Slight Problem; Advice Appreciated

[Azrael]

Alright, then.

Basically, my primary problem, at this point, as I see it, is that I don't take hints very well. I know, that's true of a lot of people, but even the thickest dumbass will typically realize something's wrong when somebody is pointing a gun in their face and saying "turn around and walk. Now."

(No, I've not been in that situation, or anything like it; it's just an example for comparison's sake).

I tend to take people very literally, at their word, unless we're obviously engaged in an ongoing joke at the time, or I've gotten to know a person well enough to know that they are more likely to be silly than serious. Sometimes, I'm able to recognize a given individual's tendency to exaggerate... but even then, all it typically takes is a "no, I'm not exaggerating," and suddenly, in my head, they aren't exaggerating... and, maybe, they weren't exaggerating when they said this, either.

And hints... innuendo... I'm hopeless. Completely, hopeless. I give myself less credit for nothing else on this Earth than the perception of that which isn't stated flat-out. I'm not a stupid person, by any stretch of the imagination; I can occasionally behave in an ignorant fashion, not counting those times when I'm simply being an ass intentionally (hopefully amusing somebody in the process). I'm imaginative, and creative, and in certain fashions I am in fact very perceptive; I pick up on visual "abnormalities" very well. At the barn where my mother boards her horse, for example, I'm usually the first one to be asked if an animal "might be going lame" (as in temporarily) because I somehow pick up on slight differences in a horse's gait before it is in fact unable to use a leg by and large / at all.

But I'd probably have better luck swallowing swords, while juggling, right now, than I do at picking up on the cause of a person's mood. Even when I really ought to know. As a result, I come across as being completely selfish, and sometimes thoughtless, which bothers me immensely; I am not these things, and I don't like being perceived as such by those people whom I actually give a damn about. I don't like being perceived as such by anyone, but especially by those who ought to know better... but can't, because everything I'm saying is oozing exactly that mannerism.

It hurts, deeply, to see someone become so completely shocked and hurt and angry at something I've said, about... well, anything, somebody's mood or current activity or whatever... when I was misunderstanding from the beginning, and in fact there's something else wrong that has nothing to do with me that I would love to help with----if I weren't being ignored due to the fact that I just spent half an hour coming across as a thoughtless pig, because it was assumed that I'd pick up on something that I simply... didn't... and, I have to admit to myself, probably should have.

Aside from seeing a therapist... not because I'm unwilling to consider it, but because I'm already planning on it, as soon as I'm able... does anyone else, perhaps having had a similar problem in the past, have any advice on how to deal with this? I'm sick to death of offending people because they're sending out strong signals... but my radio's turned off.

 

[venray]

I'm sick to death of offending people because they're sending out strong signals... but my radio's turned off.

Not your fault.....

One cannot expect another to "pick up on signals" at the drop of the hat....

If someone is moody or feeling bad about something they should come right out and tell the person they consider a friend and not expect them to be psychic....

So my best advice is to let the other know that you are there for them when they are ready.....and let it lie until that time....

 

[spareme]

If only they sold crystal balls at Walmart. Some people are as bad at expressing themselves as others are at understanding them. Just a thought.

 

[Dussicar]

You are a very analytical person. I knew that the second I read your posts as of late.

I have a friend like you. He is my best friend, as a matter of fact. That's why I could tell.That is also why your thread statement didn't surprise me when I read it.

Like you, he can be goofy when he wants to be(actually, he can be downright sick and twisted lol). But there are sometimes where he just dosen't connect with the things I or others are saying. That analytical thinking of his sometimes puts him on another page than everybody else. He is NOT stupid by any means. Like you, he is extremely intelligent. But sometimes, he just dosen't get it.

You are NOT suffering from a sickness. Nor are you insensitive. Your mind just works on a different level of wave length. I'll be honest: Yes. It does sometimes become frustrating to deal with my friend. He and I have gotten into arguments because of me discussing north while he's talking south, but we are good friends for a reason.

However, if you feel that this is causing HUGE rifts in your friendships on a regular basis, then perhapes a therapist might be a way to go. If nothing else, to just figure what's going on in the ol' noggin. It's surprising what we find inside ourselves sometimes.

You also might want to consider being tested for some level of autism.

 

[Timewarp]

mmm...hmmm...the situation you described seems to fit a personality that I can identify with. Although I don't know the whole thing, I could place you under the Myers-Briggs category: Istp (Though I can't be called on to be sure without testing)

An ISTP Are careful observers. When a problem arises they tend to solve it as efficiently with the least amount of effort. They are interested on how things work but hate abstract theories unless they can apply to them. They function as natural trouble shooters.

An ISTPs use Thinking as their primary focus. Their minds are like computers, collecting data using reason, impersonally and objectively. They are also the ultra realists. They don't rely on possibility. They are hands on, enjoy sports and the outdoors. They market on the method of efficiency without the waste of energy or time. An ISTP absolutely hates routine and structure. Unfortunately today's environment, especially in traditional schooling, don't represent their true potential or intelligence.

ISTPs are egalitarian (I guess fancy) and tolerate any behavior...except in cases where their personality is attack, unintentional or not. That is when they make a clear stance which complete surprise others. They don't seem to put up most of a fight any other time because all their judgment is internal. They are quick to change if only to optimize the method of efficiency. Because of this, they are the most hardest to read of all the personalities. ISTPs are quite and reserved but quite talkative in areas where they have the greatest knowledge of.

The most weakest of all the internal processes an ISTP will have is feeling. Because an ISTP judges by reason and not heart they can come across as cold and thought less. Which is not true because an ISTP will ALWAYS think about what they will say next at least a uncountable amount of time. They consider what effect what they say will have and the most possible outcome of this action. Again because an ISTP is using facts, reason and objectivity it is often that the message is misinterprit by the other personalities because they believe they have an emotional meaning behind it. In ture honesty this the greatest hurdle an ISTP overcome. If this has an effect on what they are doing, they will judge themselves harshly with their inabillity to complete the task, approaching it with a grim outcome.

This is just one example of a 16 personality category. But if you did find out what your Personae was, maybe you'll be more at peace with your actions as you realize that these are actions you can't really control. I know I am. I am a ISTP and time and time again i'm considered by others as rude and thoughtless. But the fact that I now have some sense about who I really am, i'm just feel a bit more relived that my actions are something I will never control or change. Guess I just got to go with it.

(And for those who think i'm crazy...well...like I care)

 

[DannyMc]

Funny thing about animals , they pick up on the kind of person you are without saying a word to them . Animals are so much easier and less complicated to deal with then some people . Some things we have in our lives are not seen ,yet are always there . In the scheme of things , if one way doesn't work , there's always another . Sometimes to put ones self in anothers boots can help to get that second sight , or to see where there coming from , from the the places we've already been .

 

[Flatfoot]

mmm...hmmm...the situation you described seems to fit a personality that I can identify with. Although I don't know the whole thing, I could place you under the Myers-Briggs category: Istp (Though I can't be called on to be sure without testing)

An ISTP Are careful observers. When a problem arises they tend to solve it as efficiently with the least amount of effort. They are interested on how things work but hate abstract theories unless they can apply to them. They function as natural trouble shooters.

An ISTPs use Thinking as their primary focus. Their minds are like computers, collecting data using reason, impersonally and objectively. They are also the ultra realists. They don't rely on possibility. They are hands on, enjoy sports and the outdoors. They market on the method of efficiency without the waste of energy or time. An ISTP absolutely hates routine and structure. Unfortunately today's environment, especially in traditional schooling, don't represent their true potential or intelligence.

ISTPs are egalitarian (I guess fancy) and tolerate any behavior...except in cases where their personality is attack, unintentional or not. That is when they make a clear stance which complete surprise others. They don't seem to put up most of a fight any other time because all their judgment is internal. They are quick to change if only to optimize the method of efficiency. Because of this, they are the most hardest to read of all the personalities. ISTPs are quite and reserved but quite talkative in areas where they have the greatest knowledge of.

The most weakest of all the internal processes an ISTP will have is feeling. Because an ISTP judges by reason and not heart they can come across as cold and thought less. Which is not true because an ISTP will ALWAYS think about what they will say next at least a uncountable amount of time. They consider what effect what they say will have and the most possible outcome of this action. Again because an ISTP is using facts, reason and objectivity it is often that the message is misinterprit by the other personalities because they believe they have an emotional meaning behind it. In ture honesty this the greatest hurdle an ISTP overcome. If this has an effect on what they are doing, they will judge themselves harshly with their inabillity to complete the task, approaching it with a grim outcome.

This is just one example of a 16 personality category. But if you did find out what your Personae was, maybe you'll be more at peace with your actions as you realize that these are actions you can't really control. I know I am. I am a ISTP and time and time again i'm considered by others as rude and thoughtless. But the fact that I now have some sense about who I really am, i'm just feel a bit more relived that my actions are something I will never control or change. Guess I just got to go with it.

(And for those who think i'm crazy...well...like I care)

I found this analysis to be rather intriguing. However, my concern is with realistic/objective thinking tied to not being able to control/change actions. I feel that this is counter to objective thinking. An objectivist knows they always have a choice regarding a situation.

 

[Flatfoot]

But I'd probably have better luck swallowing swords, while juggling, right now, than I do at picking up on the cause of a person's mood. Even when I really ought to know. As a result, I come across as being completely selfish, and sometimes thoughtless, which bothers me immensely; I am not these things, and I don't like being perceived as such by those people whom I actually give a damn about. I don't like being perceived as such by anyone, but especially by those who ought to know better... but can't, because everything I'm saying is oozing exactly that mannerism.

It hurts, deeply, to see someone become so completely shocked and hurt and angry at something I've said, about... well, anything, somebody's mood or current activity or whatever... when I was misunderstanding from the beginning, and in fact there's something else wrong that has nothing to do with me that I would love to help with----if I weren't being ignored due to the fact that I just spent half an hour coming across as a thoughtless pig, because it was assumed that I'd pick up on something that I simply... didn't... and, I have to admit to myself, probably should have.

Aside from seeing a therapist... not because I'm unwilling to consider it, but because I'm already planning on it, as soon as I'm able... does anyone else, perhaps having had a similar problem in the past, have any advice on how to deal with this? I'm sick to death of offending people because they're sending out strong signals... but my radio's turned off.

Do you mean, perhaps, that you're certainly not going to act as if there's a problem, when no one brought one to your attention?

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Az, you'll find out down the line that you're okay. That there's really no problem. Don't let it traumatize you, in any way, it ain't worth it.

I've spent much of my life walking on eggshells. Now, my attitude is, they broke. Oh, well. Now what?

 

[Flatfoot]

I've spent much of my life walking on eggshells. Now, my attitude is, they broke. Oh, well. Now what?

LOL I like that! 😀

 

[crydun]

Az, you'll find out down the line that you're okay. That there's really no problem. Don't let it traumatize you, in any way, it ain't worth it.

I've spent much of my life walking on eggshells. Now, my attitude is, they broke. Oh, well. Now what?

LOL That's hilarious!

Perhaps Asperger's Az?

 

[starfires]

It hurts, deeply, to see someone become so completely shocked and hurt and angry at something I've said, about... well, anything, somebody's mood or current activity or whatever... when I was misunderstanding from the beginning, and in fact there's something else wrong that has nothing to do with me that I would love to help with----if I weren't being ignored due to the fact that I just spent half an hour coming across as a thoughtless pig, because it was assumed that I'd pick up on something that I simply... didn't... and, I have to admit to myself, probably should have.
...
I'm sick to death of offending people because they're sending out strong signals... but my radio's turned off.

I can relate to this. In addition to my naturally low empathy, I get the added benefit of living in a culture much different from the one I (ineffectively) learned from in my formative years. If you manage to fix this, more power to you. Otherwise, you probably won't like my advice, but it's the only one I've got: It's a disability -- treat it like one.

What I mean is best illustrated with an analogy: consider the interactions of the deaf. A functional deaf person goes to some lengths to facilitate his interactions with the hearing world: he spends a lot of time learning to speak the words he cannot hear, he learns to read lips, and he tells anybody he meets that he is deaf. But communication is a joint effort, and it requires the hearing partner to make some adjustments as well: he must face the deaf person (and put up with being stared at) while speaking, get the other's attention by touching him as opposed to yelling, and not expect him to perceive nuances of intonation. What it does not require is for the hearing partner to use small words, and to talk only about simple things. Hearing people are under no obligation to make this effort, but without it communication will not go well. Occasionally a deaf person runs across somebody who speaks illegibly or can't be bothered to face him while speaking, calls out to him across the room and gets angry when nothing happens, and generally treats him as a retard. So what does the deaf person do, feel miserable and apologize repeatedly for being deaf? Get angry at the other for being inconsiderate? No, he goes and talks to somebody else.

So what does this mean for you? I think it means you should learn to work around the problem. Tell people that you are bad at catching hints. Be specific: how bad, what kind of hints, and (if they are curious) what have you tried in order to get better at it. When you think you might be missing something, ask. Surround yourself with people who are willing to work with you. People who are incompatible with your condition (such as those who rely on nonverbal communication heavily, and get irrational when it isn't working) are just that -- incompatible (as opposed to evil, selfish, inconsiderate, etc.), so don't associate with them when you can help it.

 

[Capnmad]

Damn my natural inclination to help...

I was oscillating as to whether I should weigh in on this here, but I think I will, because it's important you get some benefit out of seeking help. I hope what I say is helpful.

I'll keep this in the same vague vein as your original post, for whatever your reasons -- likely courtesy.

Some well-meaning people contributing here have gone off the wrong direction, I think. It's because you introduced bias -- you're assuming you're responsible from the start (that's okay -- it's fairly typical for the honorable to assume responsibility and to attribute little to none to others in certain situations) -- the problem is, some of the respondents are assuming you're right, and you can't reach a sound conclusion when you start with faulty premises.

If you do get an opportunity to discuss this with a counselor of one sort or another, don't bias it. Describe the behaviors of both parties during these communication problems as objectively and perhaps even anonymously as possible (discuss it in third person, perhaps), and then see what they say. Don't attribute responsibility, or inject hindsight, or you'll have a greater likelihood of biasing your result.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't know the situation for sure -- maybe you are at fault. But the alternatives should at least be contemplated.

The problem with telling you it's not your fault is that you’re probably not going to take these people at their word, and may not even be of an open enough state of mind to seriously consider it. That’s okay. I remember what that's like. You’re like me -- analytical. You have to think it through to really internalize it. So try asking yourself:

1. When these communication problems occur, do I pursue the route of resolution, embracing as much as I can the virtues of calmness, ration and open dialogue so as to discuss, understand and manage or resolve them, or do I allow anger to cloud my judgement, taint my responses, and then shut down dialogue so that no problem can ever be addressed or resolved, thereby obstructing progress?

2. In times when communication has failed, do I seek to improve myself and my understanding (even soliciting advice, if need be), so as to return and better communicate with my friend, do I do nothing, or do I go off and rant, accomplishing only catharsis?

Decide for yourself what the best answers are, and see if you meet them. You can’t help that you’re flawed. We all are. What’s important is making the effort to acknowledge and manage these flaws (to the degree that they even contribute to this*). If you do, for what could you be at fault? You’re doing your best. Forget hindsight traps ("If only I'd done this..."). You’re doing all that could be expected of you at the time. If your friend(s) can’t understand or appreciate that, or meet you half-way, that’s their problem.

Also, ask yourself if these are real hints you're getting, or are what would be hints powerfully muted or even entirely hidden until after the flashpoint of anger is struck? That is, are these hints too soon followed (or actually preceded) by a poisoning anger on the part of the other party that sabotages any chance at real dialogue? Words might continue, but the real conversation might well be DOA before you even knew it needed a Band-Aid. Some people are very good at hiding their anger. And when they finally express it, it’s too late to do anything about it.

Everyone has a personal history that helped shape their behavior. For the most part, we can’t be held to blame for our personal histories, or what that history has engrained in us. But it is our responsibility to put forth the effort to behave as mature adults -- to exercise reason before judgement, to be as open and honest as prudence and ethics demand, and to communicate our thoughts, feelings and needs in ways that can be understood. Some people are burdened by their histories such that they have extraordinary trouble with some of these tasks, and so, are just really not yet fully able to interact efficiently with those who don’t have such difficulty. They're not bad people, they just need some time, work and experience to mature -- but that’s on their calendar, not yours.

Communication is an art. All it takes is one small deficiency to trip conversation up repeatedly ("It's not the mountain that'll do you in, but the grain of sand in your shoe"). If you've answered well for questions 1. and 2. posed above, then you're doing what you can to bridge that communication gap. Eventually, your friend will have to step up and do the same if they are to stay your friend.

One last opinion: "Letting it lie" is an option. But in my experience, it's a short-term solution to a long-term problem, because it largely ignores and glosses over the real issue. Maybe short-term is all you need. You all will come back to each other almost inevitably, if you're friends. Probably very -- even surprisingly -- shortly. But the problem will likely return as well. "Letting it lie" may only be useful over the long term if taken as helping define a fundamental shift in your relationship which includes much greater overall detachment and distance (building a different sort of friendship) -- but that's only speculation on my part. It's an approach I'd only begun to explore when it was suddenly too late and the relationship that your post reminds me of disintegrated beyond repair for reasons unrelated to my efforts.

Be careful. I wish you the best.




*It is this writer’s non-scientific hunch that you are likely not at fault, or at least, not remotely so much as you believe, and that these perceived flaws you seem to see in yourself are ordinary features not contributing significantly to the problems you describe.