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The Big Politics/Religion Thread
- Thread starter BigJim
- Start date
Aw, there's a couple times we agreed completely. 😉 I'd bore ya if I were always agreeable, though.
Y'just seem t'have a great deal of data in your thoughts, and respond so well and positively to other thoughts that interactin' wit' ya is enjoyable. This subject is SO diverse in it's focus, with each individual, that it's reasonably complex, too. I dig that as well.
Peace,
dvnc
Y'just seem t'have a great deal of data in your thoughts, and respond so well and positively to other thoughts that interactin' wit' ya is enjoyable. This subject is SO diverse in it's focus, with each individual, that it's reasonably complex, too. I dig that as well.
Peace,
dvnc
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
thoughts on these issues.
well first we have all 3 no-no topics here; religion, politics, on a tickling (read sex) forum! what are you thinking man?!?!
first, politics. sorry but i have to respectfully disagree. i don't buy an ongoing select few controling all the governments/war through out history. things change too much for this to work. you have allegences, which come and go, and too much personal input for this theory to work. look at ww1, italy was on both sides! and america sold to both sides.
religion; now here i agree with you! religion is the bane of man. not god mind you, but organized religion is a curse upon us! it is perpetualted by scaring the crap out of us, and used as an excuse to pick our pockets! i say to hell with all organized religion!
steve
well first we have all 3 no-no topics here; religion, politics, on a tickling (read sex) forum! what are you thinking man?!?!
first, politics. sorry but i have to respectfully disagree. i don't buy an ongoing select few controling all the governments/war through out history. things change too much for this to work. you have allegences, which come and go, and too much personal input for this theory to work. look at ww1, italy was on both sides! and america sold to both sides.
religion; now here i agree with you! religion is the bane of man. not god mind you, but organized religion is a curse upon us! it is perpetualted by scaring the crap out of us, and used as an excuse to pick our pockets! i say to hell with all organized religion!
steve
Best part about this place is that we can disagree, and still be civil t'one another. Folks don't have to agree on EVERYTHING. Needin' that sort of thing can make a body lonely quickly, and repeatedly.
I do dig, too, Steve, where ya get specific. Organized religion squicks some folk, where such works for others. *shrug* I figure that those that dig such should do that, and leave those alone that don't. If folks learned t'do such, and stick to the laws and regulations of a town and the country in which it's placed, the world would be a happier place.
I do dig, too, Steve, where ya get specific. Organized religion squicks some folk, where such works for others. *shrug* I figure that those that dig such should do that, and leave those alone that don't. If folks learned t'do such, and stick to the laws and regulations of a town and the country in which it's placed, the world would be a happier place.
Hooray for the illuminati !
Hooray for the illuminati ! They are doing a good job it is just unfortunate that they are not powerful enough to keep everything under control yet.
Everything must be kept under control.
We are all beasts!
TMF is under control.
If there were no moderators this place would be a mess.
So the illuminati still need a bit more time to create the all seeing eye of Horus.
Hooray for the illuminati ! They are doing a good job it is just unfortunate that they are not powerful enough to keep everything under control yet.
Everything must be kept under control.
We are all beasts!
TMF is under control.
If there were no moderators this place would be a mess.
So the illuminati still need a bit more time to create the all seeing eye of Horus.
Re: thoughts on these issues.
Ah, but would'nt it look slightly TOO suspect if everything were hunky dorey on the surface Steve? And if it wasn't true throghout the ages, why do you think the major families of the world are all related to each other and are obsessed with interbreeding with each other? Why do you think George W. Bush has Prince Charles,JFK,Winston Churchill, The Queen Of England,LBJ, Bob Hawke, FDR, Al Gore and Jean Chretien(sp?) for distant cousins? It ain't a coincidence. It's also a wonder when you get people who are supposedly political opposites and enemies who are all members of the same groups: The Bilderberg Group, The Trilateral Comission, The Council On Foreign Relations, The Round Table, The Committee Of 300, the Royal Institute Of International Affairs etc. And what should be slightly more worrying is that it's not just politicians who all are members. Mary Whats-ername who owns the Washington Post is a member of the Bilderberg Group and the TC. Of course I'm sure they don't collaborate really, just a coincidence. 🙄 Conrad Black(Canada), Tony O'Reilly(Ireland) and Rupert Murdoch(Australia) are all three of them members of these groups; spending their time hob-nobbing with the political elite and swearing blood-oaths. Now when you bear in mind that these people are the ones who're supposed to tell us poor, ignorant, sons of bitches when the politicians who are their buddies have done something illegal or collaborative; don't you feel just the tiniest twinge of worry? Free press? No chance in hell! Any local writer or editor who steps out of line with something that isn't planned to come out, is looking for a new job the next damn day!
As for selling to both sides, well that is common throughout all wars in human history. Through the bank he was a director of, Prescott Bush (grandfather of the current pres) was one of Adolf Hitler's biggest financiers through the oil and steel businees of Fritz Thyssen in Switzerland. Financing both sides in a war, then lending them even more non-existent money to re-build afterwards (a practice invented by the Knight's templar, who had every monarch in Europe in debt to them at one point) is more common than spots with measles. Hell during the battle of Waterloo the Bank of England started a rumour via the Rothschild familly, that the French had won ( the French winning a war? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ) The result was that share prices in London crashed through the floor and the Rothschilds bought huge amounts of stocks worth f**k all. Two days later it emerged that Napoleon had been slaughtered ( back to normality after a bit of fantasy - heh heh ) and all those stocks they'd bought for nothing, were suddenyly worth twice the price they'd been worth a week before. Conspiracy? Nah, of course not. Just a coincidence.
It doesn't take much of a leap in credulity to think there is more to top-level society, than meets the eye is there? Or am I just the most paranoid human being in existence?
areenactor said:
Ah, but would'nt it look slightly TOO suspect if everything were hunky dorey on the surface Steve? And if it wasn't true throghout the ages, why do you think the major families of the world are all related to each other and are obsessed with interbreeding with each other? Why do you think George W. Bush has Prince Charles,JFK,Winston Churchill, The Queen Of England,LBJ, Bob Hawke, FDR, Al Gore and Jean Chretien(sp?) for distant cousins? It ain't a coincidence. It's also a wonder when you get people who are supposedly political opposites and enemies who are all members of the same groups: The Bilderberg Group, The Trilateral Comission, The Council On Foreign Relations, The Round Table, The Committee Of 300, the Royal Institute Of International Affairs etc. And what should be slightly more worrying is that it's not just politicians who all are members. Mary Whats-ername who owns the Washington Post is a member of the Bilderberg Group and the TC. Of course I'm sure they don't collaborate really, just a coincidence. 🙄 Conrad Black(Canada), Tony O'Reilly(Ireland) and Rupert Murdoch(Australia) are all three of them members of these groups; spending their time hob-nobbing with the political elite and swearing blood-oaths. Now when you bear in mind that these people are the ones who're supposed to tell us poor, ignorant, sons of bitches when the politicians who are their buddies have done something illegal or collaborative; don't you feel just the tiniest twinge of worry? Free press? No chance in hell! Any local writer or editor who steps out of line with something that isn't planned to come out, is looking for a new job the next damn day!
As for selling to both sides, well that is common throughout all wars in human history. Through the bank he was a director of, Prescott Bush (grandfather of the current pres) was one of Adolf Hitler's biggest financiers through the oil and steel businees of Fritz Thyssen in Switzerland. Financing both sides in a war, then lending them even more non-existent money to re-build afterwards (a practice invented by the Knight's templar, who had every monarch in Europe in debt to them at one point) is more common than spots with measles. Hell during the battle of Waterloo the Bank of England started a rumour via the Rothschild familly, that the French had won ( the French winning a war? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ) The result was that share prices in London crashed through the floor and the Rothschilds bought huge amounts of stocks worth f**k all. Two days later it emerged that Napoleon had been slaughtered ( back to normality after a bit of fantasy - heh heh ) and all those stocks they'd bought for nothing, were suddenyly worth twice the price they'd been worth a week before. Conspiracy? Nah, of course not. Just a coincidence.
It doesn't take much of a leap in credulity to think there is more to top-level society, than meets the eye is there? Or am I just the most paranoid human being in existence?
Hi Jim
You had asked for my point of view on your thread here, and I thought I'd go ahead and let you know how I feel. First of all I'll shut up about politics because I'm an ignoramous on the subject. As for your view on religon:
I can see how organised religon has caused problems for humanity throughout the course of history, has it done more evil then good? That's hard too say. But however I don't agree that religon (respectfully mind you, as a big green guy you can certainley kick my ass 😉) is the problem, I think the problem is man, religon just happens to be something that is easily corruptible, as is anything (government, organizations,etc.) when a man or men with their own agendas is put in power over it. You would certainley find after reading a literal translation of the bible that the atrocities that man commited were not supported by it, nor is it probably the case with the Islam religion, although I've never really read into it I've only heard what some of their religous leaders in this country had to say about the subject so I could be wrong about them. If we didn't have the institution of religon we certainley would have something else to take it's place (communism tried to do so if I remember correctly, as I said I'm an ignoramous on the subject of politics so please correct me if I'm wrong).
Also allow me to point out whom the earliest Christians were:
They were people trying to free others from the tyrannical grip of Rome. Trying to get people to think outside of what they were told was acceptable by the Romans, and laying their life on the line in the process because they believed humans should be free from that kind of oppression, which is alot of what Christs teachings covered.
In short they were trouble makers who personally liked to make massive waves and let people know that they were more valuable then their government gave them credit for. The Jewish underground of the time also attempted to do the same thing in a different way. Okay, after that whereisomley verbose description what point was I trying to make?
I think what I just described is what both the Jews and the Christians wanted their respective doctrines to be today: a ray of hope for others whom have none, a belief that there was something in life bigger then them and something to look forward to when they left this existance, that they were just as worthy as the next person, no matter how much money, political power, or status they had. Some even earlier religions taught similiar ideas (wish I had a link to show you, but I lost it in a format of my pc arrrrrrrgh!!!). My logic is that it is something that can be used for good or evil, it just depends on the men involved.
Anyway I also recall you saying at one time (in another thread) you had a thread regarding the origins of religion , I'd be very interested in reading it if you could give me a link.
Peace
-Phil
You had asked for my point of view on your thread here, and I thought I'd go ahead and let you know how I feel. First of all I'll shut up about politics because I'm an ignoramous on the subject. As for your view on religon:
I can see how organised religon has caused problems for humanity throughout the course of history, has it done more evil then good? That's hard too say. But however I don't agree that religon (respectfully mind you, as a big green guy you can certainley kick my ass 😉) is the problem, I think the problem is man, religon just happens to be something that is easily corruptible, as is anything (government, organizations,etc.) when a man or men with their own agendas is put in power over it. You would certainley find after reading a literal translation of the bible that the atrocities that man commited were not supported by it, nor is it probably the case with the Islam religion, although I've never really read into it I've only heard what some of their religous leaders in this country had to say about the subject so I could be wrong about them. If we didn't have the institution of religon we certainley would have something else to take it's place (communism tried to do so if I remember correctly, as I said I'm an ignoramous on the subject of politics so please correct me if I'm wrong).
Also allow me to point out whom the earliest Christians were:
They were people trying to free others from the tyrannical grip of Rome. Trying to get people to think outside of what they were told was acceptable by the Romans, and laying their life on the line in the process because they believed humans should be free from that kind of oppression, which is alot of what Christs teachings covered.
In short they were trouble makers who personally liked to make massive waves and let people know that they were more valuable then their government gave them credit for. The Jewish underground of the time also attempted to do the same thing in a different way. Okay, after that whereisomley verbose description what point was I trying to make?
I think what I just described is what both the Jews and the Christians wanted their respective doctrines to be today: a ray of hope for others whom have none, a belief that there was something in life bigger then them and something to look forward to when they left this existance, that they were just as worthy as the next person, no matter how much money, political power, or status they had. Some even earlier religions taught similiar ideas (wish I had a link to show you, but I lost it in a format of my pc arrrrrrrgh!!!). My logic is that it is something that can be used for good or evil, it just depends on the men involved.
Anyway I also recall you saying at one time (in another thread) you had a thread regarding the origins of religion , I'd be very interested in reading it if you could give me a link.
Peace
-Phil
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
gee jim, you make my own paranoia trivial!
i think if you'll look back at the time, and societal norms, the various royal families in europe intermarried on a regular basis. this was done chiefly for; marriages to seal treaties; royalty could only marry royalty. due to these factors, all the royal houses were related, and their decendents that went to the new world. i read once that your princes diane was related to george washington, and humphry bogart! personally, i think anything further apart than 2nd cousins is not longer blood relative.
i've heard of the t.c., and the iluminati for a long time. i read fiction books back in the 70's about those groups. i don't believe in their existance.
as to divergent groups being on boads, and societies togther. haven't you ever see two layers go hot and heavy in court, and look daggers at one another? only to see them in the hall 10 minutes later swapping jokes? when on the job they are miles apart, but when off duty, the have so much in common, that they can't help but be friendly. same thing applies with politicans, though i wish it didn't!
another common thread, these guys go for the dough (money)and what smart buisness man isn't going to try and have someone from both sides of the isle on his major corp. board to protect him? makes sense, don't it?
steve
i think if you'll look back at the time, and societal norms, the various royal families in europe intermarried on a regular basis. this was done chiefly for; marriages to seal treaties; royalty could only marry royalty. due to these factors, all the royal houses were related, and their decendents that went to the new world. i read once that your princes diane was related to george washington, and humphry bogart! personally, i think anything further apart than 2nd cousins is not longer blood relative.
i've heard of the t.c., and the iluminati for a long time. i read fiction books back in the 70's about those groups. i don't believe in their existance.
as to divergent groups being on boads, and societies togther. haven't you ever see two layers go hot and heavy in court, and look daggers at one another? only to see them in the hall 10 minutes later swapping jokes? when on the job they are miles apart, but when off duty, the have so much in common, that they can't help but be friendly. same thing applies with politicans, though i wish it didn't!
another common thread, these guys go for the dough (money)and what smart buisness man isn't going to try and have someone from both sides of the isle on his major corp. board to protect him? makes sense, don't it?
steve
Re: Hi Jim
Religion is the problem, because religion is man-made; not naturally spiritual. After reading some of the info I'll copy and paste into another post here, you'll see what I mean about it being regurgitated and symbollic. As for the Bible not endorsing the acts, according to it, God engineered them! With Soddam and Gomorrah he even nuked the second one without allowing the prophet dude a chance to find some worthy men in it. According to the texts, he only made it into one city and out, before the all-wise and merciful Lord blasted both of them. On top of that, the "Lord" puts words of the utmost racist hatred into Moses mouth. Most of those texts refer to brutal scenes of genetic cleansing. According to either Testament, the biggest racist, murderer, biggot and total and complete bastard of them all, was God himself! That ain't my God! The Bible, Torah, Vedas and Koran twist and warp true spirituality out of all place and recognition. It's a wonder that there are any nice Christians alive(such as the utterly nice Ann 😀😀😀) , when you consider what God expects them to do. Even Christ himself says, "I come not to bring peace, but the sword!"
As for Christians and Rome, well the story is slightly more warped than you'd believe! Christianity was barely accepted before Caesar Constantine adopted it after reputedly seeing a vision of a cross inscribes with the words, "in this sign, thou shall conquer". Total crap actually. For long after his "conversion to Christianity, Constantine was a devoted sun worshipper! His "deity" was Sol Invictus. (The unconquered sun.) And the whole shebang was cooked up by dozens of blokes, who all galloped to Nicea at top speed, to get in on the new scam at the start. These blokes argued and debated for yonks until they somehow managed to come up with an ill-fitting pile of poo called the ' Nicine Creed ', from which modern Christianity has become based.
When you read the info I'll copy and paste, you'll see why solar deities are so important to Christianity. It's because Jesus is a carbon copy of about 50 different deities from twice as many pagan religions and all continents of the world.
46and2 said:
Religion is the problem, because religion is man-made; not naturally spiritual. After reading some of the info I'll copy and paste into another post here, you'll see what I mean about it being regurgitated and symbollic. As for the Bible not endorsing the acts, according to it, God engineered them! With Soddam and Gomorrah he even nuked the second one without allowing the prophet dude a chance to find some worthy men in it. According to the texts, he only made it into one city and out, before the all-wise and merciful Lord blasted both of them. On top of that, the "Lord" puts words of the utmost racist hatred into Moses mouth. Most of those texts refer to brutal scenes of genetic cleansing. According to either Testament, the biggest racist, murderer, biggot and total and complete bastard of them all, was God himself! That ain't my God! The Bible, Torah, Vedas and Koran twist and warp true spirituality out of all place and recognition. It's a wonder that there are any nice Christians alive(such as the utterly nice Ann 😀😀😀) , when you consider what God expects them to do. Even Christ himself says, "I come not to bring peace, but the sword!"
As for Christians and Rome, well the story is slightly more warped than you'd believe! Christianity was barely accepted before Caesar Constantine adopted it after reputedly seeing a vision of a cross inscribes with the words, "in this sign, thou shall conquer". Total crap actually. For long after his "conversion to Christianity, Constantine was a devoted sun worshipper! His "deity" was Sol Invictus. (The unconquered sun.) And the whole shebang was cooked up by dozens of blokes, who all galloped to Nicea at top speed, to get in on the new scam at the start. These blokes argued and debated for yonks until they somehow managed to come up with an ill-fitting pile of poo called the ' Nicine Creed ', from which modern Christianity has become based.
When you read the info I'll copy and paste, you'll see why solar deities are so important to Christianity. It's because Jesus is a carbon copy of about 50 different deities from twice as many pagan religions and all continents of the world.
Re: gee jim, you make my own paranoia trivial!
As for not believeing that more than 2nd cousins matter, well that's a matter of opinion. You don't believe it, but any genetic scientist could tell you different. The fact that Dubya and Prince Charles are only 13th cousins doesn' mean that Dubya's blood got diluted. They both carry the same amount of royal genes, but happen to be from different sprigs of the same familly tree.
Ummmm, yes. If I looked back in time, I would find that to be exactly the norm. In fact that's exactly what I've been saying for months Steve. The fact that it still goes on, makes it slightly fishy. After all, aren't your genetics supposed to be less important than who YOU are in the land of freedom? Sadly it isn't true; as the genetic facts of all your presidents clearly prove. Unless you're related to the royalty and nobility of europe, you ain't got a blue prayer of becoming President of the United States.areenactor said:
As for not believeing that more than 2nd cousins matter, well that's a matter of opinion. You don't believe it, but any genetic scientist could tell you different. The fact that Dubya and Prince Charles are only 13th cousins doesn' mean that Dubya's blood got diluted. They both carry the same amount of royal genes, but happen to be from different sprigs of the same familly tree.
That's entirely your right, but they do exist. They've got letter heads, AGM's (of which you can see photos in any decent newsletter on corruption; such as the Bilderberg Group metting in Greece in 1996), clerical staff and official logos. As Manuel in Fawlty Tower might say......."Que?"areenactor said:
Yep I've seen it lots of times. I'm a bit puzzled why you said that because if anything, it supports what I'm saying rather than what you are. Both sides in every political game and ultimatley, every war, are controlled by the same people.areenactor said:
Ummmmmm............ nope. 😕 But hey, that's just me! 😀areenactor said:
Info on religion's origins for 46and2 .
Okay, who am I talking about here? His father was the king of the spirit world/heaven. He was the only begotten son of the chief deity. He was born of a virgin as a result of an immaculate conception. He was born on earth on December 25th and walked among men as a great king. He was a threat to the established order of the time. He was brutally murdered, laid dead in his tomb for 3 days and then came back to life. He reappeared to his followers and then ascended to rule the heavens at the side of his holy father.
Sounds like a simple question I'm sure. I'm even surer that every one of you would answer that I was talking about Jesus Christ. However, you wouldn’t be correct. All of the above have been attributed to an almost endless string of deities, of whom Jesus Christ is only one of the most recent. A few years ago, the Archbishop of Canterbury objected to having a Christmas tree in the cathedral because it was a pagan symbol. What makes that so funny is that the whole of the Christian religion is pagan! And not just Christianity either. Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and just about every pre-Christianity multi-theistic religion are all exactly the same. They all tell exactly the same story about exactly the same characters. The only difference is the names they give them. Now you might think that would be a perfect corroboration of official religious history, but again you wouldn’t be right. For millennia now, religion has been nothing (according to what I've studied) but a forcible hi-jacking of human spirituality; for the purpose of controlling masses of people by fear and guilt. The figures you'd read about in just about any religious story are at the very best, loosely based on real people. Often they are flat out fictional and nothing more. What is even worse is that a slightly different version of events has been peddled to different peoples, with the express intention of making sure they hate anyone else who doesn't share their own desperately limited vision.
To understand where the blueprint for control by religion came from, you have to look very closely at the oldest pagan religions, of ancient civilisations. The main focus for these was the sun. Whether it was Apollo, Ammon-Ra, Helios, Sol Invictus or whoever, the sun god was always highly venerated because the sun was so important. There were two reasons for this. Firstly it was because of the obvious dependency of civilisation upon the sun. It provided warmth and light; was directly responsible for how good the harvest would be. In all these ancient civilisations you had a trinity. A chief god, a female and a son figure, who walked amongst mortal men. In ancient Babylon these three were called Nimrod, Semiramis and their son, Tammuz. Tammuz was a "great king amongst men". He was murdered in his 30's by being hung on a tree with a lamb at his feet. They laid his corpse in a tomb and 3 days later the tomb was found open, with the body gone! I've definitely heard that somewhere before...........
And the thing is that this supposedly happened five to six thousand years BC!!!!!! As time passed there was the same theme in Egypt. There the trinity was Osiris, Isis and Horus. Osiris had an evil brother rebel against him in heaven (called Set or Seth) who murdered him. His sister Isis miraculously conceived a son by him, resurrected him and then bore the infant called Horus. This Horus chap was called a saviour, ruled amongst men, cast down the evil Set and restored his father's kingdom on earth. Horus also had 12 followers and was referred to as "the Kryst". Everything that dated from Babylon and Sumer from about 6,000-7,500 BC miraculously transported itself across to Egypt for the Pharohonic period. The legends were identical, but the names had changed. On a completely different landmass in Central America, you had an identical situation with Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca. But there's more............
In Phrygia there was born a "Son of the gods" called Attis. He was born on December the 25th to a virgin mother. He was referred to as "the Saviour of men, the only begotten Son" and he died to save humanity. He was "crucified" on a Friday and his blood was spilled to redeem the earth. He suffered "death with nails and stakes". He was the Father and Son combined in a human body. He was laid to rest, went down into the underworld, but three days later on the equivalent of March 25th, his body was found missing. Later on, he was found walking about again. His body was symbolised as bread, which was eaten by his followers as a sign of taking him into themselves.
In India there was a godling called Krishna. He was born to a virgin mother on December 25th. His father was a carpenter. A star hovered over his birthplace and there were shepherds and angels of heaven there. The local ruler slaughtered thousands of infants to try to eradicate him, but he somehow survived. He performed miracles, healed lepers, the sick, the lame and the blind. He died in his 30's, crucified on a tree or post. His close followers referred to him as "Jezeus" or "Jeseus" which translates as "pure essence". It is said in the writing of the Vedas that he will return on a white horse to judge the dead and fight the "Prince of Evil".
Then in Greece there was Dionysus/Bacchus. He was born to a virgin mother on December 25th; put in a manger and covered in swaddling. He was a teacher who traveled throughout the land performing miracles and healing. He turned water into wine. He rode into town on the back of an ass. (As did Seth from Egypt, funnily enough.) His monikers included the ram or lamb, God of the Vine, God of Gods and King of Kings, Only Begotten Son, bearer of sins, the Redeemer, the Anointed One (translated from the word "Christos") and the Alpha and the Omega. He was hung and crucified on a tree, but rose from the dead on March the 25th. He was worshipped in Jerusalem during the first century BC. A book called Antiquity Unveiled by J.M. Roberts says that "IES, the Phoenician name for Bacchus, offers the origin to Jesus." This chap reckons that IES can be broken up into I (meaning "the One") and ES. (Meaning fire and light.) When these two fragments are amalgamated then, it becomes IES which means "the one light". He then says, "This is none other than the light of St. John's Gospel; and this name is to be found everywhere on Christian altars, both protestant and catholic, thus clearly showing that the Christian religion is but a modification of Oriental sun worship, attributed to Zoroaster. The Christians read the same letters "IHS" in the Greek text as "Jes" and the Roman Catholic priesthood added the terminus "us".
And again, it doesn't finish there. Here is a slightly more complete list of deities and demi-deities, all of whom had similar or identical lives to "Jesus", or were involved in legends around the figure. Apollo, Hercules and Zeus of Greece; Adad and Marduk of Assyria; Buddha Sakia and Indra of India and Tibet; Salivahana of southern India and Bermuda; Osiris and Horus of Egypt; Balder and Frey of Scandinavia; Crie of Chaldea; Zoroaster of Persia; Baal (also known as Bel or Bil) and Taut of Phoenicia; Bali of Afghanistan; Jao of Nepal; Wittoba of Bilingonese; Xamolxis of Thrace; Zoar of the Bonzes; Chu Chulainn of Ireland; Deva Tat, Codom and Sammonocadam of Siam; Alcides of Thebes; Mikado of the Sintoos; Beddru of Japan; Hesus or Eros and Bremrillaham of the Druids; Thor, son of Odin of the Gauls; Cadmus of Greece; Hil and Feta of Mandaites; Gentaut and Quetzalcoatl of Mexico and Central America; Universal Monarch of the Sibyls; Ischy of Formosa; Divine Teacher of Plato; Holy One of Xaca; Fohi, Ieo, Lao-Kium, Chiang-Ti and Tien of China; Ixion and Quirnus of Rome; Prometheus of the Caucasus region; Mohammed or Mahomet of Arabia (only true Prophet, rather than Son); Dahzbog of the Slavs; Jupiter, Jove and Quirinus of Rome; Mithra of India, Persia and Rome.
The worship of the god Mithra pre-dates Christianity by literally millennia, but yet again tells the story that would later become Christianity in acute detail. It is even said that gold, frankincense and myrrh were offered as gifts to him. By the time that the character of Jesus was literally invented, the worship of Mithra and his rites were widespread throughout the Roman Empire. When they founded Christianity in Rome, they used the very symbols and rituals that had been the Mythric myth. Mithra's holy day of the week was Sun-day, because like Jesus he wasn't a real person, but a symbol that represents the sun. Mithra’s followers called this "the Lord's day" and they celebrated their main religious feast on what is now Easter in our calendar. Mythric initiations were held in a cave adorned with the signs of Capricorn and Cancer, being symbols of the winter and summer solstices. He was portrayed as a winged lion (a solar symbol or depiction in a lot of lands) standing within the coils of a spiraling serpent. The lion and serpent are and have been major symbols of power, religion and royalty all across the world, throughout the ages that humans have existed. The Roman church absorbed the Mithra Eucharist into its rituals and supplanted the whole religion in that region. Mithra was also recorded as saying......"He who shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood, so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved." Now that rings a very loud bell to me. The very site that the Vatican stands on was a massive site of Mithra worship. In a way it still is; they just re-named him Jesus.
So Mithra was a symbol for the sun and so was his Christian counterpart, Jesus. (The light of the world.) Jesus walks on water. (So does the sun's reflection if you want to get picky. lol) Jesus started his Father's work in the temple at the age of 12 and started his main ministry at 30. (The sun reaches its daily peak at 12 noon, hence Jesus was first known then, and it enters each zodiacal sign at 30 degrees, hence he starts his ministry at that age.) Jesus turned water into wine. (At the root of nature the sun does the same because it makes the vine grow.) There is soooooo much symbolism in these accounts and not least in the Bible itself; which is almost entirely pure symbolism. There are the fish, (Pisces) and the 12 disciples (sign of the zodiac) to name just two. To understand that last one, look at a picture of Da Vinci's painting "The Last Supper." We are very much talking two levels of knowledge here. In the most basic form, the people worshipped the sun because of its effect on the crop; but the people in the know who were doing the manipulating worshipped it because they understood its power over nature entirely. This is where we start talking about secret societies and conspiracy theories I'm afraid. Leonardo Da Vinci was very high up as an initiate of secret societies as they existed in his day, and he certainly understood what Jesus really was. When you look at that painting, you can see Jesus sitting in the centre and the 12 disciples gathered with 6 on either side of Him. Look even closer and you'll notice that the 12 disciples are gathered in 4 groups of 3 men. (They're actually huddled into these groups pretty obviously, so it isn't too hard to spot if you're looking for it.) The painting is wholly symbolic of the sun (Son) surrounded by the 12 signs of he zodiac! The reason they're gathered in 4 groups of three is because they symbolise the 4 seasons of the year, with three months in each one.
Then let's take the Pisces and fish symbolism even further. Jesus was referred to as the "fish" and the "fisher of men". Perhaps this may have been because at the time that he was alleged to have been born, the Earth was entering the sign of Pisces. Because there is so much symbolism for Jesus and all the other gods associated with similar tales throughout history, we really can't afford to ignore any possible connection with fish-like or amphibious gods, of ancient peoples. The Nommo of the Dogon people and also the Annedoti were both like this. Also, their respective worshipers claimed they came from the star we call Sirius.
And here's another part that makes a nonsense of religion. The most widely used, translated and debated version of the Bible, is the King James version. A survey by the church in the 19th century discovered that the KJB had, wait for it............NEARLY 40,000 TRANSLATION ERRORS!!!!! One of the most noticeable of these errors was the translation of the word "Elohim". This was taken to be the singular "God". However the word for God was "Elo". The h-i-m part pluralises it, which means that the bible should have been referring to "the gods" instead of "God". Big difference. This makes more sense when you try to compare Christianity, Islam and Judaism which all have the same roots, with the much older, multi-theistic, pagan religions. (It also makes "the Son of God" into "the sons of the gods". Perhaps that refers to the Nephilim of the book of Genesis?) Another big-time translation error was the translation of "the end of the world". (Armageddon.) The word for world was mistranslated from the Greek word “aeon" and refers to the end of an age, not the whole world. The "end of the age" refers to the earth astronomical/astrological progression from one sign of the zodiac to the other. We are soon to leave the age of Pisces and enter the Age of Aquarius. I think this progression more or less syncs with the Mayan's prediction of the end of the age/world as they knew it in 2012. Expect big changes soon then! Perhaps this is why people are beginning to discover their spiritual abilities again, instead of living in fear and guilt?
The deeds attributed to Jesus Christ are huge and momentous. Someone like him would have been a serious thorn in the side of whoever held the reigns of power at the time He lived. However, not all seems to gel on this point. Outside of the books of the New Testament, there is no record, sign or account of Jesus Christ anywhere. A brief mention in the words of a Hebrew scholar/historian called Josephus is a rather blatant and obvious attempt at the priesthood trying to cross reference their meal ticket. There are literally scores of writers, historians and philosophers who laid down the history of the Israel/Palestine area at the time Jesus is said to have lived and NOT ONE OF THEM mentions him in so much as a footnote. Philo was alive and kicking through Jesus' whole "life" and wrote extensively about the Judeans. This covered the whole period. The man lived in or near to Jerusalem all throughout the time that Jesus was born of immaculate conception, wowed the elders in the temple, performed miracles and healings, overturned he money lenders tables, drove out demons, nearly gave the local authorities multiple heart attacks, was crucified, returned to life and ascended to heaven. Quite a life. And what does Philo say about this larger than life character, who so dominated his time and place? ABSOLOUTLEY NOTHING!!!!!!! Not a jot! Nada! Naff all! Nowt! Zilch! That's less likely than Mike Tyson turning vegetarian! It is exactly the same with all the very complete Roman records, and the work of all of Philo's prominent contempories. There is no simple answer, just a very blunt one from my perspective. These events never happened, because there was no "Jesus". The man himself is symbolic of the sun, and his deeds and miracles are symbolic of the sun's power because of its importance in pagan religion. And the main reason that the hierarchy of these religions worshipped the sun wasn't because of its effect on the crop, although that is very important, obviously. It was because they understood the power of the sun's electromagnetism. After light and heat, this is the sun's most effective power on our planet. The sun is quite simply, boiling with electromagnetism. The earth itself it crisscrossed with electromagnetic meridians that were known as "ley lines" in the olden days. On top of that, every living cell on the planet is a conductor of electromagnetic energy. Now this is the power that makes that train in France levitate!!!!! Electromagnetism can do that! It can also transfer information via an electromagnetic wave through the air. Military communications do this all the time. (At least EXTREMELY important ones do.) Now if you can picture a human being who is so in tune with this process that his or her body can channel the energy in the same way that a train or transmitter does; you have scientific explanations for telekinesis and telepathy! Not myth! Not science fiction! Not hogwash! FACT! The sun vastly affects the earth's meridian grid all the time. Whenever two or more of these meridians cross each other, you get a vortex point of seriously intense energy. It's also at places like this that you'll find monuments like Stonehenge, Avebury, the Giza plateau and the temple at Ankhor Wat in south east Asia. These things were massive harnessing focuses for the earth's natural powers! So why haven’t we still got them today? You might ask. We have. They're all over the world at points where energy meridians meet. And what's more they're even designed after the fashion of the old esoteric structures, because every shape has a vibration and a wavelength that affects this energy. Egypt is the most ready example to hand. The male energy was represented by an obelisk, symbolic of the penis of Osiris; which was severed by Seth's sword. The female energy was represented by a dome or bowl, symbolic of Isis's womb. Typical male/female energy representations. These symbols were the focused representations of the manipulated energy; the natural energy itself was often depicted as a river. Hence the Egyptians would often build an obelisk on one side of the Nile and a symbol of Isis on the other. Well one of the biggest "vortex points" in Europe is in the British Isles, under the City of London. Now get this......near Oxford, the Thames river is referred to as "the Isis". Coincidence? Possibly. But follow it into the city and then stop when we get to the financial district. On one side of the river you have Canary Wharf, the biggest obelisk in the country and right across the river from it, (a stones throw almost exactly) you have the Millennium Dome. In the space of a few hundred square yards you have the river, the obelisk and the dome. The trinity. The father, mother and the product. Massive symbolism on a scarily modern scale. Why the hell would modern architects be following designs practiced in ancient Egypt? I would suggest the answer is because the people who designed the damn things knew perfectly what they represented. What we're talking about is knowledge on two levels, all over again! And I can feel the "I word" coming up pretty soon.
When I use the term "Elite" I'm not talking about any one group, or society. I'm referring to all of them as a whole. The whole upshot of this thread is that these people knew the power of nature and the cosmos. If it's a power that gives normal, ordinary people the sort of abilities that this forum was created to promote, then it would frighten people who had created religion after religion on pure symbolism, and murdered anyone who didn't take it literally. Some of the people here are religious in the conventional sense. That's fine; I don't decry that at all. But when you get to the bare bones of any of the major religions, you see nothing but hate, murder, racism, damnation and fear. According to the Bible itself, the biggest and most prolific racist and bigot of them all was God Himself! It makes me damn angry to think that someone could twist Divine Spirit into such a horrible misrepresentation. The people here who believe in Jesus, but promote the values of this forum, (patience, tolerance, psychic ability etc) are wonderful people, but don't fit the original mould of religion at all. It was the character called Jesus Himself who said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword!" Conventional religion was a deliberate creation. It was created to imprison humanity and disconnect it from its infinite power and possibility. That's why so many poor souls were murdered in the name of "God". But it's ending, the stranglehold is breaking. The people who use this forum are the proof of that. Humanity as a whole can hear the ticking of some cosmic, spiritual alarm clock that is waking them up. I think personally that is why so many people who think of themselves as Christians (including me about 3 years ago) do not fit the description at all.
Before I sign off from this mammoth thread, here is one more point about Jesus the Son/sun of God/the gods that I would like to make. As is widely accepted, the sun was the focus of ancient religion and as I've said I believe, Jesus is symbolic of it; not a factual person. Well one of the biggest holy days of any pagan calendar was the winter solstice. It was the holiest because it was the end of one solar year and the start of the next. On December 21st-22nd the sun had reached it's nadir in the northern hemisphere. (Where most ancient civilisations were located.) The ancients said it had "died". By even the most rudimentary of observations/calculations it had begun its journey back to life and its full summer strength, by the time 3 days had passed. The pagan/ancients would then have a massive celebration of the sun's rebirth on their calendar’s equivalent of December the 25th. So let's re-cap...........
1/ The sun/Son dies.........
2/ It spends three days dead or in the underworld.......
3/ It then is re-born/born anew........
4/ And the sun's birthday would then have been on.........DECEMBER 25TH!!!!
That is why symbolic deity after symbolic deity was born on that date; in civilisation after civilisation; millennium after millennium. That is why Christianity took all the festival dates from the pagan calendar and that is why the Archbishop of Canterbury dropped a clanger when he said Christmas trees were pagan. Christianity IS pagan!
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The Bible alleges that St. Peter (the "Rock" as he is sometimes known) was the first ever Pontiff (Pope) and thus founded Christianity as more than just as side-sect of Judaism. This would have made it a religion in its own right. However, given the compelling evidence of most biblical characters being fictional (One Babylonian myth tells the story of a chap called Sargon, who was found by a princess, floating in a woven basket on the river: he was subsequently adopted by the royal family!!! Scary eh?) I believe I do know who really created Christianity. This particular religion was largely written by the Levite priesthood, with large chunks of the gospels being written by the Piso family. But there's more to come; as you mentioned one of the alleged deeds of one disciple, I'll go into several personal biographies of these and other, related characters. Before I do though, there's one thing I forgot to mention in the previous lengthy post. The main holy symbol of Christianity is the cross. This is because Jesus was crucified on one, according to the gospels. I would however suggest a different reason. As I've already said, Jesus was, in my opinion, the latest in a long line of solar-related deities, who were symbolic of the power of the solar globe. So if you look at a depiction of the solar system, you'll see that each body in it has a symbol. Earth is a circle with a dot; Neptune is represented by the trident with a slightly crooked stem. The sun is represented by another circle, overlaid with the symbol of....... A CROSS!!!!!! On top of this, look at any depiction, painting or statue of a holy figure. Nine times out of ten, they're depicted with a halo around their heads. However, Good the Father and Jesus the Son/sun both have certain “uniqueness” about their haloes. They are both decorated with......... A CROSS!!!! Now God the Father has nothing to do with the symbol. It's His son who is, because of the crucifixion tale. Yet both are shown with a (solar) cross in their haloes. I would suggest that is because of the sun symbolism in religion. It would also be worth mentioning that many cultures from the Babylonians, to the Phoenicians and the Sumerians depicted the sun as being symbolised by a cross. More than just a coincidence I would suggest. I would say that is the reason the cross features in the crucifixion story. Not because a man called Jesus was really nailed to one; but because of the solar sign in religion. On top of which, something else smells a bit funny about the crucifixion story. Jesus was crucified between two thieves, who were also crucified. This could NOT have happened, because crucifixion wasn't the Roman punishment for thievery. There were lawd alone knows how many different methods of execution in the Roman Empire, but crucifixion and larceny did NOT mix. Anyway, on to specific figures from the gospels.......
Mary(s): Mary is a very ancient name for the goddess who gives birth via a miracle to the saviour Sun God. There are several variants in different languages and cultures. Among them are Mari, Meri, Marratu, Marah and Mariham. In one aspect these names refer to the sea, ("mare" in the Latin root) known as Mer or Mar and "Mary" itself refers to the feminine energy. This was often depicted as a goddess from the sea or waters, the moon or something else. The idea was that the feminine balanced the masculine power of the sun. But they also relate to the Dragon queens of Sumer, Babylon etc. Isis, the Egyptian moon goddess and virgin mother to Horus, was also known as Mother Mary or "Mata Meri" in the original. She was also called "The Queen of Heaven", "Our Lady" and "Mother of God". The goddess El in the Edda texts was also called Mary from time to time. The ancient Hebrews worshipped a god/goddess character called Mari-El, or "Mary-God/god". The "Mother Mary" of Christianity is just another regurgitated figure who was known as El, Isis, Barati, Ishtar, Britannia, Artemis, Semiramis and Diana. The Christian religion like its bed-mate Judaism, sought to remove the feminine principle from the public domain, which caused the tried and tested trinity of father-mother-son to be replaced by father-son-holy ghost. An utterly grotesque suppression of women would follow, justified by the invented words of a mythical St. Paul. "Wives submit to your husbands for the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the Church. Now if the church submits to Christ so should wives submit to their husbands in everything." This is also joined by, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Nice guy. I can imagine him and Germaine Greer having some very friendly chats over a cup of tea. Such words were written in truth, by the initiated priesthood to drip-feed suppression of the female into any culture that it was present in. What is even worse is that this sexist attitude can still be seen today. Ann Widdicombe is one very messed up woman, who is a member of the government. When the CoE decided to allow women vicars, she left and joined the Roman Catholic Church! And this is the sort of person who claims to be intelligent enough to be a part of running our country? Excuse me, I need a bucket. The people in the know (the "Elite" if you will) set out to systematically remove the feminine principle from society. When you bear in mind that it's this energy that lets us (even men) connect with our higher levels of being and our true spirituality, it becomes understandable. Unrestrained male energy is overwhelmingly present in the physical world and without the feminine to balance it; it becomes isolated from its deeper levels of being. Someone being described as a "Macho Man" is typical of this. But behind the scenes, there has been covert worship of this for many a long year. Symbolised in Freemasonry as Isis or the Dragon queens, because the people in the know, really do know the true power of the female energy. Mary Magdalene is another good example. This Mary was a reformed prostitute and is another classic example of goddess symbolism. She is also portrayed as the Great ********** of Babylon. (Or Mari-Anna-Ishtar) A ritual involving a "Sacred Harlot" or high priestess anointing a saviour-king-godling goes back to Sumer and Babylon. If you believe in Atlantis and Lemuria, then symbolism of it is found there too. It was a pagan priestess who pronounced the resurrection of Osiris, Attis, Dionysius and Orpheus, just as Mary Magdalene would go on to be the first person to see (and hug, so he was again depicted as being solid and not spirit) the resurrected Jesus Christ. It's all symbolism from the ancient multi-theistic religions and it was used to create a mythical hero and heroine for a manufactured prison-religion.
The Three Wise Men & the Bright Star: I'm sure that even the non-christians amongst us will know this one. The Bible tells of a bright star marking the place of Christ's birth. Exactly the same story was told in ancient Egypt, using the star Sirius. (This is the brightest star we can see from Earth, from any place, at any time of the year.) Ancient Egyptian religious texts say that when the highly significant constellation of Orion (for them in particular) appeared above the horizon, it presaged the arrival of Sothis or Sirius; the star of Horus and Osiris. (Also associated with Isis in Freemasonry, who refer to it as "The Silver Star".) Further symbolism of the "three wise men" is that the Magi were sun worshippers. Gold, frankincense and myrrh were the traditional gifts by Arabian Magi to the Sun and that's why you have 3 wise men giving these gifts to Mithra and Jesus in different versions of the same myth. The birth of Jesus in a cave (and indeed being laid to rest in one) is one that is repeated through many if not all, of the solar religion myths. The cave represents the "dark place" where the sun goes between the winter solstice and the night of December 24th. This is also symbolic of Jesus going down to the underworld when his physical body was lying in the tomb for 3 days. That's where the whole story comes from.
Being tempted in the Wilderness for 40 Days: This is a VERY common theme for solar gods. A researcher called Albert Churchwood writes that the Egyptians guess-timated it took 40 days after grain was "sown" before it appeared through the soil. This would be a period of fasting and scarcity. So Jesus is depicted as fasting in the wilderness and "Satan" challenges him to turn stones into bread. The battles between the light and the darkness and also when Jesus defeated the darkness is symbolic of the time in the sun's cycle when there is more darkness each day than there is daytime. The 40 years the Israelites were supposed to have spent in the desert is more grain symbolism turned into a manufactured and allegedly "historical" text.
The Words Jesus Spoke: They weren't in any way original for a start. They were repeated from a whole line of similar solar deities. Horus delivered a Sermon on the Mount in Egyptian myth and the version with Jesus in is just an updated version with the same sayings. Some of them even come from earlier texts IN THE SAME BOOK! The books of Enoch for example. Change parts of them into a narrative and you've got the gospels to a tee.
The Crucifixion: Many of these mythical solar deities were crucified to save the sins of the people. It is a very old ritual, predating Christianity by millennia. Jesus on the cross represents the sun at the spring equinox in one way and the dying god, Balder, in another. The crown of thorns is symbolic of a halo, which ancient cultures have always depicted around the heads of their solar deities. (A standing stone in England with a Sumerian/Phoenician depiction of Bel/Bil on it springs to mind.) On top of this, the cross being a religious symbol, was not unique to Christianity at all. It was used thousands of years before 1 BC. Even Jesus said to his disciples "pick up thy cross and walk" before the idea of crucifixion had entered the scene at all. Indeed the idea of a religious man/godling nailed to a cross was so familiar to pagan religions that early Christians rejected the idea! The god from Central America, Quetzalcoatl, was depicted nailed to a cross many times. The cross is symbolic of the equinox when day hours and night hours are equal, and the sun is about to win its victory over the darkness. At the moment Jesus dies, according to the Bible, the land became dark. So it would have done if the son had "died". (As it was symbolically doing.) As for the resurrection after three days, well we've covered that before in great detail. In Persia (long before 1 BC again) there was a ritual when a young man, apparently dead, was restored to life. He was called the Saviour and his sufferings were said to ensure the salvation of the people. The priests would watch the tomb until midnight on the equinox, when they would cry "Rejoice, O sacred initiated! Your god is risen. His death ad suffering have worked your salvation." The same was said in Egypt of Horus and in India of Krishna. Both religions pre-date Christianity by ages. And going back to the two thieves. This is symbolism again. As I've already said thieves weren’t crucified in Rome anyway; they are probably symbolic of Sagittarius and Capricorn, which swap over at the winter solstice. Thus, the sun "dies" between them.
John The Baptist: This guy was a recreation of a dude called Anup, who baptised Horus in Egyptian legend. Like john, Anup lost his head. Indara/Thor of royalty in Sumer was also known as "Bil-The-Baptist" on Sumerian seals and was also known as Ad or Atum baptising the infant crown prince on Egyptian sculptures. Baptism was introduced by the Sumerians, but the Christians. It appears to have originated in the post cataclysmic era in the Phoenician/St. George area of Cappadocia. John the Baptist and his association with water further cements his relationship with the water sign, Aquarius; the sun travels through there to be "baptised" according to myth. The sun enters Aquarius at 30 degrees and Jesus gets dunked by John at 30 years old. The zodiac circle of Greek fame was renamed Crown Of The Circle Of The Holy Apostles (zodiacal representations) by medieval monks and they placed John the Baptist where Aquarius is located. King Arthur and the 12 Knights of the Round Table are also sun and zodiacal symbolism, as is Horus and his 12 followers. In the Julian calendar of the Romans, John the Baptist dies on the 29th of August. In the book Christianity Before Christ by John Jackson, he says "On that day, a specially bright star, representing the head of the constellation of Aquarius, rises while the rest of the body is below the horizon, at exactly the same time as the sun sets in Leo (the kingly star-sign, representing Herod). Thus the latter beheads John, because john is associated with Aquarius, and the horizon cuts off the head of Aquarius!" The reference to the "man carrying the water pitcher" in Luke's Gospel is more Aquarial symbolism, John the Baptist is an exact duplication of Bala-rama, the fore0runner of Krishna. No big surprise.
The 12 Disciples: As David Icke that much vilified and ridiculed author, says in Children Of The Matrix "Is there a universal law that all deities must have 12 disciples or followers?" However much people laugh about the interview with Terry Wogan, that is a very pertinent question. Jesus had 12, so did Buddha, King Arthur(at any one time- there are more than 12 knights named in the legends of course), Mithra too, Dionysus and so did many other symbols of the sun. There were the 12 sons of Jacob, 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 chief gods of the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and Persians. This fixation with 12 develops again and again from solar symbolism; with their disciples and followers representing the months of the year and the signs of the zodiac. Indeed, the Romans openly symbolised the sun as a man's face and the zodiacal signs as his followers. During summer the man's face would be pictured as long haired, representing the strong rays. During the winter, they'd be cut short. Remember the story of Samson? The bloke who was a Nazerite and was strong when his hair was long, but weak when it was short? You know what "Samson" translates into crude English as? The "son of the sun god". For Samson, read Sam-SUN. His story goes wrong when he enters the house of Delilah. This is symbolic of the house of Virgo, which the sun enters as autumn approaches in the northern hemisphere. It ends when he pushes down the twin pillars in the temple. Twin pillars are heavy Freemasonic symbols. Nearly as much so as the "all seeing eye" you can see on a USA $1 bill. Ever wondered why most of the world's economy was strategised from the NYTC? Picture the place in your mind, (as it was before 9/11) and then back off. Notice anything about the design that is relevant? Thought you might. Another example of sacred architecture in modern civilisation. The Canary Wharf/Thames/Millennium Dome is another one I mentioned earlier. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John after whom the gospels are named represent the four cardinal signs of the zodiac. They are also symbolised in cathedrals as a man (Aquarius), an ox (Taurus), a lion (Leo) and an eagle (Scorpio), together referred to as the four creatures of the apocalypse. In a book called Forgery In Christianity, Joseph Wheless says... "The Holy Twelve had no existence in the flesh, but their "cue" being taken from Old Testament legends, they were mere names-dramatis personae-mask of the play-of "tradition", such as Shakespeare and all the playwrights and fiction-writers create for the actors of their plays and works of admitted fiction." In ancient versions of today’s secret societies (which are known to go back at least to Egypt and probably further) the spokesperson for the god was called a PETR. (Pronounced Peter.) This translates as "rock". I can imagine the vicar choking on his tea right now. In the Egyptian "Book Of The Dead", the name of the doorkeeper of heaven is Petra. Careful vicar, you'll spill it all over the carpet.
St. Paul: This seems like a vicious circle. The only single record of the existence of anyone called St. Paul or Saul of Tarsus is within the New Testament. It's the same with Jesus, the same with the lot of them. (Including the leading lights of the Old Testament.) The Roman historian Seneca was the brother of the Achaian proconsul when "Paul" was alleged to have spoken there. But, although Seneca noted many incredibly mundane things (by comparison) he doesn't mention a smegging word about Paul's public crusade. Okay, it's quiz time again. Who am I referring to? He lived in Tarsus (a part of Asia Minor) as a young boy; he traveled to Ephesus where he spoke in front of enormous crowds and performed miracles; before traveling on to Athens and Corinth. Then he went on to Rome, where he was accused of treason, before going on to what is now Spain, then Africa. He then returned to Sicily and Italy. He was then dragged off to Rome and imprisoned; a place from which he heroically escaped. Sounds just like St. Paul right? Nope. This was a story told about a Greek figure called Apollonius of Tyana. (Who oddly enough, was referred to as a "Nazarene" in some accounts.) In the Latin language, his name translated into Apollus and Paulus!! Scary eh? Also the scary journey that Paul had by sea on the way to Rome, was a duplicate of what allegedly happened to a Jewish historian called Josephus. This story has been repeated time than The Towering Inferno.
Phew! I'm sure there's more I'll remember or dig up, as this thread progresses, but for now I'm too tired to try. It's 1 AM and I've been on this post for 3 hours. I would really like some insightful comments from other people here. If you do believe in the Bible story (even if you reject organised religion, as a lot of you do) please tell me what the flaw in my research (and the research of the authors I researched) is. Tell me why you think I'm wrong.
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The "don't question God" or the "because it's in the Bible" responses are much like the "because I said so!" response you get when you're a kid and you ask an adult a problematic or complicated question. It usually means the person saying it is too narrow-minded to think of anything intelligent to say. Either that, or there is literally NOTHING to say, because what they're defending has been demolished by logic. (Or at least what we perceive as logic.) It's a natural and very healthy human instinct to question and probe into things that we don't completely understand, and it would be deeply saddening if your experiences stopped you doing that. From the limited info you gave us, it sounds like your mother is deeply institutionalised into strict, fundamental Christianity. Now I wouldn’t recommend that you deliberately try to force your opinions down her throat, because that will only drive a wedge between the two of you. If the views that you eventually form are too contradictory to hers, then just try to avoid discussion of the subject. One of the biggest pleasures there are in life, are the bonds between us and our close family. I'd hate to think of anyone being ostracized from either of their parents; so try to keep the waters calm. But that doesn't mean you should give your mind away and become an automaton either! You should always question yourself about what you believe and think about spirituality a lot. I think some people would believe from reading what I wrote that I'm saying there is no such thing as spirit or spiritualism. Nothing could be further from the truth! Spiritualism is the biggest power each, individual, human being has. Connection to it is the thing that can free any human, from ANY bond; spiritual or physical. I talked a lot about the power of the sun's electro-magnetism earlier; well the etheric body is PURE electro-magnetism! That's why a living human has an electro-magnetic charge and a corpse doesn't! We know that you can't destroy energy, only convert it into another expression, so where does that energy go when someone dies? Into other planes and dimensions of existence I would suggest.
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Okay 46and2, that's what I found of my previous scribbling in about 20 minutes. There might be more on other threads, but I think it would be all variations on the same theme. All the previous legends of Christ like figures in pagan religions weren't prophecy of something to come, as Omega claimed. They are unequivocally religions set down in the distant past, when they were being worshipped. In other words, they'd already reputedly happened. I don't think there can be any evidence more damning about how we've been robbed of our spiritual power, by being hounded into these prison-religions. As their hold on the people weakened, conventional "science" was brought in to replace them. This "science" doesn't explain human spirituality truly, any more than religion does. It's just another pathetically limited attempt, to rob us of what it is our free-born right to know!
Okay, who am I talking about here? His father was the king of the spirit world/heaven. He was the only begotten son of the chief deity. He was born of a virgin as a result of an immaculate conception. He was born on earth on December 25th and walked among men as a great king. He was a threat to the established order of the time. He was brutally murdered, laid dead in his tomb for 3 days and then came back to life. He reappeared to his followers and then ascended to rule the heavens at the side of his holy father.
Sounds like a simple question I'm sure. I'm even surer that every one of you would answer that I was talking about Jesus Christ. However, you wouldn’t be correct. All of the above have been attributed to an almost endless string of deities, of whom Jesus Christ is only one of the most recent. A few years ago, the Archbishop of Canterbury objected to having a Christmas tree in the cathedral because it was a pagan symbol. What makes that so funny is that the whole of the Christian religion is pagan! And not just Christianity either. Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and just about every pre-Christianity multi-theistic religion are all exactly the same. They all tell exactly the same story about exactly the same characters. The only difference is the names they give them. Now you might think that would be a perfect corroboration of official religious history, but again you wouldn’t be right. For millennia now, religion has been nothing (according to what I've studied) but a forcible hi-jacking of human spirituality; for the purpose of controlling masses of people by fear and guilt. The figures you'd read about in just about any religious story are at the very best, loosely based on real people. Often they are flat out fictional and nothing more. What is even worse is that a slightly different version of events has been peddled to different peoples, with the express intention of making sure they hate anyone else who doesn't share their own desperately limited vision.
To understand where the blueprint for control by religion came from, you have to look very closely at the oldest pagan religions, of ancient civilisations. The main focus for these was the sun. Whether it was Apollo, Ammon-Ra, Helios, Sol Invictus or whoever, the sun god was always highly venerated because the sun was so important. There were two reasons for this. Firstly it was because of the obvious dependency of civilisation upon the sun. It provided warmth and light; was directly responsible for how good the harvest would be. In all these ancient civilisations you had a trinity. A chief god, a female and a son figure, who walked amongst mortal men. In ancient Babylon these three were called Nimrod, Semiramis and their son, Tammuz. Tammuz was a "great king amongst men". He was murdered in his 30's by being hung on a tree with a lamb at his feet. They laid his corpse in a tomb and 3 days later the tomb was found open, with the body gone! I've definitely heard that somewhere before...........
And the thing is that this supposedly happened five to six thousand years BC!!!!!! As time passed there was the same theme in Egypt. There the trinity was Osiris, Isis and Horus. Osiris had an evil brother rebel against him in heaven (called Set or Seth) who murdered him. His sister Isis miraculously conceived a son by him, resurrected him and then bore the infant called Horus. This Horus chap was called a saviour, ruled amongst men, cast down the evil Set and restored his father's kingdom on earth. Horus also had 12 followers and was referred to as "the Kryst". Everything that dated from Babylon and Sumer from about 6,000-7,500 BC miraculously transported itself across to Egypt for the Pharohonic period. The legends were identical, but the names had changed. On a completely different landmass in Central America, you had an identical situation with Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca. But there's more............
In Phrygia there was born a "Son of the gods" called Attis. He was born on December the 25th to a virgin mother. He was referred to as "the Saviour of men, the only begotten Son" and he died to save humanity. He was "crucified" on a Friday and his blood was spilled to redeem the earth. He suffered "death with nails and stakes". He was the Father and Son combined in a human body. He was laid to rest, went down into the underworld, but three days later on the equivalent of March 25th, his body was found missing. Later on, he was found walking about again. His body was symbolised as bread, which was eaten by his followers as a sign of taking him into themselves.
In India there was a godling called Krishna. He was born to a virgin mother on December 25th. His father was a carpenter. A star hovered over his birthplace and there were shepherds and angels of heaven there. The local ruler slaughtered thousands of infants to try to eradicate him, but he somehow survived. He performed miracles, healed lepers, the sick, the lame and the blind. He died in his 30's, crucified on a tree or post. His close followers referred to him as "Jezeus" or "Jeseus" which translates as "pure essence". It is said in the writing of the Vedas that he will return on a white horse to judge the dead and fight the "Prince of Evil".
Then in Greece there was Dionysus/Bacchus. He was born to a virgin mother on December 25th; put in a manger and covered in swaddling. He was a teacher who traveled throughout the land performing miracles and healing. He turned water into wine. He rode into town on the back of an ass. (As did Seth from Egypt, funnily enough.) His monikers included the ram or lamb, God of the Vine, God of Gods and King of Kings, Only Begotten Son, bearer of sins, the Redeemer, the Anointed One (translated from the word "Christos") and the Alpha and the Omega. He was hung and crucified on a tree, but rose from the dead on March the 25th. He was worshipped in Jerusalem during the first century BC. A book called Antiquity Unveiled by J.M. Roberts says that "IES, the Phoenician name for Bacchus, offers the origin to Jesus." This chap reckons that IES can be broken up into I (meaning "the One") and ES. (Meaning fire and light.) When these two fragments are amalgamated then, it becomes IES which means "the one light". He then says, "This is none other than the light of St. John's Gospel; and this name is to be found everywhere on Christian altars, both protestant and catholic, thus clearly showing that the Christian religion is but a modification of Oriental sun worship, attributed to Zoroaster. The Christians read the same letters "IHS" in the Greek text as "Jes" and the Roman Catholic priesthood added the terminus "us".
And again, it doesn't finish there. Here is a slightly more complete list of deities and demi-deities, all of whom had similar or identical lives to "Jesus", or were involved in legends around the figure. Apollo, Hercules and Zeus of Greece; Adad and Marduk of Assyria; Buddha Sakia and Indra of India and Tibet; Salivahana of southern India and Bermuda; Osiris and Horus of Egypt; Balder and Frey of Scandinavia; Crie of Chaldea; Zoroaster of Persia; Baal (also known as Bel or Bil) and Taut of Phoenicia; Bali of Afghanistan; Jao of Nepal; Wittoba of Bilingonese; Xamolxis of Thrace; Zoar of the Bonzes; Chu Chulainn of Ireland; Deva Tat, Codom and Sammonocadam of Siam; Alcides of Thebes; Mikado of the Sintoos; Beddru of Japan; Hesus or Eros and Bremrillaham of the Druids; Thor, son of Odin of the Gauls; Cadmus of Greece; Hil and Feta of Mandaites; Gentaut and Quetzalcoatl of Mexico and Central America; Universal Monarch of the Sibyls; Ischy of Formosa; Divine Teacher of Plato; Holy One of Xaca; Fohi, Ieo, Lao-Kium, Chiang-Ti and Tien of China; Ixion and Quirnus of Rome; Prometheus of the Caucasus region; Mohammed or Mahomet of Arabia (only true Prophet, rather than Son); Dahzbog of the Slavs; Jupiter, Jove and Quirinus of Rome; Mithra of India, Persia and Rome.
The worship of the god Mithra pre-dates Christianity by literally millennia, but yet again tells the story that would later become Christianity in acute detail. It is even said that gold, frankincense and myrrh were offered as gifts to him. By the time that the character of Jesus was literally invented, the worship of Mithra and his rites were widespread throughout the Roman Empire. When they founded Christianity in Rome, they used the very symbols and rituals that had been the Mythric myth. Mithra's holy day of the week was Sun-day, because like Jesus he wasn't a real person, but a symbol that represents the sun. Mithra’s followers called this "the Lord's day" and they celebrated their main religious feast on what is now Easter in our calendar. Mythric initiations were held in a cave adorned with the signs of Capricorn and Cancer, being symbols of the winter and summer solstices. He was portrayed as a winged lion (a solar symbol or depiction in a lot of lands) standing within the coils of a spiraling serpent. The lion and serpent are and have been major symbols of power, religion and royalty all across the world, throughout the ages that humans have existed. The Roman church absorbed the Mithra Eucharist into its rituals and supplanted the whole religion in that region. Mithra was also recorded as saying......"He who shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood, so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved." Now that rings a very loud bell to me. The very site that the Vatican stands on was a massive site of Mithra worship. In a way it still is; they just re-named him Jesus.
So Mithra was a symbol for the sun and so was his Christian counterpart, Jesus. (The light of the world.) Jesus walks on water. (So does the sun's reflection if you want to get picky. lol) Jesus started his Father's work in the temple at the age of 12 and started his main ministry at 30. (The sun reaches its daily peak at 12 noon, hence Jesus was first known then, and it enters each zodiacal sign at 30 degrees, hence he starts his ministry at that age.) Jesus turned water into wine. (At the root of nature the sun does the same because it makes the vine grow.) There is soooooo much symbolism in these accounts and not least in the Bible itself; which is almost entirely pure symbolism. There are the fish, (Pisces) and the 12 disciples (sign of the zodiac) to name just two. To understand that last one, look at a picture of Da Vinci's painting "The Last Supper." We are very much talking two levels of knowledge here. In the most basic form, the people worshipped the sun because of its effect on the crop; but the people in the know who were doing the manipulating worshipped it because they understood its power over nature entirely. This is where we start talking about secret societies and conspiracy theories I'm afraid. Leonardo Da Vinci was very high up as an initiate of secret societies as they existed in his day, and he certainly understood what Jesus really was. When you look at that painting, you can see Jesus sitting in the centre and the 12 disciples gathered with 6 on either side of Him. Look even closer and you'll notice that the 12 disciples are gathered in 4 groups of 3 men. (They're actually huddled into these groups pretty obviously, so it isn't too hard to spot if you're looking for it.) The painting is wholly symbolic of the sun (Son) surrounded by the 12 signs of he zodiac! The reason they're gathered in 4 groups of three is because they symbolise the 4 seasons of the year, with three months in each one.
Then let's take the Pisces and fish symbolism even further. Jesus was referred to as the "fish" and the "fisher of men". Perhaps this may have been because at the time that he was alleged to have been born, the Earth was entering the sign of Pisces. Because there is so much symbolism for Jesus and all the other gods associated with similar tales throughout history, we really can't afford to ignore any possible connection with fish-like or amphibious gods, of ancient peoples. The Nommo of the Dogon people and also the Annedoti were both like this. Also, their respective worshipers claimed they came from the star we call Sirius.
And here's another part that makes a nonsense of religion. The most widely used, translated and debated version of the Bible, is the King James version. A survey by the church in the 19th century discovered that the KJB had, wait for it............NEARLY 40,000 TRANSLATION ERRORS!!!!! One of the most noticeable of these errors was the translation of the word "Elohim". This was taken to be the singular "God". However the word for God was "Elo". The h-i-m part pluralises it, which means that the bible should have been referring to "the gods" instead of "God". Big difference. This makes more sense when you try to compare Christianity, Islam and Judaism which all have the same roots, with the much older, multi-theistic, pagan religions. (It also makes "the Son of God" into "the sons of the gods". Perhaps that refers to the Nephilim of the book of Genesis?) Another big-time translation error was the translation of "the end of the world". (Armageddon.) The word for world was mistranslated from the Greek word “aeon" and refers to the end of an age, not the whole world. The "end of the age" refers to the earth astronomical/astrological progression from one sign of the zodiac to the other. We are soon to leave the age of Pisces and enter the Age of Aquarius. I think this progression more or less syncs with the Mayan's prediction of the end of the age/world as they knew it in 2012. Expect big changes soon then! Perhaps this is why people are beginning to discover their spiritual abilities again, instead of living in fear and guilt?
The deeds attributed to Jesus Christ are huge and momentous. Someone like him would have been a serious thorn in the side of whoever held the reigns of power at the time He lived. However, not all seems to gel on this point. Outside of the books of the New Testament, there is no record, sign or account of Jesus Christ anywhere. A brief mention in the words of a Hebrew scholar/historian called Josephus is a rather blatant and obvious attempt at the priesthood trying to cross reference their meal ticket. There are literally scores of writers, historians and philosophers who laid down the history of the Israel/Palestine area at the time Jesus is said to have lived and NOT ONE OF THEM mentions him in so much as a footnote. Philo was alive and kicking through Jesus' whole "life" and wrote extensively about the Judeans. This covered the whole period. The man lived in or near to Jerusalem all throughout the time that Jesus was born of immaculate conception, wowed the elders in the temple, performed miracles and healings, overturned he money lenders tables, drove out demons, nearly gave the local authorities multiple heart attacks, was crucified, returned to life and ascended to heaven. Quite a life. And what does Philo say about this larger than life character, who so dominated his time and place? ABSOLOUTLEY NOTHING!!!!!!! Not a jot! Nada! Naff all! Nowt! Zilch! That's less likely than Mike Tyson turning vegetarian! It is exactly the same with all the very complete Roman records, and the work of all of Philo's prominent contempories. There is no simple answer, just a very blunt one from my perspective. These events never happened, because there was no "Jesus". The man himself is symbolic of the sun, and his deeds and miracles are symbolic of the sun's power because of its importance in pagan religion. And the main reason that the hierarchy of these religions worshipped the sun wasn't because of its effect on the crop, although that is very important, obviously. It was because they understood the power of the sun's electromagnetism. After light and heat, this is the sun's most effective power on our planet. The sun is quite simply, boiling with electromagnetism. The earth itself it crisscrossed with electromagnetic meridians that were known as "ley lines" in the olden days. On top of that, every living cell on the planet is a conductor of electromagnetic energy. Now this is the power that makes that train in France levitate!!!!! Electromagnetism can do that! It can also transfer information via an electromagnetic wave through the air. Military communications do this all the time. (At least EXTREMELY important ones do.) Now if you can picture a human being who is so in tune with this process that his or her body can channel the energy in the same way that a train or transmitter does; you have scientific explanations for telekinesis and telepathy! Not myth! Not science fiction! Not hogwash! FACT! The sun vastly affects the earth's meridian grid all the time. Whenever two or more of these meridians cross each other, you get a vortex point of seriously intense energy. It's also at places like this that you'll find monuments like Stonehenge, Avebury, the Giza plateau and the temple at Ankhor Wat in south east Asia. These things were massive harnessing focuses for the earth's natural powers! So why haven’t we still got them today? You might ask. We have. They're all over the world at points where energy meridians meet. And what's more they're even designed after the fashion of the old esoteric structures, because every shape has a vibration and a wavelength that affects this energy. Egypt is the most ready example to hand. The male energy was represented by an obelisk, symbolic of the penis of Osiris; which was severed by Seth's sword. The female energy was represented by a dome or bowl, symbolic of Isis's womb. Typical male/female energy representations. These symbols were the focused representations of the manipulated energy; the natural energy itself was often depicted as a river. Hence the Egyptians would often build an obelisk on one side of the Nile and a symbol of Isis on the other. Well one of the biggest "vortex points" in Europe is in the British Isles, under the City of London. Now get this......near Oxford, the Thames river is referred to as "the Isis". Coincidence? Possibly. But follow it into the city and then stop when we get to the financial district. On one side of the river you have Canary Wharf, the biggest obelisk in the country and right across the river from it, (a stones throw almost exactly) you have the Millennium Dome. In the space of a few hundred square yards you have the river, the obelisk and the dome. The trinity. The father, mother and the product. Massive symbolism on a scarily modern scale. Why the hell would modern architects be following designs practiced in ancient Egypt? I would suggest the answer is because the people who designed the damn things knew perfectly what they represented. What we're talking about is knowledge on two levels, all over again! And I can feel the "I word" coming up pretty soon.
When I use the term "Elite" I'm not talking about any one group, or society. I'm referring to all of them as a whole. The whole upshot of this thread is that these people knew the power of nature and the cosmos. If it's a power that gives normal, ordinary people the sort of abilities that this forum was created to promote, then it would frighten people who had created religion after religion on pure symbolism, and murdered anyone who didn't take it literally. Some of the people here are religious in the conventional sense. That's fine; I don't decry that at all. But when you get to the bare bones of any of the major religions, you see nothing but hate, murder, racism, damnation and fear. According to the Bible itself, the biggest and most prolific racist and bigot of them all was God Himself! It makes me damn angry to think that someone could twist Divine Spirit into such a horrible misrepresentation. The people here who believe in Jesus, but promote the values of this forum, (patience, tolerance, psychic ability etc) are wonderful people, but don't fit the original mould of religion at all. It was the character called Jesus Himself who said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword!" Conventional religion was a deliberate creation. It was created to imprison humanity and disconnect it from its infinite power and possibility. That's why so many poor souls were murdered in the name of "God". But it's ending, the stranglehold is breaking. The people who use this forum are the proof of that. Humanity as a whole can hear the ticking of some cosmic, spiritual alarm clock that is waking them up. I think personally that is why so many people who think of themselves as Christians (including me about 3 years ago) do not fit the description at all.
Before I sign off from this mammoth thread, here is one more point about Jesus the Son/sun of God/the gods that I would like to make. As is widely accepted, the sun was the focus of ancient religion and as I've said I believe, Jesus is symbolic of it; not a factual person. Well one of the biggest holy days of any pagan calendar was the winter solstice. It was the holiest because it was the end of one solar year and the start of the next. On December 21st-22nd the sun had reached it's nadir in the northern hemisphere. (Where most ancient civilisations were located.) The ancients said it had "died". By even the most rudimentary of observations/calculations it had begun its journey back to life and its full summer strength, by the time 3 days had passed. The pagan/ancients would then have a massive celebration of the sun's rebirth on their calendar’s equivalent of December the 25th. So let's re-cap...........
1/ The sun/Son dies.........
2/ It spends three days dead or in the underworld.......
3/ It then is re-born/born anew........
4/ And the sun's birthday would then have been on.........DECEMBER 25TH!!!!
That is why symbolic deity after symbolic deity was born on that date; in civilisation after civilisation; millennium after millennium. That is why Christianity took all the festival dates from the pagan calendar and that is why the Archbishop of Canterbury dropped a clanger when he said Christmas trees were pagan. Christianity IS pagan!
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The Bible alleges that St. Peter (the "Rock" as he is sometimes known) was the first ever Pontiff (Pope) and thus founded Christianity as more than just as side-sect of Judaism. This would have made it a religion in its own right. However, given the compelling evidence of most biblical characters being fictional (One Babylonian myth tells the story of a chap called Sargon, who was found by a princess, floating in a woven basket on the river: he was subsequently adopted by the royal family!!! Scary eh?) I believe I do know who really created Christianity. This particular religion was largely written by the Levite priesthood, with large chunks of the gospels being written by the Piso family. But there's more to come; as you mentioned one of the alleged deeds of one disciple, I'll go into several personal biographies of these and other, related characters. Before I do though, there's one thing I forgot to mention in the previous lengthy post. The main holy symbol of Christianity is the cross. This is because Jesus was crucified on one, according to the gospels. I would however suggest a different reason. As I've already said, Jesus was, in my opinion, the latest in a long line of solar-related deities, who were symbolic of the power of the solar globe. So if you look at a depiction of the solar system, you'll see that each body in it has a symbol. Earth is a circle with a dot; Neptune is represented by the trident with a slightly crooked stem. The sun is represented by another circle, overlaid with the symbol of....... A CROSS!!!!!! On top of this, look at any depiction, painting or statue of a holy figure. Nine times out of ten, they're depicted with a halo around their heads. However, Good the Father and Jesus the Son/sun both have certain “uniqueness” about their haloes. They are both decorated with......... A CROSS!!!! Now God the Father has nothing to do with the symbol. It's His son who is, because of the crucifixion tale. Yet both are shown with a (solar) cross in their haloes. I would suggest that is because of the sun symbolism in religion. It would also be worth mentioning that many cultures from the Babylonians, to the Phoenicians and the Sumerians depicted the sun as being symbolised by a cross. More than just a coincidence I would suggest. I would say that is the reason the cross features in the crucifixion story. Not because a man called Jesus was really nailed to one; but because of the solar sign in religion. On top of which, something else smells a bit funny about the crucifixion story. Jesus was crucified between two thieves, who were also crucified. This could NOT have happened, because crucifixion wasn't the Roman punishment for thievery. There were lawd alone knows how many different methods of execution in the Roman Empire, but crucifixion and larceny did NOT mix. Anyway, on to specific figures from the gospels.......
Mary(s): Mary is a very ancient name for the goddess who gives birth via a miracle to the saviour Sun God. There are several variants in different languages and cultures. Among them are Mari, Meri, Marratu, Marah and Mariham. In one aspect these names refer to the sea, ("mare" in the Latin root) known as Mer or Mar and "Mary" itself refers to the feminine energy. This was often depicted as a goddess from the sea or waters, the moon or something else. The idea was that the feminine balanced the masculine power of the sun. But they also relate to the Dragon queens of Sumer, Babylon etc. Isis, the Egyptian moon goddess and virgin mother to Horus, was also known as Mother Mary or "Mata Meri" in the original. She was also called "The Queen of Heaven", "Our Lady" and "Mother of God". The goddess El in the Edda texts was also called Mary from time to time. The ancient Hebrews worshipped a god/goddess character called Mari-El, or "Mary-God/god". The "Mother Mary" of Christianity is just another regurgitated figure who was known as El, Isis, Barati, Ishtar, Britannia, Artemis, Semiramis and Diana. The Christian religion like its bed-mate Judaism, sought to remove the feminine principle from the public domain, which caused the tried and tested trinity of father-mother-son to be replaced by father-son-holy ghost. An utterly grotesque suppression of women would follow, justified by the invented words of a mythical St. Paul. "Wives submit to your husbands for the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the Church. Now if the church submits to Christ so should wives submit to their husbands in everything." This is also joined by, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Nice guy. I can imagine him and Germaine Greer having some very friendly chats over a cup of tea. Such words were written in truth, by the initiated priesthood to drip-feed suppression of the female into any culture that it was present in. What is even worse is that this sexist attitude can still be seen today. Ann Widdicombe is one very messed up woman, who is a member of the government. When the CoE decided to allow women vicars, she left and joined the Roman Catholic Church! And this is the sort of person who claims to be intelligent enough to be a part of running our country? Excuse me, I need a bucket. The people in the know (the "Elite" if you will) set out to systematically remove the feminine principle from society. When you bear in mind that it's this energy that lets us (even men) connect with our higher levels of being and our true spirituality, it becomes understandable. Unrestrained male energy is overwhelmingly present in the physical world and without the feminine to balance it; it becomes isolated from its deeper levels of being. Someone being described as a "Macho Man" is typical of this. But behind the scenes, there has been covert worship of this for many a long year. Symbolised in Freemasonry as Isis or the Dragon queens, because the people in the know, really do know the true power of the female energy. Mary Magdalene is another good example. This Mary was a reformed prostitute and is another classic example of goddess symbolism. She is also portrayed as the Great ********** of Babylon. (Or Mari-Anna-Ishtar) A ritual involving a "Sacred Harlot" or high priestess anointing a saviour-king-godling goes back to Sumer and Babylon. If you believe in Atlantis and Lemuria, then symbolism of it is found there too. It was a pagan priestess who pronounced the resurrection of Osiris, Attis, Dionysius and Orpheus, just as Mary Magdalene would go on to be the first person to see (and hug, so he was again depicted as being solid and not spirit) the resurrected Jesus Christ. It's all symbolism from the ancient multi-theistic religions and it was used to create a mythical hero and heroine for a manufactured prison-religion.
The Three Wise Men & the Bright Star: I'm sure that even the non-christians amongst us will know this one. The Bible tells of a bright star marking the place of Christ's birth. Exactly the same story was told in ancient Egypt, using the star Sirius. (This is the brightest star we can see from Earth, from any place, at any time of the year.) Ancient Egyptian religious texts say that when the highly significant constellation of Orion (for them in particular) appeared above the horizon, it presaged the arrival of Sothis or Sirius; the star of Horus and Osiris. (Also associated with Isis in Freemasonry, who refer to it as "The Silver Star".) Further symbolism of the "three wise men" is that the Magi were sun worshippers. Gold, frankincense and myrrh were the traditional gifts by Arabian Magi to the Sun and that's why you have 3 wise men giving these gifts to Mithra and Jesus in different versions of the same myth. The birth of Jesus in a cave (and indeed being laid to rest in one) is one that is repeated through many if not all, of the solar religion myths. The cave represents the "dark place" where the sun goes between the winter solstice and the night of December 24th. This is also symbolic of Jesus going down to the underworld when his physical body was lying in the tomb for 3 days. That's where the whole story comes from.
Being tempted in the Wilderness for 40 Days: This is a VERY common theme for solar gods. A researcher called Albert Churchwood writes that the Egyptians guess-timated it took 40 days after grain was "sown" before it appeared through the soil. This would be a period of fasting and scarcity. So Jesus is depicted as fasting in the wilderness and "Satan" challenges him to turn stones into bread. The battles between the light and the darkness and also when Jesus defeated the darkness is symbolic of the time in the sun's cycle when there is more darkness each day than there is daytime. The 40 years the Israelites were supposed to have spent in the desert is more grain symbolism turned into a manufactured and allegedly "historical" text.
The Words Jesus Spoke: They weren't in any way original for a start. They were repeated from a whole line of similar solar deities. Horus delivered a Sermon on the Mount in Egyptian myth and the version with Jesus in is just an updated version with the same sayings. Some of them even come from earlier texts IN THE SAME BOOK! The books of Enoch for example. Change parts of them into a narrative and you've got the gospels to a tee.
The Crucifixion: Many of these mythical solar deities were crucified to save the sins of the people. It is a very old ritual, predating Christianity by millennia. Jesus on the cross represents the sun at the spring equinox in one way and the dying god, Balder, in another. The crown of thorns is symbolic of a halo, which ancient cultures have always depicted around the heads of their solar deities. (A standing stone in England with a Sumerian/Phoenician depiction of Bel/Bil on it springs to mind.) On top of this, the cross being a religious symbol, was not unique to Christianity at all. It was used thousands of years before 1 BC. Even Jesus said to his disciples "pick up thy cross and walk" before the idea of crucifixion had entered the scene at all. Indeed the idea of a religious man/godling nailed to a cross was so familiar to pagan religions that early Christians rejected the idea! The god from Central America, Quetzalcoatl, was depicted nailed to a cross many times. The cross is symbolic of the equinox when day hours and night hours are equal, and the sun is about to win its victory over the darkness. At the moment Jesus dies, according to the Bible, the land became dark. So it would have done if the son had "died". (As it was symbolically doing.) As for the resurrection after three days, well we've covered that before in great detail. In Persia (long before 1 BC again) there was a ritual when a young man, apparently dead, was restored to life. He was called the Saviour and his sufferings were said to ensure the salvation of the people. The priests would watch the tomb until midnight on the equinox, when they would cry "Rejoice, O sacred initiated! Your god is risen. His death ad suffering have worked your salvation." The same was said in Egypt of Horus and in India of Krishna. Both religions pre-date Christianity by ages. And going back to the two thieves. This is symbolism again. As I've already said thieves weren’t crucified in Rome anyway; they are probably symbolic of Sagittarius and Capricorn, which swap over at the winter solstice. Thus, the sun "dies" between them.
John The Baptist: This guy was a recreation of a dude called Anup, who baptised Horus in Egyptian legend. Like john, Anup lost his head. Indara/Thor of royalty in Sumer was also known as "Bil-The-Baptist" on Sumerian seals and was also known as Ad or Atum baptising the infant crown prince on Egyptian sculptures. Baptism was introduced by the Sumerians, but the Christians. It appears to have originated in the post cataclysmic era in the Phoenician/St. George area of Cappadocia. John the Baptist and his association with water further cements his relationship with the water sign, Aquarius; the sun travels through there to be "baptised" according to myth. The sun enters Aquarius at 30 degrees and Jesus gets dunked by John at 30 years old. The zodiac circle of Greek fame was renamed Crown Of The Circle Of The Holy Apostles (zodiacal representations) by medieval monks and they placed John the Baptist where Aquarius is located. King Arthur and the 12 Knights of the Round Table are also sun and zodiacal symbolism, as is Horus and his 12 followers. In the Julian calendar of the Romans, John the Baptist dies on the 29th of August. In the book Christianity Before Christ by John Jackson, he says "On that day, a specially bright star, representing the head of the constellation of Aquarius, rises while the rest of the body is below the horizon, at exactly the same time as the sun sets in Leo (the kingly star-sign, representing Herod). Thus the latter beheads John, because john is associated with Aquarius, and the horizon cuts off the head of Aquarius!" The reference to the "man carrying the water pitcher" in Luke's Gospel is more Aquarial symbolism, John the Baptist is an exact duplication of Bala-rama, the fore0runner of Krishna. No big surprise.
The 12 Disciples: As David Icke that much vilified and ridiculed author, says in Children Of The Matrix "Is there a universal law that all deities must have 12 disciples or followers?" However much people laugh about the interview with Terry Wogan, that is a very pertinent question. Jesus had 12, so did Buddha, King Arthur(at any one time- there are more than 12 knights named in the legends of course), Mithra too, Dionysus and so did many other symbols of the sun. There were the 12 sons of Jacob, 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 chief gods of the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and Persians. This fixation with 12 develops again and again from solar symbolism; with their disciples and followers representing the months of the year and the signs of the zodiac. Indeed, the Romans openly symbolised the sun as a man's face and the zodiacal signs as his followers. During summer the man's face would be pictured as long haired, representing the strong rays. During the winter, they'd be cut short. Remember the story of Samson? The bloke who was a Nazerite and was strong when his hair was long, but weak when it was short? You know what "Samson" translates into crude English as? The "son of the sun god". For Samson, read Sam-SUN. His story goes wrong when he enters the house of Delilah. This is symbolic of the house of Virgo, which the sun enters as autumn approaches in the northern hemisphere. It ends when he pushes down the twin pillars in the temple. Twin pillars are heavy Freemasonic symbols. Nearly as much so as the "all seeing eye" you can see on a USA $1 bill. Ever wondered why most of the world's economy was strategised from the NYTC? Picture the place in your mind, (as it was before 9/11) and then back off. Notice anything about the design that is relevant? Thought you might. Another example of sacred architecture in modern civilisation. The Canary Wharf/Thames/Millennium Dome is another one I mentioned earlier. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John after whom the gospels are named represent the four cardinal signs of the zodiac. They are also symbolised in cathedrals as a man (Aquarius), an ox (Taurus), a lion (Leo) and an eagle (Scorpio), together referred to as the four creatures of the apocalypse. In a book called Forgery In Christianity, Joseph Wheless says... "The Holy Twelve had no existence in the flesh, but their "cue" being taken from Old Testament legends, they were mere names-dramatis personae-mask of the play-of "tradition", such as Shakespeare and all the playwrights and fiction-writers create for the actors of their plays and works of admitted fiction." In ancient versions of today’s secret societies (which are known to go back at least to Egypt and probably further) the spokesperson for the god was called a PETR. (Pronounced Peter.) This translates as "rock". I can imagine the vicar choking on his tea right now. In the Egyptian "Book Of The Dead", the name of the doorkeeper of heaven is Petra. Careful vicar, you'll spill it all over the carpet.
St. Paul: This seems like a vicious circle. The only single record of the existence of anyone called St. Paul or Saul of Tarsus is within the New Testament. It's the same with Jesus, the same with the lot of them. (Including the leading lights of the Old Testament.) The Roman historian Seneca was the brother of the Achaian proconsul when "Paul" was alleged to have spoken there. But, although Seneca noted many incredibly mundane things (by comparison) he doesn't mention a smegging word about Paul's public crusade. Okay, it's quiz time again. Who am I referring to? He lived in Tarsus (a part of Asia Minor) as a young boy; he traveled to Ephesus where he spoke in front of enormous crowds and performed miracles; before traveling on to Athens and Corinth. Then he went on to Rome, where he was accused of treason, before going on to what is now Spain, then Africa. He then returned to Sicily and Italy. He was then dragged off to Rome and imprisoned; a place from which he heroically escaped. Sounds just like St. Paul right? Nope. This was a story told about a Greek figure called Apollonius of Tyana. (Who oddly enough, was referred to as a "Nazarene" in some accounts.) In the Latin language, his name translated into Apollus and Paulus!! Scary eh? Also the scary journey that Paul had by sea on the way to Rome, was a duplicate of what allegedly happened to a Jewish historian called Josephus. This story has been repeated time than The Towering Inferno.
Phew! I'm sure there's more I'll remember or dig up, as this thread progresses, but for now I'm too tired to try. It's 1 AM and I've been on this post for 3 hours. I would really like some insightful comments from other people here. If you do believe in the Bible story (even if you reject organised religion, as a lot of you do) please tell me what the flaw in my research (and the research of the authors I researched) is. Tell me why you think I'm wrong.
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The "don't question God" or the "because it's in the Bible" responses are much like the "because I said so!" response you get when you're a kid and you ask an adult a problematic or complicated question. It usually means the person saying it is too narrow-minded to think of anything intelligent to say. Either that, or there is literally NOTHING to say, because what they're defending has been demolished by logic. (Or at least what we perceive as logic.) It's a natural and very healthy human instinct to question and probe into things that we don't completely understand, and it would be deeply saddening if your experiences stopped you doing that. From the limited info you gave us, it sounds like your mother is deeply institutionalised into strict, fundamental Christianity. Now I wouldn’t recommend that you deliberately try to force your opinions down her throat, because that will only drive a wedge between the two of you. If the views that you eventually form are too contradictory to hers, then just try to avoid discussion of the subject. One of the biggest pleasures there are in life, are the bonds between us and our close family. I'd hate to think of anyone being ostracized from either of their parents; so try to keep the waters calm. But that doesn't mean you should give your mind away and become an automaton either! You should always question yourself about what you believe and think about spirituality a lot. I think some people would believe from reading what I wrote that I'm saying there is no such thing as spirit or spiritualism. Nothing could be further from the truth! Spiritualism is the biggest power each, individual, human being has. Connection to it is the thing that can free any human, from ANY bond; spiritual or physical. I talked a lot about the power of the sun's electro-magnetism earlier; well the etheric body is PURE electro-magnetism! That's why a living human has an electro-magnetic charge and a corpse doesn't! We know that you can't destroy energy, only convert it into another expression, so where does that energy go when someone dies? Into other planes and dimensions of existence I would suggest.
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Okay 46and2, that's what I found of my previous scribbling in about 20 minutes. There might be more on other threads, but I think it would be all variations on the same theme. All the previous legends of Christ like figures in pagan religions weren't prophecy of something to come, as Omega claimed. They are unequivocally religions set down in the distant past, when they were being worshipped. In other words, they'd already reputedly happened. I don't think there can be any evidence more damning about how we've been robbed of our spiritual power, by being hounded into these prison-religions. As their hold on the people weakened, conventional "science" was brought in to replace them. This "science" doesn't explain human spirituality truly, any more than religion does. It's just another pathetically limited attempt, to rob us of what it is our free-born right to know!
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Re: Re: Hi Jim
Well,
Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed because as stated in the scripture there was a great "outcry" against them. Which would lead me to believe that they were quite an oppressive nation to other people. Any place you look in the Bible where God calls for the destruction of a city it involves the fact that his children are being harmed unjustly. God already knew there were none righteous in either Sodom or Gommorah, he gave Abraham the chance to find them for his (Abrahams) own peace of mind and so he knew to trust him (God).
As for the refrence to the sword a more proper translation would be "division". For the sword is a reference to the division of those whom would and would not believe in him. As for the other stuff I will do some research, form my own opinion, and let you know what I think. I sincerley thank you for the information.
-Peace
Phil
P.S.
And please point out what you construe to be a reference to racism and genetic cleansing because I don't know what your talking about.
Thank you
BigJim said:
Well,
Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed because as stated in the scripture there was a great "outcry" against them. Which would lead me to believe that they were quite an oppressive nation to other people. Any place you look in the Bible where God calls for the destruction of a city it involves the fact that his children are being harmed unjustly. God already knew there were none righteous in either Sodom or Gommorah, he gave Abraham the chance to find them for his (Abrahams) own peace of mind and so he knew to trust him (God).
As for the refrence to the sword a more proper translation would be "division". For the sword is a reference to the division of those whom would and would not believe in him. As for the other stuff I will do some research, form my own opinion, and let you know what I think. I sincerley thank you for the information.
-Peace
Phil
P.S.
And please point out what you construe to be a reference to racism and genetic cleansing because I don't know what your talking about.
Thank you
Admiral Trouser said:
No, I'd say that was a fool, not a wise man. A wise man proportions his beliefs from the evidence that he seeks out for himself and always allows for the distinct possibility that he may be wrong and that his beliefs may change, depending on what he comes across in life.
Note to TMF Staff: A few threads have gotten on to the question of religion and God lately, and I cross-referenced this one because something I wrote was relevant and needed to be linked to. While scanning through it I saw this quote that the Admiral made and felt I should reply to it, even though it is many months old. Not just ressurecting an old thread for the sake of it. 🙂
Re: Re: Re: Hi Jim
I have an apology to make. 46&2 made this request nearly a year ago and I promised to give him the information he requested. I clean forgot about it in the writing of all my other stuff on politics and religion and now he isn't even around here any more. 🙁
When the subject of religion came up again, I backtracked through this thread to cross-reference some information and came up against this. finally after all these months, is the info he asked for. Sorry it was so long in coming.
------------------------------------------------------------
Racism, gentic cleansing, threats etc. What children learn of the bible is very edited and the main racism and biggotry kept under wraps until they're adult and usually too set in their ways to turn their back on the religion. Bible class (or Sunday School as it's known in Britain) contains carefully selected extracts, so no questions are asked. The kids are given the impression that God and his Old Testament henchmen are only out to punish the wicked, vanquish doers of evil and wouldn't harm a hair of an innocent child's head. Excuse me a second...
Ah, that feels better. Better than crying anyway, which is what the normal reaction would be.
The only slaughter of children the un-initiated and questioning get to hear about is the type perpetrated by Herod as he goes in search of the Narzarene Child, killing all males under the age of 2, to rid the land of this potential threat. (This is actually yet another example of the same stories being repeated in different religions and passed off as the only truth. In the Krishna legend, this was done by someone called King Kamsa, who was the uncle of the holy child.)
Here's ome acts of true humanitarianism from the God of Christianity and his skulduggerous chiefs on Earth... (These from the King James Bible.)
Exodus 32.27 "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel... slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour"
Numbers 21.35 "So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left alive."
Numbers 31.7 "... and they slew all the males."
Numbers 31.17 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones"
Deuteronomy 2.34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain."
Deuteronomy 3.6-7 "And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves."
One of the biggest gits of all biblical time, is Moses, the fictional Christian counterpart of Sargon of Babylonian myth.
Deuteronomy 13.15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."
Deuteronomy 20.16-17 "...thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:"
Deuteronomy 32.25 "The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both young man and the virgin, the suckling also and the man of grey hairs."
This homicidal, racist murderer of infants dies in Deuteronomy 34, and is wept over "for 30 days". He must have been charismatic as hell to inspire such sorrow at his passing, after putting Adolf Hitler to shame. Many people might consider comparing Moses to Hitler as being overkill, but it absoloutely isn't. Hitler and Moses had a lot in common. They were both set on getting Lebensraum (living space in other words) for their "chosen people", and didn't give a damn about how many women and children died horribly to get it.
Well, 46&2 asked me to...
Thank you for reading this, anyone who got this far. Please remember, if you approach your religion with love, accepting heart and unconditional love, then I do not aim any insult or accusation at you. I am only upset with those who propogate religion as a means of control and as a supressor of emotions and personal development. Not many, if any, of the people I've discussed religion with on this forum fall into that category.
46and2 said:
I have an apology to make. 46&2 made this request nearly a year ago and I promised to give him the information he requested. I clean forgot about it in the writing of all my other stuff on politics and religion and now he isn't even around here any more. 🙁
When the subject of religion came up again, I backtracked through this thread to cross-reference some information and came up against this. finally after all these months, is the info he asked for. Sorry it was so long in coming.
------------------------------------------------------------
Racism, gentic cleansing, threats etc. What children learn of the bible is very edited and the main racism and biggotry kept under wraps until they're adult and usually too set in their ways to turn their back on the religion. Bible class (or Sunday School as it's known in Britain) contains carefully selected extracts, so no questions are asked. The kids are given the impression that God and his Old Testament henchmen are only out to punish the wicked, vanquish doers of evil and wouldn't harm a hair of an innocent child's head. Excuse me a second...
Ah, that feels better. Better than crying anyway, which is what the normal reaction would be.
The only slaughter of children the un-initiated and questioning get to hear about is the type perpetrated by Herod as he goes in search of the Narzarene Child, killing all males under the age of 2, to rid the land of this potential threat. (This is actually yet another example of the same stories being repeated in different religions and passed off as the only truth. In the Krishna legend, this was done by someone called King Kamsa, who was the uncle of the holy child.)
Here's ome acts of true humanitarianism from the God of Christianity and his skulduggerous chiefs on Earth... (These from the King James Bible.)
Exodus 32.27 "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel... slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour"
Numbers 21.35 "So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left alive."
Numbers 31.7 "... and they slew all the males."
Numbers 31.17 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones"
Deuteronomy 2.34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain."
Deuteronomy 3.6-7 "And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves."
One of the biggest gits of all biblical time, is Moses, the fictional Christian counterpart of Sargon of Babylonian myth.
Deuteronomy 13.15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."
Deuteronomy 20.16-17 "...thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:"
Deuteronomy 32.25 "The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both young man and the virgin, the suckling also and the man of grey hairs."
This homicidal, racist murderer of infants dies in Deuteronomy 34, and is wept over "for 30 days". He must have been charismatic as hell to inspire such sorrow at his passing, after putting Adolf Hitler to shame. Many people might consider comparing Moses to Hitler as being overkill, but it absoloutely isn't. Hitler and Moses had a lot in common. They were both set on getting Lebensraum (living space in other words) for their "chosen people", and didn't give a damn about how many women and children died horribly to get it.
Well, 46&2 asked me to...
and I've now fulfilled his request. What annoys me isn't so much that characters like Moses did this sort of thing, it's that the church refuses to tell "new recruits" this, because it's deemed unnacceptable. No, they wait until they're indoctrinated past the point of original thought. Sad, but then that's been organised religion's recruitment policy for millenia. I'm sure that Christianity is not alone in this tactic. I'm certain that all the others have equally immoral editing in their texts.
Thank you for reading this, anyone who got this far. Please remember, if you approach your religion with love, accepting heart and unconditional love, then I do not aim any insult or accusation at you. I am only upset with those who propogate religion as a means of control and as a supressor of emotions and personal development. Not many, if any, of the people I've discussed religion with on this forum fall into that category.
as much as I'd like to reply to your well thought-out essay, I find its overall tone sarcastic at best and downright belittling at worst. If you're trying to convince people of what you believe or what you don't believe, it is best not to do it in such a manner. The aforementioned threads I posted in were brought about by well-meaning people in search of an honest and open discussion. I don't believe they intended it to turn into this, even if that isn't your intention at heart. Language my friend, be careful how you use it
Admiral Trouser
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Wow. Talk about dredging up stuff I posted years ago.
Hmm...I beleive what you just quoted me on I quoted from a far more learned fellow than myself...err....David Hume, I beleive. Interesting man indeed, and given his own philisophical outlooks, I'd imagine that he'd have implicitely implied in that statement that one must always be aware that what we beleive to be True now may indeed be proven False later. He was, after all, an Empiricist, and the greatest among themg them: Whatever you could not discern from what you experienced just wasn't worth thinking about in his opinion.
Judgeing by your last response, Jim, you seem to share alot in common with Hume. If you're up for an interesting read, if a little bit crazy, I suggest you go find a copy of his "Enquiries into Human Knowledge and Understanding", I think you'd find it fairly intrigueing 🙂
AT
Hmm...I beleive what you just quoted me on I quoted from a far more learned fellow than myself...err....David Hume, I beleive. Interesting man indeed, and given his own philisophical outlooks, I'd imagine that he'd have implicitely implied in that statement that one must always be aware that what we beleive to be True now may indeed be proven False later. He was, after all, an Empiricist, and the greatest among themg them: Whatever you could not discern from what you experienced just wasn't worth thinking about in his opinion.
Judgeing by your last response, Jim, you seem to share alot in common with Hume. If you're up for an interesting read, if a little bit crazy, I suggest you go find a copy of his "Enquiries into Human Knowledge and Understanding", I think you'd find it fairly intrigueing 🙂
AT
leafstk said:
I'm sorry you feel disinclined to post. I'm sure the POV you could have put forward would have been thought provoking and educated.
leafstk said:
I don't intend to convince anyone of anything. As far as I'm concerned this is information only, which is neutral. People can use it for positive or negative as they will. If they want to keep believing in their religion, then they will. If they find what I've said about it to be realistic and pertinent, they won't. Which way they make up their mind and what they subsequently do, is none of my business. I have no right to tell anyone what they should think, or what they should do with their lives.
N.B. I defy anyone to come across the biggest, most sadistic, ruthless and heartless scam of all time, and not write about it in a way that conveys outrage. That is certainly what I felt as I continued my research. I bent over backwards at multiple intervals to express that my derision was not directed at individuals like yourself, who follow a faith because their heart is telling them they need to be good. I deliberately and repeatedly did what I could to focus my derision on the manufacturers of the constant misery that have been persecuting mankind, virtually since it's creation. I had hoped that you'd realise that. Sorry if you felt offended, but there is no way I could've gotten across the enormity of what I was saying with prosaic and detached (Or would it be more accurate to say "neutral"?)language. The anger that is in my words is what you might call an "emotional investment" in my writing.
I should also point out that I havn't turned this debate into anything. I originally started this thread on the 24th of September, 2002. It predates all the recent threads by more than a year and a quarter.
