system in many cases. However, the way it is set up, I simply do not see how asking in the main room is beneficial, more respectful, or in any way more secure than simply asking nicely in a private message to them.

Just for clarification, I am not questioning the validity of requesting permission. I am simply asking for a logical explanation as to why it must be done in the main area.

Thanks.

First let me thank you for asking about the rule rather then just violating it. I think if more people were as polite as you such rules would not be as necessary.

Essentially asking someone in a pm if you can pm is like me calling someone up late at night to ask if I can call them up late at night. Almost all chatrooms I have seen have this rule about aways asking in the main room including even the IRC. It is I think a matter of common ettiquete.

Another point as to why the rule exists is that there are a select few people who constantly harrass in PMs as James Bond mentioned. They do it in PMs as to avoid detection by moderators or other individuals who might report their rude and obscene behavior. This as you can imagine can be quite irritating and upseting for those poeple who are the victims of said behavior.

Thirdly as ticklishgiggle pointed out there are sometimes computer problems when people PM even if a popup does not happen. It can cause the chat to freeze or for some people sometimes even a computer freeze or lockup.

I hope that answers your question. 😀

 

[justatickler]

Thank you for noting that, kurchatovium. I wanted to try and be as approachable with this as I could, and refrain from hostility. 🙂 I also appreciate the time you and everyone else took to respond, and I'd like to try and address your responses, if I may.

Essentially asking someone in a pm if you can pm is like me calling someone up late at night to ask if I can call them up late at night. Almost all chatrooms I have seen have this rule about aways asking in the main room including even the IRC. It is I think a matter of common ettiquete.

I understand what you mean here on the technicality that asking to PM in a PM sounds a bit backwards. But then again so is asking someone if you can ask them a question, when you've already just asked one. 🙂 Semantics, really. I was under the impression that asking if one can PM is more akin to asking if they'd like to talk privately, as opposed to simply requesting permission to send them a message. Because in the case of the former, I'd think asking if they'd like to have a private conversation, in a PM, isn't all that unreasonable in and of itself. In most cases I do not feel it is the business of the general populous to know what person is sending PMs to somebody else, who they are, etc.

Another point as to why the rule exists is that there are a select few people who constantly harrass in PMs as James Bond mentioned. They do it in PMs as to avoid detection by moderators or other individuals who might report their rude and obscene behavior. This as you can imagine can be quite irritating and upseting for those poeple who are the victims of said behavior.

I sympathize with this completely and am aware that the room gets its fair share of harassers, but I really don't see how this applies directly to the rule because I don't see how the rule would stop, or even limit this kind of behavior. Reason being is that, well, harassment is already its own rule. If people aren't going to follow that rule, it's unfortunate, but a fact of life and the use of that chat room. The person being harassed has the choice, if not the responsibility to the community, to address this issue with a moderator and notify others in the room, if necessary.

Instead what is happening is people like myself are being called out in the main room by a vocal few as though I am incompetent and guilty of harassment, simply because I made the apparently grave error of asking to chat in a private message. This was an incident which subsequently lead to my posing this question. I don't think anyone in there should have the right to pretend to utilize some elitist ego to slander any good people in the forum for 'breaking' a rule which has arguably very little to no functional purpose. Frankly, if you ask five people in the chat room what they think the function of the rule is, you'd probably get five different answers.

Thirdly as ticklishgiggle pointed out there are sometimes computer problems when people PM even if a popup does not happen. It can cause the chat to freeze or for some people sometimes even a computer freeze or lockup.

Technical issues are a reasonable argument, though I don't see how a private message in the chat room could cause a software or flash/java issue so long as it's located within the same applet window. However I am admittedly not a technician for this site and am unfamiliar with the software it uses beyond vBulletin. Though I can honestly say that when I have posed this question to members in that room in the past, I received no answer regarding technical issues.

 

[kurchatovium]

Thank you for noting that, kurchatovium. I wanted to try and be as approachable with this as I could, and refrain from hostility. I also appreciate the time you and everyone else took to respond, and I'd like to try and address your responses, if I may.

You are most welcome. I will try my best to answer them if I can.

I understand what you mean here on the technicality that asking to PM in a PM sounds a bit backwards. But then again so is asking someone if you can ask them a question, when you've already just asked one. Semantics, really. I was under the impression that asking if one can PM is more akin to asking if they'd like to talk privately, as opposed to simply requesting permission to send them a message. Because in the case of the former, I'd think asking if they'd like to have a private conversation, in a PM, isn't all that unreasonable in and of itself. In most cases I do not feel it is the business of the general populous to know what person is sending PMs to somebody else, who they are, etc.

Like I said previously this is a common practice for any forum or room that has a chat. I have yet to see a room that does not require permission first to be asked in the main room for a private chat. The difference in politeness though is more then you are implying. In the chatroom asking in the main room first gives the person the chance to say no without actually having to answer the pm. This is polite. To ask in a pm if you can pm forces the person to answer your pm. This is impolite. This is not a matter of semantics it is a matter of common courtesy,

Second point. It is a moderators business to know that pms are being asked for in the proper manner to make sure that people are being polite and to make sure that some are not being harrassed.

I sympathize with this completely and am aware that the room gets its fair share of harassers, but I really don't see how this applies directly to the rule because I don't see how the rule would stop, or even limit this kind of behavior. Reason being is that, well, harassment is already its own rule. If people aren't going to follow that rule, it's unfortunate, but a fact of life and the use of that chat room. The person being harassed has the choice, if not the responsibility to the community, to address this issue with a moderator and notify others in the room, if necessary.

Instead what is happening is people like myself are being called out in the main room by a vocal few as though I am incompetent and guilty of harassment, simply because I made the apparently grave error of asking to chat in a private message. This was an incident which subsequently lead to my posing this question. I don't think anyone in there should have the right to pretend to utilize some elitist ego to slander any good people in the forum for 'breaking' a rule which has arguably very little to no functional purpose. Frankly, if you ask five people in the chat room what they think the function of the rule is, you'd probably get five different answers.

Basically most harrassment these days occurs via people hurling crude insulting remarks at people via the pm method without asking. These comments can only be seen by the two parties invovled. It makes it difficult for the people being harrased because they must report it to a Mod and say so and so called me this or that. Many people are embarrased to do this or sometimes they just dont want to goto the trouble or cause any trouble.

People have been booted or banned for violating the rule. All of those people were not people who made a mistake or perhaps did not quite understand the rule. They were people that continued to harrass via pm's. So if you occasionaly slip up (and many people do) there is no need to feel embarassed just say you are sorry or oops and next time ask in the main room and there should be no further problems.

Ask women in the chat why the rule is there I am sure you will be more likely to get similar responses. They are 9 times out of 10 the victim of this abuse.

Technical issues are a reasonable argument, though I don't see how a private message in the chat room could cause a software or flash/java issue so long as it's located within the same applet window. However I am admittedly not a technician for this site and am unfamiliar with the software it uses beyond vBulletin. Though I can honestly say that when I have posed this question to members in that room in the past, I received no answer regarding technical issues.

I am no techincian either. I only know it has happened to me and others as well.


I hope this resolves the issue for you.

 

[Sultrybrunette]

Well since I was directed to this thread I might as well put in my two cents. I think some of the women in there make wayyyyyyyyy too much out of it. I completely agree with Justatickler in that I would much rather have someone ask me in private than in the main room. Basically its immaturity on the part of the girls. I keep saying that there is no reason why the girls cannot say no thank you privately instead of being rude and purposely humiliating a guy in the main room. I also agree that everyone does not need to know who I am talking to privately. Its none of their business. If people were just polite on both sides, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Headsnap]

Technical issues are a reasonable argument, though I don't see how a private message in the chat room could cause a software or flash/java issue so long as it's located within the same applet window. However I am admittedly not a technician for this site and am unfamiliar with the software it uses beyond vBulletin. Though I can honestly say that when I have posed this question to members in that room in the past, I received no answer regarding technical issues.

It does happen. Whenever I get a PM from someone the entire chatroom freezes for a good minute or two. Might be something to do with the fact my computer is as old as the hills and twice as green-mouldy. Either way it does happen, and it's as good a reason as any to require asking permission before PMing someone because it is irritating.

Instead what is happening is people like myself are being called out in the main room by a vocal few as though I am incompetent and guilty of harassment, simply because I made the apparently grave error of asking to chat in a private message. This was an incident which subsequently lead to my posing this question. I don't think anyone in there should have the right to pretend to utilize some elitist ego to slander any good people in the forum for 'breaking' a rule which has arguably very little to no functional purpose. Frankly, if you ask five people in the chat room what they think the function of the rule is, you'd probably get five different answers.

Yeah I don't like that either. Fair enough if you PM someone without asking and they remind you, once, without hyperbolic knobheadedness, of the rule you've just broken, that's understandable. However, when you get these folks going into one about how someone is an awful criminal because they have sent a PM without asking and then bashing the PMer for about half an hour, that to me smacks of someone who has far too high an opinion of themselves and needs to be quiet. There is an ignore button, sirs. Use it. And shut up.

To be honest the easy answer is don't PM people without asking in the main room first, because that's the rule and whingeing about it on the forums isn't going to change it.

 

[Helena]

Well since I was directed to this thread I might as well put in my two cents. I think some of the women in there make wayyyyyyyyy too much out of it. I completely agree with Justatickler in that I would much rather have someone ask me in private than in the main room. Basically its immaturity on the part of the girls. I keep saying that there is no reason why the girls cannot say no thank you privately instead of being rude and purposely humiliating a guy in the main room. I also agree that everyone does not need to know who I am talking to privately. Its none of their business. If people were just polite on both sides, it wouldn't be an issue.

If another asks to pc me, and does so in the main room, I appreciate the gesture.
I hate it when someone randomly bombards me with private notes. I will try and end that problem by greeting them in the main room, and finding out who they are.
I remember I asked Headsnap for a private chat one time. He made it clear that it wasn't going to happen. All I wanted was completely inappropriate conversation, and an hour of his time. LOL

 

[justatickler]

It does happen. Whenever I get a PM from someone the entire chatroom freezes for a good minute or two. Might be something to do with the fact my computer is as old as the hills and twice as green-mouldy. Either way it does happen, and it's as good a reason as any to require asking permission before PMing someone because it is irritating.

It's as good a reason as any to have a rule that applies to everyone because of a few that have obsolete or poorly running computer systems? Can't say I agree with that one.

To be honest the easy answer is don't PM people without asking in the main room first, because that's the rule and whingeing about it on the forums isn't going to change it.

I doubt you meant it how it sounds, but I'm not whining. I started the thread to ask an honest question about a rule I felt, and still feel, is superfluous and lacks function. I've asked several people and received several answers. I feel different answers to the same question is telling of something that has an unclear function, but I do appreciate the time everyone took to offer their opinions. Provided they grant such permission in their profiles, which I feel is a polite gesture, I will PM them to ask if they'd like to have a conversation. If they do not, or leave that area of their chat profile blank, I simply won't PM them.

 

[justatickler]

I hate it when someone randomly bombards me with private notes.

I understand, and agree with you, but I don't feel this is relevant to a permission request. Bombarding is indicative of harassment, which is covered in another rule.

 

[Headsnap]

Doing anything to anyone without their consent constitutes harrassment if the person being acted upon feels it is so. You might also find that where Helena says "bombarded" she may not necessarily be talking about receiving a slew of messages from a single person; she might feel bombarded by a load of single unsolicited messages from lots of different people.

It's as good a reason as any to have a rule that applies to everyone because of a few that have obsolete or poorly running computer systems? Can't say I agree with that one.

To me, this answer paints you as a complete arse. What you're essentially saying here is that you take umbrage at being asked to moderate your behaviour in case it causes inconvenience to someone else. There is irony (hypocrisy?) in me calling someone an arse for holding such an attitude, but I don't care 😀

I doubt you meant it how it sounds, but I'm not whining. I started the thread to ask an honest question about a rule I felt, and still feel, is superfluous and lacks function. I've asked several people and received several answers. I feel different answers to the same question is telling of something that has an unclear function, but I do appreciate the time everyone took to offer their opinions. Provided they grant such permission in their profiles, which I feel is a polite gesture, I will PM them to ask if they'd like to have a conversation. If they do not, or leave that area of their chat profile blank, I simply won't PM them.

If someone has it in their profile that they don't mind receiving PMs then asking in the main room is redundant, so more power to your elbow or whatever, but the rule being questioned has a clear function; it prevents people who don't want PMs, for whatever reason, getting PMs, because it gives them an opportunity to say "no" or "I don't do PMs because my computer is old and PMs kill my java thingy". I think maybe the wording of the rule has bothered you. Given your comment about checking profiles you are obviously not averse to seeking permission before sending someone a PM. Maybe if they changed it to "Don't PM people without permission" and removed the bit about the main room it'd be less confusing, although people who put "PM me pliz!" in their profiles tend to be the exception rather than the rule you'd probably still need to ask in the main room if you want to PM anyone anyway.

 

[justatickler]

Doing anything to anyone without their consent constitutes harrassment if the person being acted upon feels it is so. You might also find that where Helena says "bombarded" she may not necessarily be talking about receiving a slew of messages from a single person; she might feel bombarded by a load of single unsolicited messages from lots of different people.

Allowing someone to label anything happening to them as harassment seems a bit illogical to me, not to mention bordering on a very slippery slope. Repetition must be involved to constitute harassment. I simply assumed Helena was referring to repeated messages from a single person, because she specified 'someone' bombarding her with messages.

To me, this answer paints you as a complete arse. What you're essentially saying here is that you take umbrage at being asked to moderate your behaviour in case it causes inconvenience to someone else.

Well, in this case I don't believe the vast majority should have to alter their behavior for the few and far between. In my opinion, the most reasonable answer to my question thus far has been 'technical issues'. Yet technical issues are not only the least-observed answer to my query, but are most likely the fault of the person operating the system, as it's quite clear the vast majority of chat users are not experiencing such problems. Keep in mind that this doesn't even take into account the fact that most of those who have this problem likely lack the experience to determine whether it was PMs in the the java applet of the TMF chat room which caused it in the first place.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, just trying to be honest. Most people don't know their way around a computer to save their lives. Especially when there's a glitch.

I think maybe the wording of the rule has bothered you. Given your comment about checking profiles you are obviously not averse to seeking permission before sending someone a PM. Maybe if they changed it to "Don't PM people without permission" and removed the bit about the main room it'd be less confusing, although people who put "PM me pliz!" in their profiles tend to be the exception rather than the rule you'd probably still need to ask in the main room if you want to PM anyone anyway.

I don't think my objection is about the rule being confusing or mis-worded. It's about the rule lacking function for the vast majority of those who use the chat room. I believe this is the reason why far more 'chatters' don't mind being asked about talking privately, in a private message. I don't believe the rule has anything to do with harassment because it does nothing to curb such a problem, nor do I believe two harassment rules would need to exist anyway. I also do not believe it is any more tactful or 'polite' to ask in the main room versus a PM, as they both show up in the exact same window with no adverse effects for most users. Some people do...oh well.