same-sex marriages on going Battle

[nessonite1]

This thread has fallen apart rapidly. I had hoped that we could take this TMF-style thread and do something OTHER than what the TMF would do with it. Sadly that has not been the case.
I have to say that NOBODY has the right to call Kalamos immature, especially not those currently doing so. The man is quite obviously mature, well educated, and knowledgable not to mention eloquent, articulate, and has a LOT of patience.
I'm bidding this thread a not so fond farewell as I'm rather tired of being preached at. I know where I can go for thoughtful conversation and even debate and it's sure not here. I am hoping that K and the others who have responded intelligently will not continure beating this rather dead horse.
Really I think I've gotten all of the homophobic and insulting comments I can stomach. Let me clue a few people in who dont happen to know any homosexuals. I am the daughter of a bisexual woman and was raised around many caring and wonderful people of ALL sexual preferences. I have known gay bastards and straight bastards. Tolerance comes with experience and some people just grow up under a rock believing nothing more than what the earthworms tell them to believe.
And I really hope nobody out there believes they dont know ANY gay poeple. First of all if you're reading this you know some in this very forum. Secondly the gay hethen scum are probably living right in your very town! *gasp!*

 

[tummynavelboy]

This thread has fallen apart rapidly. I had hoped that we could take this TMF-style thread and do something OTHER than what the TMF would do with it. Sadly that has not been the case.
I have to say that NOBODY has the right to call Kalamos immature, especially not those currently doing so. The man is quite obviously mature, well educated, and knowledgable not to mention eloquent, articulate, and has a LOT of patience.
I'm bidding this thread a not so fond farewell as I'm rather tired of being preached at. I know where I can go for thoughtful conversation and even debate and it's sure not here. I am hoping that K and the others who have responded intelligently will not continure beating this rather dead horse.
Really I think I've gotten all of the homophobic and insulting comments I can stomach. Let me clue a few people in who dont happen to know any homosexuals. I am the daughter of a bisexual woman and was raised around many caring and wonderful people of ALL sexual preferences. I have known gay bastards and straight bastards. Tolerance comes with experience and some people just grow up under a rock believing nothing more than what the earthworms tell them to believe.
And I really hope nobody out there believes they dont know ANY gay poeple. First of all if you're reading this you know some in this very forum. Secondly the gay hethen scum are probably living right in your very town! *gasp!*

why are most of you people here so jumping at the gun as to religion or Christianty ingeneral? There is no prove that your faith or faiths is right then any other religion (including mine and many other Christians) just because we as christians try to talk about Gods love and how he can the light in your life people get all jumpy and shove it to the side because they do not want to hear it.

 

[tummynavelboy]

and please if you members here are jumping at the gun towards christians and Christianty then please point that out and let me know

 

[CrypticSlayer]

Hey Nessonite... nice emblem... are you of British ancestry?

 

[alf1]

why are most of you people here so jumping at the gun as to religion or Christianty ingeneral? There is no prove that your faith or faiths is right then any other religion (including mine and many other Christians) just because we as christians try to talk about Gods love and how he can the light in your life people get all jumpy and shove it to the side because they do not want to hear it.

Are you calling Kalamos immature by your lack of openminding or has he given more personal thoughts than you have ???

I am not jumping at religion at all : it's a fact thought that it is the main cause of wars since a long time.

Besides christians and other religion people that i know are more open minded.
* maybe they are more mature too *

I still wait for my answers : what about gay priests ??? - and can u be a good cat.....oh oh christian without going to church ???

Are you mature enough to understand others ????

 

[BigJim1]

Did you hear the speech that Mr. Pres Bush gave on this issue? i think the speech was today. But it was on like every news stationed that covered this topic! i 110% back up the president on this issue. i don't care how much Gay couples complain and cry over to wanting to have a part in marriage and making it legal for them to get married just like between a man and a women. it is totaly wrong and going against what the word of Gods says and Stands for. Becasue my dad said just tonight (he is a christian btw) but that if you allow Gay couples and thier rights for them to get married in every state. Then over time you will have to allow insest marriages to happen and Mormons to get married as well.


i will like Gays as people but i do and will not like them for what they stand for and thier lifestyles that they live

Well that's fine for people who are of the same religion as you, but pray what happens to anyone who wants to live their life a different way? Personally I don't see a need for formalised marriage at all, except as a way to safeguard someone's financial position. (I'd only get married if I wanted to make sure my fiance was covered by my pension plan for example.)

Why does religion have to come into this at all BBR? There's a growing population of the world who don't give a shit about religion, especially organised religion. There's also a growing amount of people who just call themselves "spiritual" and have their own relationship with the Almighty without having to blessed by a bloke in a dress. If you used your logic (and I use that word with reservation) to justify not changing the law, you'd be endorsing a Christians-only way of thinking about life in America. Someone who is an atheist or agnostic would not affect you in the least if you chose to be adult and ignore them, neither would their being able to have legal status in their relationship affect you or your values at all. So why restrict their ability to live their life the way they want to? Why should they have your morals and dogma inflicted on them?

 

[BigJim1]

3. Who's to say that YOUR God is the one true god. Don't Buddha, Vishnu, Allah (the real Allah, not the bastardized version the Taliban trots around so calm down), Ra, Odin, Zeus, and Bob Dobbs have a say in this?

Most of them are the same personality under different names anyway. You know how many different people allegedly led the exact same life and did the exact same deeds as Jesus is credited with? Over 40, that's how many! Every "new" religion that's ever come out has been a regurgitation of the same of cobblers, with new names and an allegedly new start. They all boil down to one thing and one thing only: sun worship. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[tummynavelboy]

hey jim

will you please Listen to Ravi Zacharias. since most everybody here Won't!... im not saying you have to belive or whatever. Just listen to the two Archives on this website link

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/let_my_people_think/Archives.asp and then get back to me on this same thread about what you thought on it.

the archive that i want you to listen to is called Jesus amongst other Gods part 1 and part 2

thanks

 

[frye45]

I think we have strayed way off the original point here. As far as I'm concerned, BBR can believe whatever he wants. I, for one, am not here to knock his or anyone else's personal spirituality. But--and this is where I draw the line--keep it within the confines of your own life. If Bush wants to be a devout Christian, fine, but when he begins to legislate away the civil rights of a particular group of people because of his own narrow-mindedness, that's where it must stop. The government has a duty to "promote the general welfare"; the GENERAL welfare, not just the welfare of the Christians or the straight folks. If we can't tolerate everyone, then we tolerate no one.

 

[tummynavelboy]

I think we have strayed way off the original point here. As far as I'm concerned, BBR can believe whatever he wants. I, for one, am not here to knock his or anyone else's personal spirituality. But--and this is where I draw the line--keep it within the confines of your own life. If Bush wants to be a devout Christian, fine, but when he begins to legislate away the civil rights of a particular group of people because of his own narrow-mindedness, that's where it must stop. The government has a duty to "promote the general welfare"; the GENERAL welfare, not just the welfare of the Christians or the straight folks. If we can't tolerate everyone, then we tolerate no one.

They may be so frye45. But it cleary states in Bible that Homosexual is wrong. and you should not go againt Gods teachings or try to twist it around to your likeing just because you don't agree with something. You should try your best to follow Gods word the best you can and since Mr. Bush is a christian is clearly knows what he says about homosexuals and the topic matter of Gay marriages.

i don't follow my faith as well as i should and im struggling just like the next christian but i know that marriage should only be between a man and a Women period

 

[frye45]

Since when did we substitue the Bible for The Bill of Rights? What if I'm an agnostic? Or an atheist? Or I practice Wicca? Does this mean that you're right and I'm wrong, end of story? I would never be so presumptuous as to assume that I know what's best for another group of people. Why is it so hard to keep religion out of the public sphere?

 

[tummynavelboy]

if im Not mistaken The Bill of Rights and The constitution was Founded by Christian vaules.

 

[frye45]

And if I'M not mistaken, this country was founded by a group of people fleeing religious persecution. Like it or not, in this country, religion CANNOT be used as a basis for legislation. And before you talk about Thou shalt not kill, murder is an obvious infringement on someone else's rights, so that's just a basic moral tenet, not one that is specifically Judeo-Christian. The Founding Fathers may have been Christian, I don't dispute that, but they had the wisdom to construct the Constitution in a secular manner. The first Amendment contains the Establishment Clause, which states that the government shall not establish any religion, and the Supreme Court has ruled over and over again that to legislate based on a particular religious belief is a violation of that clause.

 

[tummynavelboy]

True i agree on some parts. But americans are already trying to Have this world become A GOD-LESS World! and that i DO NOT support and they have done well in some parts in doing that. Schools etc... are trying to Get God so far away from everybody and have this world become more secular and sinful everyday.

 

[frye45]

First of all, why do you equate secular with sinful? I consider myself a secular person and yet I have never killed or molested or assaulted anyone. I try to do unto others and treat people--all people--with kindness and respect. And secondly, if there is a God, do you really think that we, mere humans, could legislate our way to a Godless world? If God exists, he exists, and banning school prayer is not going to change that. All I'm saying is keep religion in the church or the mosque or the synagogue or wherever. If God cares that much about a same-sex couple getting married, he can deal with it in his own way. It's not up to us.

 

[tummynavelboy]

True it is up to God. Yes we as humans could legislate our way to a Godless world. Becasue we humans try to Mock and slander God for all he is worth. because thier are people in this world that wanna go to hell and that wanna worship the Beast. so some people could care less about God and after life and care more about the things in this world insted

 

[Kalamos]

Guys, I would call it quits. 🙂

Nothing we can say will ever make anybody change his/her/its respective mind.

Besides, with all due respect, BBR's posts are so radical, I doubt he really believes what he's written so far.

Either he is a fundamentalist christian - and then I cannot see why he still keeps posting on an adult erotic forum. Or he's just making fun of us, rekindling the flame war. 😉

Either case, I doubt repeating myself will serve any good purpose. I can't say I am tolerant a million times without becoming at least a bit intolerant. 😀

I think I'll go and have a chat with mr Ravi Zacharias himself [but wasn't he "Zachcious" in the previous posts? Nah, nevermind], after all.

At least his speeches will be pertinent to the place he chose to post them. 😉

Is this still an adult erotic forum, is it?
I'm not sure anymore.


Reg's.

 

[tummynavelboy]

Kalamos

why do you always attack me when i post things, But you don't attack gibby when he posts things on THIS THREAD? is it becasue he writes better posts then i do he's smarter then me etc or what......

what is it!

just curious

 

[Kalamos]

It's sad you feel attacked. I have no intention on singling you out.

I reply to your posts because the last posts are yours.

If Gibby or Maniac [or anybody] wanted to comment more on this thread, I would reply to them too.


Reg's.

 

[BigJim1]

hey jim

will you please Listen to Ravi Zacharias. since most everybody here Won't!... im not saying you have to belive or whatever. Just listen to the two Archives on this website link

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/let_my_people_think/Archives.asp and then get back to me on this same thread about what you thought on it.

the archive that i want you to listen to is called Jesus amongst other Gods part 1 and part 2

thanks

Hmmm. I have to be honest Roc, I've heard most of that before. It contained nothing new to me and only seemed to focus on disproving that all religions are equally good. My point is that they're all equally bad. I do however like the man's speaking style. Maybe that's because he's not American. I don't know what it is, but American preachers really piss me off, not matter what their religion! They way they speak always reminds me of some televangelist faith healer, in an ill-fitting wig, placing his hand on someone's forehead, masturbating with the other and screaming about the devil in front of an audience of gibbering in-breds. (Who were probably on their way to the Jerry Springer show, but took the wrong turning in the studio.)

But Ravi is quite a compelling speaker. Certainly better than any vicar who came to my school to do the occasional Bible reading. What pisses me off about Ravi, is that he talks about "Christianity being the only religion that explains *insert big unexplainable thing here*" as if it applies to everyone. He talks as if he's the only one who ever did any research into spirituality. He completely neglects that anyone else could possibly have found answers anywhere else and is completely absorbed in himself scoring points over Hindu scholars in debates.

My highlight was the part about the woman who offered to keep children in America as a favour.
But why can't someone who's Islamic or Bhuddist take a positive and turn it to a negative, like he suggests is impossible? It's nonsensical to suggest that that virtue is confined soley to Christans. I've done the same thing many times, yet I reject Christianity as the manufactured tool of mind control, largely designed by Levite priests re-inventing pagan religions that had gone beforehand. If you can listen to that and find a tool that sets your spirit free, then good for you buddy! You've dound something that'll let you do good in the world and psychologically rationalise it. But you also seem to think that anyone who doesn't share the same desperately limited view of possibility is doomed to damnation. A God that narrow-minded is one I'd find it hard to worship.

Nevertheless, he's a compelling and seemingly heartfelt speaker who I enjoyed listening to. 52 minutes well spent.

 

[BigJim1]

I think we have strayed way off the original point here. As far as I'm concerned, BBR can believe whatever he wants. I, for one, am not here to knock his or anyone else's personal spirituality. But--and this is where I draw the line--keep it within the confines of your own life. If Bush wants to be a devout Christian, fine, but when he begins to legislate away the civil rights of a particular group of people because of his own narrow-mindedness, that's where it must stop. The government has a duty to "promote the general welfare"; the GENERAL welfare, not just the welfare of the Christians or the straight folks. If we can't tolerate everyone, then we tolerate no one.

Give this member a medal, an honourary knighthood from the Queen of England and five hours tickling the celebrity of his choice!

Principle 1: Never be afraid to express your individuality in any way you see fit.

Principle 2: Give other that same right.

Principle 3: Never try to force your views on anyone against their will, whether by dint of law or physical force.

 

[BigJim1]

They may be so frye45. But it cleary states in Bible that Homosexual is wrong. and you should not go againt Gods teachings or try to twist it around to your likeing just because you don't agree with something. You should try your best to follow Gods word the best you can and since Mr. Bush is a christian is clearly knows what he says about homosexuals and the topic matter of Gay marriages.

i don't follow my faith as well as i should and im struggling just like the next christian but i know that marriage should only be between a man and a Women period

The fact that you completely ignore is that bible is one of many books all claiming to be the true word of the Almighty, and all hugely innacurrate. (Even the church admits that the KJB carried more than 40,000 translation errors as of the 19th century. The most important mistake being the word "Elohim" being translated as "God". In fact, "Elo" means "God", whereas the h-i-m makes it a plural. The Old Testament should be talking about "the gods". The RCC doesn't even claim that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels, only that they were named after them.)
The Bible is no more God's Word than it is the diary of Pee-Wee Hermann; it's largely the fabrication and loose symbolism of the Levite priesthood. There's far more historical evidence for that then there is for it being literal history.

And George W. Bush is no more a christian than Damien Thorn was. He just knows what sde his votes are buttered on. Anyone who can attend sex orgies at Bohemian Grove and Burnham Beeches, or did the sex acts required in a Skull & Bones Society initiation could never be described as a modest christian!

 

[BigJim1]

True it is up to God. Yes we as humans could legislate our way to a Godless world. Becasue we humans try to Mock and slander God for all he is worth. because thier are people in this world that wanna go to hell and that wanna worship the Beast. so some people could care less about God and after life and care more about the things in this world insted

Horrifying though that thought may be to you, that is our right as humans with Free Will. It is not up to anyone to decide what path we tread, or even if we tread one at all. We'll all answer to "God" in the end, so as long as we don't harm or infringe on other on our way to Judgement, no-one else as ANY business co-ercing anyone else to their way of thinking or their values.

 

[BigJim1]

Afterthought...

Another thing I liked about Ravi was that he didn't wail and spit brimstone. He spoke vociferously certainly, but not with contempt. I have more time for the man than some I could mention. Thanks for the link Roc.

 

[tummynavelboy]

Another thing I liked about Ravi was that he didn't wail and spit brimstone. He spoke vociferously certainly, but not with contempt. I have more time for the man than some I could mention. Thanks for the link Roc.

Im Glad someone listened to Ravi for once on here. Did you Listen to Both parts though part 1 and 2? i mean Did you really LISTEN TO IT!


Tell me some things you caught about what he was talking about and what you liked. please share with others

and your welcome btw jim