Sobering thought about TOO MUCH Tickling

[BigJim]

Are we really going to use this thread to hash out the death penalty issue? I really don't want to go there.

No we aren't going to re-hash it. But it was a relevant side-subject that warranted a footnote. Nowt else.

What amazes me is that for everyone that has committed horrific crimes because of their past, there are many more who suffered abuse, molestation, incest, and many other unimaginable crimes against them that chose not to hurt others, not even the SOB's that abused them in the first place, including myself. Enough was taken away from me, and I didn't want my freedom taken away from me too. That is enough to keep me grounded, because I would owe a lot of people payback for the abuse that was heaped upon me. I had to learn to move on before the bitterness eventually would've killed me.

Indeed. As I said above, people who are subjected to that sort of thing and grow up relatively normal are truly wonderful human beings.

Although many of the people who are in jail now have a history of an abusive upbringing, they lacked the self-control and saw fit (chose) to hurt another human being (sometimes innocent, sometimes the perpetrator of the abuse).

Ah, responsibility...

As far as Charles Manson is concerned, he is an animal that got others to do his evil dirtywork. His flock killed several inncocent people including a pregnant woman. And he had no problem letting the others fry for his plotted crime spree. He is a psychopath that should've been boiled in oil! He is a waste of taxpayer dollars if I've ever seen one. No abusive upbringing and background excuses what he did at all! They've given the needle to far less violent criminals than him.

You don't like him then? 😀

Seriously though, what are the odds that Manson wouldn't have done the things he did if he hadn't been abused? Isn't it a more satidfying thought that we could learn from the mistakes of the past and prevent such cases in the future, instead of trying to set a pointless and 99% unheeded example to other potential killers by stooping down to their level?

That's all I really wanted to say. Before this turns into a death penalty thread, I'll simply agree to disagree. I'm still reeling from a couple of previous threads and I'm not much in a mood for a debate. Something else to think about, I guess.

You are? 🙁 Nothing to do with me I hope? I've been away for a week or so, so I don't think it's me. Wouldn't surprise me though.

The big thing is that everyone has personal responsibility. No-one can use their past history as an excuse for a fucked up attitude towards other people. No matter what your background, you have to conquer those inner demons and take responsibility for them.

Good post Kis. 🙂

 

[Oddjob0226]

Roman Polanski was and is still a pig, but what does that have to do with his then pregnant wife being tortured and killed by Manson's flock?

What I don't understand and what no one has successfully explained to me, is why didn't the people who experienced some of the same things as Manson (or worse) not kill innocent people or take their problems out on others?

What does it have to do with? Well, I think Polanski having survived the Nazi machine as a child, then coming to a foreign country and having his wife and unborn child killed may have, shall we say, affected him.... People pitch a fit nowdays if you use the wrong word in the workplace, imagine what this 'pig' faced inside his head.

Others don't become what Manson did becuase for one, what he underwent as a child and teen was exceptionally brutal and rare. Secondly, there are fluctuations between people. People are infinitely different, so their tolerances, thresholds, what their mind and body can take will be infinitely different. But because our biological make-up and basic core human experiences are the same, patterns can be seen. Anyone can be a criminal, but drop out kids, or children whose mothers used drugs during pregnancy, have a higher criminal rate. Anyone can run for congress, but wealthy white men are the ususal winners. Divorce is everywhere, but children for divorced familes are more likey to become divorced themselves later in life. Vastly different individuls, but predictable patterns within concentric circles of the bigger subcultures and societies. The argument then becomes: to recogize a pattern and attempt to alter it as a prevenetive measure, or let the pattern play out and act on the end result(s), or find a compromise in between, or is there even a 4th unknown or unexplored option.

 

[kis123]

What does it have to do with? Well, I think Polanski having survived the Nazi machine as a child, then coming to a foreign country and having his wife and unborn child killed may have, shall we say, affected him.... People pitch a fit nowdays if you use the wrong word in the workplace, imagine what this 'pig' faced inside his head.

Others don't become what Manson did becuase for one, what he underwent as a child and teen was exceptionally brutal and rare. Secondly, there are fluctuations between people. People are infinitely different, so their tolerances, thresholds, what their mind and body can take will be infinitely different. But because our biological make-up and basic core human experiences are the same, patterns can be seen. Anyone can be a criminal, but drop out kids, or children whose mothers used drugs during pregnancy, have a higher criminal rate. Anyone can run for congress, but wealthy white men are the ususal winners. Divorce is everywhere, but children for divorced familes are more likey to become divorced themselves later in life. Vastly different individuls, but predictable patterns within concentric circles of the bigger subcultures and societies. The argument then becomes: to recogize a pattern and attempt to alter it as a prevenetive measure, or let the pattern play out and act on the end result(s), or find a compromise in between, or is there even a 4th unknown or unexplored option.

Although your compassion for these individuals has impressed me to a certain degree, kis must continue to Keep It Simple. Manson is still one of the most sadistic and horrific murderers on record. Shannon Tate and the others are still dead. Polanski still raped an innocent 13year old girl. My mother grieved over 30 yrs over my dead sister so I can only imagine the families still grieveing over the loss of their family members. There are certain things in life that once you screw up, you can never take it back! These guys screwed up in the worst way!

I wonder if that 13 yr old girl ever grew up normal and healthy, or did the violence perpetrated against her has scarred her for life, like the violence heaped on Manson and Polanski. What stops the victims from becoming the perpetrators? I really do feel for the things they went through, but they committed heinous crimes, and Polanski fled from the law. No justice ever served there.